Mohsen Kadivar

Charlie Rose conversation with Iranian philosopher, University lecturer, cleric and activist


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ex programmer craig


by ex programmer craig on

Now this speaks volumes about the quality of the American universities
that give fellowship, or professorship to every Tom, Dick and
Abdolkarim (or Mohsen, if you will). Not so in a British university, I
am glad to say.

Yeah, we have yet to match your success with churning out mindless puppets who aren't capable of thinking for themselves. But as you can see, we are working on it.


PPS-Are you Anglo, or just a lover of Anglos? Because, I'm Anglo, and I gotta say... I'm not feeling the love over here.


ex programmer craig


by ex programmer craig on

I don't know, but I'm guessing that the word 'detainee' became common in the press due to Guantanamo...

The word "detained" is proper for people who have been taken prisoner, but not charged with any crime. The word is "arrested" for people who have been taken prisoner and ARE charged with a crime.

Both words describe prisoners. I think Charlie Rose's usage was better because it makes clear that at least most of these people have been taken prisoner but have not been formally accused of criminal activity.

The reason the US military uses the word (and it has been in use for decades if not centuries) is because prisoners of war are not criminals. Under normal circumstances, enemy combatants are the only people who are subject to being taken prisoner without having broken the law. I think it's very telling that the IRi is treating their own citizens like enemy combatants. And I think it is proper for the media to draw attention to that.

And one final comment... the word for somebody who has been arrested and charged is "suspect". I haven't (ever) heard of the western Media describing somebody in an Iranian prison as a "suspect". Have you? And then there's the whole "perpetrator" terminology, reserved for somebody who has been charged and convicted. Again, this term does not get used by the west for prisoners in Iran. I think that's a testament to how little faith the west has in the Iranian system of justice, myself. I hardly think anyone is trying to sugar coat things.

I'm not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, by the way. Just don't want you to waste your energy going down a dead end :)

BTW, for the record: MARG BAR CHARLIE ROSE!



rosie is roxy is roshan

Oh, I'm seen it done onsite about the flat speaking style too..

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

from everyone from Reza Pahlavi to Moussavi. Supposedly it discredits their content somehow.



by anglophile on

I am with you on this all the way. My point was the same as yours: instead of making such a big noise about his accent, let's listen to his words. No one discussed his words but the way he sounded or the quality of his English. Thanks for your explanation Capt_ayhab.



by capt_ayhab on

Welcome to debate, Persian style ;-)

Not that I agree with everything Mr. Kadivar[MOHSEN] says, but it is in our genes to insult someone, either the way they look, or the accent etc etc, anytime we do not like or agree with what he/she says.

Same people who may call this guy bache akhund and many other names,  in other blogs they talk about tolerance and how AFTER democracy wins in Iran they are going to rehabilitate the Basiji's and Sepahi's.

I do not know how long this man been out of Iran, but one principle is that older the age of migration, harder, or even impossible to shed the deep accent. So rather than insulting his accent or his looks, criticize his ideas and talk about what he has to say as opposed to how he says it.




What's all this fuss about accent?

by anglophile on

Have you ever heard Abdolkarim Soroush speak English? Unlike Kadivar whose main knowlege of English was limited to whatever he had learned at Shiraz university (sorry LC, I meant Pahlavi :) Soroush studied and got his PhD from a famous British university (SOAS) and yet he speaks English with an accent of an Iranian tourist from Qom. And, surprise surprise, Soroush was a visiting fellow at Harvard!! Now this speaks volumes about the quality of the American universities that give fellowship, or professorship to every Tom, Dick and Abdolkarim (or Mohsen, if you will). Not so in a British university, I am glad to say.




His last name

by capt_ayhab on

His last name is pure Persian, KADIVAR means Keshavarz[Farmer] in Persian.



rosie is roxy is roshan

Ali, political prisoners and the missing, not detainees

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

iThaks for the point you made, but in the United States and elsewhere, a detainee is given an amount of bail (s)he has to pay. As you know. Upon payment of which the detainee is provisionally released. I am not sure whether someone who can't afford bail is referred to as a detainee or a prisoner, but the latter should imho be used for the reason I stated below--little  prospect of immanent release.

Now, when there is no bail, when people have been 'missing' for five weeks and aren't even, by IRI's own admission, adequately being kept track of, with no offer of bail, and one has already come out in a body bag, etc. for purposes of conveying the proper message to the public (and ourselves) we have the right and obligation to use 'political prisoners', as Kadivar does

In the United States, many prisons are known as 'detention centers' when in fact they hold 'lifers' and even have a Death Row. If governments can choose this terminology to suit their needs, so MUST we.

People will be far more alarmed by hearing about 'politcal prisoners' than detainees, and so they should be (and I'm sure Sohrab's mother never thought about him as a 'detainee'). The impetus for the strongest international outcry humanly possible to release the political prisoners can only happen if they are called what they are. After FIVE WEEKS with...

Political prisoners. And..

the missing.

Ali P.


by Ali P. on

Usually, when you receive a prison sentence and start serving it, you are a 'prisoner'.

 Until then, they refer to you as 'detainee'.

(and if you are missing, we should you "Missy", but I don't think we do!)

rosie is roxy is roshan

I am very against the word 'detained'. It should not be used.

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

The imprisoned people are PRISONERS. Kadiver calls them prisoners, Rose calls them detained.

Detained, detainee, are words similar to collateral damage. They serve to tone down a critical situation (although in the case of the recent events, unintentionally on the part of the greens and their sympathizers).

First of all, detain is a less common, thus less visceral word than prisoner. It also implies temporariness and emphasis on immanent release, supposedly without injury (or death). It has been now five weeks since many of these prisoners have been 'detained." At least one has come out in a body bag, a kid no less. Many have not even been heard from yet by their families, on top of which IR last week admitted they don't even have proper records on numbers and identities of these 'detainees'. Who will be the next lucky one to come out in a body bag, I wonder? Further, so many would've been 'detained' far longer had they not issued shotgun confessions.

I know all of this is no news to you but I ask you do these people sound 'detained' or 'imprisoned'? THEY ARE POLITICAL PRISONERS.

I don't know, but I'm guessing that the word 'detainee' became common in the press due to Guantanamo but precisely because of its 'collateral damagey' neutralization of the reality..particularly the Bushies' grotesque contention that they weren't 'prisoners' of war, because they represented no nation in battle. They were sunny Cuba. Probably the press just got used to using it and hasn't thought about the negative repercussions to the cause now on the psychological level to the readers.

Let Khamenei and AN talk about the detained. That's their job.

Our job is to talk about the PRISONERS who are IMPRISONED.

And..the missing. Who are missing.

The missing.


ps As per above, I modify this post: they should be referred to as POLITICAL PRISONERS and the missing. 'Prisoners' alone implies they may very well have done something wrong.

Reza-Rio de Janeiro


by Reza-Rio de Janeiro on

If this Akhond in plain clothes with his inability to stop people falling sleep and with his retarded mentality, vocabulary and accent in English is a professor in any university, then the rest of us must all be Prophets !!!

If an Akhond like this guy is going to be in charge of any future government in Iran, then we are all F$%ked once again!!!

For the LOVE OF GOD, out of so many classy Iranian geniuses in Iran, United States and around the world, Iran and in Iranians must be represented by a guy like this??? A guy who can not even speak English properly ,But loves to pronounce Mohamad and Ahmadi with super thick Arabic accent pretending he is better than Arabs in their own language... (typical akhond....)

One would expect a professor teaching in a major University to be able to express himself more intelligently and clearly regrardless of having good or bad accent in any second lnguage!!! If he was really an intelligent and educated one and not a twisted fanatic like the rest of them in charge in Iran, he would express himself properly...

Furthermore, he mistranslated his boss (Rafsanjani) and totally misinformed the viewers like a professional akhond that is so disconnected from the realities in Iran and this world.......

I swore there is something so wrong about this picture , people like him and all these low lives who are and want to be in charge of our future in beloved Iran...........

May God help Iran and True Iranians............



by Yaasi on

I heard Alireza Nourizadeh talks highly of him.  Is he Indian??



by Yaasi on

Why is he out of the Country? and Charlie Rose interviewd him???


Saggeh zard brothere shoghaleh..

by delldaar on

Iran and Iranian don,t need this bache akhounds advice and analysis, as far as his english skill is concerned , that was third grade skill....


A Cleric?!

by aaminian on

These bastards routed us out of our homeland and now they are here to haunt us again.  I want to know how he got through the INS.  BTW, WTF happenned to his turban.

Darius, are you related to this guy?! :)  Just kidding...

Literary Critic

We were both at Pahlavi

by Literary Critic on

Nineteen seventies, Pahlavi University, Shiraz Iran. I knew Kadivar through my flatmate who was in the same year and the same department (Mechanical and and not Electrical). He never came across as a fanatical Islamic boy. If anything he used to wear a trendy leather jacket and suede shoes but he was a very decent sort of guy. Needless to say he was at the top of his year (GPA of 4 or something very close). I can't recall if he was ever arrested as he was not a politically motivated muslim but may be he got the revolutionary bug that was at a pandemic level in those days and spent a short spell "inside". It must have happened after I left Pahlavi. The language of teaching at Pahlavi was English, hence his facility with the language.

Marjan Zahed Kindersley

Jahanshah Javid and Darius Kadivar, you poor sausages!

by Marjan Zahed Kindersley on

I have to laugh. One alleged killer and this personage. (I do wonder how much studying of Islam is needed in over one thousand years! And how much skill it takes to avoid the real issue: money.).

I had this Mr Khorassani in the UN as a delegate for a while....

Maybe it's best to be called "Smith" to cover all sins.


About Mohsen Kadivar

by farrad02 on

He sounds reasonable!


Thanks Darius for a trip down memory lane

by farrad02 on

I had not seen Franco Nero in a musical role! :)

This is so far away from his Spagetti Westerns of the 1960's and 1970's!


Duek university is in England :DDD

by Iranboy on

Mam, Duke university id in Durham, USA not England

Darius Kadivar

JJ Jaan, a Genuine KADIVAR Never Wears a Turban ;0)

by Darius Kadivar on

Unless of course He is a Prisoner of Zenda ...


Otherwise C'est Moi  ...







Who is Kadivar?? Are you serious?

by ELHAM on

He is from Shiraz. His studied electronic engineering at the Shiraz University, was arrested during Shah and went to the jail. Later on, he changed his major to Philosophy and got his PHD in Islamic Philosophy. He taught in few universities in Iran and also in England ( Duke university) and US (Virginia). He is an author of many books and articles. He believes that Velayat e fagih is not necessary part of shite.  And, yes he is a cleric from Qom and sutdent of Ayatollah Hossin Ali Montzeri

Ahmed from Bahrain

His accent is Iranian

by Ahmed from Bahrain on

You guys must have lived in America for too long. All the Iranians I have met speak with a similar accent. I can pick it from a mile. They are the Iranian who have recently left Iran and for nearly a decade they still have the same accent.

Accents are great. We can't all be expected to speak with a Yankee twang. As long as the person is articulate and can communicate his or her message clearly which this guy did very well.

I am pleased that Iran has such key players.

Ahmed from Bahrain

Mardom Mazloom

Hey guys,

by Mardom Mazloom on

no kidding, how many of you still speak Farsi without any English accent?



by mn on

He is from Shiraz, Iran.



by mn on

Mr Javid,

You should know better that turbon is just a tradition and is very much different than Hejab. There have been many who attended traditional school but yet chose not wear turban for variety of reasons.

As for the Hejab those who believe in it  claim that there are verses about it in Quran. There is nothing about turban in the book.


Is he

by MRX1 on

like his beloved khomeini hendi zadeh as well? seriously what Iranian has an accent like this?

Multiple Personality Disorder


by Multiple Personality Disorder on

When a lie is repeated over and over again it becomes the truth.  Rafsanjani did not "emphasized the release of all political prisoners".  He never said (as it is mentioned elsewhere): “All the political prisoners must be released immediately.”  He didn’t say “all”, he didn’t say “political prisoners”, he didn’t say “prisoners”, he didn’t say “must”, and he didn't say "immediately" either

He asked an unknown person, or persons, to give permission for individuals in prison to get to their families.  He said “individuals in prison“, but he did NOT say ALL political prisoners 

In case Mohsen Kadivar does not comprehend Farsi, here is what Rafsanjani said, so you can read it over and over again again

لازم نیست در این شرایط ما افرادی را به این نامی که الان هست تُو زندون داشته باشیم.  اجازه بدین اینا بیان به خانواده هاشون برسن.

Now, I can interpret this statement in at least twenty different ways, but nowhere in that statement he is asking for the release of all political prisoners.  If he was asking for the release of all political prisoners to freely express their political beliefs he could have clearly said

اجازه بدهید همهء زندانیان سیاسی آزاد شوند تا بتوانند به فعالیاتهای سیاسی خود آزادانه ادامه بدهند.

Now, that would be a clear and concise Farsi speaking, not the kind of words some spinners try to put in his mouth


More power to him

by Peykan on

How many Akhoonds do you know who can conduct an intelligent conversation in Arabic (which they spend their whole lives learning it) let alone English?

Jahanshah Javid


by Jahanshah Javid on

Kadivar was cautious. But what seems obvious to me is that Khamenei is not going to back down. He doesn't believe in retreats or compromises -- not on this scale. He has clearly committed himself to defending Ahmadinejad all the way. Which I think is actually good because this will make the crisis worse and divisions clearer. It has made the people focus on Velayate Faghih, rather than just Ahmadinejad. It has and will weaken the foundations of the Islamic Republic tremendously. It will make it more and more isolated inside and outside Iran. Protests will spread and many will be killed. But the future is bright. This too shall pass...

And no one noticed Kadivar is not wearing his turban? This is almost like women not wearing the hejab. Maybe he's contemplating becoming a civilian. He has always been a liberal rebel, relatively speaking.