Striking Iran


Striking Iran
by rosie is roxy is roshan

No, not that kind of strike. This kind of strike.  Some of you are probably surprised. That is my whole point. Please bear with me. Succinctness is not my virtue and I feel this is very important and hope to initiate a serious discussion about it.

February and March have been terrible months for human rights in Iran on all fronts, from students to bloggers to women to lawyers to Bahai and more. But all of this has been widely featured and discussed on this website. The ruthless crackdown on the organized labor movement in Iran, however, unless I missed something in Persian, has gone completely unnoticed except for one newsfeed which was very skimpy due to the skimpiness of its source (RFE/RL via Payvand), and so was neither featured nor commented here. So basically, here on this site, workers' rights are being completely ignored during this time of accute crisis.

I stumbled upon the dimensions of the crisis quite by accident. It was weeks before that one newsfeed ,and it was only one item about a flogging on a site that had nothing to do with Iran specifically. I had to do a lot of leg work and putting together pieces and source searching and verifying, but essentially what I've found out is that the current crackdown includes a full-frontal attack on Kurdish labor organizers; a central labor organizing group in Iran, the Komitteye Hamahangi; and the entire leadership of the Haft Tapeh Sugar Workers Union in Khuzestan.

The first includes, along with many arrests, the particularly brutal flogging (70 lashes) of a young woman; the second, the endangement of any central organizational structure for the movement. and the third, the potential devastation of the second official, second largest, and one of the most famous and active labor unions in Iran (along with Osanloo's Vaheb bus workers union in Tehran). Thus Haft Tapeh has a huge symbolic importance for the movement and its collapse--all its leaders are now eirher under or awaiting trial--would be disastrous. (Btw, Haft Tapeh workers often go months without pay because it's government run and it's going bankrupt while IRI spends millions on..oh, forget it...) Incredibly, however, during the very days when this purge has been at its worst, there have been two labor strikes in Iran, one of the Isfahani steel factory workers and one of the Nushab beverage factory workers. Talk about stamina

So I decided to write an article, hopefully highly accessible to all sectors of the general readership, about this crackdown, and follow up with a blog mainly for the regular blogging community. (Although the distinction is somewhat nebulous here, due to the mission and structure of this website, still a distinction can be made). I won't bore you with the details of how arduous and hence protracted this enterprise has become, in no small part, but by no means only, due to my inability to read the primary sources which are in Persian. but only say that due to the delay I've decidecd to write the blog first. I have one seminal question.

Why the silence?

The information is hard to get (certainly almost impossible in English) but it's out there. I actually think there may be several reasons for this silence, but I want to focus on one crucial idea I have in particular. Again, please bear with me.

It seems to me that the "Left" (for back of a better word and which btw includes me) should be (and historically at times has been) a natural home for human rights. However, on this site the "Left", due in part to our affiliation with the peace movement and in part to our "anti-Colonialism", focuses on what I would call the "macro", that is, geopolitics, in order to prevent foreign intervention, particularly military strikes, on Iran. Because of this, they (we) are often called "apologists" but I don't see it that way. I think we do it for tactical reasons. We are seriously afraid that if too much attention is drawn to the human rights attrocities n Iran, it will provide justification for such attacks in the name of "truth, justice, and the American (or Israeli) way".

While I agree that this is a risk, I don't agree with this strategy. I'm with Jesus on this one: 'The truth shall set you free." I feel the brutality of both the macro and the micro human rights violations should be screamed equally loudly. What is war after all but an en masse human rights violation? You can't prioritze in numbers because they're the same thing. so if you do, I feel you're selling out, and we all know where that will lead in our "brighter future". Okay,so that's how I feel, but I also feel this is affecting  labor in particular in a very dangerous way. (This is not to say that there are not people here who give equal time to both geopolitics and human right;, still, discussion of labor is absent at this time of crisis, and using the search engine here, it seems it is only highlighted at certain times, such as when Osanloo became a kind of "celebrity").

My nagging suspicion is that, given my own Left's absorption with geopolitics, (which is by no means exclusive to the Iranian context),  Labor falls between the cracks. if this Left of mine doesn't defend organized labor, why should people who are avowedly Capitalist (especially the center-right) be expected to do it for us without our encouragement, i.e. defend people who go around saying 'Workers of the world unite against the vile Capitalist masters', i.e. them? So of course this "center-right' of ours is going to focus on womens', journalists', Bahai rights, etc. As  for the liberals and independents, why should they be expected to access sources which are hard to find (at least in English) when they figure the Left would be guiding them in this, ,since, after all, the Left is supposd to be closely affiliated with (and originally was one with) Labor?

So my real question is; Is it possible that my Left has let organized Labor fall between the cracks, and that it's unreasonable to expect others to have shouldered this burden without our leadership? And if I am right,, does that mean we are dong something that is wrong? As well as extremely dangerous To put it another way:

Have we on the "Left" thrown organized labor to the wolves by abandoning one kind of "striking Iran" to prevent another kind of "striking Iran"? 

And if I'm right, is there anyone on this Left of mine who would care to step up to the plate on this one? And anyone else, as I'm sure you agree that saying "Workers of the world unite against capital", even vile capitalist masters, does not justify a beautiful young woman's getting 70 lashes, And that, if you think about it, if you worked long hours under the blazing sun of Khuzestan, doing back-breaking work every day without getting paid for three months, that you might be tempted to say it too.

And if I'm wrong, will someone please explain this silence.


International Alliance in Support of the Workers of Iran (English) // (Persian)                

Iranian Workers Solidarity Network (English)  // (Persian)

(Checking out the two above websites, you will see how miserably the English lags behind the Persian--they don't have enough translators).

Coordinating Committee to Form Workers Organizations in Iran     

Committee for the Defense of Haft Tapeh Workers (newly formed)

Free Trade Union of Iranian Workers      

                                                                                                                               Labour Start  (a respected international news agency for labor)


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rosie is roxy is roshan

the purpose of unions is obsolete in the united ststes for

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

the foreseeable future because they have become major corporations themselves, who unltimately, as kaveh points out, serve their ceo's rather than the workers themselves.

the purpose of unions in a country like iran has neither ever begun to achieve its purpose nor will iran ever begin to achieve its purpose until it does...regardless of what form of government it has...

as kaveh points out, the purpose of unions in iran is synonymous with self-determination, and without a decent wage for workers, veryone else's self-determination will be on the sweat of the backs of poor people...and that's not self-determination, that's parasitism..and i don't care whether it's some broad parading around north tehran in a mini-skirt and stilletos, or anyone else...

the forces that move and shape democracy are virgin territory in iran...they haven't been tested yet..and that means they haven't been tainted either..that is why countries like iran will have a chance to pave the way..

oh and ps, as regards miss thing on the other blog, well i did post my own mini-blog summarizing my response in so many words..but i ALSO posted a response to nur on faryar's blog which started all this and which very few people are aware of, go into my tracking and find sourcewatch this, and read his charming post to me called "khar khodeti", (which i conjecture means something like up yours..or what a jerk you any case, not flattering..0 and my reply to him called brainwashed..U WILL LAFF..

ESPECiALLY if i tell you that i wrote u no who and told him to read it too..and he will...i no he will...

look it's long that one but i PROMISE you you better have some toilet paper with you because U WILL P IN UR PANTS..i wrote it for faryar really, we're pals..we had dinner last summer together in new york...

the pinky and the brain...


anonymous fish

i hope it will continue

by anonymous fish on

it was getting interesting and i hope i didn't derail too much into labels.  my view on unions is a little skewed i'm sure because of the influence from my parents.  so i'm very interested in hearing what the guys have to say about it.  i do agree with kaveh that the original purpose of unions is nearly obsolete in these days.  i remember reading once that marx didn't really have so much of an outline for the perfect government as he did criticisms of capitalism.  but i need a refresher course for sure.

in the meantime, i'm enjoying the hell out of that insane article by amil.  i also commented on the sourcewatch thing and i know you were active there as well. 

party on, mo chara!!!! 

rosie is roxy is roshan

If anyone's still out there, Kaveh, David, lemme know,

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

and I'll reply to the posts I haven't'll show up on my tracking. you too fish, when you reply, it'll you well know..


rosie is roxy is roshan

You wanna be radical, Fish?

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

Then start with a clear framework (mine's as good as any, better than many), and then it will be easier to figure things out,

then tweak the framework change it, or throw it completely into the gutter and devise your own,

and be SCRUPULOUsLY honest in devising it, to yourself and to others, as best as you can be,

and LiSTEN to others' critiques of it,

and never stop revising it,

and then it will incorporate so many other people's viewpoints and ideas,

that you will never goosestep with anyone,

or at least when you catch yourself doing it, or when someone points it out, you will try to stop,

and then you will be truly radical

because it is the nature of humans to goosestep because out of all the creatures, we are the ones which evolutionarily are the least equipped to survive on our own, we can't fly away like the birds do, we have no claws like the cats do, we can't camouflage like frogss, sting like bees, charge like bulls,

so evolutionarily, biologically, we are programmed into herd instincts for self-survival,

and the ONLY thing we have for our individual survival is our smarts,

so the person who cultivates the true INDIViDUAL smarts for the true BENEFIT of the herd,

is pushing us all forward into the next step in the evolutionary process.

now what could be more radical than that?

and whether you wind up "labelling" yourself right, left, center, independent, when you have to label, or any combination, or even avowedly apolitical...

doesn't make the slightest bit of difference,

still radical.


Tthe reason I label myself in my own political discourse is because I see my function as a counter-BALANCE to the others, which are all Capitalist, in the inevitable mixed economies to come, And so I have to give myself name, especially in the United States, so people will know I'm here,and so I call it "soft Socialist"..


I have done it here a lot with people to the "right" of me but I have not done it with "this Left of mine." now I will have to do it, so that they will constantly be faced with the question, are they truly Left at all, while they are mouthing off about saving Iran from the Capitalist Imperialist masters. 

Pity. And I very very rarely use the word "shame" in political discourse--I used it once with Zion when she came out with that awful blog laughing when the Gaza ceasefire was announced, and many times (usually privately) to Javid, but ONLY BECAUSE OF HIS ROLE and THEREFORE IMHO IMPLICIT RESPONSIBILTIES AS LEADER OF A LARGE COMMUNITY...

and I never thought that way about a group..not hard-core Zionists, not Maoists, never..


Shame on...



anonymous fish


by anonymous fish on

now THIS is the kind of verbosity i like in you!!!  i'm not going to pretend for a minute that i absorbed all of this in one reading so i'm going to cut and paste and reflect on your words.  but i have to admit i'm pouting just a little bit.  i wanna be extreme!!!!!  i wanna be radical!!!!  i wanna be just like you!!!  :-))

no... seriously.  while i don't like labels per se, i don't think i have a very defined political position.  i was very pro-hillary but i honestly have to say i'm not sure how much of it was pro-woman.  i absolutely do admire her grit and i believe she is a tremendous voice of "the people".  i was very happy to go with obama.  i am a believer that we can be better than we are. 

mccain who?

loved the last paragraph...  wish i had more time to respond to that.

The problem today is not Capitalism but the wasteful consumerism that we are facing in all aspects of our lives.  david has summed it up.

rosie is roxy is roshan

Okay, Fish, let's start with the labeling

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

There really AREN'T so many issues here, there's really only one, as you said, they're all related, to ONE issue, but to not be confused, you have to have some kind of framework to ground you. Now Kaveh and David are both absolutely right, the labels don't mean all that much when you get down to brass tacks. But they do help as a framework. And also I had to use them in this blog because I was addressing a specific group of people on this site who use a language, and purportedly share goals and tactics, similar to my own, and I couldn't just say "Hey you." So I called them "this Left of mine." In quotes. And that's how it started. And it's as good a place as any to begin if you want to have a clearer picture of geopolitics, ecconomics, etc. 

So I'm going to give you the categories that I use to "label" people according to political ideology. Remember, map, not territory.

The basic schema is:

Left       Center     Right

That's the basic EUROPEAN one, and of course the whole thing originated in Europe. Anyway. You can subdivide these categories as you like, you have center-right, left-center, etc.  But basically you have these three. The Left refers to anyone who holds a Marxist worldview, whether to more or less degree. That includes anyone from Chairman Mao to Marjaneh to me. The Marxist worldview basically states that history is determined by economic relationships, and that it is the end goal of history for capitalism to end and the wealth to be equally distributed. Needless to say, I am a "moderate" Leftist. I do not expect this to actually happen, nor hope that it will, because pure Socialist or Communist states are inherently totalitarian. I advocate for what is called "mixed economies", part Capitalist, part Socialist, and I believe that that is the future and i see my role as balancing out the other side, not eliminating it. We will need Microsoft for some time to come. Anyway, just so you know, I am just about at the boundary before Left becomes Center but I AM left and there IS a difference. And as you already can see, you're not left, because if you were, you would know it, it' has a specific framework that you study and learn. Anyway. There IS  a reason why you have the confusion and ask if you are left and I'll get to it later, anyway. Movng on.

The United States has two main parties, and they both for the most part (until recently) corresponded to the European center. Dems, Republiccans (not the Bushies), both Center. Why? Because in Europe there is a viable, strong, legitimate left, from whose perspective Dems and Reps (until recently) weren't all that different, being pro-Capital and so on. And the "Liberals"here in the US, they too would be in the center, the (moderate Center, that is). You CANNOT legitimately be considered a Leftist if you're pro-Capitalit. So Liberals are the "left" extreme of the CENTER.

However, because there is really no viable Left in the US, due to the purges of it under McCarthyism in the '50s, you know, the "Red Scare", I combine the European and American categories, and I say:

Left             Liberal             Center             Right

in which most dems and most republicans (not the "crazies" as the neo-cons were previously called0, fall in the center. So now if we have to "label" you where do you fit? You're not on the Left and no doubt people on the Left (the ones who don't give a sh-t about this blog) have called you "rightwinger' from time to time, but I think a realistic assesment of where you fit would be, whom did you REALLY hope would become President? if it was Obama, you're probably a Liberal, if it was Hillary you're probably a dem (by me, Centrist) and if you EVER had sympathies for McCain for five minutes you're either a Republican (center-right) or a right-winger. I doubt that.

So you choose. Liberal or Dem. From the standpoint of the traditional European categories, it really doesn't make THAT much difference. And that's why some of my friends on the Left refused to vote for Obama. Because he's pro-Capitalist and neo-Colonialist, etc. Oreo. Same shit, different smell, bla bla bla. and I'd be like, hellooooo, do you think we'd be where we are today if Gore had won in 2000? Are you insane? But they would not vote for Obama, becaue for them, center is center. And they are Left.

All this by the way,does not make me a Liberal. I was very skeptical about Obama and was going to vote for him but that's all, since he is, after all, a Liberal..but then in walks the Moose Killer and I got really scared.And I actually campaigned.

Anyway so I think we're clear on that. From a Euro standpoint, you and Kaveh are both Center, and I'm Left. From an American standpoint, he's probably a Republican and you're probably a liberal Dem. From David's standpoint the categories don't matter but one thing's for sure, he's not on the Right.

So this all being so simple, how is it possible that someone like you is confused and isn't sure whether you're a Liberal, a Leftist, or what?

It is not your fault. It is the result that is intended by the US "system'. It is very hard to understand what a "system" is or how it "thinks", because like Kaveh said, there's 300 million people in this system. many things happen. There ARE people who sit in what were formerly called "smoke-filled rooms' and actually manipulate thngs deviouslythere ARE power brokers, but there's also this kind of..synergy..and somehow this system..moves has a mind..of its own...

and somehow in the US  things have reached a point where the politcal discourse has been "skewed" and the entire corporate media is like this giant beast in which somehow almost everyone, consciously or unconsciously, is complicitous in this skewing.

So what do I mean by "skewing." It's a very simple thing, really. Since the 1950's the Left (the Marixist ones, from Mao to me), have been so demonized, ridiculed and villified, that we are now considered the "loony fringe'" (and in fact, some of us are, but not all). So what happens when you bump the entire legimate Left off the spectrum by clainming we're insane and foaming at the mouth and so our opinions don't count? Well, in Europe you'd get this spectrum:

 Center              Right.

And statesdie, you'd get this;

Liberal Democrat Republican Conservative (i.e. Right)

Only in Europe that can't happen and in the States it already has.

So common sense will tell you that if I'm institutionable and don't count, much less Marjaneh, then what are the Liberals now? They are the Left. So Obama is now "on the Left."  Aaah, but where does that leave Hillary?  Well, she too is kinda sorta on the Left (the "moderate Left'. So you have this phenomenon whereby suddenly Liberals and Dems are now "Left" when they should be and historically are Center, becaue they have no roots in Marxist labor theory of Capital (or Anarchist theory, but let's leave that out for now, it just throws an unnecessary monkey wrench into the works, let's just say Anarchists are also anti-Capital, but not Marxist).

So that's why you ask, Am I on the Left? In Europe this question is laughable, it's a travesty. Unfortunately in the States, because of the SKEWING of the discourse, it is said that you are. And you are led, by this "system', this...thing...of hundreds of million people...with this believe that you are.

But you are not.

I am. Marjaneh is. All the people screaming about Gaza say they are. (Except they're not here to say it...but I'll get into that in the next post...)

Oh yes, and another amazing thing happens with the skewing of the discourse. If O is Left, and Hil is Leftish, then the whole thing moves over...and suddenly a lunatic like Bush whose OWN FATHER, a rightwing Republican, would've called one of the "crazies", becomes...a Republican. This insanity of his and Cneney's which was so far far just...take over countries in the Third World at will, write spurious documents going against the Constitution to permit torture, surveillance of ordinary people, the rule by fear...all of it, all of it, SO FAR RIGHT...suddeny these people are Republicans. And why?

Because Marjaneh has been thrown off a cliff. And me too.The Left has just been...discarded. And in walk.. Bush and Cheney, the "Republicans", the "Center."

If you were on the Left this is more or less how you would've reacted to losing your assets. You would've said:

Well Capitalism is a corrupt, exploitative, decadent system which has, built into it, cyclical Depressions, and it was time for one to come anyway, so I was realy stupid to get caught up in all this anyway and I deserved it. Anyway was I really selling out by doing whatever job I did to get those assets and was it ethical of me to work for that Capitalist company, or whatever. And then you'd think, well, the GOOD thing about a Depression is that things only change during hard times, and when the middle class gets hit, then they have to recognize themselves as fundamentally affiliated with the working classes, because in hard times, they are both equally expendable, in the eyes of the fat cats. So hopefully there's a silver lining to this dark cloud because maybe people will mobilie. But what should i do? Can I pay my mortgage? My kids' health insurance? How long witll my unemployment last? And what can I do in the meantime to keep focussed on the big picture instead of just getting absorbed in my own personal problems, which are grave in deed? Well..i guess I could call up some old friends and go back to doing some organiing...I really should've been doing it all along. What the hell was I thining when I accepted that unethical Capitalist job that ate my life and gave me back nothing? i should've been working in a bookstore and organizing the whole time..

Well anyway, dear, that should give you a good bite to chew on for a few mintues.

Take care,



anonymous fish

so many different issues yet

by anonymous fish on

so utterly intertwined.

david.  i share your frustration on issues that are ignored while others are more highly profiled.  it's a combination of all those things you mentioned.. who you know and who it affects.  or... those what gots and those what don't....:-)

reference labels.  leftist has always carried a connotation of communist to me.  liberal?  fine, i have no problem with that.  but harkening back to my parent's generation, leftist usually meant a leetle toooooo left...:-).  i think i'm somewhere between a liberal democrat and a conservative democrat... with a sprinkling of liberal conservative... and a dash of socialism thrown in for extra flavor.

see... THAT is the problem with labels.

or, as tip o'neill said... all politics is local....:-)

r.  "We are seriously afraid that if too much attention is drawn to the human rights attrocities n Iran, it will provide justification for such attacks in the name of "truth, justice, and the American (or Israeli) way".    not sure what you mean here.

sorry i'm skipping around so much.  but there is SO MUCH to process and think about in this blog. 

a veritable buffet!!!

i want to get back to unions.  i want to further discuss the labor movement.  I WANT MORE!!!!


Kaveh Nouraee

David ET

by Kaveh Nouraee on

Good points. I agree that Marx would have revised his thinking, although I'm uncertain as to the extent.

You are correct, capitalism is not the problem. Consumerism, as we see it today, is a reflection of a society that is increasing bankrupt, morally speaking. Where education was once the measure of a person, it is now how many electronic gadgets or Air Jordans one owns. There is a near-total absence of individual personal values, and an overwhelming sense of entitlement, without any sense of responsibility and accountability.

This mentality serves as the fuel for this new wave of liberal politics, where it is claimed that "government is the answer to all of the problems", and that the greater the role government plays (i.e.: the bigger the bureaucracy) the better it is for society. And these people are buying into this the way people stood in line for days when the Apple iPhone was first introduced.

And to think: the 1970s was called the "Me" decade.

rosie is roxy is roshan

All, I did draft two pretty long replies to other posts but

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

for some reason my computer swallowed them up before posting them. I am oging to have to re-draft them on Microsoft and then copy them here and post them, otherwise I think it'll happen again. Later. r.

rosie is roxy is roshan

Oh David, I never meant to say you were SiLENT about those

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

issues! LOL I was making a specific distinction between giving vocal SUPORT to and specifically ADVOCATING for them as in speechifying, fundraising, blogging, campaiging and so forth, as in the root meaning, Sp, Fr, abogado, avocat=lawyer.

The causes I personally had seen you advocate for are SCE, the Obama campaign, the critque of Obama's current policy, and the grassroots pacifist ousting of the IRI. The others I was just unaware of.

That's all I meant to say.  Not that you were SILENT, oh, no! Not at all.

However if I got one person active in the human rights movement to realize how low on the totem pole of the oppressed labor is, for now, that's enough.  Through my research on labor I also came to realize that the other major neglected group are the regional activists. That i why I posted a news feed on it, now featured, called Tabooestan.

A few weeks ago I posted a blog on Sufi dervishes rituals and mentioned that they were discriminated against and a poster brought it to my attention that it has been to a very great extent lately along with all the other purges. Amnesty knows all about it.(S)he gave me a news link which I posted but it did not get featured (J. was not doing the feeds featuring at the time).

Since then I have also tried to interject the Sufis into the discourse, It is not just the Bahai, Christians, etc. It is the Dervishes too.And they are Muslims...

One of my personal favorites I found out about in this reserach was that IRI broke up a PRO-Palestinian rally in Khuzestan during the Gaza conflict  and arrested people (because it was Khuzestan you see, and the regional activism..they should not be allowed to congregate to express ANYTHING there at all). What  a piece of sh-t of a Regime.

I would love to see "this left of mine" comment on that one.But they wouldn't. They'd just say nothing and move on to the anti-Israel threads.

David ET

Rosie FYI

by David ET on

I have not been silent to political imprisonments and murders nor to womens or student movements ... 

e.g. You can see some of my video clips on you tube about women and student movements here:


But like you said labor movement has been relatively less presented to the outside world. It is great that you brought it up here... 

David ET


by David ET on


  Marx's economic and historical views were very progressive in the 1800's but if he was around in 2009 , he would have revised his projections.

The ones who still are stuck there, are in essence denying the "dynamics" of the evolution that has taken place since then .

The age of information, technology, internet, globalization and modern consumerism which did not exist in 1800's require newer thoughts and solutions..

The problem today is not Capitalism but the wasteful consumerism that we are facing in all aspects of our lives.

The laws of nature that dominate everything is a proof that nothing gets wasted in nature and everything has its own purpose and when as a species we tend to break these laws , we are doomed to fail wherever we do not respect such laws: governmnents, factories, corporations, unions, households or environment. 

The current economic situation is a direct result of the booms that were created by buying in to a wasteful lifestyle (in the name of happiness) that we were sold with.

All these Stimulus will just continue the same wasteful non-cycle that has failed already. We need a fundamental change of attitude and if we don't , we will be forced to learn or adapt or we will BLOW it ALL  one way oy another.


Kaveh Nouraee

I'm Liking This One

by Kaveh Nouraee on

Probably one of the more constructive threads in a long time.

I believe that globalization and deregulation as we have seen it being used wouldn't be so prevalent, had these unions been placed "in check" a long time ago. As much as corporations took advantage of the situation prior to the time of organized labor, the unions continue to operate as if corporations still have that mentality. Yes, the workers are the ones breaking their backs to manufacture the goods, but management created the job in the first place. What has become long forgotten is that if management doesn't make any money, neither will the workers.

Yes, workforces are increasingly temp or part-time. Again, the result of having to find a way to avoid union involvement, or rather, interference. It costs an employer much less to hire a "temp" or a contract worker, who will still take home roughly the same net paycheck as a union employee. Remember that back in the early days of labor, there were no labor laws as there are now. Today, everyone, whether they are union or not, are still protected by federal and state labor laws. And as far as job security, that's become a far more slippery slope to navigate, as companies are operating on razor thin margins. Think about it for a second. Who would have ever imagined that General Motors of all companies would ever entertain the idea of filing bankruptcy?

David ET


by David ET on

I do believe everyone's RIGHTS should be defended but I do not condone them or their actions individually.

There is a big difference.

We all are born human but not all act as one 


rosie is roxy is roshan

We're all human, David. You know that.

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

You even defend people who have been involved in murders.

If Marjaneh wants to help me translate the oriiginal source that's good. If she doesn't, that's her choice. Either way.

Ttwo things I won't allow, especially on my thread, are for someone to attack you, because other people will read it, and for myself not to try to communicate as best as I can with someone who reads me regularly and respects me and is trying to communicate with me the best they can. No matter what they say.

But you already know both of those things.

I'll reply to your previous long post later.

Take care and thanks again,


David ET


by David ET on

  I avoided discussing Marjaneh's specific attacks on me because I did not want to distract from the subject of your blog. Thank you for your comments.

I did read Marx stuff long time ago in detail and my position is clearly stated on my most recent blog titled: Eureka's of the lazy minds. 

By the way I would love to see Marjaneh's or anyones logic to prove I or my roots are in the rulling class of previous or present regime!

Not that I do not have one or can not afford one but I don't even drive a car. I ride bus and take the metro. What does Marjanhe drive? No I see, smell and walk along working class and the homeless and unemployed every day and I don't even drink coffee!

Like I said they are so close minded in their catagorizing people that to me its a childish joke. 

and you know I do not have any problem with rich and accomplished or even if I may be one! It's what you do with it, with your wealth, with your beauty, with your fame or with your position in society!

There are only two catagories of people: Human and sub! 


rosie is roxy is roshan

Kaveh, /PS Fish

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

On this site I referred to liberals, as in the specific group of clowns who claim to be fair thinking, open minded individuals who are supposedly concerned for the plight of the every day common person, when in fact they aren't.

Yeah, sounds like liberal to me. Liberal claim to be fair=thinking, open-minded, Leftists claim to be rigororous, discimplined thinkers, they don't have toe open-minded because their minds have already been opened and the task it to intruct others. And the fairne is meassured by the success of the intruction.

Look at all of these cases where manufacturing jobs, or anything else that falls under the category of "skilled labor" here in the U.S. are cut, with layoffs, plant closings, early retirement, and so on. The American worker loses his/her shirt, while the union reps still have nice fat paychecks for what? Absolutely NOTHING.

It has a lot to do with the corruption of the unions.. You're right, they're like big corporation themselves. But I think the jobs would've been outsourced anywy with or without the corruption. It's the globalization and deregulatiion that allowed the corporations access to very cheap labor internationally.

The bozos who come here on this site who blame corporate America completely overlook the role of the unions in this mess. But they continue to villify the corporate hierarchy as if they're evil incarnate. Ask for or suggest that the labor unions make concessions here in the U.S., then you need to be be ready to enter the Witness Protection Program.

Agreed, the unions definitely share the blame. But you don't think the corporations do behave vilely? Half of the workforce is part-time or temp now and almost no one has decent benefits, lots none at all, or job security?

But where are they on this matter? Nowhere. If it's the Iranian government who is cracking down on these people for wanting to organize and ensure that they're treated failrly and properly not only as workers but as human beings, they hide. That's my point. If I didn't convey it clearly enough, I offer my apologies.

No apologie necessary. It' just that there's a real distinction between liberals and the left. Liberal aren't left, they're left center. The only reason they're conidered left in the US is because of the skewing of the political spectrum where the left, from hard left like Maoists to moderate left, like me, are knocked off the spectrum completely as the "looney fringe", we (they) don't count within the discourse. So everthing move over, liberals become left (Obmama), center becomes liberal, etc. and that makes room for the far right to move over, so the Bush adminstration instead of being far right is then conidered "Republican" (center-right).

I guess I'm really not that familiar with how a Liberal engages on thi site in terms of human right or politically at all. I think I've spent most of my time dialoguing between the Left (o-called) and the Center-Right. but enough of these categories. My whole point is just that liberal and left are different. You're talking about the one and I'm talking about the other.

Fish, I know the categories are tedious and very imperfect (map is never terrain) but if you read this you'll undertand why you might think you're on the Left. That' just a product of the skewing of the spectrum in the US. You're not left. Trust me. If you were, and you lost your assets, you'd be saying cyclical Depresion is inherent to Capitlism (which it is) and down with Capitalism, the middle class are exploited by the Capitalists, we must reexamine out relationship to Labor, we are labor, etc.

rosie is roxy is roshan

PS Marjaneh,

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

Why don't you work with me? Come back and work with me. I need all the help I can get.I feel the Komitte and the iASI and the INSWI don't completely trust me because I no longer speak their language in quite the same way I used to. And also of course I don't speak Persian well enough and this causes problems with the Komitte within Iran. And the Ettefadeh, I haven't even contacted them yet. I'm afraid of asme ol' same ol'. Why don't you work with me.

But I'm telling you right now, if you work with me you are also working with three people who want to help me out. One of them I would call a centrist but who in the past was an actiive member of the old Left;; one of whom professes to be avowedly apolitical, although you would have much in common with him because he is also a materialist; and one of whom I would call a Liberal, who, btw, has offereed his help but only as long as I don't divulge it to others. And that is fine by me. Every single one of them supports the Labor movement. And that is why they want to help me.

And every single one of them supports ME. And I try my best to be the best I can be. So when someone supports me, I know they understand that, and that means they also try their best. And that's all anyone can ever ask of anyone. To try their best.

You have to try to understand that. THAT'S the secret.


Kaveh Nouraee

Fair Fishie

by Kaveh Nouraee on

Perhaps this isn't the soup du jour, but if Palestine is the only blue plate special on this menu.


You bring up a very valid point. Increasingly it has become about style or labels rather than actual substance or content. It's right or left, conservative or liberal, Republican or Democrat. 300 million people and only two categories? WTF?

To answer your question about unions, well here it goes.

Back in the early 20th century, as this country was turning into this manufacturing and industrial powerhouse, unions were borne out of necessity. At that time, in a given industry, there were just a handful of companies at most. The two or three companies were run by what we would call a "good old boys network". As they had virtually no competition who could pose a threat by luring workers away with better pay or benefits, these guys used and abused workers as a matter of routine. Little pay, no benefits, unsafe conditions, long hours, and so on.

Labor unions put a stop to the abuses. The got fair wages, benefits, safer working conditions, and so on.

But what has happened since?

Competition has increased. Instead of a Big Three in Detroit, carmakers from Japan, Korea and Germany build cars here in the U.S. with a per unit cost that is lower than the Big Three. Goods that used to be hauled by 18-wheelers almost exclusively are shipped by air, again at a lower cost.


Because these same unions who rightfully demanded and received fair wages and benefits for their members still go on today like it's the 1920s and 30s. When a union worker strikes, maybe, just maybe they'll get some money from the union to live on during the strike, provided an emergency strike fund even exists. Usually it doesn't. Meanwhile, the people at the union office? Their paycheck doesn't get touched. Remember the grocery workers' strike? There were workers who wanted and needed to work, but if they did the union was going to destroy them. It's no longer about protecting the worker, it's about the union covering its ass.

A UAW worker's gross pay equates to approximately $75 per hour, factoring in benefits and such. A non-union auto worker with Toyota or Honda grosses around $45. The difference? The UAW collects its dues, collects insurance premiums (and keeps a part of that for themselves) and funds the retirements of past workers.

The money paid to the UAW for doing nothing could have been used by the Big Three for research and development that would have kept them out of the financial toilet.

This is just one example.

Today, in Iran, a union would be a great thing. It's needed to fight back against the abuses the people have been taking just in order to get though the day. But if the savior becomes the oppressor, as it has in this country...then it will be time to go.

David ET

Human First

by David ET on

First I must say that my following reply is not from an ideological point of view . In other words I do not have to go and check it against Karl Marx or Mohammad's or..... words , to make sure that it fits . Nor do I take lead from any cult like some Iranian leftist groups.  .... I think (for myself ) therefore I am ! 


The problem and violations in Iran are so fundamental (to the point of barbaric) and so wide that practically all HUMANS of all classes (labor etc), genders , ages, races, cultures, .... are violated with their most basic rights ...In essence the violations affect ALL classes of society and that is why you see the rich and the poor effected and opposed to the violations of their most basic human rights ....

The definition that you are seeking are more explainable in a socially more advanced circumstances versus the current regime in Iran which violates ALL PEOPLE, ALL CLASSES, ALL AGES, GENDERS, RACES, ....

As for Marjaneh, the self-centered , self righteous, abrasive attitude that you see is in fact historically very typical of many of the so called leftist cults in Iran to the extent that if the socialists in Europe get to see such attitudes , they would bury their heads in shame.

We Iranians have been under dictatorships for so long that some of us regardless of our ideological or religious preferences in essence have one characteristic in common : Many of us are little dictators ready to blossom and to present ourselves. In other words the common denominator remains the same even when governments change from Monarchy to Islamic to left, etc.... (You can see such examples in other developing countries also). This takes a while and sometimes generations to overcome. Do not forget that many of the IR regime leaders , or Mojahedeen Leaders etc were former Iranian political prisoners under Shah's regime...

That is why a liberal secular democracy which allows formation of parties, unions , etc.... can help form a better society prepared to openly address many of our fundamental issues without falling from one dictatorship in to another as we did in 1979.

Going back to SCE example, some like Marjaneh having so ideologically trapped and isolated from reality do not realize that the majority of the 140+ children that SCE has tries to save from execution are children of the poorest and the least affluent , most of them labors from different parts of the country! ...But I guess the children of labor do not count since they are not part of a labor union or marjaneh's can not find a reference to them among their dusty booklets and therefore they are lost, but then they usually have a leader to think for them to give their parrots answers !

To answer your question about Ganji. As you know while he was imprisoned , while he was near death from hunger strike etc, many human rights activists raised their voice any way they could to save him including filling different petitions with thousands of signatures. But the same person who owes his life to petitions, letters, speeches, news etc by human rights activists , when approached to sign the petition to save juveniles from execution, had one reply: "Mr. Ganji has a policy of not signing any petitions!" 

Again I have respect for him standing up to Khamenei or his presentation of the involvement of the regime in the "chain murders", etc .... but you would expect that Ganji would be the first to try to help those who are imprisoned but he too for own reasons is also trapped in his own "policies"... Like I said no one is perfect, ..well may be except few leftist leaders, Rajavis, Ayatollah Khemenei, and may be Reza and who knows who else.... depending on which little or big dictator we follow or we are ... ;-)

Human rights includes all rights , after all we all are human before we are anything else regardless of our class status...


anonymous fish

it's all the labeling thats got me confused...:-)

by anonymous fish on

am i a liberal or a leftie or what?  according to the way kaveh describes them, hell no... i don't want to be one of those...LOL

but liberal in terms of "really" being fair minded, non-conservative, equal rights, etc. etc., then ok, cool, i'm one of those lefties. 

kaveh... don't be sarcastic.  i get confused sometimes...LOL.  i don't think it's a matter of caring only about their own rights.  what i find hypocritical is the way they are so selective about their concern for human rights.  like the palestinian thing.  y'all are all so right about that.  say the "p" word and they all come a'runnin.  i think that is more a case of hypocritical spotlight grabbing.  create a human rights issue and jump on the bandwagon. 

i would never suggest that someone who hasn't commented on this issue doesn't care.  it's just not the soup du jour, in a matter of speaking.

kaveh, as a republican, how do you feel about unions?  i can't figure out if you're a liberal republican or a conservative democrat in disquise...:-)

rosie is roxy is roshan

Okay Marjaneh let's get going, point by point

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

David ET is so dishonest. The question was why is there so little attention to Iranian workers by so called human rights orgnaizations.

Actually the question was supposed to be why is there so little attention to it ON THIS WEBSITE by the people who consider themselves to be on the Left, since the information is somewhat difficult to access, most of its sources are on the (Old) Left, and the Left traditionally shows leadership on these issues which others then follow.

David ET never provides an answer. No he does try to provide answers to why the LEFT has absconded, through a brief historical analysis of the Iranian Left from his perspective.

But let's look at YOUR question because obviously that's what's ticking you off.

He just makes up excuses .

No, I don't think he did. I think he was VERY clear about his mission to defend poor young people from execution, and the fact is that these poor young people are working class. Let's face it, there aren't that many kids from northern Tehran on Death Row.

I think part of what you're missing is that everyone has a niche. In the human right world, unless you're the head of Amnesty International or the UN or something like that, you're going to have to find a niche. Honestly I don't remember David ever talking much about the human rights of any other group except minors on Death Row, not women, not Bahai, not journalists...when he's NOT busy with SCE he seems to like to talk about grassroots movements to oust the IRI and American politics, as i recall.  He was a campaigner for Obama  from the start (which means he cannot by any stretch of the imagination be considered a right-winger), and he is now highly critical of Obama precisely because he feels his economic policies benefit the rich, not ordinary people.  So again, not right-winger.

Now, David's niche in human rights covers three groups, the poor, those subject to the Death Penalty, and the youth. That sounds like a decent strategy to do something helpful in human rights. It also involves an attempt to hold Iran accountable to international law and agreements that she's signed, which should (could?) be helpful in other areas of human rights as well.

 this is just like when people attacked Nazanin AJ.

Well why did they attack her?

 This is a comparison but typical male that he is, he wants to hide it in a loud chauvunist voice.

But he wasn't loud with me. You came here with a loud voice, didn't you? And spoke first before he did?

Let me make this blunt. You and other right wingers and Starbucks "liberals" are the ones who have to answer.

Right-wingers and Liberals (ALL Liberals are Starbucks) are two different groups with different world views, stategies, values and so forth. And in-between is a huge center. Anyway.  You're right, it's true that human rights organizatios in general have an obligation to labor movements as much as to movie stars whose rights are violated, BUT NOT SCE. It is a SINGLE-ISSUE HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZaTION. It has no mission, mandate, funding or manpower for anything except to STOP CHILDHOOD EXECUTIONS.

And within all that, David explained how this Fatehi girl, this working class girl who maybe even committed a murder represented THE turning point in getting minors' executions on the global map...because SCE pushed it so hard. 

So, whatever issues you may have with David, I cannot grasp why he is the target of your anger at the abandonment of the working class by human rights organiations or any other groups. And from my perspective, the specific mandate of protecting workers movements falls on the shoulders of the left, and then others follow..and that is why I took up the issue and have been investigating it for weeks. Because I happened upon one article about this labor purge, and I was astonished to realize how far I'd strayed from my legitimate Leftist roots in labor, while going around mouthing anti-Colonialsm in the name of anti-Capitalism, both pure Marx. So I held myself accountable. And along with myself, this Left of mine. Here. On this website.

And Marjaneh, not one single one of them has said one single word here. Not one. And they know me, and I know they were active onsite this weekend, and I know which threads they were active on--I watched carefully--and I KNOW many of them clicked on this blog because like I said, I tricked them into thinking it was about their most discussed topic--and...not one single word. And here you are IMHO WASTING your TIME and ENERGY attacking David, and this anger is misplaced.

And you haven't brought it up this time, but the first post you wrote attacked David and Kadivar together. But then I told you it was Kadivar who was the only person who said Boo about Labor in over two years here, and now you're not mentioning Kadivar and I'm wondering why?

Don't try to act like you have been talking about Unions when in fact you have been pushing a Canadian beauty queen who can't relate to any worker in Iran.

So what if she's a beauty queen. And what makes you say he's been "pushing" her. So she can make money and pay him a percentage? If Nazanin is "pushed" in any way on anyone, I would call this a pr/fundraising tactic.  Which disgusts many people on this site, I know, but not the people with the deep pockets...and it was those pockets which saved that working-class girl.

It is an insult the dignity of any Union for you to claim to be the advocate.

He didn't.  He started off complainiing about the general apathy in the expat community toward human rights and I pushed him to the labor issue, why has it been neglected by the Left, and he tried to offer some explanations. He never claimed to advocate for any Union, only to support them implicitly. Anymore than I ever recall him claiming to advocate for any women's or journalists' or Bahai group. Although I'm sure he has a mother and know he reads newspapers and is interested in spiritual beliefs.

 That is the joke. That's where you spend your energy

on "pusjiing" Nazanin? Let me ask you something. If SCE didn't, who WOULD advocate for the poor minors sentenced to the death? The women of the million signatures campaign? The Bahai? Who? Why is it so terrible that a beauty queen does. Would it be BETTER if she were pushing her own perfume line or advocating for women's rights in Northern Tehran?

 and you want people to think you give a damn about Unions.

No, he doesn't want that in PARTICUlAR. He only spoke at length about Unions because I asked him to.

What you do is an insult. You cater to a market in the Imperialist West that wants to see horrible atrocities in Iran for its own exploitation purposes.

Ah, there you go! Noooooooooow we're getting to the root of the problem. You are on the Left, you have firm roots in legitimate Left, the old Left, the one who gave Left the name,  whose anti-Colonialsim is firmly roote in an anti-Capitalism that is firmly rooted in labor relations.

Yet you have a problem with David working with a beauty queen to raise money to stop dirt poor kids from being hanged by cranes (a slow death), because they only do this to leave Iran vulnerable like a turtle on its back. So you are angry with David and Nezanin and deplore David's "merely" protecting poor kids and not labor unions on an everyday basis.

But you do not have any problem or any anger about this new New Left of mine here on this website PURPOSELY not talking about human rights violations in the name of anti-Colonialsm and anti-Capitalism not even stopping to take a piss on this blog when they know me well, and it was featured, and it was an active weekend onsite for the blogging community, and this blog's title is at the marrow of the bone of their MOST-discussed topic, "Striking Iran".

You have a problem with David's presence here but you do not have a problem with their non-presence? I feel the opposite way.

And I wonder if part of the reason you're so upset is because this Old Left of ours is shrinking and its mission to the working classses has been abandoned and it has an identity crisis and fears for its life. But it has not been abandoned by the Davids or the Darius or the Nazanin's of the world, who never claimed to be a part of it. It has been abandoned by this new New Left of mine, not by the liberals, not by the Center, not by the Right, and not by the independents. It has been actually ABANDONED by one group, and one group alone. No other.

You play marketing games by getting sex objects to get attention.

Exactly. Marketing games. What do you think I did by choosing the title of this blog? I told you before that I don't play. Playing marketing games is hard WORK.

These people have never addressed any class issues becauese they belong to the former ruling class of Iran.

I will say it again: fighting to save poor kids from Death Row (it's the SAME in the US, the prisons are full of the poor, usually non-white) IS protecting the working class. Posting a feed on the persecution of the Labor movement (and giving it a very upset title) as Kadivar did is supporting the working classes.

These ARE class issues. And it is all the more admirable when people from the "ruling classes" support them. Because if you are correct, presumably David could be sitting eating caviar all day on Malibu beach. But he's not. He's working for these kids.

They will never understand. That's the secret.

They don't have to understand. It isn't their responsibility to view labor movements from a Marxist persepective, to use the terminology, or to make it their primary concern. They don't have to understand the world the way you or I or anyone else sees it. Although admirably I think David does have a pretty good grasp on basic Marxist theory (which btw mine is basic too) but he doesn't have to give it primacy. He doesn't have to "Understand", that is conceptualize that way.

But people who are talking about anti-Colonialsim and anti-Capitalsim do have to understand.  Do they? Do they understand here?

And another thing it occurs to me that I should throw into the mix is that David envisions an internal ousting of the regime through a non-violent grassroots groundswell within Iran (involving labor in work stoppages btw) with absolutely no outside intervention, to prevent neo-Colonialsim, so to say. We have argued about it. I have said, David, it's a global problem. He has said, no thanks, we have to do it on our own.

This is the reason I no longer comment on this website and will not hear your excuses after this post. I already feel dirty just being on this page.

It is a very bad idea for anyone who has any message they want to convey to a general readership in the expat community to abandon this website. It has the largest outreach and the broadest spectrum of readership. It's bad strategy. IMHO.

Rosie, I have admired you as a young woman of principle. I know you did understand what I am saying but if you want to play dumb and continue making friends, that's your choice.

I'm not making friends. I've been friends with David for a long time. And friendly with Darius too. What I'm probably doing here is making enemies with some friemds on this Left of mine who may be surreptitiously reading thee comments. Or no..probably not..because if any of them are still reading here, it's because they're mulling things over..

Kaveh Nourayee, you make some ignorant rant about leftists. I do not see any true leftists here and I don't have the time to explain it to the likes of you.

Exactly. There aren't any true Leftists here. Except Yasmine who posts an article once every few months. And maybe a couple more. Why are you angry at Kaveh for not knowing the difference between a Liberal and a Leftist when that's not his job? But you know whose job it is. Why aren't you angry at them. And btw Kaveh in his lack of knowledge made a very interesting point;

as far as the "Left" ON THIS WEBSITE GOES, they're really not Left. So...maybe he's right. Maybe they're a...kind of..Liberal...leftish..mutation...or something like that..

My site is here. It has

done more for Unions than any phoney leftist or closet monarchist ever has.

I'll look it at later. Thanks.

Now I leave you alone to point fingers and blame everyone else but yourself who have always had the resources and exposure to make this a real issue but chose not to. Carry on.

Well you know by now who I'm pointing at. I was hoping not to have to point fingers, hoping that by luring this "Left" of mine onto this thread we could explore the issue together. And we did. With their silence.

Yet you are so angry at David's presence on this blog and his loquaciousness and all the time he put in but you are not upset by their absence. Therirsilence.

I want to venture a guess that if these people were not silent you would not have felt you had to leave this website because you would not have felt so alone. I do not believe you left because of David. Or Darius. Or  even the viper-tongued Kaveh.

Take care,


Kaveh Nouraee


by Kaveh Nouraee on

On this site I referred to liberals, as in the specific group of clowns who claim to be fair thinking, open minded individuals who are supposedly concerned for the plight of the every day common person, when in fact they aren't.

Even in matters such as the labor movement, these people claim to be supporters of unions and organized labor. In this country, organized labor went from being the advocate and support system of the working man, protecting them from being tken advantage of by corporate managers who never had to operate under teh threat of competition,  to being the very thing that has hurt the working man, and has caused so many jobs to be outsourced to other countries, who not only compete with American labor, but in many cases do the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Look at all of these cases where manufacturing jobs, or anything else that falls under the category of "skilled labor" here in the U.S. are cut, with layoffs, plant closings, early retirement, and so on. The American worker loses his/her shirt, while the union reps still have nice fat paychecks for what? Absolutely NOTHING.

The bozos who come here on this site who blame corporate America completely overlook the role of the unions in this mess. But they continue to villify the corporate hierarchy as if they're evil incarnate. Ask for or suggest that the labor unions make concessions here in the U.S., then you need to be be ready to enter the Witness Protection Program.

But where are they on this matter? Nowhere. If it's the Iranian government who is cracking down on these people for wanting to organize and ensure that they're treated failrly and properly not only as workers but as human beings, they hide. That's my point. If I didn't convey it clearly enough, I offer my apologies.

rosie is roxy is roshan

Kaveh #2

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

The reason is really not so difficult to understand.

In a nutshell, they honestly don't give a damn.

Well I certainly would've liked for one or two of 'em to have said three words on this thread, especially since, as I just told Fish, with the title of the blog, it's extremely unlikely that some did not click on it.

They're called leftists, but they're not even leftists, really. Because you can't really be a leftist, as in liberal, and stay quiet whenever this regime does their usual crap, which is of course, daily.

Well as I said to you below, there's a distinction between Liberals and the Left. And a I said in the blog, I don't hold Liberals responsible for not searching out hard to find sources about Labor since Liberals traditionally look to the Left for guidance on these issues, since the sources themselves tend to be Leftist. As indeed, they are here on this blog.

And as I also said, the general silence on human right by the Left here is something I don't agree with, but I think they do it for a reason--to prevent attack on Iran by drawing all the negative attention. (Liberals don't do that, that's why they're called "bleeding hearts").  So my idea is that while I don't think it's good for this Left of mine to hush hush the human rights issues, at least someone picks up a lot of it for them, on all shades on the non-Left spectrum. Whereas Labor has been DOOMED to fall between the cracks. And that's on them (us).

And well, I asked for a concersation here from the very opening of the blog, and I wanted it from different types of people, but especially from them and I'm satisfied that I got it.

The conversaton was silence.

On this particular issue, the only way you'll get a response from them is if they are pressed. And even them it will be a response where the behavior of the IRI is once again, condoned, excused, justified, apologized for, or otherwise explained away.

Well..I'll see, won't I? I thought I'd just pressed them...apparently not...

Hopefully this movement will grow in Iran. First, in order to ensure workers' rights, but even more importantly, to teach the population the concept of "power" or "strength in numbers", which is the single most important concept in any sort of democracy.

Yep, self-determination is self-determination. And there's such a paradox at work here, because the whole argument of this Left of mine here is that the focus on geopolitics is to free Iran from Colonialsim so that it can have self-determination...

and so...Paradox Rex.

rosie is roxy is roshan

Kaveh, read the second part of my comment to Anonfish

by rosie is roxy is roshan on


Marjaneh IS different. She's here.

The probliem is in my opinon that her frustration is misplaced. Seriouly misplaced.

In any case Kaveh just to clarify the terms so I can answer your first post, Left and Liberal are different. Liberalim is not rooted in a theory of labor, Leftism is.



rosie is roxy is roshan

yeah, fish kinda sorta yes no maybe but / Marjaneh ps

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

you see, the central point of my blog is that labor isn't even on the radar screen here. People know all about the twelve one million signature women's rights activists (which included several men ;o0 ) whe were arrested but no one even mentioned (except dk's feed) til now that MORE than that many labor activists were arrested in the same wees too. There can't be any JUSTiFICATION per se for that kind of silence. There can be plausible explanations which may or may not be accusatory, but there can't be justifications. It's wrong and it has to change. And I'm happy to say that I think in the past couple of days it has somewhat. Because I tricked people into clicking on this blog by using the title I used, which in its usual sense is among the most-discussed topics on this site.

So now they know. The ones on this Left of mine here haven't said anything (Marjaneh is not part of that group), which says a lot--to me-but now they know.

In any case,, let me just say that there was a reciprocal relationship between the women's rights and labor rights movement in getting women's equality at work. They both caused and fed into each other and it's impossible to say which started first. IMHO

And also that when I say things uch as: as I drink this coffee and click on this keyboard these beans and this plastic came from the (usuallly underpaid) sweat off someone's back,

that world view is at the core of the Left, it IS how the Left came to be, during the Industrial Revolution when many people dropped like flies in the factories. So that when people here who consider themselves "Left" allow Labor to be so off the radar screen that it isn't even whispered here, and then click on a blog like this (they had to have, there's just no other possibility, even if ionly to see what crazy Rosie has to say about Israel and the nukes and whatnot...) and say NOTHING., it is questionable whether they can legitimately be considered on the Left in any true sense of the word.

Despite their avowed missions of anti-Coloniasm, anti-Capital and so on, all Marx, all stemming from his theories of Labor.

Sorry for the digression, Fish. Just...riffin'...


PS Marjaneh, just thought you'd like to see I mentioned you here above.

Kaveh Nouraee


by Kaveh Nouraee on

Take my word for it woman, I am the LAST person on this site you want to piss off.

You are no different than the ones who are considered "leftists" around here. You're obviously just another ignorant, arrogant individual who places a higher priority on speaking the loudest, rather than speaking with substance.

You claim you no longer comment in this website, yet every other post on tis thread is from you, attacking people.

So do everyone a favor, shut up, and stay off this website if it bugs you so much.

anonymous fish


by anonymous fish on

there is no doubt that labor rights violations are human rights violations as well.  that's a given.  but one won't be given due respect as a worker until they are given due rights as a human being.  i submit that that logic dictates that work conditions would improve as a result OF better human rights programs, not as a separate (yet equally) important issue.  not to compare but equality between women and men (such as it is) in the work force came as a result of women's rights... to vote, for example.

so what do you focus on?  not unlike obama, you can't solve every problem at once.  tackle the basic issues first, lay the groundwork for successful activism and then... get to work!

rosie is roxy is roshan


by rosie is roxy is roshan on

Rosie, I have admired you as a young woman of principle. I know you did understand what I am saying but if you want to play dumb and continue making friends, that's your choice.

Thanks Marjaneh, but honestly I DIDN'T understand a lot of what you were saying. And if you look at your first post you will see that it is not that clear and logical, probably because you were very upset when you wrote it. The new post is much clearer and easier to respond to point by point. You have NO IDEA how hard I struggled trying to REALLY understand the logic behind that first post and the drafts I wrote in response and deleted. So thanks for the reply and just bear with me and I'll be back. oh and ps I'm not young by any stretch of the imagination, far too old to play anything with a forum like this, much less play dumb. I know what's important and what's not. :o0 Take care.  r.


The same worthless words over and over again

by Marjaneh0 (not verified) on

David ET is so dishonest. The question was why is there so little attention to Iranian workers by so called human rights orgnaizations. David ET never provides an answer. He just makes up excuses and says this is just like when people attacked Nazanin AJ. This is a comparison but typical male that he is, he wants to hide it in a loud chauvunist voice.

Let me make this blunt. You and other right wingers and Starbucks "liberals" are the ones who have to answer. Don't try to act like you have been talking about Unions when in fact you have been pushing a Canadian beauty queen who can't relate to any worker in Iran. It is an insult the dignity of any Union for you to claim to be the advocate. That is the joke. That's where you spend your energy and you want people to think you give a damn about Unions. What you do is an insult. You cater to a market in the Imperialist West that wants to see horrible atrocities in Iran for its own exploitation purposes. You play marketing games by getting sex objects to get attention.

These people have never addressed any class issues becauese they belong to the former ruling class of Iran. They will never understand. That's the secret.

This is the reason I no longer comment on this website and will not hear your excuses after this post. I already feel dirty just being on this page.

Rosie, I have admired you as a young woman of principle. I know you did understand what I am saying but if you want to play dumb and continue making friends, that's your choice.

Kaveh Nourayee, you make some ignorant rant about leftists. I do not see any true leftists here and I don't have the time to explain it to the likes of you.

My site is here. It has done more for Unions than any phoney leftist or closet monarchist ever has.

Now I leave you alone to point fingers and blame everyone else but yourself who have always had the resources and exposure to make this a real issue but chose not to. Carry on.