Ravian Bilani

Cultist thinking

Faryar, one of the notable and immediately identifiable characteristics of cultist thinking of all shades is to relish and gloat over the misfortunes of your ideological enemies. This is also a clear as day manifestation of sectarian bigotry and hatred which you are demonstrating with increasing abundance here. It is also an incredibly simplistic view of the world as well as demonstrating a brainwashed mind incapable of seeing shades of grey or complexity. Face it, there is absolutely no difference in your manichaean view of the world and that of the Islamists or the most ultra-rightwing Christian Evangelical fundamentalist or Scientologist. No wonder you people have made common cause in Uganda with these people!

That aside, a truism expressed in the scriptures and writings of all the world's authentic Traditions is that in this material world the wicked prevail and flourish while the innocent and righteous always suffer and are persecuted by the former. There is even a hadith in Islam which outright states, the world is cursed (al-dunya mal'una) and whomsoever holds to the vicissitudes of the world is likewise cursed.

Given this, what you say about Subh-i-Azal from a scriptural and Traditional point of view is exactly the opposite of what you say. If from a Shi'ite point of view the glory and apotheosis of Imam Husayn (as) was his loss and martyrdom at Karbala (or Christ in his crucifixion), then it stands to reason that the usurpation Subh-i-Azal suffered at the hands of his meglomaniacal older brother is a species of the same kind of apotheosis, since the true mark of spiritual veracity in this world is precisely this sort of material loss that you are now relishing and gloating over.

Unfortunately you Baha'is, especially the Haifan Baha'is, are inducted from an early age into inverted and countefeit narratives expressing pure spiritual materialism. You honestly believe that material victory of one sort or another constitutes and is thus analogous to spiritual victory. I have news for you: IT DOES NOT! The opposite is usually the case.

There is a hadith by one of the Imams that the Primal Point commented upon. It states, "Kullu Yawm 'Ashura" (every day is 'ashura, i.e. the tragedy, martyrdom and so apotheosis of Imam Husayn). The direful mischief (fitna-i-saylam) instigated by you Bahais was the 'Ashura of the people of Bayan, and you have the blood of countless Imam Husayns such as Qahir, Siraj, Aba Wahid Muhammad Isfahani and others on your hands. That is the blot and burden your founder will bear for all eternity.

Now the days of this world are fleeting and its outrageous fortunes too many to recount, so let those who say we believe cling to the chemise, the hem of the robe of the All-High, in the horizons (afaq) and in themselves (anfusihim), if, that is, they truly believe!

Believe it or not, I very much look forward to the Day of my own apotheosis, and often pray that it is at the hands of your community whereby it happens!

[Crossposted to USENET]

Faryarm jan

The fact that these people, who claim have left the Bahai religion on their accord, are drawn to it still reveals only how unfulfilled and unhappy they are in their lives. Noone who feels at peace and mentally secure feels the need to score points against their past and revisit it to demonise it. Or worse still try to force their own issues on others who are happy having chosen their way. It does seem rather unhealthy to keep on critisizing something that was not forced on you and is not forced on you. It is like standing outside the house of a past spouse and hurling abuse, stalking, slandering to score points. Finding a way to hurt them. The act of losers. If something did not suit you it does not mean it is bad, or that it does not suit others. This is purely an act of bitterness and insecurity. If anything, you should be flattered that it had and still has such an impact on them. Perhaps they are angry that after all the years of emotional investments they put into this religion it failed to make them happy. And now they want to get even through spreading hate .

Nima Hazini/Wahid Azal and accomplishment of fellow dead leaves

"Badly defending your faith should not come at the cost of negatively losing your sanity...."

One assumes by your statement that deep down below the dark clouds that have have made you lose touch with reality obscuring  your judgment (not to mention other “herbal aids” that you experiment with) you know the Truth and Error of your ways, and can put up a better defense of The Bahai Faith :)

Nima, please let's not discuss "sanity", with you record, and recent consensus on these pages it would not be to your advantage.. as with “stress’-

not to worry it is natural and temporary in life , especially with family and work deadlines.

 Eternal “Stress”, however is a more severe punishment ; what you should be worried about, what can be non religiously described as an eternally repeating nightmare , a state many of the “gentlemen” whose claims and fallacies you quote as proof, are currently enjoying in the hereafter.

Had there been any truth to their claims and  cause, their followers would not have abandoned them; they wold not have perished and forgotten.

I leave you with something that long ago, described to the letter  the utter failure of you and your kind of opposition to the Bahai Faith:

"Numerous and powerful have been the forces that have schemed, both from within and from without, in lands both far and near, to quench its light and abolish its holy name.

Some have apostatized from its principles, and betrayed ignominiously its cause. Others have hurled against it the fiercest anathemas which the embittered leaders of any ecclesiastical institution are able to pronounce. Still others have heaped upon it the afflictions and humiliations which sovereign authority can alone, in the plenitude of its power, inflict.

The utmost its avowed and secret enemies could hope to achieve was to retard its growth and obscure momentarily its purpose. What they actually accomplished was to purge and purify its life, to stir it to still greater depths, to galvanize its soul, to prune its institutions, and cement its unity. A schism, a permanent cleavage in the vast body of its adherents, they could never create.

They who betrayed its cause, its lukewarm and faint-hearted supporters, withered away and dropped as dead leaves, powerless to cloud its radiance or to imperil its structure. Its most implacable adversaries, they who assailed it from without, were hurled from power, and, in the most astonishing fashion, met their doom…

Meanwhile the Faith that had been the object of such monstrous betrayals, and the target for such woeful assaults, was going from strength to strength, was forging ahead, undaunted and undivided by the injuries it had received. In the midst of trials it had inspired its loyal followers with a resolution that no obstacle, however formidable, could undermine. It had lighted in their hearts a faith that no misfortune, however black, could quench. It had infused into their hearts a hope that no force, however determined, could shatter.

Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha’u'llah, p. 195

From the Betrayal and subsequent doom and failure  of "Azal" onwards, is there not enough history of doom and failure to your activities ?

Where are all your role models today?

despite the "woeful assaults", the Bahai Faith has gone  from strength to strength, forging ahead, undaunted..", stiirred to still greater depths, galvanized its soul, pruned its institutions, and cemented its unity.

A lesson perhaps to the congregation of "Dead Leaves"  you are inviting here, powerless to undermine the faith of any one firm in the Covenant of Baha'u'llah and its purpose for today.

May you for the sake of those believers  in your family who love you, learn from history and the error of your ways ...

Faryar

All kidding and the past year aside, I am really beginning to worry about you, bro. Your responses are getting more and more irrational by the message, and you are engaging in some really bad double-speak, which tells me you are under enormous stress and on the verge of coming apart.
Badly defending your faith should not come at the cost of negatively losing your sanity, man, especially for a creed that has lost all its moorings and bearings a long time ago. Believe me, it is not worth it, and you have a family to think about. If you want to lose your sanity for the Lord, there are more positive ways to accomplish that where you actually get to see with your own inner eyes the Light at the end of the tunnel while still alive and in a body = suluk/wayfaring.

Defending your creed badly as you are is not accomplishing anything for your life's ultimate destiny, which is to know your Self in order to know your Lord. Whatever you are saying in your hysterical double-speak here is coming purely from the space of total fear and sectarian hatred.
Let go, bro, let go of your emotional attachment to all this! It is a mirage, a supreme veil separating you from the True Love, Knowledge and Realization of the God-of-your-being!

Go say the Primal Point's prayer from the Persian Bayan to yourself 314 times (to the abjad of qadir/powerful) and come back when your head is clearer,

allahu yakfi 'an  kulli-shay'in wa la yakfi 'an allahi rabbika min shay'in la fi-s-samawat wa la fi'l-ard wa la ma baynahumma innahu kana 'allaman kafiyan qadir!

The Godhead is sufficient over all-things and nothing suffices but the Godhead, Thy Lord, neither in the heavens nor in the earth nor what is between them. Verily It is the All-Knowing, the Sufficient,  the Powerful!

So how is the Baha'i use of

So how is the Baha'i use of a religious covenant different from any past religious use of such covenants to create insularity and exclusivity?

You forget Faryarm that it was seven Bayanis/Babis that were murdered in Akka by twelve Baha'is, not visa versa, and this with your prophet of love Baha's foreknowledge.

All in service to this supposed Baha'i covenant of love.

Cheers

Larry Rowe

Universal kindness, except for ...

The proof of their ideology is the love, devotion and selfless sacrifice of its adherents, in contrast to enemies and Covenant Breakers' faithless, selfish pursuits. 

There is no Fear, there never has been...just caution and protection of the innocent and the unassuming

against the kind who prowl on the internet trying to spread the mentioned Spiritual Disease... 

EXCEPTIONS TO THE LAW OF UNIVERSAL LOVE:
THE TREATMENT OF THOSE WHO CAUSE DOUBT IN THE TRUTH OF THE COVENANT

".......And yet, in other instances, Abdu'l-Baha showed that even though the believers should express universal kindness, there are instances where a different approach must be taken:

Beware! Beware! lest anyone should speak from the authority of his own thoughts or create a new thing out of himself. Beware! Beware! According to the explicit Covenant of Bahá'u'lláh you should care nothing at all for such a person. Bahá'u'lláh shuns such souls. I have expounded these things for you, for the conservation and protection of the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh, in order that you may be informed, lest any souls shall deceive you and lest any souls shall cause suspicion among you. You must love all people, and yet if any souls put you in doubt, you must know that Bahá'u'lláh is severed from them.” (Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 323)

“O ye beloved of the Lord! The Kingdom of God is founded upon equity and justice, and also upon mercy, compassion, and kindness to every living soul. Strive ye then with all your heart to treat compassionately all humankind -- except for those who have some selfish, private motive, or some disease of the soul. Kindness cannot be shown the tyrant, the deceiver, or the thief, because, far from awakening them to the error of their ways, it maketh them to continue in their perversity as before. No matter how much kindliness ye may expend upon the liar, he will but lie the more, for he believeth you to be deceived, while ye understand him but too well, and only remain silent out of your extreme compassion.”
(Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, #138, p. 158)

And again, here:

“My purpose is to explain to you that it is your duty to guard the religion of God so that none shall be able to assail it outwardly or inwardly. If you find harmful teachings are being set forth by some individual, no matter who that individual be, even though he should be my own son, know, verily, that I am completely severed from him. If anyone speaks against the Covenant, even though he should be my son, know that I am opposed to him. Those who speak falsehoods, who covet worldly things and seek to accumulate the riches of this earth are not of me. But when you find a person living up to the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh, following the precepts of the Hidden Words, know that he belongs to Bahá'u'lláh; and, verily, I proclaim that he is of me. If, on the other hand, you see anyone whose deeds and conduct are contrary to and not in conformity with the good pleasure of the Blessed Perfection and against the spirit of the Hidden Words, let that be your standard and criterion of judgment against him, for know that I am altogether severed from him no matter who he may be. This is the truth.”

(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 455-456) 

Hello Faryarm, So even

Hello Faryarm,

So even though you ask me to: "stop creating division", you openly admit that the very covenant of your faith has division as it's very modus operendi, as it's very design and purpose for it's existance.

Whatever happened to Baha'u'llah's removal of such past religious division?:

In this way His Holiness Bahá'u'lláh expressed the oneness of humankind whereas in all religious teachings of the past, the human world has been represented as divided into two parts, one known as the people of the Book of God or the pure tree and the other the people of infidelity and error or the evil tree. The former were considered as belonging to the faithful and the others to the hosts of the irreligious and infidel; one part of humanity the recipients of divine mercy and the other the object of the wrath of their Creator.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 246)

So did Mirza Husayn Ali ( Alias Baha'u'llah) actually remove this past religious practice for all of humanity? Or just for everyone else besides himself. Did he nullify and abolish the practice of shunning for all of humanity, excepting himself, his son Abbas Effendi, his great grandson Shoghi Effendi, and the UHJ?

You can't have your cake and eat it Faryarm. Either you believe in humanities oneness and you live in a manner befitting that oneness or else you quite obviously do not believe in humanities oneness. As soon as exceptions are made to oneness it is no long true oneness.

The Baha'i covenant is a crude tool used to create and inforce division, a bludgeon used to threaten and coerce. If you are truly interested in stopping division Faryarm, stop supporting that which creates it.

Cheers

Larry Rowe

Those fearing the seeds of doubt

The Business of "Sowing seeds of Doubt"

The Business of "Sowing seeds of Doubt" , The Prcatices of Covenant Breakers

"Ever since the opposition of the younger brother of Bahá’u'lláh, Mirza Yahya,(Azal)  the poison of Covenant-breaking, which is opposition to the Centre of the Covenant, entered the(Bahai)  Faith and remained.

It is difficult for those who have neither experienced what this disease is, nor devoted any consideration to the subject, to grasp the reality of the power for destruction it possesses. All the members of the family of Bahá’u'lláh grew up in the shadow of Covenant-breaking. The storms, separations, reconciliations, final sundering of ties, which are involved when a close, distinguished and often dear relative is dying spiritually of a spiritual disease, are inconceivable to one who has not experienced them. The weakness of the human heart, which so often attaches itself to an unworthy object, the weakness of the human mind, prone to conceit and self-assurance in personal opinions, involve people in a welter of emotions that blind their judgment and lead them far astray. 

 The Priceless Pearl, p. 121 

"To maintain the unity and incorruptibility of the (Bahai) Faith, the Covenant of Bahá’u'lláh established a Centre of authority to which all are to turn. This Centre has been, successively, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Who is uniquely the Centre of the Covenant; Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Faith; and the Universal House of Justice, which is the apex of its Administrative Order. A Bahá’í who turns against and defies this Centre breaks the Covenant and, if he is adamant in his disobedience, is expelled from the Faith as a Covenant-breaker.

Footnote in Messages of the Universal House of Justice 1963 to 1986, p. 16 

Sympathies of a crocodile or is Ravian Bilani actually JJ??

It was posted once on Iranian.Com and the moderators took it down arguing it wasn't original content by me. But seeing how the author of the article is now here on Iranian.Com and posting on this very thread, are you going to argue that Larry Rowe is another one of my aliases or that Ravian Bilani is Larry Rowe?

But consider this: maybe Ravian Bilani is actually an alias of JJ's himself :)

The article was likewise posted on USENET by the  original author, Larry Rowe,  but don't let your selective googling get in the way of a good sleight of hand playing fast and loose  with the truth as is your usual predilection:

//groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/b9cd6c3e59fcfad/90b80203c8f700ff?q=#90b80203c8f700ff

Sorry, Your Motives are Selfish and Cause Dissention.

What does the term “Covenant-breaking” mean?

Every Bahá’í is at liberty, nay is urged, to freely express his opinion and his understanding of the Teachings, but all this is in a totally different category from that of a Bahá’í who opposes the clear Teachings of Bahá’u'lláh or who asserts his own opinion as an authoritative and correct interpretation of the teachings, and attacks or opposes the very Institutions which Bahá’u'lláh has created to protect His Covenant. When a person declares his acceptance of Bahá’u'lláh as a Manifestation of God he becomes a party to the Covenant and accepts the totality of His Revelation. If he then turns round and attacks Bahá’u'lláh or the Central Institution of the Faith he violates the Covenant. If this happens every effort is made to help that person to see the illogicality and error of his actions, but if he persists he must, in accordance with the instructions of Bahá’u'lláh Himself, be shunned as a Covenant-breaker.
Letter from the Universal House of Justice, dated March 23, 1975, Developing Distinctive Baha’i Communities

Faryarm

Apparently this article was previously posted several times in IC and removed everal times by moderators . What can I say, except that you have my sympathy.

//groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.iranian/browse_thread/thread/3772c97f15e836ae

Howdy Faryarm, Actually

Howdy Faryarm,

Actually that is the whole point of my post. To encourage Baha'is to cease creating division through dehumanizing their fellow human beings by labeling them as spiritual lepers because their chosen religious interpretations are diverse from their own, because they have a different interpretation of what the legitimate Baha'i covenant is.

I'm all for the oneness of humanity Faryam as well as the oneness of human spirituality and equity for all. My only motive is to make Baha'is aware of what the root cause and source of their contradictory and hypocritical religious beliefs and practices is.

When you have words such as these come out of your mouth:

Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 95)

... you had better be willing to show through the way you conduct your own life that such words are meaningful and not empty, just so much hot air.

That Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha', Shoghi Effendi and today the Haifan UHJ were/are such avid shunners is evidence of a disconnect between words and deads, evidence of dysfunction.

I'm simply pointing out that Baha'is will need to show through their religious practices that they actually believe that humanity is one, that they actually believe that the antiquated and obsolete religious practice of shunning has been: "nullified and abolished".

The best way of not creating division is to abandon those religious teachings and practices which advocate such division.

Cheers

Larry Rowe

Division making is all yours; and the division made all yours

//bahaicultfaq.blogspot.com/

"O phlebotomist of the Divine Unity! Throb like the artery in the body of the Contingent World, and drink of the blood of the Block of Heedlessness for that he turned aside from the aspect of thy Lord the Merciful!" -- Baha'u'llah

Stop trying to create divison...

Stop trying to create divison...