In Iranian culture marriage is not about love. Marriage is more about stability, security and productivity. Both men and women in our culture are getting married in order to raise a family. Be fruitful and multiply is the motive. To do so they do not really pay attention in what they want but rather what is good for the children that they are going to have.
Most Iranian women are looking for a man who is financially secure and can afford raising a family (basically it can be translated to a Doctor) and Iranian men are looking for a girl who is young so she can bear children (by young I mean someone in her teens to early 20s regardless of the man's age).
In Iranian khastegaree style marriage, a woman wouldn't even let in a khastegar into her house if he is not for e.g a doctor or an engineer and the man wouldn't even go to see a girl who is not young. Of course, there is always exception to the rule but here I am talking about the norms ... In general this type of marriage has been working out but God only knows at whose expenses!!!
Most of couples in this type of marriage think as love as a responsibility. Since they are responsible people then their marriages are working. Furthermore as long as the wealth and the children are protected and are being taken care of then they are happily married. Their marriage is more of a business than anything else. Good for them .....
But not everyone can put up with this and call it a marriage. I believe to fall in Love should be THE only requirement for the union of two persons not a responsibility that you are going to acquire after you get married. I believe one should know what it is that he or she wants and sees in the opposite sex before one gets married. But how is this even possible in a culture that roots for gender apartheid? ……. How can you really fall in love with someone who you are not even allowed to talk to?
A marriage should have nothing to do with raising the family and having kids otherwise the end result is not a happy one especially when the kids are all grown up and the married couple have to spend the rest of their lives alone with each other while they have nothing in common and they do not share any similar interests………. They did not take the time to know each other before the marriage and they were both busy raising the family that they never had time to do so afterwards. These couples are not going to be good companions yet alone good lovers because to fall in love was not in the picture to begin with. Yes, they may stay together and yes they kind of adore each other but like a brother and sister ... they are just so used to be with each other...... you get the picture...
National Geographic has an interesting article about the chemical actions in our bodies that define "love." What we call falling in love creates a dopamine imbalance that is akin to being on certainaddictive drugs. However, that eventually levels off within 12-18 months and we start to develop a mellower oxytocin (also somewhat addictive) response to ourmates. I agree that the more stable oxytocin responses the more possible it is for us to deal with the problems of life together and remain committed. ……. But love is a drug that we need to constantly inject into the marriage and if you have never had that drug injected in your veins to begin with what is it that you have in order to keep the passion alive? Ofcourse nothing ... passion? Which passion?
In this type of marriage one may say that he or she is happily married but if they spend a day alone with each other they are going to be bored to death and if they talk they are going to just fight over minor things.
To fall in Love is the spice of life ... Something that is missing in most marriages within the Iranian community. Again all thanks to our culture and to a religion that is mixed with this culture and to clergies that have no idea what love is and have always warned us of devil. And what is more evil than to spend some time alone with the opposite sex. Sadly, their warnings have been even more harsh towards women. But that double standard by itself requires a separate blog to write about.
Mottahari in his book “ The Phylosophy of Hejab “ states that women are looking to be loved but they are not looking for falling in love "
I should sue Mottahari and any other clergy for even willing to write on behalf of a woman yet alone writing about her feelings ……
As John keats beautifully says:
There is a holiness to the heart's affections you know nothing about!
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Yolanda
by Soosan Khanoom on Thu Aug 04, 2011 07:57 AM PDTYou should know that more than any thing else Shah married for the reason of breeding ...
What's love got to do .. got to do with it ... ok I am not going to sing the song
anyway ...
The story goes like this ......
Once upon a time there was a king who wanted a boy ....
Fouzieh did not give him
Surayeh could not give him
Farah did
Thanks God , otherwise he wouldn't be stopping there and would be going and going and going .....
Now the existing problem is worse than having a son ...... we need to give back to this king his kingdom .. LOL
MG and radius-of-the-persian-cat
by Soosan Khanoom on Thu Aug 04, 2011 07:44 AM PDTMG,
Thanks for the links .....hmmm free love .... It actually make sense ... a lot of sense ... but there are some tiny issues with it ... we can discuss it later ... by the way the communists did not get it either. It is like going from one extreme to another ....
Radius-of-the-persian-cat thanks for your insightful and accurate observation of this situation .... I enjoyed reading your argument ....
I should add that when the couples are truly in love then they can provide a much more stable house for the kids ....
Mohammad
by Soosan Khanoom on Thu Aug 04, 2011 07:30 AM PDTI have also heard that American men are trying to stay away from American women .... Well they are men and they are still looking for submissive women. I think they can only be satisfied marrying a robot cause it does as these men wish .....
Stepford wife .... LOL
Amir
by Soosan Khanoom on Thu Aug 04, 2011 07:20 AM PDTThanks for your comments. I should,however, say that this culture of ours was there before Islam .... Zoroastrian clerics were no better in crucifying love for the sake of the business of marriage ...
Qrang
by Soosan Khanoom on Thu Aug 04, 2011 08:20 AM PDTYour points are all well taken ......
It is so true , When it comes to love and passion in our culture we are just ending up with our poets .....
Sadly, that even this has been taken away from us .... look at all the passinate love poems of Hafez and the fact that religious figures are trying to force feed us that he wrote it all for God ...... oh come on ..... hafez was drunk with the love of a girl called " Nabat "
It is true that he wrote some honest poems about the spiritual love... but how can anyone find about the spiritual love or God without first experiencing the love on earth ?
We are not bunch of priest or nun and our religion did not even asked us to be ... what is it that clergies are so afraid of the sensual love and anyone who talks about it?
Passion and sensual love is something that has given Persian poetry its beautiful existence but again as you mentioned it it is only limited to our poets ....
comments
by Soosan Khanoom on Thu Aug 04, 2011 07:03 AM PDTThe shape and figure of someone does not make you fall in love with that person ...NO WAY ... that is not true for both men and women ......
to fall in love is more about quality ..... the fact that this person shares similar interests with you ..... even love at first sight if you look deeper and research is more than just how the person looks ....
Quite contrary, what you are bringing up is number one reason that men are getting married khastergari style in Iran .....
I want this height, this weight, and this look..... now let us go shopping ..
LOL
Faramrz .. Excellent Observations ..
by Soosan Khanoom on Thu Aug 04, 2011 06:54 AM PDTthat's pretty much it .... I bet the last group are the ones that actually fell in love before marriage or were lucky enough to fall in love afterwards !
Love & Marriage, Horse & Carriage!
by Faramarz on Thu Aug 04, 2011 06:49 AM PDTThe problem of love and marriage is not limited to the Iranians or our culture. It is universal.
Looking around me, I see three types of marriages that have lasted beyond the usual 7 to10-year breaking point.
There are couples who are in the “average” marriages where they are still fighting and arguing and trying to change each other. But because of the kids or lack of alternatives, they are still married to each other. They are not happy with their marriages and they make sure that everyone around them knows about it. And it is always the other party that is to blame! These couples are the most fun to talk to at the parties!
Then there are the “successful” marriages where the couples have lowered their expectations significantly and have completely given up and accepted their faith. The couples in this scenario are like roommates or two people in a small boat in the big ocean. They need each other and are completely dependent on each other. These couples are the most boring ones in the parties.
Finally, there are the “unusual” marriages where the couples are actually friends and talk to each other and seem to be happy to be around each other. You don’t see too many of this kind of marriages. Friendship, similar interests and a genuine understanding of one another are the corner stone of this type of marriage. These people are the ones that you want to take a picture with at the parties!
I support Iranian style in some extent.
by comments on Thu Aug 04, 2011 06:18 AM PDTThe first question: What's love? A possible answer:
"What we call falling in love creates a dopamine imbalance that is akin to being on certainaddictive drugs."
Some people fall in love once a month, some once every 2 years and etc. Love is similar to sex. One turns on with a sexual structure of another person, the other (or the same individual) falls in love with the structure (mainly emotional structure) of that person. We have sex addicts and we have love addicts.
It's not too hard to fall in love, but it's really hard to stay in love. What keeps partners together is "stability, security and productivity".
Ahhhhhh Love, my favourite 4 letter word.
by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on Thu Aug 04, 2011 03:49 AM PDTSure beats chador and shalagh if your hair is showing.
Iranian culture pre islam is one thing... respects men and women as having equal worth and teaches about love and friendship.
Even Hafez, celebrated Irans preislamic culture, while he was post islamic, he wrote all of his love poems in the language of irans scholars so no muslim would know the poems real meanings and his constant ridicule and humiliation of islam.
Iranian culture post islam... well its enough to give you a thorough es-haal for a month, by which time you'll forget about love and only want to stop the pain.
Among our non islam following iranians our culture and love life is fine, sadly this represents a minority of Iran,
This lack of true iranian culture among most iranians is partly why we don't even have a noble unelected king ruling our nation, when the late king loved and gave without condition, but had to leave when his love was met with out decency, but lies and hatred.
Love and Marriage ...
by Orang Gholikhani on Thu Aug 04, 2011 03:14 AM PDTIt is not only an Iranian matter of discussion.
In Europe traditions have been the same as in Iran in the past. Marriage was standard alliance between 2 famillies done for stability and economical reasons and Love have been a matter for poets. Euope has Romeo & Julliette and we have Lely & Majnoon or Khossro & Shirine.
Only in 20 century , we started speaking about Marriage for Love in Europe and mentelities have evolved since.Now we are speaking about Gay Marriage in 21 century.
The differnce is that Iranian mentalties backward to 10 century and Europe is Forwarding.
Regards.
Orang
The romantic love is common human nature
by radius-of-the-persian-cat on Thu Aug 04, 2011 02:53 AM PDTDear Mohhamad Ala,
Your statement " Love has been a major part of Iranian culture " and its reference to persian poetry, music, paintings etc. clearly relates to the romantic idea of love, which is a common archetype in all human cultures. It is not only the by far richest source of arts, culture and philosophy, but nowaday even used (or abused) in the advertising industry and tabloid press (just remember the unbearable media-hype around the recent royal or celebrity marriages in the UK and Monaco).
The relationship between men and woman that form the foundation of a family are different and completely unromantic. As Soosan Khanoom pointed it out, it has much more to do with responsibility, prosperity and stability. And therefore it is neither a big source for cultural reflections nor for the advertising industry, but it is a big issue in politics. People who live in a stable family, with the feeling of beeing (mainly economically) responsibel for each other and for the kids are much easier to control and are much less willing to take risks or to uprise against the political system. Therefore, the idea of free love (i.e. love liberated from its economic, social and political context) was always an issue of liberation movements. Alexandra Kollontai tried to integrate this into marxism (although Karl Marx and Freidrich Engels themself very clearly described the family as the foundation of each society). Anti-catholic protestantism got rid of the idea that a marriage is gods-will and can not be divorced by people themself. The tradition of arranged marriages in some cultures (including the iranian) is probably the most extreme example of how love between two person can be instrumentalized for the sake of economic benefit. If there would not be a social or financial discrimination of single men or woman, living on their own with or without children in long- or short lasting relationships, than Love as a major part of our ALL culture would have a greater chance.
In my very own experience, however, for kids in their childhood it is definitly better if they live in a "stable" traditional family, with a dad and a mom around (not necesarrily the biological parents). But maybe this is also just because kids grow up with all the fairy-tale pictures of mother, father, kids.
PS: I am married since 20 years and have a son. All our friends say we live in big harmony. But it is because we are pretty tolerant to each other.
..........
by yolanda on Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:41 PM PDTWow! What a shocking blog! So in your opinion, they marry for the sake of reproduction only! Are you sure it is true?
Shah and Soraya were in love, right? even though they did not have any kids! Too bad that the lady was infertile; they had to divorce each other!
According to wikipedia:
After the divorce, the Shah, who had told a reporter who asked about his feelings for the former Queen that "nobody can carry a torch longer than me".......
thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Free Love and one of its advocates: Alexandra Kollontai
by Mash Ghasem on Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:39 PM PDT//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandra_Kollontai#S...
An interesting historical figure. Pay close attention to her idea of Free Love, cheers
Free love//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_love
"Love" has been a major part of Iranian culture.
by Mohammad Ala on Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:47 PM PDTThere are different philosophies in marriage which is not unique to us. For example, an American colleague who married twice never wanted to marry an American woman. The wave of American men (not only white) coming to China says something about American women. I know several people whose life style is to spend all their money. They believe if there is less money, no one can sue them (which is different than Iran). Iran cannot be compared to itself especially when married couples settle in other countries, for example USA and Canada where most of marriages have ended up in divorce. There are other factors which you did not mention. For example, as Iranians we care for our relatives, especially our parents which add to marriage complications. Many of us care for our food, music, and respect for elderly regardless of where we live.
In my view: marriage (with or without children) is about respecting our culture and not taking an advantage of the other partner, otherwise, marriage can fall apart. There is no reason to stay together and fight over what is important to each partner.
"Love" has been a major part of our culture. This is evident in our poems, drawings, music, etc.