Shah 1974: "I have a mission to accomplish"

"I have a divine command of doing what I'm doing"

02-Jul-2012
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amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Arj did you answer the question elham put

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

Calling pahlavi's a clan, as opposed to a Royal Family, makes any constructive exchange impossible.  Torture was unlawful, however certain acts are not torture at all, by anyones definition.  So no it's not "acceptable torture" but "misrepresentation of what is torture".  Waterboarding leaves long term psychological scars, for this reason it is considered torture. Since I know you don't personally know anyone/a single person with long term psychological scars as a result of savak, I can only brush off your "acceptable torture comment as silly" and demanding an appology to Savaki's who are being misrepresented by your dishonest informing. 

Enjoy the questions.  Look Forward to the Answers.

1) How was life treating you in general? What grade would you give it, from A+ to F ?

 

2)Were you in jail?

 

3)Were you in exile?

 

4)Were you happy?

 

5)Were you miserable?

 

6) How was YOUR life, in 1974, as an Iranian?

 


Arj

Acceptable torture?!!

by Arj on

Dear ghalam-doon; indeed, you're not far off! By their dismissal of "regular" violence (battery, sleep deprivation...) as a form of torture, pahlavi supporters in fact subliminally admit to existence of extreme torture as they have to have a standard, acceptable form of torture to compare that to!

My brother was indeed tortured by the universal HR definition, as he was beaten, sleep deprivated and dragged around by the hair (he had long hair) so that when he was released, he looked like a raccoon. But that does not count as torture by the Pahlavi book, but rather "exercising democracy" as per Moshiri!

.............................................

Dear APFSM, we've been through this  before... Your categorical denial of the Pahlavi clan's any wrongdoing (including torture and murder) makes any constructive exchange impossible, otherwise redundant and futile!


Cost-of-Progress

never mind

by Cost-of-Progress on

EOM


Cost-of-Progress

Answers

by Cost-of-Progress on

Elaham jaan, I was a teen ager in 1974 and here's my personal answers:  

1) How was life treating you in general? What grade would you give it, from A+ to F ?

A+

2)Were you in jail?

NO

3)Were you in exile?

NO

4)Were you happy?

As a clam

5)Were you miserable?

Never!

6) How was YOUR life, in 1974, as an Iranian?

Great!


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Arj, read my post before your last one and reflect on your

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

own childhood experience.  That is where you need to go for your own sake.  You may or may not have a mis-directed sense of injustice, and may be pointing the finger at the life guard trying to save you and not those who torpedoed your life and prospects. The comments in your last post are not going to get a response, because they are unacceptable and need to be ignored until you stop distracting from the real source of your pain.


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Arj never said his brother was tortured, because that would be

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

a lie, he said he was roughed up.  This is the experience of any person when they come in to contact with the authorities and do not show the correct respect for authorities who are themselves law respecting, ( just watch video's of US cops beating the spirit out of a person resisting arrest & provided it can be proven it is not done unnecessarily it is lawful for police or agents to do this just about anywhere).  Oh yeah I was beaten and tortured too!!!! I say this not because there is any truth to it, its just that saying it has become so fashionable these days... self deceit and ignorance is looking so cool.


anglophile

Well I was beaten and tortured too but ...

by anglophile on

unlike some, I didn't allow my treatment to affect my objective judgement of the "system." I find some moanings pathetic.


ghalam-doon

Arj, in other words...

by ghalam-doon on

With your permission, I'm going to simplify what "amirparviz" is trying to say.

Your brother was not tortured. He was taken away by good SAVAKis because they LOVED him and didn't want him to fall into the hands of bad COMMIES who were the enemies of the Shah and hence people.

What you and your family experienced after this ordeal was a misinterpreted reaction to a very normal occurrence in our country. People, especially young ones, were taken away for their own good. They were given all sort of goodies such as pepsi and coca (with their bottles, of course).

You should get over it. Every morning, you should say Shah was good. Shah was democratic. I'm sure if you repeat it 100 times every day, you start to believe in it.

The sad fact is this person (if in fact he is just one person since his style of writing changes with every post), calls himself a constitutional monarchist! He should be the 1st person to condemn the Shah and his father for what they did to this important and ancient institution in our country.


Arj

Pahlavi supporters' lies

by Arj on

It's so pathetic that worshippers of Pahlavis not only constntly have to come up with excuses, but resort to blatant lies in order to justify their screw ups and whitewash their crimes!

Excuses such as "Reza Khan had no choice but to ignore the parliament and kill constitutionalist activists, it was an emergency..." or "all political prisoners under Shah were Islamists, communists and MKO, Shah had no choice but to torture and execute them..." or even "Iran was the most advnced country in the region under Shah..." Indeed there are many many more instences that it would be a waste time to recount!

These are all blatant lies, for no emergency would justify a king's contempt for parliament, Reza Khan the thug famously called the parliament a stable/barn yard, whereas ironically he himself was an illiterated thug who was born in a barn yard in a Savadkooh village!

Moreover, their portrayaleral of Shah's political prisoners as only "Islamists, communists and MKOs" is also a lie. For many many other political prosoners under Shah were decmocratic liberals and social democrats such as Drs. Matindaftari, Lahiji, Peyman or even Shapur Bakhtyar to whom Shah had to confide in a fane hope of salvaging his shipwreck of a country he ruled with absolute power! Dr. Bakhtyar was just released from Evin months prior to his premiership! What group did he belong to (Islamists, communists, MKO)?! Even if he did, it would not have giventhe  Shah or anyone the right to imprison, torture or murder him!

Yet, the most ridiculous of all claims that Pahlavi worshippers make is Iran's advacements under the Shah! What economic advancement? in what region? Unless in comparison to Afghanistan, Yemen or Jordan. Otherwise, we had nothing but an oil-based economy and a rentier society going for us. Let's compare Iran of mid 70s with a mediocre country like India; when Shah imported the first steel mill in Iran, India had fifty of them and even Pakistan had about a dozen! Unless we count assembling Peykan (an obsolete product) in Tehran or the mtchbook factory in Tabriz as heavy industry! Even while selling the most oil (what he excelled at) Iran had a lower per capita income than the oil-rich nations of the region. Otherwise, how do you explain the influx (legal or illegal) of Iranian day-labourers into Kuwait and other Persian Gulf nations in search of a better job opprtunity (a kind of like Afghans did Iran)!

So please stop lying and making outrageous excuses, no one will be fooled! Moreover, Shah is dead and rotting in the dustbin of history along with his "golden gates" fantasies and nothing brings him or his regime back from the dead!


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Arj some things to consider and try to relate to

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

No matter what government exists all governments, without exception have employees that pursue the enemies of the government. For you to decribe Shah's rule as despotic, you would have to know based on your experience tortures existed as part of the system.  There is almost no evidence of knowledge of tortures within the management of Savak, over 3,000 employees and no knowledge of it after 33 years.  Consider if torture had occurred junior and mid level employees would not have been liable so the truth does easily comes out in these situations, yet despite all the benefits of coming out in the open and being totally truthful about torture, the entirity of the apparatus discusses policies and procedures upheld by the SAVAK that had tight controls in place to prevent widespread abuse and no personal knowledge.  What I am saying is the cause for your nightmares and your anger & hatred may be entirely mis-directed, if it is pointed at the previous regime, still after all this time.

It is interesting that in the cases of the USA, the UK, France, Germany and other leaders of the so-called Free World involved in rendition, we know based on evidence given by junior and midlevel employees that their rule is factually despotic, they do use torture and on their own people too, while they change the law on definitions and define their painful, criminal and traumatizing activities as "enhanced interogation".  Sadly for you, you are not yet prepared to investigate and penetrate the truth and the implications of the late shah and the previous regime not taking part in criminal activities at all, but serving their countrymen and women lawfully and faithfully.  Your predicament is obvious from your casual ability to label the late shahs rule despotic/criminal, in your writing in contrast to reality of the late shah being a cross between "my little pony, winnie the pooh and tinkerbell" and the wests despotic criminal rule.  Either way, I'm truly sorry you were a victim of the lust of others for power and their aim to thwart the people of Iran, whch most of us know that the west did infact do very succesfully.  My wish for you is you one day receive justice from the real source of your suffering and my wish for Iranians is that those who have 24/7/365 lived, worked and sleept imposing criminal and despotic rule on others through manipulation & deadly deception fail, even though the did succeed in the past and are succeeding today.


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Bavafa, not true, not even close to all sides of the the truth.

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

Dissent was common at all levels within Iran, from the University President, to the Steel mill President to the heads of Savak, from most senior, to the most junior employee.  It is highly Disingenuous to claim otherwise, I say this frankly because i have in person spoken with each and every type of person I listed above and in each organization I listed.  What I think and where that puts me is irrelevant, the truth based on interviewing and getting examples is what matters.  If the perceptions of society were correct  the great mistake of 1979 would not have occurred and played into the long held aims of the USA, the UK, France who see the mass of people of Iran, their desires for freedom, justice and democracy that includes you as their enemy who they must thwart, that the Iranian people like you were wrong on so many levels based on either self deception, foreign deception or ignorance is what has so many individuals like yourself still today in need of patiently sticking with the process of relating with others.   This is going to be a process for you since you have not spoken with the relevant people and instead like many many others get your information from the main stream media, who defend the interests of the wests corporate world.  On "his wrath" a cross between "my little pony, winnie the pooh and tinkerbell" didn't have any true wrath, maybe a few bluffs, that's the point!  Stop ad think when you describe the previous government as corrupt especially in comparison to the west.  The proud & the patriotic who created that logo were serving the previous regime.


Shemirani

.........

by Shemirani on

 Elham,

In 1974,I was too young to remember but i answer for my siblings and parents !

1) A+

2)No

3)No

4) Happiest days of our lives

5) No

6) Jolly and very hopeful

 

 

"KhodaBiamorze"M.R. Pahlavi !!!!! ke harchi pishraft didim az in pedar o pessar didim ! i'm happy i was born before the bloody revolution at least i had few years of pure happiness in my own motherland !

 


tehran e Azad

Socially , economically ,

by tehran e Azad on

Socially , economically , culturally Iran was one of the most advanced countries in the region during the Shah. The only problem that may be attributed to the shah was having some political prisoners, but his political prisoners Where 

1) Islamists like khamenei, Rafsanjani , Khomeini , which are/ were nothing but a whole bunch of evil Murderers and terrorists.

2) communists , which wanted to turn Iran to a communist country. We all know what happened to communism.

3) mojahedeen, which are in the list of US and europe's terrorist list.

So I must say that the Shah was actually ahead of his time, he was doing exactly what USA ( one of the most democratic nations in the world is doing) is doing today and that is throwing terrorists and enemies of the country behind bars !

 

Unfortunately the Shah was too advanced for majority of Iranians who were and still are nothing but a whole bunch of barbaric animals , that are stuck in middle ages .  

 

In the MODERN era the pahlavis were the best compared to all the kings  before them and definitely better than the IRI.

So until another regime comes and proves that they are better than what the  pahlavis were  , I must say that Iran has seen its best days during Reza and Mohammad Reza Pahlavi 's  era!!!

 

 

 


CallmeRed

see? Ahmadinejad is not the only one.

by CallmeRed on

yeah,right! you had a divine command! pffffffffff

and right now your son has a divine command from god, to be the king. 

I had read about his divine command somewhere before....

some people could not understand!!


Mohammad Ala

ایران بهتر بود یا ایرانیها؟

Mohammad Ala


 منهم جدا از مشکلاتی که اشاره شده نبودم. اما شاه را باید گذاشت آسوده بخوابد.

 ترجیح من این است که پرسشها را حضوری جواب بدهم. 

غیر ممکن است شرایط را با گذشت سی سال با آن زمان مقایسه بکنم. برای من ایران مهم بوده و خواهد بود نه من. با اجازه این چند بیت را با شما در میان میگذارم:
شب بود و ماه و اختر و شمع و من و خیال
خواب از سرم به نغمه ی مرغی پریده بود
در گوشه ی اتاق ِ فرو رفته در سکوت
رویای عمر رفته ی مرا پیش دیده بود


Arj

Days of horror!

by Arj on

Back in 1974, albeit merely a second grader, my life was involutarily and deeply impacted by politics and changed forever. 

It all began with my brother, who was a sophomore at U of Tehran, being picked up by SAVAK for having a banned book (of Marxist nature), and conditionally realeased after being roughed up and interrogated in order to reveal the source from which he had received the book.

This event shook my whole family's life, as my brother who was a top student and a member of his school's science committee, became depressed and picked up smoking hevealy (later on I learned that his friend, a political activist who was the source of the book, had been arrested and under heavy torture in Evin prison who was eventually released in 1979 revolution) while my parents, especially my father, began to give us kids lectures on why we should keep our mouths shut in and out of school as our house and entire family was under surveilance by the SAVAK agents. I remember some of the book titles they took with them to the Lavasan cottage to burn sounded political as far as I could fathom. But, for the life of me could not understand why Samad Behrangi's 'Mahi Siah Kuchoolu' had to be destroyed! What kind of a threat could it pose to Shah's regime?!

I remember the following nights I had nightmares about my brother being arrested and tortured (Joojeh Kabob, Ghapooni, cigar burn...) by the SAVAK agents, waking up in the middle of the night, yet keeping it a secret from my mother who repeatedly asked me what was wrong! Meanwhile in the morning, feeling envious of the majority of kids at school whose lives were unchanged and were abosolutely oblivious to the notion of politics, let alone knowing about the facts of political dissent which SAVAKis called "kharabkari." I recall I wished I was like them (as my dad used to say: "ignornce is a bliss") as I thought my life would never turn back to normal!

Days, months and years went by and I all but forgot about those days. Until as the days of 1979 uprising approached, I witnessed people talk more and more openly about politics, Shah's despotic rule and about SAVAK and torture. I no longer felt lonely and isolated, alas tentatively. For this time around. it was khomeini's turn to arrest kids at school!


Parsy

  Now which one suffered

by Parsy on

 

Now which one suffered more from Megalomania Delusion?  The shah or Ruhollah Khomeini?

If your answer is the first, then you lived in Iran under a ruler who suffered from Megalomania Delusion and now during the sane Ruhollah Khomeini's Utopia you are all outside, now what's up with that?


fozolie

There is a lot more deep pretentious music of that era

by fozolie on

  Each with its own lies of censorship and stories to imprss a bunch of sexually frustrated..... We gave real meaning to rebels without a cause

Mr. Fozolie


Elham57

APFSM, SAM

by Elham57 on

Thank you gentlemen, for your honest answers.

(SAM: Your music was deep, Sir!)


Shazde Asdola Mirza

Elham Questions: 1970's Iran

by Shazde Asdola Mirza on

1) Life was a decent B+.

2) I was on a path that could lead to jail, for political reasons. I was starting to pick up the fight that my father's generation had lost on 28 Mordad 1332.

3) I was considering a self imposed exile (to US); in order to get out of a university and intellectual system, which was pushing us to decide between being a fighter or turning into a "sell-out".

4) I was fashionably depressed (remember it was the 1970's afterall, i.e. Vietnam war era + nuclear mutually assured annihilation).

5) Far from miserable, those were some of my most productive and memorable years.

6) My life was to study hard, go out with friends, read forbidden books, listen to forbidden radio stations, discuss politics, feel guilty (for not helping the "oppressed people" enough), travel, girls, drinking and smoking.

7) and my music was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pQsOg_QEJI&feature=related


Arj

Megalomeniacal delusions!

by Arj on

All megalomaniacs, and petty dictators in general, seem to be under the delusion that they are on a mission ordained by some higher power! Perhaps the reason for such self-decptions is that they don't find the ordinary people worthy of consulting, hence they only take their mandates from higher powers rather than their own masses and constituents!

Ironically though, all these maniacs end up in the dustbin of history along with their "devine mission" hallucinations before the higher powers could lift a finger to save their sorry butts!


maghshoosh

It's all God's will, but don't try to read His mind

by maghshoosh on

The Shah's claim of having a "divine command" to stay the course may not be as far-fetched as it may seem.  The divine purpose, though, may have been to pave the way for clerical accession to power.  So the Shah was just a tool in the deity's hands to bring Khomeini to power.  Regrettably, the King misjudged the purpose of the divine command, if not the command itself, and made the futile attempts that he mentions in the clip at setting up his succession.


ghalam-doon

amirparviz

by ghalam-doon on

Actually I wasn't quite sure whether I wanted to use the word "lunatic" to describe him. Believe it or not, I have some respect for the institution. I don't know if you recall, but more than 100 years ago there was a constitutional revolution in Iran. The main reason for that revolution was to take away the power from despots and tyrants and put the power in the hands of people. This guy and his father betrayed people's trust. They swore to uphold the same constitution and then shredded it into pieces. They derailed the political development of the country for ever. And now we have to be so grateful? Please!


Bavafa

APFSM: Yes it is the Iranair logo….

by Bavafa on

Which I am proudly displaying it an as symbol of being Iranian.  Also as a proud Iranian, I believe that we can and deserve better, not only better than the current corrupt and moronic regime but also the pervious corrupt regime. 

  If you think dissent was allowed in the past regime which be definition it makes many around the Shah a Yes-man, then I believe you are in a minority and that you or any one in your family did not dissent from his command to experinence his wrath.  

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

 

Mehrdad


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

ghalam-doon

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

Bickering will go on for you, because you have your own issues.

There will always be video's posted reminding all and showing them how great it was when the late Shah was King of Iran. Deal with it.

The Japanese, The British, The Dutch and others did not become democratic monarchies overnight, first they had a period of Industrialization and development, literacy etc and then they made strides towards developing democratic institutions and having democratic reforms.  To not acknowledge the life time work of the late Shah as working towards bringing Iranians towards democracy, even after all the successes his team achieved in creating the greatest growth in middle class in the world, is rooted in many ignorant views and stupid beliefs and not on the Shahs part.  Its funny you use the word lunatic specifically, because for the light bulb to come on for you and some others and to put this period of madness you may have been involved in "lunacy" behind you, it will be a long process, requiring understading on your part as well as patience, you can't expect to develop a healthy mind from the sick and uneducated conditon yours might be in right now in 1 day.  Give your self time and keep coming back.  You will need to relate with people and though many won't have time to explain things to you, slowly you will start to get the answers you need.


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Bavafa, interesting your icon is the Iran air logo

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

Iran Air which was developed into a world class airline during the 70's by patriotic Iranians, yet you show your ingratitude to both the late shah and his team of iranian patriots, by slandering them and implyng those around the late shah were just people who were yes men/women.  It is nonsense like that which while you are fully entitled to express and believe reveals to all, who were either not Yes men/women yet supported the late shah 100% or the many who learned that either they or their parents made a mistake by not supporting the late shah, that it is infact you who are living in the past, a dark one, a lie, misinformation manufactured by the west to bring extremists to power, while hoping by using this divisive approach Iranians never see light at the end of their tunnel, (by not being aware exactly what tunnel they are stuck in) so they never bringing to power a leadership again that can stand up to the west politically in order to serve iranians and provide freedom. The past is one that the vast majority of Iranians did not personally experience in the way you described.  That is the point behind Elhams Qu.  It is an honest point her question reveals and your ignorant view conceals from you.


ghalam-doon

Faramarz, I don't agree!

by ghalam-doon on

We cannot compare this lunatic who really believed he had a divine and supernatural mission with an entertainer. After all Googoosh did not ruin people's lives. So as long as they post these videos here to show how great it was back then, and as long as his son claims he was "training his poeple for democracy", the debate and bickering will go on...


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Elham57 answers to your questions..

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

For Me, My family and My Familis family,

My answer to you:

1)How was life treating you in general? What grade would you give it, from A+ to F ?

A+

2)Were you in jail?

NO

3)Were you in exile?

NO

4)Were you happy?

Yes, very, the snow in Tehran that year was especially magical and fun.

5)Were you miserable?

Absolutely not

6)How was YOUR life, in 1974, as an Iranian?

Great and hopeful.

7) Anything else?

Yes I appreciated the Peace, Progress, Human Rights and Freedom I was receiving, so I showed it by respecting King & Country as an Iranian, I appreciated that my King cared enough about my families lives that he got himself involved in Politics, to stand up for us Iranians against the UK/French/USA intrigue in iran through wests supporting extremists and focused on development in opposition to the west who refused to deliver Iran a steel plant or industries even after signing contracts because they were directly opposed to Irans development. I also appreciated that our King wanted our participation in politics,  supporting all parties that were in support of the Country, Peace, Freedom, Human Rights & Progress.

I was grateful to enjoy the creation of the largest growth in middle class in the world, the average Iranian was doing better than 40% at constant prices, standard of living was accelerating much faster than that despite the western support for Extremists in 1974, giving the late shah, his prime minister and personal doctor cancer all in 1974 and funding the Mek, I and my family were a decided people, firmly behind our King, United and undefeatable. 

 


Faramarz

Ghalam Doon

by Faramarz on

 

 

I have no problems with the old clips or the old pictures. I actually enjoy seeing them here, the same way that I enjoy seeing old Googoosh clips or the 70's Iranian movies.

What I do not appreciate is that instead of enjoying the clips for their informative and nostalgic values, people use them as a club to hit each other on the head!

As for Iraq, let the Iraqis tell us what they think, the same with the Palestinians. We should clean our own house first!

 


ghalam-doon

Faramarz, we want to move on

by ghalam-doon on

But they keep posting these clips here. Every day, a new clip of how grand those days were etc.

Also, one should ask the same questions from the people of Iraq. How were their lives before the invasion. Are they better off today?