وبلاگ افشاگر حقیقت

AO: Looks like you missed the meaning of my response

by many miles.

Your insinuation that US has many nuclear warhead and can destroy Iran at a moment notice and at will reminded me of the many super powers in the world (i.e gangizkhan and Hitler) who used their super military power to destroy other civilizations at a moment notice and at will unjustly and criminally.  Ultimately, they end up in the gorestan history.

There is absolutely no denying that US can destroy Iran many times over, but it will only bring itself to the ultimate destruction one step closer in that process.

Mehrdad

Fesenjoon & Mehrdad

Fesenjon - use this email: aobserver1@gmail.com.  Send me the cartoon, and I'll send you back a draft of the blog.  You can amend it with your thoughts and your input if you wish.  It can be the first jointly written blog by two bloggers on IC!! 

Mehrdad:   Your analogy is wrong.  Hitler and G. Khan didn't have nukes.  Trust me, things would have been much different if Hitler had gotten his hands on a couple of nukes.  He would have threatened to drop, or actually dropped one on NY City, London and Moscow each and there would have been a quick "peace" deal.  The Nazis would have still been around in that case.  A better analogy is Japan's case.  Remember all their noise and belligerence?  Remember what we did to them?  Remember what happened after that?  That's right.  They came on that ship and and signed an unconditional surrender agreement.  And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch about the U.S. using nukes, what the Japanese got was their fault.  They knew that the U.S. was a nuclear power.  They still attacked the U.S. on its soil.  They got responded to.  It's called being responsible for your actions.    

AO

the real question is whether you can respect yourself. the rest is for show...

Responses4

bavafa,

When ChangisKhan's army came to Iran, nothing was left but ashes.

Kharmagas,

Good luck with that. Like I told VPK, we'll be taking the wish of a reformed free Iran to the grave. A rapist can never be reformed. He must be put away.

NP,

So I take it that u dont want to have the rapist convicted because of your suspuicion of a flawed court?

AO

I have the caricature ready. I cant find your contact info. Give me some anonymous email, and Ill send u the image.

Gangizkhan and Hitler

Were also enormously powerful for their time, arguably more powerful then US is now in relative terms, yet we know the faith of both and where they end up.  The moral of story is if you only relay or count on your military force, then should not be surprised when you end up in the same place as the other two. 

Mehrdad

AO Jaan

I agree about the military part. I have said so to NP before. The military power of America is unrivaled. In a head to head war with IR USA will gain immediate air superiority. It could overrun Iran in the time it takes the tanks to drive.

But the economic problems are not temporary. Problems are structural. How do you propose American workers compete with China or India. Or Latin America. It is not possible to compete when the other guy takes 1/10 of your pay. 

For high tech I am still preferring Americans since their output is higher. But for manufacturing China has the edge. In fact even for programming China is really attractive.The problem is they will steal the intellectual property after they write it :-) But those problems will resolve in time. So in fact time is not on America's side.

As for social stuff America is rapidly becoming a two language nation. That is bad news for its survival. Before long the Spanish speaking regions are going to have increasing demands. They may not feel the same loyalty to a united America. Not to mention the Red-Blue state thing is a danger to American unity. I was at a party last year. Right after Obama got elected. I was watching a discussion between two activists. They so much hated each other that I had to remind them they are both Americans. They rather deal with me an Iranian than each other.

Texas is making noises about secession. North East is getting sick of sending its tax dollars to the South and getting the finger in return. This ain't good my friend. Instead of boasting about guns Americans need to address these head-on. Without a national unity the guns will do no good. Many people I know rather secede than live under rule by the other side. 

VPK

Thanks VPK Jaan - BUT

America's econmic problems are temporary.  It's an event that will pass.  We've been through worst.  We came out of the Great Depression and won WWII.  

The bottom line is that this world is all about military power and influence. We can dream about flower power and peace and getting along all we want, but the real world is all about who has the biggest guns. And right now, and for centuries to come, the U.S. is the top dog with the biggest guns.  And don't worry about us running out of resources.  Others will give us what we need because they respect our power.  That's how the real world works. It's always been like this, and it will always remain so.  

AO Jan

I am your friend and over 90 % of the stuff I agree with you. America is the most powerful military in the world. It can take the next two powers at once and not even break a sweat. Specially if draft is reinstated. 

The problems in America are economic and social. I seriously doubt America will survive the next century if these problem are not fixed. The first thing is the outsourcing of jobs. There are simply not enough high paying jobs. 

The rest of the world is getting an increasingly educated work force. They take far less money than Americans. I know because I am in the high tech business. When I look at where to hire developers America is really expensive. So America is in danger of losing its middle class.

Do you know how much it costs to run an Aircraft Carrier task force? Before long those shiny submarines will be dry-docked for lack of money. Remember the Soviet Union did not go becuase of lack of military power.  

Simorgh Jan

I agree that IR has to go and sooner the better: we agree. Plus I really agree with yourt arguments over territory. My one request is this:

We should get Obama to publicly declare Iranian territorial integrity. Do you agree with this? Specially if USA were to take military action. I would behoove it to  guarantee this before hand. It will stop the worries about breakup. That is the one ace IR has right now. Let us take that away from them. Please read my blog on this subject today. I want to get all the Iranian diaspora behind this. It should be very non controversial to us all.

Kharmagas

If you have nothing sensible to say then do what flys do best. It just happens the Islamic Republic is full of turds so they might be useful to you. Make good use of them before the regime changes.

You know what sucks for you Niloufar Jaan?

These:

 //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_class_submarine

Ohio class submarines.  We have 14 of those (count them-14).  Each one carries 24  Trident II SLBM's (those are really bad ass nuclear missiles) and each of those missiles have multiple warheads.  We also have 4 other subs which can carry 154 cruise missiles with nuclear warheads.  

Make a long story short: you can run, but you can't hide.  One of those babies can turn the whole planet--let alone South Lebanon, where you'll be hiding--into a bowl of dust.  

And you know what's even worst for you?  We'll be around for a few more centuries.  And China and India can kiss our rear ends, because compared to our technology, they are still in the bronze age.   I do have to say though, that both cultures have good vegan dishes.  I know this because their people risk life and limb to reach our shores and work in our restaurants.   

So, take a chill pill and respect our power. 

When you learn how to fly Simorgh jaan!

"NOTHING SHORT OF REGIME CHANGE WILL DO.  We can deal with separatists later." 

When you learn how to fly with your wings Simorgh jaan!?

Fesenjoon, VPK

I am with you, buddy. The only thing which is not negotiable is for the Islamic Republic to exist. The talk of reform and passive disobedience have been tested and failed. The Iranian students and iranian opposition in the country have been terrorised into submission and the middle class/bazaris are unwilling to strike for their fellow Iranians and the country which has disinegrated into an Islamic hell hole. This regime has been intransigent on every matter and it beggers belief that after what happened in 2009 they still have faith in the Islamic political system to bring about changes. People who advocate cooperation and reproachment with the regime are charlatans of the highest order or brzenly naive. How many deaths, calmpdowns, rapes and imprisonments will it take to convince you that they are not interested in your western liberalism, declarations of human righrs and equality?

I advocate military action to liberate Iran. There will challenges. There will be casualities. But there is no other solution left: Either take a calculated risk or put up with more of the same as the Islamists kill Iranians on an industrial scale, bulldoze Persepolis and Passargard, until all the national wealth and natural resources are gobbled up and syphoned off by Rafsanjani and his family or given wholesale to Palestinians and Lebanese. 

Let us entertain the fears of Iran's territory being comproised. 

Despite initial fear Iraq did not disitengrate into ethnic enclaves and you can only hope this does not happen to Iran. There will always be Baluch, Azari, Kurdish nut cases who want the country to split into pieces but they are a  loud and violent minority. This is why they resort to terror.  They have and never will be able to realise their ludicrous separatist claims firstly because they do not have poular support and they still depend on the central government in Iran to provide economic and material sustenance for its existence. Do you believe that impoverished Pakistan or developing ex-svoiet rrepublic of Azarbaijan can simply annex a new population just like that? They wouldn't even have UN support to recognise their new independent states. 

NOTHING SHORT OF REGIME CHANGE WILL DO.  We can deal with separatists later.  

It is all Niloufar's fault! (to VPK)

Niloufar writes these mostly reasonable albeit less than friendly to U.S articles....., we Iranian Americans should retaliate by writing some anti British blogs!

kaaaaar , kaaaaaaare Engelissass!

America

The issue I see is that some of us are total believers in America. I see America  as a nation of humans. It is neither good nor bad. It has both qualities. It is most definitely not out to do the best for anyone: including herself. 

I am not happy with American power in the region until they show some good will. At the minimum they should PUBLICLY guarantee territorial integrity of Iran. Please see:

//iranian.com/main/blog/veiled-prophet-kh...

To me that is a non negotiable make it or break it deal. If they do  it then I will consider America a potential ally. If not then I view them with suspicion. Iranians who do not support our national integrity are in the same boat as MKO from my point of view. 

Frankly I am sick of watching people wave the American flag but offer no solutions.

fesenjoon

if you "support the sentencing of an established rapist", you need the following ingredients as prerequisites before any action is taken:

- a set of just laws established through a legitimate process;

- a trusted judiciary;

- a powerful, trusted police force; and

- fair treatment of all concerned, including the accused.

in the asbsence of such, you will need a large enough majority of the people involved to have enough power and determination to take matters into their own hands without fearing the consequences for themselves or their families when confronting a 'rapist' as powerful as the 'iri'.

how do you propose the 'sentencing' of the iri will be carried out in the current context? based on which laws? where is the judiciary? where is the police force? where is their legitimacy? if we don't need these 'external' factors, then where is the popular uprising that is needed?

beyond expressions of emotions, who or what has the legitimacy, power or the determination to carry out this sentence on iri?

america is quite a nasty piece of a rapist in global affairs. you want the biggest rapist around to act as judge and jury on iran?

if none of the above is practical - and i think we both agree that they are impractical - then why approach the whole question in this impractical manner? why not talk about more realistic solutions such as reforms from within?

when all is said and done, it wasn't the dissatisfacton of westerners or easterners that removed the shah. it was a critical mass of the people of iran acting inside iran. that remains the only reasonable option today too. unless of course we take events in iraq and afghanistan over the past decade as somewhow desirable for iran...

peace

Overthrow of IRI?

yes indeed Fessen. I only support gradual reform. Overthrow of IRI will not get ride of rape, and many other forms of injustice in Iran, if anything at this juncture it'll make the matters worse. I believe overthrow of IRI is not even in the interest of U.S of A or Israel, I am therefor covered as far as my American patriotism goes.

Kharmagas

Kharmagas, I warned u this would be a rated R movie. U shouldnt have watched. 

VPK seems to only support the overthrow of IRI as long as no military force is ever used. Hes against surgical strikes, hes against regime change, hes against sanctions.

It's like me saying: I support the sentencing of an established rapist, as long as he isnt harmed or arrested.

And youre saying: I want the rapist to gradually reform, change his ways, and learn to be a good person.

fesenjoon:

"American patriotism" or not, if any country be it US or otherwise is to come and invade my mother land, I will hope and wish to defend against that.  Likewise I will do the same if another country, be it Iran or otherwise comes and invade US, I will hope and wish do defend against that  just as well.  I do not go by what you consider patriotism but what my conscience tells me.  And I will hope one day to fight against IRI, but only on the side and along the Iranian people and not in a foreign uniform as I totally believe the foreign uniformed is not to protect Iranians interest but only their own.

VPK:  None of us are ever perfect or have done ALL we could have.  But it is important that now that we are more mature and knowledgeable, at least now live with our conviction and make consciences decisions that we would not live to be ashamed of it later on.  In my opinion and I say this all sincerity, you are a true Iranian and have Iranian’s best interest at heart.

Mehrdad

take it easy with VPK!

Fesseni, take it easy. At least VPK supports overthrow of IRI, I don't even support that, I only support the reform of IRI  (elimination  of VF, freedom of all religious minorities, slow move towards secularism, ...) now can you get mad at me a little ....

VKP

Agha jan, az man narahat nasho, Im just stating the facts, nothing more. But remember this: 

U cant have it both ways, man.

On the one hand you object to me each time I write a blog, telling me: "Fesenjoon! Iran is not the same as IRI!"

But then you consider them one and the same if US wanted to go to war against the current Iranian regime. (u said "I dont want to fight an Iranian soldier". yadeteh? Well excuse me, but who do u think IRI's soldiers raping women in Kahrizak are? Sudanese? Palestinian?)

Your view on IRI and USA is hypocritical dude. U support "anything" to remove IRI from power. Anything but forced conflict.   

That's why IRI will survive another 31 years. They have their US citizen Anti-American supporters.

Responses

Fesenjoon: Dude you think what you want. I have said what I have to say. I oppose IR; I love Iran. I will do whatever it takes to overthrow IR. However I will not commit to a situation that I do not know yet. I keep explaining my position. But you refuse to hear me: "naraved mikeh ahanin dar sang". As best I can tell you have a serious trauma to deal with. I did not inflict it nor am I qualified to deal with it. You are free to say whatever you want in America. If twisting my positions makes you feel better or superior so be it. I am at peace with myself. If you have read my posts you know how much I oppose the IR.

Mehrdad: Thank you for understanding my position. I plan to write a blog to explore options on how to move forward given the current situation. I am in general happy with my life and my position. My one shame and regret is that I was not there to defend Iran against Iraq. I have to live with that. I respect you for doing what I failed to do.

VPK

heh, eeno bash

No Bavafa.

Siding with the armed forces of IRI against the armed forces of USA is not American patriotism. That's just Bullshit. It's actually treason. 

Eventually, youll have to choose one side or the other.

VPK:

I think you are making your position very clear, considering this insensible and hypothetical type questioning and I respect you for the position you are taking and I am with you all the way.   I believe a true patriot and conscience person will never commit himself to engage and be part of a war when he/she does not know any thing about that war and its morality or why. 

We need to keep in mind the question is if you are willing to take arms against Iran and not IRI.  Likewise it is not clear on behalf of whom you are asked to take arms… is it  in defense of Iranian people or on behalf of some foreign entity.

But I am still waiting for the promised blog and hope that has more clarity in it then offered here.  And that the author/coauthor makes their  position on record as they expect others to do so.

Mehrdad

VPK, youre playing games

Let me try again. This is what we're talking about:

Me: Iranian-Americans arent truthful. They live here as guests, not as true citizens. They live here, and at the same time hate America.

U: Nope. I am a citizen. I have friends, support the constitution, etc.

Me: Then why do u keep trying to justify hating US armed forces and its political system? I mean, you focus on Anti-Americanism more than you do on Iran's current fiasco.

U: Well, other Americans do it too. It's a form of patriotism (!). It's my right.

Me: Fine. Tell me this, whose side would u be on if it comes down to a war?

U: I wont support any war against Iran, because America isnt any better.

Me: baba joon, forget about America. Would u be willing to fight against the army of IRI in battle?

U: No. Would u support jundullah against IRI?

Me: what???! Youre avoiding my question. Jundullah isnt related. I want to determine whether or not youre willing to take up arms against Iran to overthrow it.

U: Not if it's America that's doing it.

Me: Why?

U: Im not fighting a hamvatan, and America is no better. 

So in essence VPK, youre actually siding with IRI, because your answer on whether or not an established rapist should be sentenced by court rests on who the court is. Condeming the rapist takes a backseat to the legitimacy of the court, in your view. In essence, u think USA is worse than IRI, so removing IRI by force is wrong. I think it's the opposite.

Forget about USA.

Forget about USA. Assume 5 years from now, the US doesnt exist (and it's busy with its own domestic turmoil). Now: Is fighting a war against the current Islamic Republic of Iran justified? Would u support it?

Yes, fighting against IR is justified. However I would hope the other side is better than what we got. What if there is a Taliban led uprising against IR; would you support that. What if the "new" opposition wants to kill all non-Muslims and ban education  for women? Do you get my point now? The other side must be better than the one we overthrow. If not we are going to be as badly off as we are now. I don't want to support one Islamic hell over another Islamic hell for instance.

Would you support Jundallah against IR? I am not avoiding the question. I am posing some very real possibilites.  We are going to get another chance for redoing the revolution disaster. Better get it right this time.

VPK

"I will take a position based on fact after careful analysis"

I see. So u think the crimes of the IRI are not factual?. 

"I am not going to commit to a position based on emotion before knowing all the facts."

"Emotional". I see. When Brazil's president objected to stoning, IRI used the same exact word. "emotional."

VPK, you keep dodging my question by constantly giving irrelevant answers. Who cares if US is right or wrong?

OK, Let me phrase it another way:

Forget about USA. Assume 5 years from now, the US doesnt exist (and it's busy with its own domestic turmoil). Now: Is fighting a war against the current Islamic Republic of Iran justified? Would u support it?

Marhoum

Thank you for your kind remarks. I have respect for you as well. A great deal of it. 

My remark was somewhat in jest. But there is some truth to it. Yes hard work does pay in the USA. But you get respect when you make money. I did not say inherit I said make. So you work hard and make money you get respect. It does not matter if you have a PhD. In Germany you get a PhD and you get respect. 

Many of my good friends are hard working but have no degree. They are respected because of their work. That is all I meant so don't read too much in it.

Good luck and I am sure you will do well.

Make lots of money and prosper :-)

VPK

I may still be a bastard! (to VPK)

"USA: How much money you got"

VPK, as you know despite my kidding around with Shahis, and my many disagreements with you, I have much respect for you. But I think you are very wrong there, Working hard in the U.S still matters. If I tell you how many companies I have worked for during past 15-20 years you will think I am doing some khaali bandi,...., I have not been hired a single time because of pull strings, and when I came to U.S I was nothing but a poor bastard, I may still be a bastard but I am not poor.