Sketches of an Iranian American

Holly

Yes it is and even more...

Stigma

Most Iranian women are particular when it comes to divorced men, less so with the degree of their Westernization, more so if they're close to their immediate family, more so if the man is getting up there in age, and much more so if there are kids involved.  But I doubt they consider it a "lakeh", a stain.  It's the baggage they do not want.  Perhaps you wouldn't want such a woman anyway as such a value system reflects other issues that you might have difficulty with as well.  You already consider your previous experience valuable in your next relationship, as you should, so that's the right outlook. 

As for the second question, I wouldn't worry about that much.  With the right woman you won't feel distanced from your heritage which is not a singular one.  You might already have friends whose non-Iranian spouses have embraced the Iranian culture without giving up their own, and isn't that what you are already doing as well.  

I know there was no question 3, but in many divorces there is tremendous emotional pain involved even after relatively empty marriages.  The effects linger beyond the end of the legal part and take some time to settle down. Some of the worst relationships that I have seen started in the midst of a divorce which badly clouds one's judgment and drives one into someone's arms out of need.  If yours was anything like that it is important to embrace many friendships but approach relationships cautiously until some degree of healing.  In these cases expression and opening up become one’s best ally as unexpressed bad feelings turn poisonous. 

Hey Omid jan

I give credit where credit is due...unlike Rendd who tries keh sareh mano ba rangeh soorati shireh bemaleh!

Rendd - It just dawned on me...is your name Rendd in Farsi as in sly?? ;)

LOL

HollyUSA - Those four points are priceless. Thanks for the acknowledgement in part 4). Hahaha. 

Yours,

Omid

Holly,

Well, the good news is that now they paint the blue ones over with pink. However, I don't know about women but if they leave a man to decide to have his last meal or to rome in the rose garden, with almost no exception he will chose to roam in the roses even if someone has to push his wheelchair. :O)

LOL Silly!

1) my attributed percentage to completeness was so low that it doesn't qualify it as a factor for me

2) The lack of longevity of Sex Appeal can not be cured by the blue pill

3) they don't MAKE the blue pill for women. As usual all the research money goes into fixing the ills of the male population first :P

4) Omid is too young to need to worry about the blue pill too (which leads me to ask WHO ARE YOU TALKING TO??? lol)

here you go...

so now there are three factors, completeness, partnership and the blue pill...:O)

Rendd

I think what we are both saying boils down to the same thing but with a variation in percentages of the same contributing factors!

And yes, the part sex appeal plays in the success of a relationship starts off lasting about 5 minutes and as you get older it lessens to about a minute and a half. I'm just hoping it doesn't keep moving down to a negative factor lol

Holly,

I don't believe people get married only because they want to be complete, the partnership factor is there but it is often overshadowed by the urge of getting complete quicker. Nevertheless when the urge is gone what is left is partnership and compatibility that was abandoned at the beginning.

However we can blame half of the divorce on the false urge of getting complete but the other half is partnership that turns into competition.

My point is, there are pros and cons for both attributes, none alone works, a mysterious combination of both might work.

The sex appeal is a very good starter but what the engine runs on for a long trip is sharing the same outlooks which is not as quantitative as partnership. That's my humble opinion. 

Rendd

It may be the feeling of existential incompleteness that drives most to marriage. But that doesn't make it the correct reason for marrying. People often don't find that sense of completeness after marriage because it is simply not there to be found! To be able to make a partnership successful, both sides must be happy and content within themselves and as individuals. What an ideal partnership affords you is just an enhanced version of a complete life (that's if you take out the kids factor making marriage a necessity in most cases).

Omid jan,

Since we as humans are not perfect and lack to see the perfect picture, a person with a different experience and culture can give us a hint of what else can be out there. What do we want to call it? Getting more complete? Or growing? Aren't these just the definitions? What's the guarantee that you two are not going to grow apart?

omid B jan

great blog and i think all the advice you have been given here have been on target.   

I don't know how old you are and if you have any kids or would like to have any.  I think marriage is greatly overrated and it is only to produce and rear kids. If no kids are involved then why marry? why you want to have the headache (or give a headache to someone else.) have a girl friend but live and be independent. that to me is priceless. 

HollyUSA, Rendd

HollyUSA - I'm not going to disclose my age, but suffice it to say that I have absolutely no need to rush. You're right about several things, and one of them is the need for me to develop before I start another relationship.

Rendd - Wow. You really brought your intellect to bear on the subject. Compatibility really is at the heart of the matter. Regarding your other point: I have such a hard time figuring out how a partner in marriage is supposed to join the self. I know it seems less healthy to let them complete you... but contrariwise, I have known too many people who are incapable of real intimacy and committment because they feel hindered by the involvement required by love. It's not black and white, but I share your inclination against "completing" each other.

Yours,

Omid

Holly,

I agree with you to some extend but what drives people to get married in the first place? Isn't it the existential incompleteness that member of opposite sex carry?

Rendd

"Should your wife be your partner or the other half that completes you?"

Good point. In my viw, one should never look to another person to complete them!  We are all in a sense complete in and of ourselves (or should be!) and it is always important to grow. Some of the growing can be done together, but to look for a sense of 'completion' ouside of ourselves I think is unhealthy.

Compatibility

Compatibility is the key but how do you define it? How do you guard
it from the passage of time?  A non-Iranian wife can be as interested in Iranian culture as an Iranian wife estranged from it.

It all depends on how you two look at the marriage. Should your wife be your partner or the other half that completes you? Because depending on which way you are looking at it, the partnership can easily slip into a competition and the-other-half idea to incompatibility.

I recommend, you take out the nationality factor and find a person who shares with you the same outlook about life. The stigma question then will be solved easily because any prejudice also comes from the outlook.

It is good that you are finding yourself, since it helps you to form your outlook better. 

Omid

I don't know how old you are and what if any kind of time constraint you feel you are under for having kids etc. This is very personal advice and I apologize for taking the liberty (especially since I just spoke against giving unsolicited personal advice on another blog lol) BUT do not jump into another marriage. If you gave in too soon before and under completely unsuitable circumstances then there is a good chance that you have not completely thought through what marriage is and what factors you need to be looking for in a person (or what you want and don't want for that matter!) This is very common and is a big reason why there are so many divorces.

Again, my apologies for giving unsolicited personal advice (well I guess you sort of solicited by posting the blog :)

To HollyUSA

Wow. You really drive this lesson home for me: it is a grave mistake. I have to admit that I was completely ignorant before I hopped aboard my marriage. The namzadi started so fast and the committment set in so early. 

I am encouraged that you think the prejudices depend more on baggage than they do on superficial status. I pray this is true!

Yours,

Omid

Interesting Blog

So here are my general thoughts and then I'll give you my answers to your specific questions: I think it is a GRAVE mistake for those of us who have lived abroad for many many years to marry people from Iran (and vice versa). Of course there are exceptions, but very few. This is definitely not to say that one side is 'better' than the other, just that shared culture, values, the way we view life and the world are very important in any relationship and the lack of same pose tremendous challenges. I have yet to see one of these marriages succeed. Of about a dozen or socouples I have known of, only one remains married past the 5 year point and they are both miserable!

Q1) I doubt if Iranian women would think of men like you as 'lakkeh dar' although as Ali stated, the reverse is often true, sadly.

That being said, I've seen divorced men and women who have huge amounts of baggage from their divorce and harbor ill feelings toward the opposite sex. I think that is the biggest 'lakkeh' one should look out for. You don't sound like you are walking away with that sort of baggage though. I think it is also easier on the next marriage if their are no kids from the first. Not sure what your case is.

Q2) I don't think not being married to another Iranian necessarily serves to 'dilute' your culture. Afterall, you would still have friends and family and a whole community you'd likely stay involved with to reinforce that culture. I also think that some parts of our culture can do well with a little dilution :) 

To Ali's point about there being prejudice against people who never married, I think that is also true. I wpuld always ask why someone never married as well ask why they divorced. I think both are legitimate questions if one is considering sharing a life or even entering a relationship.

.......

Thank you for your bold blog! I don't remember reading a blog like this on IC.... I know an Iranian guy in real life that he is or has divorced his Iranian wife.....he told me that he will not date (or marry) Iranian again 'cause his 1st marriage did not work....he prefers non-Iranian Asian....he asked me to hook him up with a friend of mine...unfortunately, the girl turned him down....I won't use the word "stigma" on divorced people, I think we should respect everyone.....there are complicated reasons behind divorce.....it is hard to say who is wrong or who is right, it comes down to if the couple is compatible or not........good luck with everything! Thank you for your sincere blog! May God bless you!!

Delaram Banafsheh (Yolanda)

"Cactus in the Desert"

Interesting Point, Ali

I would be relieved if my future partner had similar life experiences to my own. That saves a lot of explanation. Someone who has never lived through a divorce successfully may be skeptical about its value.

But you raise an interesting point about equality. I am 100% sure that I'll have an easier time than a divorced woman, just because of society's illnesses. I know someone in my family (a female in Iran) who was divorced and could only manage to find an elderly husband. And her new husband is German Iranian. That's not a backward Iranian atmosphere, either! That's Germany!

Yours,

Omid

You tell me...

Great question, and I hope someone some day would conduct a survey on that.

Let me ask you this:

What if you meet a woman, well into her 30's? What would put her in a better standing with you- all things being equal- her being divorced, once, or her not ever having been married?

Which version, comes across as a better candidate for a possible future marriage?

There is certainly a prejudice against divorced people, but there is also a prejudice against people who were never married. People wonder why she never married.

I just don't know who has it worse, men or women.