XVARNAH

Well

This lethal mosquito has drained a large quantity of blood out of the global Haifan Bahaim cult, even according to yourself, Anvar khanum. And my petty agenda, according to you, also managed to change the mind of the late Ayatollah Montazeri about your organization, right off of USENET too, would you believe.

There are a handful of people who, through disinformation, want to
represent the Baha’is as secretive zealots who want to take over the
world (starting from Iran & Israel!) to harm others

And every last one of these handful would be 100% correct despite what the herd consensus might believe otherwise presently.

Despite your noble intent to rehabilitate NUR, by constructive
engagement; 

Rosie's intent, as a longtime NYC AIPAC lackey of your organization, was no more than to take her personal revenge for the fact that I was responsible for sending her mind over the edge last year by, shall we say, engaging in an occultured engagement right off of the internet by telling her where she could stick it. Constructive engagement with an unhinged mind with an agenda like Rosie's is an oxymoron, especially one who answers to others and is a friendly brown-noser to your creed and organization.

But I do take partial credit for exposing the fake esoteric hateful
*Xvarnah* for what and who he really is.

No, Anvar khanum, the fact is you have not a single credible response to any argument I put forth; and more lethally, you fear me and my influence within your own community (esp. among your younger generation) and amongst the Iranian diaspora. That is the fact of the matter. Otherwise, whether on the esotericism or on the political front, I have more credibility in a single cell  of my toe than your whole organization whether in the past, present or the future.

Your observation and premise, that on occasions I have civilly engaged
Wahid, is correct.

Au contraire, mon amie. If ganging up and bait and switch argumentation by mob is your definition of civil engagement, then allow me to suggest you hit both the dictionary and a crash course in English 101.

Now I am not finished with you cultists quite yet. Whether on IC, or on various other fora, this engagement will continue until I am finally satisfied that your pernicious ideology and nefarious organizational influence no longer poses an immediate and present danger to the world and to Iran. As for myself: it matters little what happens to me in the end. I live for a much, much higher purpose, and answer to Others far more powerful than you, one of which on whose behalf is to bring down you fascists one way or another, or plant the unstoppable seed to that end! Take that to the bank with you, Anvar khanum.

!

Hey, what more is there to say?

Farr from Izadi,

this one's for you.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wH4EPTAKVw&feature=PlayList&p=680F7AF3A5E86A2C&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=2

--------------

But seriously, folks, this one's a must see. Must.No one else could express it with such passion. Not even...uuh...Forough..

Never Was

But do not despair.  The “Agency” has informed me that the responsibly to shed darkness will now be taken up by *farr-e-izad*.  (I think in all this excitement, you missed him down below.)

Anvar

Xvarnur...

is no more.

Requiescat in pace.

Anvar,

I am

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMed8ohw_Iw

(Ignore the gun. It's the only video they had).

So just this:

I have no 'aliases'. None. I was rosie was roxy was roshan. I left. I had to ask (beg) Jahanshah to close my a/c because...well, you should know. You were there last summer when.... And I didn't expect to come back. Something happened. And I did. Recently. It was supposed to be tempoprary. So I called myself roushan boodam because I can't use the old account. I changed it to Rosie. earlier today because I thought it would worth it to stay. But I am

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMed8ohw_Iw

I have no aliases. My information has always been under my a/c. And I have always been Rosie/Roshan. And I used the same yellow rose for roushan boodam and rosie. today. So anyone could see that it's me. Anyone.

But right now I am 

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMed8ohw_Iw

_________________

Nur was a complete waste of my time. And energy. And I only kept posting because of him. And I am

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMed8ohw_Iw

*Rosie*

This conversation has become a hybrid of multiple blogs and comments, but I hope this post is not too confusing for others.  It maybe somewhat disjointed.

Rosie, for you to expect people like *Gavazn* and *sag koochooloo* to have followed you over the years, and know you and your thoughts beyond your recent writings, is unrealistic and somewhat conceited and egoistic, if I may say so.  Even on this very blog, you and Wahid are posting under at least two different aliases!

Your observation and premise, that on occasions I have civilly engaged Wahid, is correct.  But you conclusion that, by objecting to him, I legitimize him is incorrect.  I delegitimize him.  This does not mean that like a child I would automatically reject chocolate ice cream just because he likes it.  But I reject anything that that has so far emanated from his own mind.  Just like the vast majority of people who reject him once they discover he’s the individual behind countless aliases.

When a “new” person writes about Love, he’ll undoubtedly attract others and earns credibility.  Once he’s attracted a few people to his gallery, admiring his paintings, then he starts spewing his baseless accusations and venomous attacks.  If you remember our old conversation (on a self-deleted blog by dismayed Zartoshtis who’d made a video supporting the green movement), you may recall that I never supported blocking accounts.  But I do take partial credit for exposing the fake esoteric hateful *Xvarnah* for what and who he really is.

Here’s an example of how I tried to enjoy some “chocolate ice cream” in one of his blogs.  See how quickly he turns a potentially beautiful blog, about a wonderful artist and his delightful music, into yet another hateful anti-Baha’i thread:
//iranian.com/main/blog/zulfiqar110/omar-...

Despite your noble intent to rehabilitate NUR, by constructive engagement; you must realize, and accept, that others view the supposed nonchalant strollers throughout the gallery as the enablers and legitimizes of the (con) “artist.”  

There are a handful of people who, through disinformation, want to represent the Baha’is as secretive zealots who want to take over the world (starting from Iran & Israel!) to harm others.  And I’m telling you that there are many people who WANT to believe that garbage when they hear it or read it!  You personally have been fortunate enough to have learned many things in your life.  However, do not assume that all the Iranians, or Egyptians, or… wear the same Rosie-colored glasses.   :- )

Ask yourself why, despite obvious ideological differences, I respect most of the self-proclaimed Muslims, Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, Marxists, Agnostics, Atheists, etc. here on IC?  I respect, and learn from, differing opinions and want to get along with everyone.  Wahid is a sworn and potentially harmful enemy of individual Baha’is and I will always peacefully reject his opinions, expose his petty agenda, and shed light on his darkness.  (So that there’s no misunderstanding: He’s a mosquito to the global Baha’i Faith – just possibly harmful to Baha’i families in Iran.)

Anvar

Okay, Sag, I just read your last post. I'm sorry too. PS

Yes, there really IS an important issue here about blocking procedures and their consistency in general. And I will read your long post throroughly. It needs to be discussed. But to have a productive discussion about it, Nur must be ignored.

I'm going to delete some of my posts to you now not to give a bad impresson of you.

Tomorrow I'll throw out a couple of ideas about blocking in general (with specific references when necessary to The Strange and Extraordinary Case of Wahid Azal.

ps Sorry, can't delete one of them. Someone must've clicked on 'Reply'.

I RETRACT EVERYTHING BAD I SAID TO SAG.

Nur is toxic and he drives people insane.He is a WASTE of time and  imho he should be IGNURED.

a p.s. to (and about) Nur...

About Nur's blocking: I still believe as a freedom of speech issue that no one who's been a member of long standing should have their account deleted. It should be closed but left open for viewing. I still believe that a member of long standing should be blocked probationary bases rather than permanently. But there's a limit. I DID believe it still applied to Nur because of ideas and interests we'd shared in a positive way. My feeling about it now? I couldn't care less.

To Nur:Nur, all you ever wind up doing here is confirm that all your ideas about the Bahai are WRONG. Even ones that might have a grain of truth. That's ALL you ever do. Maybe Jahanshah let you come back so soon to convey a subtle message that he doesn't even want to bother blocking you again. To bother clicking on the button. I'm not a mind reader. But it well could be.

Tell the devil I send my regards.

---------------

khaamoosh

"...They are sheep..."

Xernavah or far from Izadi

you are talking about your own mom and paa

Do they use drugs too? 

Rosie

Please read my post - I apologised if I upset you. And told the reason for my reaction, you gave me that impression with your remarks. I explained to you why, please go back read your remarks and see the impression they give. Look, this is what negative energies do to people and the atmosphere. It creates conflict. You do not have to accept it but I mean it sincerely.

Sorry, Nur, we cross-posted. (Anvar)

Okay fine, Nur. No point in my wasting my time on you anymore then. They are right about you. Not that Sag is right in the way she treated me, Far from. But I just washed my hands of you. Not that you care, but I do. So I had to say it clearly.

Anvar, I'm still going to read the exchange between you and Nur very carefully because it interests me. But I won't be commenting.

Sag...

Sag, I don't know how to make myself clearer. I wrote a post to Anvar about several pointsl. I wrote a very nice, polite section to you saying you had misinterpreted Sophia about entheugens. You came back with a hostile, belittling post to me--and worst of you didn't even seem to have READ what I said to you. I answered it. You came back with a long reply that opened with this verbal diarrhea thing. told you. Fix your first short post so it AT LEAST makes sense before I read the new one. Now there is a new one from you. I scanned it. It doesn't DO that. I haven't read it.

Because I had to sh-t my latest verbal diarrhea on the Xrvaneh/Nur Blocking thread. Thank God Faryarm was there to give me toilet paper.

-----------------

To anyone reading this: I didn't do anything wrong. If I lost my temper it's because I was provoked. No judgement agreeing or disagreeing with me on that can be made without at least SCANNING the whole exchange with Sag starting with my post called 'Anvar'. Otherwise, no judgement is fair.

_________________

That second part wasn't for you, Rea. I have barely had an interaction with you here, and now after this I don't care what you think of me. But just for fun, for your OWN fun, you might like to go back to Iroonman's current thread on Protests that you and I are both on, and post the exact same thing there you just did to me here on it. Just a suggestion.

______________________

I'll stay on this thread to make some comments about entheugens and to compare and ask questions to Nur and Anvar about their underying concepts about 'Enlgihtenment' (for lack of a better word). As I had originally planned. Probably tomorrow. It's very important to me but I'm tired.

Omnibus

@Anvar: What is your evidence that I provided information to the IRI? If you're talking about my exposes on USENET, then that information was provided to the whole world publicly not just to the IRI. But there is published evidence that you people have sold information to the IRI for cash per the Indian spy scandal case of 2006. What do you say to that?

@Rosie: my opinion of you is further reinforced by the utter drivel you call analysis. You are as clueless as they come. And do not attribute your own paranoia and NY skull-screwed mind  and mentality on to others. And don't talk spirituality with me either.

Do I think all Bahaim should be smoked? No. Average mom and pop Bahaim are victims. They are sheep. Brainwashed and clueless morons. But Bahaim leaders and operatives, yes, absolutely. They should be hunted down and smoked to powder, every last dirty, corrupt, stinking one of them. But first they should be tried in extensive publically televized trials meticulously detailing all their crimes and only then hanged!

SK: screw all contrived authority. I am proudly a Green Anarchist! I have no respect for any contrived human authority anywhere. If you are a servile and demure sheepling to authority, that is your problem -- and it is a problem. I am not. My authority comes from myself and the Spirit. Period!

kookoloo, kookoloo

Do not give up on IC, pls.

Rosie, let Iranians deal with it. If you can ad a comment or two, fine. If not, cut the crap.

Rosie

My post was clear.  I am against drugs and those who promote them. I am also against hate. I do not like ambiguity with regards to either. I have experience of treating those affected by drugs and also my family has been affected by bahai murders in Iran. So these are both personal topics for me. When I see even remotely someone trying to trivialise either, I speak out. It is not because I am an agent or a bahai. I am an atheist, although I am always labelled Sag Bahai here.

What I want to say is I apologise if I have offended you, it is not in my nature to be rude. But some of the behaviour on this website and hypocrisy displayed by individuals has driven me to this. No excuse, but I am just quoting my reason for appearing direct. You are entitled to approve certain substances etc, I am not taking freedom of choice from anyone, but I do not approve of misinformation - some are ok, some are good for spirituality, some are etc.  -  I know children read this website and it is of concern to me. This is why my reaction is strong.

I think what I need is time out of this website.

I do not misunderstand Sophia's comment about entheugens. I know about them and know the type of people who take them.

Sorry, Sag

mazarat mikhaaham.

(Original text deleted)

kookoloo, kookoloo moj ;o)

Glad to hear you're woman, women are missing on IC.

There was a lovely lady when I first joined the site.  @asteroid, or so, her (user) name was.

I'm off this thread, negative vibes. Until further reading. ;))

Rea

gender is not important with me, but values. FYI I am female.

Gavazn was right when he said this is an unhealthy place. Look at the level of hate permitted here, to those that have lost family by bahai haters. We have to click on this website and see such persons calling for bahai death again and again. We are expected to ignore it, but cannot. When we try kindness it is rejected. Then we try and try reason, it is rejected. Then we are out of our minds with despair and frustration. Being called the most foul things, the person being blocked again and again, but being immedaitely allowed to return to do the same. Then some individuals come in at the last moment and tell us "oh it's not THAT bad what he does, he is a genius and a smart guy"! And we are supposed to sit there AGAIN taking the same abuse while watching people fawning on this guy. I thought I would join an Iranina website to watch news, events, etc and politics but am confronted with bigotry which is allowed to continue. What a shame.

...

What you do is not say anything new Rosie. I  find your sudden appearance on Nur’s blogs once he was blogged suspect. You have not been there to play fair when he was abusing people, people have wounds defending bahais against slander and some the b*lls to challenge this guy, but you only appeared once he was blocked, and you gave those people a hard time. Now I do not think that is being fair and impartial.

You are “interpreting” Sophia’s remark to me, which was manipulation of my appreciation of an artist who happens to take whatever substance Nur is promoting. I think that is out of order. You did quote famous people who have used drugs and said that Nur did not support use of opium. SO that's OK then! A great justification for taking substances.

 Anvar has told you that NUR provided info to IRI but you still insist that the guy is not a menace and no danger whatsoever. You are acting like an apologist for this guy and trivializing his level of abuse on bahais. Either you are naïve or dishonest. Forgive me in being direct  with you but I have no respect for those that behave this way, especially where hate propaganda and human life is concerned.

With regards to JJ, JJ is authority. With regards to the Haifan Organisation that is Authority.

What I meant about the Bahai thing being a red herring was that I think he would have disagreements with most people/ instituations that do not agree with him or do not accept his behavior when he is out of line. He has difficulty adjusting and accepting other's views. It happens to be in this case a Bahai ordganisation. You can see what he does to people that criticize him or challenge him, he posts rubbish about them on the net too. Same reaction, same response.

This is not about taking sides on football teams, but LIFE. It is also about people having been abused by this guy and people like you coming in and trying to make it as if it does not matter. Well it does. It is obvious you admire this person, if you want to see his blogs there are other avenues. But do not expect people like US who have been here defending bahais against abuse to accept your apologist behaviour. 

"Verbal diarrhea"

My post to Anvar is very long because it contains three sections, one more to him and Sag, one more specifically to him, and the last one more to Nur. As such it is really three posts.

My post to Sag is very long because unfortunately it comes easier and quicker to me to write a lot than to be succinct. To be succinct I have to both proceed very slowly while writing and spend a LOT of time editing down. That is how my brain is wired.

Although I feel Sag's 'little' post to me opening with her musing on my  verbal diarrhea in my post to Anvar is so loaded that it needs a very thorough reply, I feel it does not merit my putting hours of time and effort into it. And so it is long, Sag..

So long, Sag.

Sag,

My sincere apolgies.

(Original text deleted)

I know a lady

"catholic taliban" I call her.

She also has visions, i.e. Jesus is talking to her, he loves her. She is also an artist, painter, good one at that. How much of it is ayahuasca I dunno.

@kookoloo, is that how you talk to the ladies ? Ajj, ajj. ;o)

Rosie

Do not imply to be a great artist or to enhance creativity chemicals are required. That is rubbish and hippie nonsense. I do not care who you quote and what you claim this man supports, to approve drug culture. 

And for you to say “Obviously you had some bad experiences with some Bahai",

have you ever thought there may be a possibility that it may be the other way round? Perhaps the Bahais had a bad experience with this guy? How does this man behave with Authority and when his views are challenged? Is he objective? Is he fair? Bahai thing in my opinion, is a red herring. This guy has an attitude problem that manifests in many things.

Okay, Anvar, you asked for it... :o) (edited at the end)

 (cross-posted with the last several posts...)

Somewhere inside of all this are the roots of a normal conversation going on where people are exchanging ideas and information in the hopes of building bridges. Some things people even agree on. This is a very positive thing. Even more than positive.

Sag, my interpretation of what Sophia said was simply that it should not be rejected out of hand that certain psychoactive drugs are necessarily bad, and that they can even be very good at enhancing the mind's capabilities and human creativity in a positive way.

This was misinterpreted, even twisted, by Sag, probably unintentionally. Although I am sure, Nur, that you think it was intentional. but even supposing you are right, calling someone a moron in the subject line will not endear other readers to you and your ideas. Why do you keep shooting yourself in the foot? If you stay here there must be a reason, surely it is not to sabatoge yourself. You say you want to discredit the Bahai yet over and over it is proven that here all you wind up doing is discredit yourself.

(Now no one twist what I just said. I did not say I agree with Nur, or that I want to discredit the Bahai, and I am not his 'groupie' and I don't have my head up his a-s. I have been here a very long time and people who know me know that I am the last person who 'follows' anyone or becomes infatuated with anyone else's ideas). 

The twisting in the case of Sophia's comment, Sag, was that it was misinterpeted to say that psychoactives are necessary for every artist to be creative, that everyone should use them to be creative, that you have to be a strong proponent of it, etc., Sag, All it said to ME was that they can be good, that they are not inherently bad. And plus, Sag, the analogy with murderers not only had no relevance at allm, the word murderer gives an association to Sophia's point that is completely unfair and beyond negative. It 'imprints' many readers' minds with this association. Anyhow, Sag, Caravaggio is one artist. There are many artists who have used all kinds of drugs to enhance their creativity. Including opium, very popular, whole artistic movements revolved around opium. There is Coleridge, Baudelaire and Lautreamont.I believe opiates are no stranger to modern Persian musicians. And Nur doesn't even approve of opiates!

Now you may say okay maybe I did twist a little without meaning to but Nur twists more and in worse ways and he does it constantly. This may be so, but maybe if you were careful  not to he might follow suit. Anyway I'm sure you don't mean to do it. So it shouldn't happen.

___________________________

Now on to you specificially, Anvar. My response here will combine thoughts on both your posts here and on the other thread, as well as others' posts. You chided me (to say the least) for voicing any kind of support for Nur at all, for dialoguing with him on any ideas whatsoever, etc. Yet at the same time, snydeness aside (and I'm not blaming you for being snyde), by laying out your responses to Nur clearly about his spiritual ideas and challenging him in civil fashion, you are also 'legitimizing' him as it were.

The difference between your legitimization and mine is that yours comes specifically by debating him on the superiority of Bahai spirituality (and its techniques, such as denial of entheugens for being bad), whereas my legitimization of him comes from both challenging his attitude and actions toward the Bahai AND expressing my support of some of his views on gnosticism as well as his talent.

Anvar, you are not talking about the correlation between Nur's behavior toward the Bahais--his obsession, his violent language, his doing this all over the Internet--and Nazi tactics right now. You are just debating him about religious philosophy and practice--dualism, use of psychotropics etc.But when I say Nur stop obsessing on this Bahai crap of yours and focus on more productive things, according to you I must compare him to the Nazis and stifle him.

Then on top of it, well, you spent a lot of time addressing me on the other blog (again I thank you, and you know I am a friend), so presumably you read my posts to Nur on the other thread as carefully as you responded to me.

So you spent a long time on your post responding to (all of) mine, so presumably either you are familiar with 'The Thunder, Perfect Mind' and if not you googled it and read it, there are hundreds of hits. (It is a Coptic gnostic poem about the Goddess discovered at Nag Hammadi). Presumably you read my poem which I linked for him to read.

If you did, it would be clear to you that in many ways this new blog Nur wrote is in response to my questions. I asked, does your idea of gnosis ONLY include the sensual or could it also be the aescetic? The answer, as I understood from this blog, is that the very question is irrelevant. (That would also be the answer in certain strands of Buddhism, especially Tibetan).

It would also be clear, Anvar, that my own spiritual struggles have had to do with a certain path I feel I was propelled onto beyond my control in which what is now called by some 'Endarkenment' for certain people is a necessary component toward Enlightenment. So I am a shadow/tree person. I admire Bahaullah greatly (at least what I read of him, and BTW I LOVED your first post here!...), but that's only part of my story .

Why is it only okay to debate Nur extensively civilly (thus legitimizing him) only to challenge him (btw with specific Bahai ideas) and not to challenge some, support others?

When I engage Nur he rails at me and rails at me (the things he said to me about being Jewish at first and then narrowing it down to New York Jews) were just as bad as the things he says about Bahai (in fact he equates us in many ways, and says we work together on our agenda...). But he also steps out of the hate diatribes to give me something positive and beautiful for me i(and for others, who HAVE expressed interest and yes, even affinity for this type of expression on other blogs of his).

Nur is not sitting on some judicial committee somewhere in IRI convincing Larijiani to hang more Bahais. He is sitting here on iranian.com, which once you step in here you know you are in Bahai country. Why? Because as you may know, Javid wrote the seminal Iranian article defending the Bahai several years ago

//iranian.com/JahanshahJavid/2002/July/Bahai/index.html

and this day continues to write blogs called such things as 'I Am a Bahai Too'. And obviously the readership of any publication veers toward the publishers' viewpoint at least loosely.

Nur is here where almost exclusively he meets with indignation and ridicule. If there isn't more of it, it's because most people ignore him by now. Last year even Faryarm and Tahiri encouraged me to do so. (Faryarm did NOT resusciiate that open letter froml last year, Nur, someone else did. Faryarm did not want it resuscitated, he basically said so on the thread). Nur is no danger here to the Bahai cause. If anything he is an asset.

No, Anvar, no Bahai's life, liberty or pursuit of happiness in IRI or anywhere else is threatened by the way I engage Nur here. None. Especially no one accepts Nur's anti-Bahaism here because I engage him because I don't either and I challenge him on it every step of the way as part of my engagement. No Hitler will emerge to stick Bahai in gas chambers because I ask Nur what he thinks about some ancient Coptic poem and he replies with a gnostic musing of his own.

And if I don't always call his anti-Bahai rants horrific and disgusting (check my second post on the other thread(, if I sometimes call them stupid and silly (just like the anti-Semitic gunk he hurls at me), it's because here they are.

Did I say in that post that it's one thing to question Bahai organizational structure and tactics and another to spew hate speech at an oppressed minority? Yes. Did I say if Juan Cole has criticisms they can't be discarded out of hand too? Yes (Juan Cole is a highly esteemed political thinker for MANY people here). Yes. Does that mean I agree with Juan Cole? No. Does that mean I stand by anyone's wishing to argue his point of view here as a free speech issue on a free speech forum as long as there is no hate speech? Yes. Is any religion or organization beyond criticism and improvement? No.

Do you disagree with any of my assertions in the last paragraph and if so, please tell me why.

______________________-

Finally I spent more time here challenging you, Anvar, and Sag, than Nur and Sophia because they (and pretty much everyone here) already know what I think about their railings against the Bahai and their 'lawsuite' and god knows what else.

And finally finally Anvar :o), as regards the Holocaust analogy and the danger of Nur disseminating Bahai hate speech as long as they are persecuted in Iran, is something I have been thinking about anyway. I had planned to discuss this with Nur as the next step, after we had continued  more the friendly discussions we started last year on spiritual matters before I left, so more trust was built  

But although I think posting the Graveyards of Iran video so early on I think I did this IMplicitly, I will do it again.

Nur, I KNOW you do not want people to be denied citizenship based on religious belief (EVEN IF YOU ARE RIGHT AND THEY ADVOCATE KILLING OTHES???????--I doubt it--they should be tried AS CITIZENS). Nur, you mainly complain about the Haifan Bahai, I KNOW you don' see ALL Bahai the same way. Nur, I KNOW you are anti-IRI. When you legitimize persecution against one group they persecute by extension you legitimize it all. You do, and I KNOW you are smart enough to understand this.

Nur, this kind of hate speech is VERY dangerous right now. I KNOW you don't want Faryarm or Anvar or Tahirih or Sag or Gavazn or even good ol' Aftabeh to die, or go to prison or be tortured or denied citizenry anwhere.

So cut the crap, will you? Anyway you will never be happy until you do. Obviously you had some bad experiences with some Bahai yet now, as I said before, they still own you body and soul, more than before, because you live and breathe them every day. Because you LET them. Because you don't WANT to let go.

Recoil into yourself, Nur, and meditate long enough and verily you will know that it is true, and move on. Criticize the organization, the tactics (even denounce it if you must) but leave behind the hate.

Let it go, Nur. Let's move on. 

***

So, Nur, do you think the poet of The Thunder, Perfect Mind may have used entheugens? As you probably know there is evidence of at least some use of them at Nag Hammadi.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhQKvqDEPUs

Lotus is my favourite

As for the rest, go join hands little ones. ;o)

Yes, I do

Because the people you are thinking of produce nothing in this world other than to perpetuate the cycle of corruption and lies and BS, i.e. the negative darkness. Indeed they should all collectively go jump, and you along with them!

The entheogenic community, on the other hand, produce hope, they work for the reconstruction of the natural world and ecosystem that you consensus reality people have destroyed. We are helping Gaia and the future generations of humans, animals and plants who will inhabit it. You people produce nothing but the same old, same old, so you should all go and jump, indeed!

Tough titties if you don't like to hear that!

Perhaps you should take some free speech yourself

You feel it is acceptable to go round telling people they should die because they are of a certain religion that is not to your liking. Then turn around and say "sitting around judging and characterizing individuals who partake of these sacraments ". Well mate, that is MY opinion of the likes of you. You are a KHOROFATI. How does it feel?

Whether you wear a certain cloak and annoint yourself with whatever, take whatever to have a "trip". What I have said is if that is what you want to do, go ahead and do it. Why not accept others?

I believe in Evolution BUT ACCEPT WITH RESPECT other people's views. But I certainly want you to know my opinion of yours, since you go round websites rubbishing other people's ideas and wishing death on them.

Everything affects the body and brain, but you are using these chemicals for a certain purpose which in my opinion is misguided. No need for rambling speeches. Tough luck if you do not like the truth.

Grow up

The difference between you and I is that I can appreciate a good piece of Art for the talent of an artist, but you appreciate the Art to justify taking drugs. Anvar has already answered your childish argument. It's no longer "cool" to do ANY type of drug, however you  present it, whatever terminology. And if indeed you are a Wise prophet (I can't belive I am saying this) why would you need chemicals to get nearer to God? You know, I have more respect for people who say I need to take drugs because I like getting high. Then you can discuss on a rational basis, they are being honest.  Drugs (whatever name you want to give them) are chemical that affects you brain. You do not get nearer to God, that is just khorafat. If you like taking them, then take them. Tripping with your friends and running k**n berehneh round a fire. If that is what you like doing, then do it.

But do not expect people to accept that kind of lifestyle and encourage their kids to take it up. Do not patronise people and say it is for the benefit of mankind. Or that it raises the IQ - you and your behaviour/ responses are the worse ad for these type of drugs. What they have proven is that they do not raise EQ.

Well, then, don't do illicit drugs!

But I am not talking about illicit drugs. Potheads or entheogenists are not illicit drug users and entheogens are not drugs, as I have just explained to you with reason and argument. And no one is putting a gun to your head to do any of these sacraments either. Your choice. It's a free universe so long as you don't imprison your own mind.

That you are this stupid and irrational that you compare the sacramental use of entheogens to taking cynide, attempting suicide by slashing your wrists or putting your fingers in an electric socket, says volumes about the depth of your closed mind and how the insidious ideology you subscribe to is actually responsible for that. Then again, if you want to remain in your self-imposed, perpetual mental and spiritual prison, who am I to want to bring you out of it? Bemoon to zendaanet taa joon az maa-tahtet dar beeyaad! I simply made a suggestion to you  to have an experimental try because unless you have first hand experience of these sacraments, you have no idea what they are or what they can do. It is just like sex/lovemaking for the first time. Unless you have had it, you really don't know what it is. People can masturbate, but intensely passionate lovemaking sex with someone you truly love is on a whole quantum level beyond masturbation, as I am sure you would agree. I don't cite this example to be crude or vulgur. I cite it so you have a clear-cut, concrete, this-worldly example to fall back on as an experiential reference point in your own mind. Dig? The sacramental use of entheogens is just like this. Partying with illicit drugs and approaching entheogens as divine sacraments is like the difference between masturbation or simple no-attachment fucking versus real lovemaking sex with your physical beloved whom you adore! It is this simple. And BTW, before you accuse me of anything, in my world sex is the highest form of divine worship that exists!

That said, pity you don't have the cajones to figure things out for yourself and on your own terms. Oh well! That's what these fear-based religious cults do to people, cutting them off from even the curiosity to experience things the Good Lord has placed in this world as Gifts from Heaven. In short, cutting people off from Life itself and the Living God(dess) Who animates all of it!