Misc

F. fateh

You see now?

You are "confused" because you read too much into ostaad or anyone else with the same line of thinking. It was you who thought that was what she was saying, But was it really what she was saying??

Did The intelligence Arm really had that access? Can you quote one source. I am just curious.

I hope you are not confused anymore.

KouroshS

I am sorry....I cannot completely follow the content of your response after the 1st sentence. But I shall try.

As for the 1st sentence, "back" then, many Iranians including intelligence arm of the IRI had access to CNN via Satellites.

However, what was meant by that statement was that Iran didn't have a clue as to what had happened until it was done. 

Regarding interpretations, please tell me what is unclear about the following:

"Seriously, those who keep mentioning Israel's "bombing" of Iran must not have thought about Israel's certain defeat and utter humiliation in this kind of adventurism, just like what happened in Lebanon. The difference in Iran's case is Israel will not be able to cease fire and go back to business as usual. This kind of mistake will cause the destruction of very large parts of Israel and death and inury to huge number of its citizens."

What does this say to you?  To me it says in Ostaad's opinion IRI will kick Israel's ass into oblivion.  In numerous other blogs, Ostaad claims that Israel and AIPAC rule the U.S.  So THAT confused me.

Ex programmer Craig: following your format

I know you didn't want to get into this Zionist/AIPAC/Palestine thing but since you made an exception.. I just make a couple of comments:

"Well, for one thing I don't see why Iran feels that it needs to get itself directly involved in this conflict in the first place"

First, I would never want to express any opinion that is on behalf of Iran, since I don't believe in that government nor connected in any way but if we accept your logic, why do you think US should feel to get itself directly involved in every conflict around the world and Iran should not feel that way? Is it because we have the power or is it because we are the force of good?

But more directly, my (personal) position has nothing to do with Iran, US or holly shmolly. I am so oppose to the Zionist because it is a racist regime, because it deals with Palestinians in a fascist way. To me, not objecting to these sort of a treatment is to be OK with Holocaust which I am not.

"If I support the US going to war against Iran but then criticize the US government on domestic issues like health care and taxes, what difference does that make? "

It would make a big difference to me, for me it is not "you are with us or against us" or just black and white. I could be supporting one set of policies and disagree or oppose another set, so it is not either or but I guess for you it is.

" If you support the IRI doing things that offend or threaten me in some way but oppose the IRI doing things that make no difference to me except on a purely academic level, which do you think I'm going to focus on? "

You may want to equate criticizing Israel with supporting IRI. That is your choice but it is a naïve way of thinking.

"do you complain about Russia and China shielding the Islamic Republic in the UN as much as you complain about the US shielding Israel in the UN? "

There has not been any case (at least that I know of) that has been brought up to UN against Iran that involves war crimes, crimes against humanity or any thing in that nature that has been shielded by any of the countries. But I am still oppose/criticize any interference of any of the countries including China and Russia that blocks improvement of human rights in Iran. I am deadly oppose to their passiveness in those regards, just as I am oppose to any government that shields Saudi Arabia or alike regime.

"What? Besides the hostage crisis? Besides Lebanon? Besides Iraq? Leaving actual acts of aggression aside, lets look at the aggressive and threatening rhetoric of the last 30 years?"

How much do you know about Iran/US history? Do you remember/know when the democratically elected government was ousted by a stage coup? Do you remember when the Iranian airliner was shut down or how about the direct support and involvement of US during Iran/Iraq war. How many Iranians lost their lives as a result compare to the acts that has been carried by Iran. The hostage situation was an act to prevent another coup.

Mehrdad

Your Friend...

Was Probably making up stories about getting hammered if he got deported to iran for that reason. Which country in the world would do that? Besides it was not that rough and difficult to fix immigration matters back the as it is now.

I am glad that you came into that conclusion. Times have changed and people change and again, you really should not take what you read here as a means to make certain judgements about whatr really goes on in iran, in iranian's mind, and even try to find out who is with or against IRI.

EPC

So many encounters in one evening... we should become best buddies don't you think?:))

You are leaving aside the "actual acts" and clinging on worthless rethorics that is wrong. Those acts that you described were the job of so many fanatics who for one reason or the other were brainwashed enough to falloff the the deep end. i am mainly referring to the hostage taking act. NO ONE, and I MEAN NO ONE can seriously claim that it was people of iran who supported that. That was  a decision made by the government and carried out by their exclusive band of supporters, which could be considered as cult members that we see in America. Would you say that these cultists are a Reflection of the US government? You know how Insane that sounds?

Americans are not Ignorant no Cowboys. They have, some at least have certain mentality that takes the fun out of matters when it is expressed. It is based on Neglect and lack of exerting efforts to get the real Knowldge about a subject.

KouroshS

You would do much better had you expanded your scope of observation
beyond IC and in to the real world. That way you will see who really is
under any kind of Illusion.

I made my first Iranian friend in 1984... or maybe 1985. He was a student. Or was supposed to be. His student visa had expired a couple years earlier, and he was no longer enrolled for any classes. He worked in a Jewelry store in Glendale. That was in the midst of my time in the Marines, and shortly after I'd lost friends to Hezbollah in Lebanon. I didn't like Iranians much back then, and I didn't like him  either when I first met him. I had to put up with him anyway because he was dating my girlfriend's sister. After I got to know him a bit, though, I realized he hated the Islamic Republic even more than I did. He used to break out in a cold sweat when he talked about what was going to happen to him if they deported him for overstaying his visa. And I don't think he was faking it. 

I've met quite a few Iranians since then. I've even had Iranian bosses. Somewhere between then and now I discovered I actually like Iranians for the most part.

But after I started reading this website, I got to wondering if the Iranians I've known in the past were not sharing their true opinions with me. Or if maybe they are a fundamentally different type of Iranian than the people here. Because there's some kind of major disconnect between what I read here and what I used to hear from them. I stopped trying to figure it out, though. These days I just take what people say here at face value, and proceed from there.

Good, now that we have

Good, now that we have bombed democracy into these nations, lets start with Iran, why not? them Eyranians want freedom, and we shall free them from breathing, free'dem from living, so they won't have to suffer. 

Sad scenario but funny at the same time....

F. fateh

What?
How widespread was CNN back then in order for iranians to find out about that invasion?? ye chizi begoo ke begonje babajan.

That is not what goes in These days. The problem is that people are short in attention span and Bi hosele to actually listen to the reasons give for one's support of a particular position and immdiately come up with their own interpretation, of something that pleases them rather than grasping what ACTUALLY was said. Kinda like what you are doingright now aziz,.

Amazing logic by types of Ostaad and some others

On the one hand, Israel and AIPAC rule the world.  On the other, jenaabe Ostaad mifarmayand Israeli pilots will be shut down in droves by the Basijis!  So which is it?  Israel that rules the world can't bomb a third world army with 40 year old fighter jets and no radar systems to speak of?!!  Remember how 7 Israeli jets flew to Iraq, bombed "nuclear" facilities and came back?  Iran found out from CNN.

These days unfortunately everyone either hates, dislikes and disagrees with everyone else. Everyone thinks what they believe in and what they do is the only right thing and the rest need to follow them.  And unfortunately all of them are wrong.  

One thing is sure. The IRI regime is bad for Iran.  The enemy of the IRI is my friend while they serve this purpose.  And no, I do realize the difference between people of Iran and the government of IRI.

EPC

Everyone in the US believes IRI is planning to build nukes. You aren't going to defeat this line of reasoning by claiming IRI is not trying to build nukes. Come up with something that sounds like it might solve the problem they are worried about, and that you can live with. You have a chance of getting somebody's attention then. They'll just tune you out when you make unsupported assertrions that they believe to be baseless. Especially when the entire population of the US also believes them to be baseless.

My friend. Is this not such a bold assertion, regardless how many polls, Limited in size, replete with inaccuracies for the most part, are get behind it? who do you think is responding to these surveys anyways? CEO"S and Univ professors? DO you think that the genaral pulblic absorbs enough correct and reliable informtaion?

The issue that you have raised is really not THE ISSUE. Just because there are certain people who are "worried" about it, does not give it the legitimacy of something worth being concerned and worried about, and hence no one is under any kind of obligation to validate that concern and offers solutions to relive that feas, or else be tossed aside. The "entire" population would basically believe anything in US, if there is enough exaggeration and hyperbole tied to it. 

 know you are in the habit of justfying things on supernatural grounds such as seeing a halo over your own head or being in direct communication with the messiah and such like that, but this is America. We have more conventional means of finding out what people's opinions are.

Not to speak on behalf of Ostaad here, But those who beleived they were hooked up via a direct line with the messiah were the same ones who brought bush to power, not once, but twice. with him being the main receiver of the message. and the one who felt the stupid halo up his ass or around his head or p...s same thing really, was Ahmadinejad.

 Job Number one for americans to really see that there are people who take that distancing seriously is to open their eyes and instead of being glued to TV and wacth "dancing with the stars" and "office" look around and talk to iranians to know that they have done their job. How about that?

You would do much better had you expanded your scope of observation beyond IC and in to the real world. That way you will see who really is under any kind of Illusion.

Of course it works. Break out of the shell and see 4 urself.

Bavafa

The whole Zionist/AIPAC/Palestine things is something I usually try to steer clear of here. I read plenty of Arab blogs where that comes up all the time, and I think that's a more appropriate venue for such topics since it is, after all, the "Arab-Israeli" conflict and not the "Arab-Iranian-Israeli" conflict.

But I'll make an exception just this once and cross my fingers.

I hardly know or suspect any one on this site that falls in this
category that you have stated. Most of those people who slams the
Zionist including myself, equally slam the regime in Tehran.

Well, for one thing I don't see why Iran feels that it needs to get itself directly involved in thsi conflcit in the first place, so when I see Iranian-Americans supporting the IRI in its proxy war against Israel I assume they do so out of blind nationalism.If they turn around and criticize the IRI while at the same time they seem to be supporting it makes no difference. If I support the US going to war against Iran but then criticize the US government on domestic issues like health care and taxes, what difference does that make? I'm still supporting the US Government in its foreign policy, am I not? Do you think anyone outside the US is going to care if I criticize the government on social issues? They don't care about American social issues.

But some
folks fail to see that.

It's not taht they don't see that. It's that it doesn't matter to them. If you support the IRI doing things that offend or threaten me in some way but oppose the IRI doing things that make no difference to me except on a purely  academic level, which do you think I'm going to focus on?

And there's the whole issue of intellectual dishonesty which I won't get into because its impossible to prove.

They think being critical of Israel equates
aligning with the regime in Tehran. If you have not been able to make
that distinction, I don't think I will be able to make it any more
clear here.

IRI has been waging proxy war on Isreal since the early 1980s. You either support that, or you don't. The time for criticism is long gone. Wouldn't you find it bizarre if Americans were "criticizing" Saddam after the 2003 invasion? Or "criticizing" the Taliban right now? We're trying to kill the bastards, not chastize them. Know what I'm saying?

In regards to 'Booz vs. sheep' you are correct, my Farsi, like my English is not very good.

I had no idea what it meant in Farsi. I was just pointing out that "goat" doesn't really work. I don't know how your faris is, but your English seems fine to me.

Can you give me some example how US has significantly benefited from this friendship with Israel?

I don't understand why teh US has to benefit from something before considering a country to be an ally? I don't think teh US has benefitted much from it's good relationship with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc over the years. Is there any reason that we can't accept a good relationship with another country just for the sake of having a good relationship with them? My personal opinion is that the US has enough enemies.

What I see, we give them about (I think) $3B a year and have fought
a few wars on their behalf.

That is one way to look at it. I suppose some would argue they have fought wars on our behalf, seeing as how the USSR was backing the Arabs for the first few decades after WWII.

What I don't understand is why it matters to Iranians? Why does it have to involve Iran? Do you believe the Israelis would object if the IRI stayed on the sidelines? Do you think the Israelis would try to drag Iran into the fight anyway?

We have constantly shield them in the UN
where has cost us a reputation of shielding a regime that at best is in
violation of a number of UN resolution and war crimes.

That's not "at best" you know? Those are the worst charges people make against Israel. As far as shielding them in the UN... we do what is in our interests and what we think is right. We especially like it when what is in our interests is also what is right, but that's not always the case.

let me ask you, since you are so critical of Tehran... do you complain about Russia and China shielding the islamic Republic in the UN as much as you complain about the US shielding Israel in the UN?

Can you give me some example in this regards where Iranians not
justifiably defended their rights and country and had been outright
hostile towards US without cause.

What? Besides the hostage crisis? Besides Lebanon? Besides Iraq? Leaving actual acts of aggression aside, lets look at the aggressive and threatening rhetoric of the last 30 years? The "Death to America" parades w've seen on our televisions for decades? You may feel like that's all minor stuff but I feel pretty safe in saying Americans don't seee it that way. We're not as much the ignorant and violent cowboys that people like to claim we are, and we're good about giving people second chances and looking for a win-win wherever possible, but people have to make an effort you know? And I think a lot of Iranians do make an effort to make things better than they've been in the past. What I don't get is the Iranians on this site who act like the past is all just fine and Americans should just play along with wahtever lies teh IRI wants to tell is like it's our fault or something. That may make an IRI supporter happy to think the islamic republic is in the right, but it damn sure isn't going to sell well in the US.

need help

1. Our asses is getting kicked from Baghdad to Pakistan, to Afghanistan to Hindukosh. And we have just realized that thereare 2 kinds of Taliban.

The good Taliban who only want to kill us in Afghanistan, and the Bad Taliban who wants to come to USA and kill us here.

Same Taliban which was center of terrorism just 8 years ago, and before they gave us bloody nose.

2. Pakistan, and her 45 - 85 atomic war heads: Getting daylight kicked out of them by some mixture of good and bad Taliban.

3. Iraq, "Mission accomplished" [I mean destroyed for democracy]- nuf said on that.

Good, now that we have bombed democracy into these nations, lets start with Iran, why not? them Eyranians want freedom, and we shall free them from breathing, free'dem from living, so they won't have to suffer. 

Can someone help me here, who is the terrorist here? I have lost the track. Is it the good Taliban? Bad Taliban? the Taliban in between? Al Qauda[Which US created herself]? Iran? Iraq? Pakistan? Palestine? Syria? Egypt? Lebanon? Afghanistan?  Jordan? South America? Cuba? Central America? Africa? China?, North Korea? Vietnam? .............

Who is the terrorist? The one who has been attacking every single neighbor in past 60 years or who???

-YT 

Ex programmer Craig: following your format

"Which makes them quite different from all the people on this website who love Palestinians just because some guy in a turban tells them they should? "

I hardly know or suspect any one on this site that falls in this category that you have stated. Most of those people who slams the Zionist including myself, equally slam the regime in Tehran. But some folks fail to see that. They think being critical of Israel equates aligning with the regime in Tehran. If you have not been able to make that distinction, I don't think I will be able to make it any more clear here.

In regards to 'Booz vs. sheep' you are correct, my Farsi, like my English is not very good.

"and history seems to indicate they are in truth on our side"

Can you give me some example how US has significantly benefited from this friendship with Israel?

What I see, we give them about (I think) $3B a year and have fought a few wars on their behalf. We have constantly shield them in the UN where has cost us a reputation of shielding a regime that at best is in violation of a number of UN resolution and war crimes.

"except the small issue that history really kinda doesn't show Iranians and Arabs to be on our side"

Can you give me some example in this regards where Iranians not justifiably defended their rights and country and had been outright hostile towards US without cause.

Mehrdad

Bavafa

But then again we need to keep in mind that this is the US of A and
people here are like Booz (goats)

Which makes them quite different from all the people on this website who love palestinians just because some guy in a turban tells them they should? Or all the people in Tehran who chant "death to america" just because somebody with a microphone tells themn they should?

And by the way, the term is "sheep". Goats are notoriously stubborn and contrary. Kinda the opposite of sheep.

...one jumps the rest will follow
without asking any questions.

Yeah. That's what our entrepeneurial and highly individualistic society is famous for. Unlike the societies of the middle-east...

Despite my sarcasm, I generally agree with you. As humans, it is in our nature to follow our leaders. I wouldn't change that if even I could, because we wouldn't be social animals without that instinct.

And of course our beloved representatives
are any thing but representative of the people. They follow the $$$ and
power...

I agree that politicians are corrupt. That doesn't mean they aren't worthy representatives. We vote for them, knowing what kind of people they are. We deserve them. We could just as easily vote for somebody who was honest and sincere, if that was what we wanted. 

...and god blast AIPAC as in this case when it comes to Israel
interest, they have most politicians in their pocket. 

Well, AIPAC probably has a substantial amount of infleunce when it comes to US foreign policy. But most Americans don't really care much about foreign policy except when we've got some kind of crisis to handle. So when the Israelis show up and say they are on our side, and history seems to indicate they arein truth on our side, most Americans don't really ahve a problem with working with them. So it's quite easy for American politicians to take the Israeli line on something. It isn't really against our interests. Is there anything preventing Arabs or Iranians from trying to influence US policy in teh same way? Nothing that I can see... except the small issue that history really kinda doesn't show Iranians and Arabs to be on our side. And there is no amount of money that can change that perception.Therefore, job one for any Iranians and/or Arab who wants to influence American policy should be to put distance between themselves and the elements in the ME that have been historically hostile towards the US. But that isn't what I see people doing here. I see people whining about AIPAC and Zionists, and trying to pretend that the hostility between the US and the Arab/Iranian ME is just some kind of delusion.

That will never work.

ex programmer craig

read manufacturing consent //www.amazon.co.uk/Manufacturing-Consent-Poli...

Ex programmer Craig: I agree with you regarding many polls

But then again we need to keep in mind that this is the US of A and people here are like Booz (goats), one jumps the rest will follow without asking any questions. And of course our beloved representatives are any thing but representative of the people. They follow the $$$ and power and god blast AIPAC as in this case when it comes to Israel interest, they have most politicians in their pocket.

Mehrdad

Ostaad

You can look at the polls, or you can listen to what elected representatives are saying enbloc regradless of party, or you can just talk to your neighbors assuming they aren't all Iranians. I know you are in the habit of justfying things on supernatural grounds such as seeing a halo over your own head or being in direct communication with the messiah and such like that, but this is America. We have more conventional means of finding out what people's opinions are.

ex..., are you saying...

the voices of "Everyone in the US" have been echoing in your head telling you what "they" believe?!!!

There's a medical name for your condition, homie. Time to go to the VA psycho ward and take up residency. Do it for "Everyone in the US" sake!

Abarmard & MOOSIRvaPIAZ

Abarmard,

Now allow the neighborhood to absorb all the democracy before bombing more democracy and freedom to them!

He's not a neocon. He doesn't care about democracy.

MOOSIRvaPIAZ,

...towards the end he says he "believes" Iran will go on with their nuke
program. As in, damn all the evidence that the regime isnt making the
bomb.  

Everyone in the US believes IRI is planning to build nukes. You aren't going to defeat this line of reasoning by claiming IRI is not trying to build nukes. Come up with something that sounds like it might solve the problem they are worried about, and that you can live with. You have a chance of getting somebody's attention then. They'll just tune you out when you make unsupported assertrions that they believe to be baseless. Especially when the entire population of the US also believes them to be baseless.

I swear, he blongs to Folsom prison

As they have tasted defeat in Iraq and contemplating if they have the stomach to continue in Afghanistan, this jack

A$$ is advocating another adventure. Of course he is not losing any thing, any family members. They get rich by killing others and what do we call those????

I hope and fairly sure of it if they did decide on such adventure, Iran pound them as hard as they can.

Mehrdad

No surprise

These war thirsty congressmen/women have to earn their campaign contributions that was provided so generously by AIPAC and other lobby groups don't they?

Same groups who were shedding crocodile tears for the demonstrator just few months ago, now are ready to bomb them all.

Shame on blind servitude of these spineless crowd.

-YT 

Actually I think Israel should certainly try to...

"bomb" Iran. I have bought a ton of "aajeel" waiting for the "I love my mom" show on the Iranian TV showing the battered and injured Israeli pilots who will be shot down and captured, if they are lucky, by Iranians to be displayed on TV sending "I love you, mon, dad and Moshe my little brother" messages back home. I'm sure a lot of Israel's "top guns" will crash and burn, but I still think there will be enough left for a "good show".

Seriously, those who keep mentioning Israel's "bombing" of Iran must not have thought about Israel's certain defeat and utter humiliation in this kind of adventurism, just like what happened in Lebanon. The difference in Iran's case is Israel will not be able to cease fire and go back to business as usual. This kind of mistake will cause the destruction of very large parts of Israel and death and inury to huge number of its citizens.

Tokhmeh boudaadeh anyone?

Burton the imbecile

Several points to be made:

1) Dan Burton ought to go back to grade school and learn how to pronounce Iran correctly!

2 Without meaning to advocate current Iranian regime/ theocracy, where the heck does his get his information regarding Iranians having already or are close to mastering the nuclear cycle?  Would it be the same faith based intelligent estimate that lead to Iraq war- i.e: genocide, mutilation, and killing of more than half a million innocent Iraqis?  Someone ought to tell this imbecile it takes more than brain and guts to complete the cycle.  IT TAKES A VERY LONG TIME! Iran, at its current technological state, is incapable of enriching uranium to the required 80-90% level necessary for weaponization.  By IAEA's own estimate current enriched Iranian uranium dos not exceed 3 to 4%.  And now it is up to Russians to take the mantle and further enrich it to 15-18% level needed for medical purposes.  

3) Let's investigate to determine amount of financial backing provided to Dan Burton by the likes of AIPAC.  Several years ago when news of his extra-marital affair broke out, he was on the verge of being ousted by the contituency in Ohio.  It was only after receipt of AIPAC funds and support by certain neocon elements that he was able to remain in the U.S. house of representatives and continue with his lies and war mongering.

4) Dan Burton talks about a hellish environment in the Middle East, second coming of holocaust, and U.S. regional interests being compromised in the event of an Israeli attack.  His proposed legislation- more sanctions- is a laugh.   How ironic that the 1991 economic santions placed on Iraqis were meant to avert war.  But if Dan Burton and his Jewish lobbyists are hell bent of attacking Iran, then all this writer can say is BRING IT ON!  It will be a pleasure to show him what real hell looks like!                

You know who he is? Remember Monica days and his love child?

He was the one charging and leading the Clinton Impeachment.  He was so for "family values" and against Clinton and hated him so much only to admit and apologize later that he has a love child out of wedlock.

Now he says if we don't attack, Israel will.  So? Is America going to "miss" a cake in Iran if Israel does it instead?  I think this is all that is left of Netanyabu and Israeli war mongers.  Cling to asses like him, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Michelle Milken and Ann Coulter and say the same crap over and over again. 

Everything is sacred.

US has done enough

Now allow the neighborhood to absorb all the democracy before bombing more democracy and freedom to them!

"belief" is the keyword

towards the end he says he "believes" Iran will go on with their nuke program. As in, damn all the evidence that the regime isnt making the bomb. 

So regardless of what Iran does, these people will still believe than Iran will make the bomb.  So what is the purpose of this sanctions bill? 

Simple, prepare the grounds for war with Iran.