News

didn't we discuss Jamaran before? Here is a reference:

ناو شکن جماران از دروغ تا واقعیت.

۱. این شناور فقط یه ناوچه است.

۲. این ناوچه جماران کپی‌ ناوچه ۴۰ ساله وسپر(الوند) انگلیسی است که ۴ تا از این مدل زمان شاه در ۱۹۶۹ خریداری شده.

۳. تنها تفاوت خالی‌ بودن پشت این ناوچه برای فرود هلیکوپتر است.

۴. با توجه به زخمی بودن بدنه به نظر این یکی‌ از شناور‌های زمان شاه است که تعمیر شده.

ناو شکن جماران از دروغ تا واقعیت

//iranianpast.blogspot.com/2010/02/blog-post.html

I had a second hand account

I had a second hand account of the making of the first fighter jet of Iran army under IRI.

A group of university graduated conscripts were collected to work on this project. The story was told to me by someone who hoped one day make a movie about it. I don't recall much of it, because the development of the plane itself was the backdrop of the main story which was about that group of conscripts itself. A couple of bits that I remember is about, for example, when they were lacking the measuring tool for testing the straightness of the structure of the plane and instead a guy was shutting one eye and looking tangentially from the other eye and saying to others okay, it's good enough!... or that in the last test before the official showdown in presence of big akhoond, they noticed that from its wings the gas is leaking, literally pouring out, to the extend that there might not be enough gas left in the plain even for a demonstration flight. So they shoved some rags into the fissures so that at least it doesn't show dripping from distance for the demonstration!

This story is from some twenty years ago and of-course things are much better now. But the mentality, the context and the condition in which technology is being developed remains the same. It is only improved somehow by trial and error.

Do I undermine the effort of those Iranians by recounting this? do I dismiss completely the potential of our people to make things happen? even making such plane developed under such condition, by any standard is a miracle.

The question is not what Iranians can do. The question is what do you see in a real story.

Responding to Omid Karimi

the war would bring the US to financial, political and moral collapse. 

Okay, so the Rapist Regime that fought another weak Third World country led by one of the worst military commanders in the world, Saddam Hussein, with a much smaller population for 8 years is going to bring the most powerful military and economic power in the world to financial and political collapse  :-)

Omid jaan, it's good to know that you're being realistic. But just know that such delusions can prove very deadly and costly for innocent Iranians.

PressTV?!!!

Are you kidding me? The same IRI propaganda outlet that claimed that Neda Agha Soltan was shot by the BBC / Israeli / American agents and the police truck that ran over the protester was stolen by foreign agents?!!!!  

Give me a break!!!! 

Omid Karimi - You can choose to believe propaganda

or you can look at an objective analysis of facts.  Look at this link.  The last two comments (on top) do a side analysis and show -- clearly-- that this so-called "destroyer" is the actual Vosper class British frigate that was damaged in the 1980's:

//iranian.com/main/2010/feb/jamaran-destroyer

As far as the rest of your comments, let me quote you a couple of nuggets:

As for the F5, azaraksh projects, Iran has been making parts for this fighter since the iraq war, and I fully believe that they are able to reproduce the fighter.

It's great that you fully believe in that.  Any objective evidence for it, aside from your belief and the photos and report on Farsnews?

 If it has been upgraded with up to date electronics etc, it would be a first good step. 

That's a big "if".  Any photos of the cockpit  so that we can see the upgrades? 

Here you go annonymous

Just go past all the interviews and propaganda and look at the facts were you see the ship being constructed and drawn from scratch. Only thing I have against the ship is the anti air cannon. They should have invested in the research to produce a gatlin gun like defence system like the US and Israelis have. I guess they felt they had little time.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvuDMnk42s0&feature=player_embedded

Cheers! 

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Yes, how brilliant, by stating that our conventional systems are

weak without any proof or evidence, we will convinvce the Pentagon not to bomb us.. I wonder what military philosopher wrote this brilliant strategy that you are proudly barking. Clausewits? Sun Tzu,? Macciavelli?

Second, its not a "repainted frigatte" from the 70s, videos have been posted for the entire construction process. Want me to post? Or do you people want to show that you can do your own homework before blasting military projects out of the blue. I repeat again, Irans missile capabilities have been proven in the Lebanon/Israeli conflict, and Iran has the infrastructure to construct ships. Thats what this is, a platform for launching missiles. Its not a wonder weapon, but it will do its job in various theateres

As for the F5, azaraksh projects, Iran has been making parts for this fighter since the iraq war, and I fully believe that they are able to reproduce the fighter. Its a basic good bomber for naval and land operations and the best option we have for the moment. If it has been upgraded with up to date electronics etc, it would be a first good step. 

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Yes I am Amir, its you who should be realistic and read a little

The Pentagon likes to bomb nations into pieces from a strategic position where they hold all the cards. Look at their last couple of wars. If Iran had not built such "junk", we would have had "no fly zones" in Iran with daily bombing raids like pre war Iraq. No US invasion or bombing can kill off the IRI. The whole nation would be put into martial law, fanatism would blossom and any protestor, green, hink or blue would be shot on site. 

The thinking rooms of the Pentagon constantly weigh a cost and benefit analysis of every conflict. Im not saying that the Jamaran wil sink the entire US navy, but what I am saying is that if our catamaran speedboats with Noor missiles, our land bases anti ship missiles etc can hit direct hits and cause casualties, this would be a blunder for the US, imagine the tanker traffic that would be disrupted, the bombing of their airbases with iranian cluster missiles etc.. Yes Amir, all of this is deterrence. The US army is mortal, and has its weaknesses. We would lose infrastructure and lives, but the war would bring the US to financial, political and moral collapse. 

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Omid Karimi

First, I have to say that Fair is a patriot and has genuine love and respect  for Iran. He is also very knowledgeable about military matters and some of these maggots who are making a lot of noise on this thread have even acknowledged that fact.  So, I think that you're being unfair to Fair.  

Second, I second what Amir said below.  Has articulated the reality of the situation very well.  It is laughable to think that the U.S. military, or any half decent military in the world, is, or has been, deterred by a freshly pained 50 year old F-5 and a 1970's repaired frigate.  

Third, the danger in what the IRI and its supporters do is than when they boast about something that they don't have, it will give an excuse for warmongers to justify aggression toward Iran. Think about it this way, when you boast that your re-pained 50 year old F-5 is comparable to an F-18, then you give the perfect excuse to the guy with the real F-18, who has been itching to attack you, to send a whole legion of the F-18's and bring havoc on what will then be a defenseless country.  When you boast about having sophisticated ships, when what you really have is a 1970's repaired frigate, then you will give the perfect excuse to the guy with the aircraft carrier who has been itching to attack you to send it your way.  Now, if what the IRI was saying was real, then I wouldn't have a problem with them boasting about it.  As we say in Persian: darandegi va barazandegi.  But when your whole story is based on a bunch of lies, then you are creating a situation that can be catastrophic to your population... but then again, we're talking about the IRI.  When was the safety and welfare of the Iranian population their concern? 

OmidKarimi jaan

you cant fight the forces of Nethanyahoooo and President Palin 2012 with green ribbons and flowers. Thats how the real world politics tick..

Omid jaan, with all due respect, I think you are demonstrating a lack of realism. You think the IRI's military can "deter" the U.S. one iota? With this stuff, might as well use green ribbons and flowers--they will both be equally useless against the U.S. This stuff could easily end up on the bottom of the sea, if IRI tries to confront the U.S. And to be honest, that's precisely where the Rapist Regime belongs: suffocating, dead, and in the garbage bin of Iranian history.

RE: Fair

To be honest, you have no clue, idea or schematics to make the conclusions you just made other than the pictures of the craft. You/I have no clue what kind of technology is in this vessel, what they bought from, Russia, China and Korea etc.

But what IS interesting is that everytime a post about an Iranian made weapons platform comes up on this site, you automatically conclude its "Junk", will be beaten by every navy/army in the world, then you turn it around and say you would be proud if our scientists could develope a dingy and that the greatest honouring we could do to our enginers would be to aknowledge that they make junk.

How fascinating mindset Fair, and its far from being fair, its being selv hating. You project this logical self hating behaviour that is scary. I said I dont promote this as a super weapon, but for anti piracy, tanker and large ship operations, it will work fine, especially as a deterrent. 

I dont know what helps our enemies the most Fair, your constant degredation and bitching of our defenses, military industry or our engineers and military boasting about our systems. 

Look, the pictures speaks for them selves, its a vessel/destroyer/frigatte/fishing boat with torpedo, ASM and ship to ship missile capabilities. How it would or would not behave in a actual combat theatre is speculative, nothing more nothing less (and that alone works as a major deterrent factor), but I like to give our minds and army the benefit of the doubt. We dont have much choice, we are under sanctions, we cant buy foreign weapons, this regime is not going anywhere anytime soon and you cant fight the forces of Nethanyahoooo and President Palin 2012 with green ribbons and flowers. Thats how the real world politics tick..

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Correction: ordnance not "ordinance"

I stand corrected  :-)

No Fear: Every word you say is a lie

The likes of you told the same shit when we were dying in Iran and Iraq war. You called us stupid ignorant basijis who went to war for a plastic key. You said we are doomed to lose the war since we executed too many good iranian generals. you said we were no good. etc etc etc..We'll sunshine... i got news for you.  We are here and you are NOT.You are nobody. Its easy to talk the talk and show the face when you are in the comfort of US of A.  

You were dying in the war? Huh? Unfortunately, you didn't even have the decency to step on a landmine and kill yourself. But there are still plenty of unexploded ordinances around the world, so it's not too late for you to go and die. The fact that the Rapist Regime fought an 8 year war against Iraq, a country with well under half of Iran's population and led by Saddam, one of the most inept military minds ever, is considered some sort of achievement and a source of pride by the garbage standards of IRI cyber groupies--LOOLLL!!!

And you say all of this while living in the West?!? Get lost, you animal! Crawl back to your hole in the Rapist Regime. Animals like you don't belong here.  

Payam Jaan very funny

and what about the other ones, like the village idiot IMF, who use such obscure sources as "Pakistan Daily Star"?   

It's funny that people like sargord critice your source

while their main news source are Press TV and Fars(Farce) and likewise which they even dare to post here! Out of all people sargord, you really should bite your tongue on the news source issue.LOL.

A Classic episode of dumb and dumber ...

Wow.. i see the anti Iranian cheer leaders are spreading those legs as wide as possible.

AO ... since you never answered my question, i may ask the other retards who came to your support so blindly , to explain your retarded and bankrupted logic on how a weak and outdated Iranian military would prevent an attack on her soil.

Afterall, this is the garbage you are saying isn't it? Didn't you say that when IMF is boasting about " OUR " military achievements, its actually an invitation to attack?  How so?   please enlighten us with your military and strategical wisdom.....

I told you , that history and what it taught us about Iraq, proves that US does not need an excuse to attack any nation. They can fabricate an excuse and attack Iran without any provacative measures by Iran.  yet you keep saying when IMF boast about the military its an invitation to attack?   Please tell me HOW SO? Iraq tried to tell the world it doesn't have any WMD, yet they got smoked. And you are advocating that we anounced to the world that our military is outdated 1950s technology? Even if this crap you are saying is  true. why any nation has to admit it?

Do you think before you write?  Or are you so blindfully full of hatred towards any Iranian achievement?

Are you trying to tell me, you are calling it as it is? That Iranian defense is as useless as IR and they are doomed in a confrontation with US?  Fine. We heard you a million times before. The likes of you told the same shit when we were dying in Iran and Iraq war. You called us stupid ignorant basijis who went to war for a plastic key. You said we are doomed to lose the war since we executed too many good iranian generals. you said we were no good. etc etc etc..

We'll sunshine... i got news for you.  We are here and you are NOT.

You are nobody. Its easy to talk the talk and show the face when you are in the comfort of US of A.  But we both know, that all you could do is nag and whine. This is what you know best.

Samsam Jaan

Thank you my brother.  As we say in Persian: Een daghal doostan keh mibini magassanand gerd-e-shirini!

I have brought them together, haven't I?  No worries though my brother.  Nothing that I can't handle.  Just a bunch of non-Iranian "tokhm-e bigaaneh" that you and I have for breakfast each day.

Shaad zi. 

I reckon that "Tokhmeh Qadesii" residue

& Arabo Ommatie microbe crowd has found a convenient nemesis in the person of dear AO, the kiaani bro who ironically has become a makeshift icon of unity for the half-breeds to bark @.  

Good job pilgram

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Your spelling still sucks and you are as illiterate as always!

you have very little knowledge about Military issues 

Funny, coming from someone who has a photo of a 50 year old F-5 on his avatar (with a paint job that is stolen from American Blue Angels) and calls it a new aircraft.  How dumb are you, by the way?  You can't write a sentence to save your life, your only source of pride are a bunch of reverse engineered 1950's and 1960's Russian firecrackers and a bunch of 50 year old American aircraft that you keep re-painting and calling new aircraft.  How pathetic can a human being be?   

You moron, Nazi Germany went from a slave nation occupied by two different countries to the world's most technologically and militarily advanced nation on the planet in a decade without help from a single other nation.  The IRI has been in power for 30 years, the Iraq war ended 20 years ago, it has been smuggling in all kinds of technology from China, Russia, Israel and the U.S. and its most important accomplishment is the pathetic modified F-5 and even more pathetic Russian scuds.  And they have a bunch of non-Iranian losers like you--who carry flags in South Lebanon with a mushroom cloud drawn on it--waiting for it to be their salvation.  Really, how pathetic and miserable do you have to be?

You idiot, the IRI is so pathetic that it floats on an ocean of oil, but because of its sheer incompetence it has to import refined oil products so that its people can drive their cars. 

Now, its time for you to stop getting involved in other country's (Iran) affairs which you know nothing about.  For the time being, you best lube up and get ready.  Hassan Nasrollah is waiting for you boy. 

This scrap metal would be turned into an underwater exhibit...

I would be very interested to see what would happen to the Rapist Regime's state of the art navy were it to enter into a confrontation with the U.S. Navy. I think it's fair to say that the number of "submarines" in the Rapist Regime's fleet would grow dramatically as one after another dinghy, frigate, destroyer, and rubber ducky was sent to the bottom of the Persian Gulf. Perhaps the IRI should stick to its own class of rivals and battle the pirate boat from Disneyland.  

Fair Jaan

Thank you for your as always sound comment.  The problem with these morons is that they live in alternate universe and they don't want to be yanked out of it.  It's a fantasy world where the IRI is some kind of a super power that actually builds things and battles foreigners.  When in reality the IRI is a petty third world dictatorship that floats on oil but because of its sheer incompetence has to import refined oil products so that its people can continue to drive their cars.  

And this ship of theirs wasn't "built" at all.  It was one of the "alvand" class British made ships that was hit by the U.S. Navy back in the 80's.  They just repaired it and added some commercially available upgraded navigation to it and called it a new ship.  I don't have the time to look for it now, but someone had posted a series of photos on this site which actually showed a side by side comparison with the Alvand class.  The "Jamaran" ship still even had some of the damage to its side from the 80's that was visible in the photo.

And you're right.  The biggest insult to Iranian technicians is for them to be used by the IRI as a propaganda tool in an untruthful way. 

Mr. Spell checker

back to your super title in another ot:

This would be the most appropriate time for you to take your own advice. You proved again that you have very little knowledge about Military issues (much like any other issue) discussed here at IC.

By the way, how is my spelling? You must be good for something!

;-))

That's not the point

Even if Iranian specialists make a rubber dinghy I will respect that immensely, since they have to work under ridiculous conditions.

The point is the lying.  It is not "IRI destroyer", nor "our destroyer".  It is not a destroyer period.  It is a frigate, and no it will not be sunk just in a confrontation with the US Navy, it will also be sunk in a confrontation with any navy or air force in the region after 1990, like KSA or Kuwait.  Of course I pray and hope that never happens, but to pretend otherwise is only fooling ourselves.

So if you can actually point to something in this post that is untrue, that would be great.  Otherwise, I don't see how the "conclusions" are irrelevant?

The best way to disrespect the accomplishments of Iranian engineers and scientists is to claim what they are not, since international technical circles will then take nothing they do as credible.  Also, the best way to make Iran unsafe is to go boast about capabilities that you do not have, because that will only give the perfect excuse for US and allied militaries to justify a buildup, and sell weapons like mad to GCC countries, pointing fingers to the northern Persian Gulf neighbor that has this powerful "destroyer".  The only winners in this are the enemies of Iran.

-Fair

Weiberger went and copied/pasted information on some iran forum.

that I actually participated in.. its a forum filled with non experts and nintendo generals.. and makes whatever Weinberger concludes completely irrelevant.. the Jamaran is a basic vessel with anti ship, torpedo and some surface to air capability (view the picture collections posted on fars). It is perfect to fight piracy, threaten oil tankers and even annoy larger US military vessels with its Chinese inspired missile systems (same techonology was used to hit the SAR Israeli warship during the Lebanon conflict). But after launching two, one missile, it will be sunk if in direct confrontation against the US navy, and the IRGC commanders know this. This is not some kind of super weapon, but the idea is to develope this design so that hopefully one day, our naval needs are home made.

By the way, thats not a "IRI destroyer", its our destroyer, probably many in the "jonbeshe sabz" that have family serving on that ship or participated in designing and making it, and in other parts of the military, making shure the yanks etc dont make Iran into Iranistan while we throw rocks and rape each-other, so some respect is to be shown fosol. Foreign and internal policy are two seperate issues.

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Thank you AO for posting this

I have never heard about this person, so I can only judge by her words and arguments.  And the judgement is quite simple:

It is true.

The Islamic republic lies through its teeth every day, and boasts so much crap that nobody takes their "announcements" seriously.

As far as the retarted people here standing up to you, you will have to excuse them because the last thing they are interested in is Iran or the truth.  Notice none of them have answered even one point in this article and have just attacked you instead.

Of course had you posted some BS from irib that bragged about the latest "ghamare bani hashem" air to air missile with a 1000 km range they might have liked you more.

So thank you for having good taste and not catering to anti Iran traitors and terrorists.  It is probably the biggest credit to you and your posting that they are the only ones that are fuming about it.

-Fair

By the way

I am extremely happy that I posted this piece.  It seems like it really got all the IRI cyber groupie rapist enthusiasts (credit for the terms to AMIR1973) fired up.  And I have to say that it gives me eternal pleasure to see your blood boiling. :-)))) 

AO ..

You are still dodging the issue i asked you.

Running low on brain power , aren't you?  Sucking your thumb might help.  LOL

No fear

you're in Iran? LOL :-)))))))

Yeah....we believe that....when we believe that Ahmadinejad is Iran'e legitimate president :-)))))

PS? Sweetheart, you don't deserve a response.  

Thats it? Was that your reply?

AO  .. Is this how you dodge the issue i asked you?

I questioned your logic on boasting a weak iranian military. Can you please clarify your reasonings? How does such a pathetic approach, benefits us?

And IR is currently in Iran , and we have been here for awhile now. If you think Iran is not what we are building,

1- Either come over and show us how its done

2- Built an Iran where you are currently living.

3- Shut you mouth.

How can I agree or disagree with it? It's utterly incompetent.

FYI-that means you disagree.  Which is OK.  After all, unlike IRI's Iran, no one is going to take you to a shipping container and rape you because you disagree with him / her.