ISRAEL-IRI

Dear AI: As our pervious conversation

There is no disagreement between us regarding the [stupid] IRI policy, both internally and vastly internationally. So, I won't bore you with repeating what we agree on.

However, while I agree that the misery that has been brought to Iranian people, is vastly a product of their own doing and their own government (IRI), we are here discussing the external factor which IRI has been [miss] using to put down any opposition to its rule. One of those factor, in my opinion, the hyped danger and threat of war by the West which I believe Israel has been the lead player in it.

As for your question about NIAC, I do believe that by trying to remove/decrease the perceived threat of war they will in turn help Iranians

1- by a more defused atmosphere which decrease the inclination of Iranians to 'circle their wagon' and unite behind their government towards an outside thread

2- by removing such excuse from the government to declare emergency laws or at least an atmosphere that could be used to destroy dissident.

We also ought not to forget all other good work that NIAC is doing regarding Iranian-American AND pushing for human rights in Iran.

I believe picking this subject which has been perceived as anti Israel, not shared by me, and forgetting about all other NIAC work is disingenuous in my opinion.

Mehrdad

Roozbeh Gilani

If you believe that no matter how I position it, the nuclear policy has been disaster, why then ask my opinion? But, I respond anyway.

I have never ever said that building nuclear reactors or uranium enrichment facility should take priority to all the problems that Iran has. To the contrary. I believe that they should take a back seat.

But, I am also opposed to lies and propaganda about the program because,

(1) it is Iran's right in the framework of international agreements to have access to nuclear technology. Yes, this right should bve excercised by a government that represents its people, if it chooses to, but in the international environment that we have, once a country  - an Islamic one -gives up its right, even if it is temporarily, it will never recover it.

(2) Neoconservatives and Israel lobby use the program to advocate war on Iran. As a firm pacifist and antiwar activist I'll be damned if I do not reveal the depth of their deception, lies, exaggerations

(3) As a pacifist and antiwar activist, it is also my duty to demonstrate the duplicity and double and triple standards that the West, and particularly the United States have regarding nuclear weapon and nuclear technology. I make no bonz about it: I am a critic of the United States foreign policy, have been all my adult life, and will always be.

Pakistan receives billions of our taxes $$, has at least 60 nuclear warheads, houses Osma Bin Laden for 10 years, creates the Talibans, intervenes in Afghanistan, houses Jundallah, and nothing ever happens to it.

Israel has 400 nuclear weapons, has occupied Palestinians lands for 44 years if not longer, attacks its neighbors at will, and has created an apartheid-like condition in the West Bank, and nothing happens.

And yet the nuclear program of Iran - which the IAEA has certified time and again the absence of any credible evidence for the existence of a nuclear weapon program - is used to constantly advocate war and destruction on Iran.

I am as opposed as anyone to the IRI. I cannot wait to see it go so that not only my beloved Iran is freed, not only my religion is saved by getting it out of governance, but I can also go back there when I retire to die there and be buried there.

But, issues like defending Iran's rights in the framework of international agreement are part of Iran's national interests - the interests that by their very definition are independent of the type of regime that runs a country. After all, the Shah started the nuclear program, and the regime that toppled it continued it.

I repeat: Those who claim that if IRI gets its hands on nuclear weapon - and there is no evidence as of now that it will - it will rule Iran indefinitely are also the ones who believe that Iran must be attacked in order to topple the IRI. Such attacks, if God forbid ever happen, will not topple the regime, but will destroy Iran as we know it. South Afrca and the Soviet Union had the weapons, but the weapons were not used against their own citizens when the time came for their downfall, and they disappeared from the face of the earth.

Mammad

Mashai Today:

اسفندیار رحیم مشایی درباره «التزام» خود به ولی فقیه گفته است: «چنانکه بارها گفته‌ایم ما زندگی در سایه ولایت فقیه را تمرین زندگی در حکومت جهانی امام زمان می‌دانیم و تبعیت از ولی فقیه از لوازم اعتقاد به غیبت امام عصر است.»

Dear Bavafa,

I understand and respect your points of view as many people share what you believe. I will say in generality that I disagree with them.

Specifically, the people in Israel have lost nothing because of Israels stupid policy towards IRI. Israelis (excluding Palestinians in the occupied terretories) are free, their government does not abuse them, they have freedom of press, freedom of religion and their economy is still booming - Check all the Israeli companies on NASDAQ.......Because of all of Israel's/AIPAC's lobbying, Israel has received additional military aid (specifically the X Radar and stealth technology)  and the US will not leave the region anytime soon to protect its oil interest in the region. The IRI can not do jack against Israel right now. All its Arab neighbors fear it more than Israel does anyways and they would beg the US to stay/have a presence in the region.   

Conversely, IRI's stupid policies have resulted in sanctions & poor economy. At the same time, Iranians are not free, they get raped and murdered, no press freedom, no freedom of religion, no political freedoms and we are still busy arguing about nonsense such as making women wear chador.......

The world meanwhile has been witness to weekly flag burnings, shouts of Marg bar this and Marg bar that for the past 30 years.... What has this accomplished accept create an image of backwardness to the world as we look  like we are the same as taliban or the nut heads in Pakistan? Our image in the world today is not of Hafez & Ferdowsi. Our image is friday prayers, Marg, Marg marg,..

Israel has made many mistakes in its policies towards the Palestinians and its Arab neighbors. Its support for the idiot crazy messianic settlers is disgusting.  At the same time, Israel has many good reasons to ignore these Arab 67 initiatives.  This is not the forum for these arguments and this is my beef with NIAC. 

What I wrote below is about NIAC policies and the time they waste on Israel/Iran relations.  A total waste of time and resources if they really care about Iranians. The problems Iranians face today in Iran is not due to what AIPAC/Israel does.Israel did not bring ahmadinejad to power. Israel did not cheat in the election process. Israel did not create the Velyat. Iranians did.

The problems Iranians face today are due to the actions of the IRI internally. Iranians have a government that is based on bigotry, sexism, lack of respect for property, liberty and true civil values. There are no checks and balances and the oil wealth is wasted on bunch of bonyads that serve the clergy. This is why Iran is so screwed up and faces so many problems. Israel and US did not bring Khomeini to power. Iranians brought him to power and made an Imam out of him.  Is Khomeini the bigot an Imam?

Has all the ranting by Trita about Israel helped any Iranians inside Iran? This is what I am asking? How is protecting the IRI and its nuclear program internationally, as NIAC does, actually help Iranians? 

Stop making Israel the issue. Its stupid when Iranians are getting raped and murdered by the akhoonds. 

IRI has done a great job of

IRI has done a great job of demonizing itself....The country is run by lunatics, religous messianic, Marxist, morons. What do you think Pentagon or sate department think when they read that Khameni has annoited himself as God or Ahamdinejad is into witchcraft and thinks Mahdi is about to appear or he is an agent of Mahdi on earth????? These people are out of control and everyone should keep an eye on their bizarre behavior. They are a threat to themselves and humanity.

Dear AI: respectfully,

I beg to differ with some of your assertions

"It is not because of Israel that everyone in the west is out the get the IRI"

Partially true, but one can not deny the fact that Israel along and thru its powerful lobby group AIPAC is the leading entity to demonize IRI and by extension Iran and Iranians. Without their hostile and unrelenting effort, things might have been different, and this article makes good summary of such effort.

"Israel is just a beneficiary of IRI stupidity and they take advantage of IRI's stupid"

Many including me, strongly believe in IRI stupidity both in their foreign policy and internal policy, yet I believe Israel offensive posture towards Iran has directly exacerbated that stupidity and only people in both Iran and Israel have been the loser in this game. I rather believe it is a stupidity and equally on both side.

"What do you expect, for Israel to stay silent and not put pressure on the only entity that opposes all the international peace initiatives with the Arabs"

This is mostly untrue and not a reflection of facts. For a number of years now, there has been an Arab initiative, accepted by the Arab world and endorsed unofficially by IRI for a comprehensive peace based on 1967 borders which in return Israel will be recognized with full diplomatic relationship, the only member that has not agreed to such initiative is Israel.

VPK  jaan:

Please keep in mind that 'enemy of my enemy' is not always my friend.  Case in point MKO is an enemy of IRI, but I hardly think you or I will think of them as my friend.  I believe AIPAC has only Israel's interest at heart and works to protect those interests. Unfortunately, the extremist in Israel have far more influence in this lobby group and as a result get their view pushed thru more which may not to the benefit/advantage of Iranians.

Mr.Bahmani:

Could you please enlighten us (me if not others) as how you came to your conclusion that majority of the commentator here believe in your statement below.

"Are we this backward that collectively we seem to be agreeing (as the majority of comments on this piece seem to suggest) that using the threat of nuclear war against others and setting up a mutually assured destruction paradigm, is the way to achieve respect in the world? In the 21st century?"

Mehrdad

Thank you Mr. Bahmani. Spot

Thank you Mr. Bahmani. Spot on.

RG and VPK: couldn't have said it better...Niacers adn IRI apologist tend to forget that the USA and Israel are fully aware of Marxist/Islamists  intentions of Khamnei for the region and The IRI INC.  think pitting Israel against the US will distract Israeli and the US from protecting their own interests. I think, the US uses and abuses Israel for its own selfish interests as it does with many other countries in the region. The Jewish lobby is not omnipotent as the IRI portrays them to be.

The real enemy

is neither Israel nor AIPAC. It is IR. Let us face it and stop wasting time over Israel. In reality AIPAC may become our best friend. They have the same enemies and problems as we do. We just need to extend a hand to them.

As to how did we get here: It was our idiot an-tellectuals of the 60's. The normal Iranian people have a great deal of respect for education. We had "Doctor" Shariati; "Doctor" Bazargan and the other morons who mislead the people.

They told us that Islam was going to be our salvation. It was not! Some like me never bought it. Others did and now we all pay for their mistake. The majority of people on this site recognize that. Good! We are beginning to learn what is good.

excellent comment Bahmani but some insist on Nuclear "right"

Bahmani, you wrote:"Have we come to this? Are we this backward that collectively we seem to be agreeing (as the majority of comments on this piece seem to suggest) that using the threat of nuclear war against others and setting up a mutually assured destruction paradigm, is the way to achieve respect in the world? In the 21st century? "

great comment. 

Dear VPK

You nailed it. Unfortunately, many times NIAC's obsession with Israel mirrors IRI's obsession and scapegoating. It is not because of Israel that everyone in the west  is out there to get the IRI. IRI is to blame for all of this external pressure.  Israel is just a beneficiary of IRI stupidity and they take advantage of IRI's great foreign  policy. What do you expect? for Israel to stay silent and not put pressure on the only entity that opposes all the international peace initiatives with the Arabs? IRI also happens to be the main supporter of Hezbollah and Hamas- People are nuts if they think Israel/AIPAC would not go after the IRI. 

Instead of Trita wasting his time writing about  AIPAC/Israel, it would be more beneficial to spend time on ways to help the Iranian opposition and in general Iranians getting their freedom. Attacking or concentrating on Israel will not help Iran or Iranians. It wll only help the Akhoonds and IRI.

Iran has every write to nuclear power but the Akhonds should have no right to get it on Iranian's behalf. This is why characters like Mammad repulse me so much. They create this false impression or try to sell you this as defending "Iran's Right" and that is why they are defending the IRI. They IRI could care less about Iran's rights or Iranians. They care about their brand of Islam. That is it.

This false and irrational separation of Iranian international rights which helps characters like Mammad and Trita/NIAC forget/side step the sins of the IRI against Iranians is the biggest crime. 

Once again Trita shows his true calling

As a proponent of the line that NIAC and Trita Parsi are in fact our best organized, best written, best spoken, and best equipped hope for an honest to god opposition group, I call once again for NIAC to abandon it's current obsolete mission (helping Iranian-Americans participate in US civic life), and move to engaging Iran directly in reforming it's antiquated ideas, and irrational concepts of governance.

This piece only shows how good they are at it.

Protecting Iran's sovereignty and preventing an unnecessary military attack by the US and Israel is of course a worthy cause, but worthless, if we do not follow it up by criticizing ourselves when we do obvious wrong.

Iran's current form of government, namely religious based institutionalization of a moral code that the leaders do not follow, and one that stifles individual freedom, including the right to not be religious, and the forced coercion of behaviors and gender-based oppression, is utterly wrong. And a sin too.

One would think that with all of the brain power we as Iranians have and the pride we take in a nationally instituted priority of being a knowledge and science centric people, that we would allow something as invalid as this temporary flavor of government, use 50's era cold war tactics and suggest that having a nuke is the only way to protect Iran.

Have we come to this? Are we this backward that collectively we seem to be agreeing (as the majority of comments on this piece seem to suggest) that using the threat of nuclear war against others and setting up a mutually assured destruction paradigm, is the way to achieve respect in the world? In the 21st century?

If I am wrong, and this is the only way to achieve barbaric respect in this world, then I guess we have longer to go than I thought. And all of this science and technology and logic and learning that we seem obsessed on collecting for ourselves, is a wasted effort. Because we haven't gained the wisdom to step out of barbarism back into the civilization that we originally helped create.

Nuclear red herring

The problem with Iran is the IR not nuclear anything. If there was no IR nukes would not matter. So let us drop the act and get to the real point: IR. As long as IR rules Iran there will be problems and sanctions.

Demonizing Israel is not going to help fix our problems. Obama has plans for regime change but it too smart to say it. Wait until his second term. Right now the plan is to weaken IR support via sanctions. Next will be to stirr up a regime change.

I keep saying: we must be ready for it. Have ideas and lobby for a good alternative. Not MKO and not some "moderate" islamic regime. But a secular real democracy. Where all peaceful parties get to run; win or lose and run again and go on.

Mammad

South Africa and Soviet Union had nukes, and see what happened to them.

• Soviet Union was driven to bankruptcy and torn to pieces.
• South Africa driven to give up Apartheid.

Does not sound like a real win does it?

Dear Afsaneh

Frankly I could not care less about Jerusalem. Why are we not worried about Iran? 

We shall do much better if we turn our attention to Iranian issues. How about Northern Afghanistan or Tajikistan. How about Samarkand; Balkh and Bokhara? These are Persian cities. How about the Hazara who have accepted Persian language and customs. They are treated like *** in Afghanistan even by their standards. But all I hear is Palestine and Israel. We have no quarrel with Israel. No disputes; no issue. On the other hand we have neighbors who need our help not to mention Iran herself.

Now I beg my friends to stop obsessing about Israel. We owe nothing to Islam. It was forced on us under the penalty of death by specially by Safavids. 

Good article. The writer

Good article. The writer knows what is going on. Thank you Mr Parsi

Realistic

I think there are no really good ways to create sanctions that will only target the regime followers and at the same time help overthrowing the regime...

The current sanctions could be viewed as an economical warfare strategy against Iran. The sanctions will lead to more and more people getting tired of the regime and this will ultimately lead to larger protests which increases the chance of overthrowing the regime.

We have to be serious, on one hand we have a situation were we say "don't bomb Iran". On the other hand we have a situation were we say "only sanction the regime followers"? If we somehow magically can sanction the whole regime and all of its entities without sanctioning the ordinary iranian people, will this lead to a democracy?

I think we have to be realistic, if we are not going to go to war with the regime, then atleast we can create a fire, which I think is the US policy against Iran (to create so much discontent which will enable a revolution)...

Unlike many here I don't think NIAC supports the mullahs, but I think in practice if the US would obey NIAC in every sentence when forming a policy against Iran, it would take more than 100 years to achieve democracy...

NIAC suggests a lot good policies also, e.g. if we look at item 3 in NIAC's sanction policy:

"NIAC supports removing restrictions on Internet communication tools,
humanitarian relief, and human rights and civil society organizations."

I think this should be the next step taken by the US. Already there are talks about bypassing internet filtering mechanisms by using satellites and parabolic antennas... If this would work the world could use "information warfare" against Iran...

mammad, no matter how you position it

The stubborn pursue of "nuclear policy" -regardless of it's good or bad intentions-  by the islamist regime has been a total disaster for Iran and Iranians, giving legitimacy to some very extreme advocates of military action and sanctions against Iran

Dont you think that the islamist regime, if true in it's claim about defending  "iranian people's undeniable rights", should pursue a prudent policy which would prevent threats of war, would put Iran in a stronger internationsl position and meet some of Iranain people's real "undeniable rights":

Jobs, decent housing, healthcare, lowering the ever rising food prices.

I'd appreciate your response, as you seem to be firmly advocating islamist regime's nuclear policy, above all other national priorities.

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Iraq, Libya, North Korea

Iraq: no nukes; was invaded.

North Korea: Has nukes; is not even threatened.

Libya: Gave up its nuke; was attacked.

Iran: there is absolutely positively no shred of evidence - as reported by the IAEA not Israel lobby in this thread - that the IRI has a nuclear weapon program, but it now does have a viable uranium enrichment program.

Those who claim that if IRI gets the nuke - and there is no evidence that it will - it will rule indefinitely want military attacks, no matter how they put it. No government uses nukes against its own citizen, because it will destroy everything, including those who control the nukes.

South Africa and Soviet Union had nukes, and see what happened to them.

Mammad

Mr Parsi, no one disagree's with your view that the west

Should back down on its threats to use force against the regime of Iran if it does not change direction.  We all know these crazies in Iran will not back down and the people of Iran will not do any better after being attacked for this fundamentalist governments actions.

However, why do you not put the US government under scruting for doing everything in its power to keep the mullahs of iran in power.  Most Iranians, within Iran and outside Iran want help in replacing this regime and not the kind of help that involves MEK killers and Marxists.  The USA seems to just love Islam for Iran.  It is time you pursued actions that brng this to an end.

Most Iranians within Iran and abroad support the content of the message of Reza Pahlavi for the past 33 years and counting, for free UN supervised elections and the ability of Iranians to determine their own future through the ballot box.  Do not side line his message, it is the aspiraton of most Iranians.  Pro Monarchists and Pro Republicans.

Got real and totally agreed!

"The Israeli threats, however, were bluffs all along".

Nuclear technology is the legal right and property of the Iranian nation, regardless of its regime. It belongs to the present and future generations of Iranians. 

Thanks Bavafa jan for your comment addressed to me

I still need to read up on this more and think about it some more. Nothing beats independent thinking free of the everyday noise.

Anahid Jaan: we each need

Anahid Jaan: we each need to find out own path based on our own conscience

The only organization that we can find which represents our own exact position, is one that we create and probably will be the sole member :)

However regarding NIAC membership, from the get go when I joined, I told myself I will be a member as long as they earn my trust and general position on things. There has been certainly much opposition to NIAC but hardly backed up by any specifics, logics and proof to my satisfaction. I like their work regarding the Iranians in America, redirecting their effort towards human rights abuses in Iran and giving Iranian-American a voice in Washington.

Lastly, absent of any other viable group to provide such services and unity, they will remain the predominate group for Iranians unless some alternative is formed that can earn my trust more.

Mehrdad

spoken like the son of a true akhoond....

one could not expect anything less than PARSI.....who has not mentioned a single thing about the mullahs and their belief in taking over the world, and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent iranians inside and out of the country.

all this tool does is blame israel and the US for everything.....

he will be burried right along his paymaster, khamenei soon enough 

Full on attack and

Full on attack and character assassination on IC and JJ. This is so despicable but very typical of Vevak and savama.

checkout the link kemalmajor provided on his first post on this thread.

Bavafa & Ramin nailed it

I'm always amused at how the people who make ad-hominem attacks against Trita never actually disagree with anything he writes. I'm guessing they realize their own political views (Israel-first, anti-Green movement, pro-war) are incredibly unpopular with most Iranian Americans.

The fact of the matter is that NIAC represents the views of most Iranian Americans. Polls of Iranian Americans prove it.

FOREVER BANNED FROM IRAN

The U.S. sponsors terror groups against Iranians; The U.S. sponsors violence against Iranians. The U.S. sponsors psychological operations both inside and outside the U.S. to turn the Iranian people into a soft target.

It is EXTREMELY unlikely that anyone in the Diaspora that joins these groups, lends them support, or aids them in ANY way will be welcome back in Iran under the present regime OR any other regime. I hope to open up your eyes to these tactics.

Every Iranian should educate themselves and look with an extremely critical eye towards so-called "news broadcasts" from VOA, RADIO FARDA, BBC PERSIAN and other government funded media outlets. The same holds true for "human rights campaigns" - the U.S. exploits that label for military purposes.

I have provided links to two videos below so everyone can educate themselves as to how the U.S. conducts some of these activities. These videos will give you the flavor of how the U.S. operates so you can be mindful of what to watch out for. The next time you watch a "news" broadcast or hear about a "human rights campaign" involving Iran, ask serious questions. It is also useful to see what VOA says on its other channels to the groups it encourages to commit terror attacks against Iranians - you would be surprised.

U.S. SPONSORED TERROR GROUPS AGAINST IRANIAN PEOPLE:

//current.com/shows/vanguard/89438469_america...

HOW THE U.S. HELPED SADDAM, TRIED TO STEAL IRANIAN LAND, AND KILLED 1 MILLION PEOPLE:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeY05iS5iv0&feature... bedded#at=15

Afsaneh: thank you for

Afsaneh: thank you for sharing. Thank you for highlighting those two significant points in history. Needs to be discussed more often.

Bavafa jaan, I don't know what to do with mine

I like NIAC for some of their actions and I have been member for several years but I just wish they had exactly same positions that I have, then deciding would be easier  :).

Precisely Anahaid Jaan

Just renewed mine.

Mehrdad

Iran, the Moslems and "Returning to Jerusalem"

I once told a Jewish friend: "How come history only matters to you if it appeals to thousands of years of Jewish history, while your history with Iran and with Islam, has been limited  to a 60 year old narrative?" We had gone to a Seder dinner - Jewish holiday in April. At the end, everyone would say: "Here's to Jerusalem next year." The crowd were very open-minded, heck they'd invited an Iranian to the Seder! So I asked them: "Can I interject something, here?" - "Sure, please do." The below is the gyst of what I shared with my Jewish friends:

Iran and Islam and  "Return to Jerusalem": Would it be possible for Jewish  people to also celebrate two momentous points in Jewish history when once Iran and the second time Islam returned your people to Jerusalem? Helping with the very "Here's to Jerusalem, next year" statement that you are citing here?

1. First time: the Babylonians had taken over Jerusalem, put the Jewish people into exile, and destroyed your temple. An Iranian King - Cyrus, saves the Jewish people from slavery, returns your people home to Jerusalem, and helps build the  2nd Temple. The famed wailing wall in Jerusalem, is a remnant of the  very 2nd Temple that an Iranian King was responsible for helping your people build.

2. Second time: When the Romans take over Jerusalem, the Jews are once again brutally exiled. For several centuries. Until the Moslem Arabs take over Jerusalem and return your people home to Jerusalem, after a few centuries of expelled existence.

The friends at the Seder table listened. They agreed that the above are a part of their history. I told them that if history is the reason they have returned to Israel, they need to honor other people's role in that same history - and not limit the Iran and Moslem part in the history of Jerusalem, to a 60 year old narrative. Dropping Cyrus and the Moslems, who helped Jews return to Jerusalem on two poignant occasions in Jewish history, is dishonoring the swathes of Jewish people that were saved on these poignant historic occasions.

How often is the above narrative discussed? Not enough, and I personally believe  it is key to finding peace in the Middle East.

Afsaneh