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I find it fascinating...

Sorry, Rosie and David ET,

the only value Gibbs' words have is their ability to treat Iran just like any other country. Failure to do so is an insult to all of us, not just the Ahamdinejad faction. A statement of judgement on the elections is out of order. a statement of "legitimacy" would be a laughable throwback to the worst days of the Bush Adminisration.

It's not up to Gibbs or Obama to "approve" or "disapprove" of anything. They should (and did) simply follow protocol just as they would with any other country including many friendly allies 1000X more dictatorial than IRI could hope to be.

What I find fascinating though is this inherent psychological desire of some people projecting their own biased points of view into Obama Administration. I believe the technical term in farsi is "bache nanaeh" (mama's boy)syndrome.

For anyone to "demand" verbal/rhetorical backing from the government of the United States toward Iran, it would have to mean that they consider this government as a "higher" morality able to impartially judge the situation below, and render a verdict which shall be cast in stone. This is laughable.

The British were only looking out for their own interests when they claimed Mossadegh was illegitimate. And plenty of morons accepted that back then. Not much has changed today. If there's any faint hope in moral evolution, it is the fact that Obama has at least a partial desire to stay out of other people's business.

Moral of the story

Do not vote for someone with inferiority (or superiority) complex !!!

for all the lefties.....

I predicted this level of appeasement and lack of cojones long time ago.....

liberals such as obama and that idiot carter are masters of bending over for murdering thugs such as the mullahs....

obama and that fat gibbs have displayed their ignorance in foreign policy....obama is an unexperienced rookie who will soon be witness to an even bigger fiasco...

javid iran.... 

She said Resistance, Jaleho,

not even Opposition.

Resistance.

You know what Resistance is, right?

She said 'the person who was inaugurated is the President. She did not say elected.

She chose the word Resistance.

Not Opposition. Resistance.

________________________

She chose the word 'reality', Jaleho.

Relaity.

Rosie, stop being so neurotic please!

Stop jumping up and down over meaningless stuff!! Who gives a shit who Hillary the nuke-Queen admires or hates?!!

Don't you understand that the essence of the message of both Gates and Hillary is: "We will HAVE TO deal with Ahmadinejad, and we WILL!"

Here, concentrate on what actions will be, not who says what to please a particular audience:

"Our policy remains the same and we take the reality that the person who was inaugurated today will be considered the president," Clinton told reporters in Nairobi, Kenya.

I mean, do you take a peculiar pleasure in fooling yourself?

thanks for the post Rosie

I'm glad to hear her speak out so clearly. 

For everyone. AND ESPECIALLY FOR JALEHO

Clinton's message to the traitors:

//iranian.com/main/blog/rosie-roxy-roshan/brighten-you-deserve-it

David, in spite of the three...

sources of knowledge that you listed. You are in no position to speak for Iranians whether they think this way or that way. All I'm asking that you to speak for yourself, can you do that? 

I don't know what wet firewood (hizomeh tar), as we say in Farsi, the "democrats or Obama" have sold you :)

But things are not as simplistic as you want them to be. Nothing is "closed on Iran election", ALL OPTIONS ARE ON THE TABLE! Remember?

As to those who wave their fists and yell "marg bar Aamrika", you must be really tone deaf not to realize there's not a SINGLE Iranian who goes around shouting death to US because he/she believes so! I promise you that. All those "demonstrations" are "staffed" by rent-a-crowds the regime ships to the site for TV broadcasts. I'm surprised that even you seem to believe to be actually the "voices of Iranians"!!!  Expecting "trust" to play a role in international relations is like expecting poker players to trust each other during the game!

Ostaad

My assertion about how Iranians felt about the elected leader statement is based on

Immediate reactions I had in email sent from Iran,  

Immediate reaction from Iranians inside on different internet channels

Immediate reaction from Iranians inside after the revision 

Even on Iranian.com I have not seen a news item that would attract 57 comments so far (except at time of s-election of AN) and there is also a blog that is running on this with all negative comments except a very few who regularly suck up anything that comes their way as long as its from democrats or Obama , the same ones who next day closed the chapter on Iran election

What I say about let down is very factual and based on observation and I am Iranian too.

Burden of proof is on you to show me those Iranians who thanked Obama for the statement and felt empowered by it and trust US ...even if you name the pro-AN supporters and regime, they never trusted US anyway and always shout death to US !

Obviously

I deeply respect the two people currently debating on this thread, as well as the others (with one unfortunate notable exception). I have a lot to say but not the time now. I will read and watch it unfold and for now just throw this into the mix:

//iranian.com/main/news/2009/08/05/gibbs-elected-leader-gaffe

David - Your ability to...

say things that I think are realistic, and then in the same sentence saying something utterly baseless perplexes me.

For example you posted, "So the CODE WORD elected leader was deliberate and as those in Iran
correctly observed : The damage is done already both by sending the
loud whisper to the regime despite the back peddling later, 2nd and
most importantly ONCE AGAIN letting down Iranians and loosing whatever
remaining trust that has been there." Obviously you realize there's a lot more than meet the eye in regard to Iran-US relations (I hesitate to call it "relationship" yet).

Then you go on to claim Iranians  are let down and they are losing "whatever remaining trust", etc. Have you paused and thought the US has helped the Iranian people with the suitable tools to defeat the regime's archaic PR machine? I am talking about Obama's administration asking twitter.com, a private company, to postpone their critical server upgrade and maintenance tasks, which are very critical for a high tech social networking company, in order to keep interrupted the most marvelous citizen reporting that has happened anywhere in the world since the dawn of the high tech industry. There are many other examples that I'm sure you are well aware of.

So my points are that I challenge you to produce data to indicate Iranians feel "one again" to have been let down? Which Iranians, where and what are your sources?

Also I'm curious to know your ideas about public diplomacy and realpolitik and their distinctions, if any.  

Rosie

Iran situation is a well discussed subject and sentences well selected in advance. Anyone who thinks this was just an error on Gibbs part underestimates how things are run. This was not a off the wall subject and the question was well expected and answer wascarefully pre-chosen by Obama and staff

 So the CODE WORD elected leader was deliberate and as those in Iran correctly observed : The damage is done already both by sending the loud whisper to the regime despite the back peddling later, 2nd and most importantly ONCE AGAIN letting down Iranians and loosing whatever remaining trust that has been there.

Iranians have long memory and it is moments of action that they count on, otherwise they give rats azz about what comes out everyday from loudspeakers of their own government and others

Obama has been a let down in action so far and this was the final curtain.

may be in time he comes back to what and who he was voted in by the people to present, for now it has not been America and its fundamentals but it has been the so called "US interest" (special interests).

Some may call this over-reaction but this was exactly the reaction that the White House and Obama deserved and I am glad so many Americans and Iranians flooded the White House lines and wrote up so much strong objections in such a short time!

and yes they read the news, blogs, the reactions and even Iranian.com!

See CNN Iran news desks , make it much bigger. That is what you have at state department, reading, watching and listening ! 

So YES when due, people should express and react , loud and clear and they should hold President Obama directly responsible for what comes out of White House

Better in a way, David.

the blunder forced him to articulate something he would've probably felt was better left unsaid in the volatile political situation with the inauguaration and the Stalin trials and all.

Can't wait to see how my operatives at press tv are spinning this one. They will have a field day, I am sure...

lol

reactions are coming from Iranians on new statement:

khod obama ham ye pash milangeh

vaghean khaste nabashan ishoon!!!

حالا كه ايران كلي تبليغ كرد و امريكا ضايع شد به چه دردي ميخوره ؟ خسته نباشين

چه ها این نشون میده که فشار ماها نتیجه میده پس ناامید نشید چون ناامیدی بدترین سم هست برای حرکت همه ما ها 

Good job, it is important to apologize when we make mistakes, not like Ahmadinjead sending militia out there to kill and shut down the protest! Thank You white house

Now for you, Jaleho..

I rest my case.

Thank God I don't have to actually debate you on this one,, as I long ago proclaimed and have always stood by the tenet that the only appropriate argument in response to your non-arguments is that they are not arguments. I am not going to re-track the history of your documented utter lack of basic logical reasoning here. All I am going to say is that since you love media so much, colorful language and drama and so forth, you should consider becoming a Hollywood script writer. There is a place where your passion for dramatic scenarios, mawkish sentimentality, childish reasoning and pugnacious nature and tendency toward megalomania (which will help you in the competitive aspects of the business), and catering to the lowest common denominator, could make you millions of dollars.

Why don't you start by writing a script about the cloak and dagger political scenario you just painted below, so you could then use your profits to try to make it real in some small country like, say, Tonga.

ANd then perhaps you could make yourself President and get to have lunch with Obama one day.

Exactly my point. For once Fred and I agree.

"More than DUMB statement."

It was just plain DUMB.

(With potentially cataclysmic conseuences).

Well,

I kept saying over and over that there was NO reason for that word 'elected' to be used and that it accomplished NOTHING pragmatically that just saying 'He is the prresident' would've accomplished, and that it was STUPID. Not DASTARDLY, not FIENDISH, just that it MADE NO SENSE to say it. Anyone could see the press secrretary looked like he was ready to puke on his words and I said that too. I also said it had to have been discussed beforehand. Apparently it hadn't been planned ENOUGH...that is why Vildemose noted that 'elected' seemed preferable to 'legitimate'-it was Gibb's TONE, he seemed to be trying to make a distinction between 'legitimaccy' and 'elected'. In fact the wrong word had bee used. It should've been 'inaugurated'. That is why GIbbs had the glum face and bitter tone.

I said Obama and his team must be in part reacting to a terrible predicament, which is these Stalinist show trials, I suggested he is a decent person and maybe thought by making such a declaration it would undercut the accusations of Velvet/CIA conspiracy and the purge on the Opposition, and so on...I hypothesized, whether rightly or wrongly, based on the premise that his use of the word 'elected' was STUPID and MADE NO SENSE.

Not dastardly. Not evil. Moronic.  But dangerous.

Apparently Obama agrees with me.

I am politically naive. It is my biggest asset. ISometimes I am actually right. After decades of directing theater and teaching public speaking and grading essays,

 I know a blunder when I hear it.

Many have called and faxed White House

I saw the WH numbers posted by outraged readers on different sites such as Huffington Post. Also State Department knows how to read ;-) 

"Let me correct a little bit of what I said yesterday. I denoted that Mr. Ahmadinejad was the elected leader of Iran. I would say that's not for me to pass judgment on," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters aboard Air Force One.

"He's been inaugurated. That's a fact. Whether any election was fair, obviously the Iranian people still have questions about that, and we'll let them decide about that."

Went Iranian on WH

Lot of people went Iranian on the WH forcing it to reverse its more than dumb statement.

Finally a Great News

White House reverses statement on Iran election

//www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTR...

 A lot of Iranian Americans called, my congressman said, the # was close to 2000 calls.  Great Job to all who participated.  We got them to reverse their statement.

I am going to read up the thread, and

return to the discussion. I would just like to ask you if you post something in Persian, to just include a sentence or two about what it's about.  Between my knowledge of basic Persian and my by now very detailed knowledge of the situation from doing all the news contributions, it will be more than enough. No translations or explanations necessary, just a sentence or two. I would just like to be able to follow. Thanks.

When Obama bent over to the King of Saudi

My doubts started and with this statement (bending over to IR) , it was confimed:

He is selling out Americans to the corrupt Islamists 

"Ahmadinejad is sworn in as the president " ...could have been the sentence but Obama chose "He is the ELECTED leader"

That was the code word..the bending over .,,the selling out of TWO nations :Americans and Iranians 

peace45, if you think Obama "chose" him...

then you are very az marhaleh parti, baba.  Ross is there becuase the righ wing Jewish contributors to the Democratic party wanted him there. Obama, the wise man that he is, banished him to an office in the State and gave him a report writing job just to keep him busy.

As for proving Obama's dishonesty, you have failed miserably.

NIAC is a joke and IR agent..dont take them seriously

Gibbs comment was not a gaffe but carefully structred word.  otherwise, they could have withdraw IT the next day and they have not done it.

 Folks, Iranian people are screwed now...I feel saddened for mothers and fathers who lost their loved ones in this struggle and Obama just ignored and gave the legitimacy to a regime that did not deserve.  He will regret this one...

I agree wit you on Denise Ross..but Obama chose him

you got it wrong, I am with you on Denis Ross..I was just trying to make a point in dishonesty of Obama's approach.

peace45, thanks for showing your hand...

Those who support Dennis Ross and anyone else who advocates the same philosophy in dealing with Iran are IRAN's ENEMIES, period.

You must be in very early stages of your training, otherwise you wouldn't make such a gaffe at these sensitive times by badmouthing President Obama and praising a Zionist hack who wishes sar beh taneh Iran and Iranihaa nabasheh.

Jaleho, about that "overwhelming majority of...

62%" canard that you claim the "US intel community knew", I'd like to ask you to clarify:

How do you KNOW that for sure?

Do you believe that margin was exactly what the US intel knew, or the actual figure was different?

My problem with your statement is that you seem to have bought whatever the IRI has thrown out for you to chew on. Do you have ANY verifiable sources for your information, or you're just regurgitating what the IRI puts out?

I have always maintained that Ahmadinejad's electoral win was not implausible at all, but I have NEVER even considered the 62% or anything close to it to be the correct figure. Ahmadinejad "won" his first "election" just the same way. That was a quasi-coupe by the Sepah but the margins were more "believable", especially in the context of the runoff.

This time someone jumped the gun and exposed the second qusi-coupe to the point that it has shaken the foundation of the regime.

That's Iran's win and the regime's loss. 

BTW, there's nothing wrong about dreaming. But LYING is a sin! Evne you should have known that.

Iranian regime is already spinning White House comment

Here is the link: //www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=102558&sectionid=351020101 

 It's one thing to want to engage Iran. Folks like Dennis Ross once spoke how about engagement should be carefully crafted, and conducted from a position of strength. The White House, however, seems intent on playing poker with Iran with an open hand. When the Iranian regime — especially now — craves legitimacy, why would Obama offer up what Ahmadinejad wants most for absolutely nothing in return? As unbelievable as it seems, the Obama administration appears to want to approach Iran diplomatically with as little leverage as possible.

Peace.

Peace.

peace45, which one is the left and which one is...

the right. I always thought WSJ represented the hard left and WaPost the thoughtful right. Right?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.