United we stand, Divided we fall

United we stand, Divided we fall
by Roozbeh_Gilani
26-Aug-2011
 

Folks:

Take a look at these two handsome guys & allies about to give each other a french kiss, and then read on.

 No single political/ideological group can get rid of islamist regime. So if you think that you can directly replace IRI with a socialist or monarchist or aryanist or greenist MKOist or whatever, forget it. Only the broadest coalition of all political groupings united in their demends for some basic prinipals (Free elections, democracy, etc....) Have a chance of getting rid of Islamist regime. 

Dont play into regime's hands by invoking secterian debates. By all means, criticize, but  avoid general attacks on ideological grounds . Islamist regime, looking at this site, must be laughing their heads off reading some of the blogs with their success on causing friction amongst opposition forces. Let me give you some examples:  Attacking Shirin Ebadi , calling her a "CIA, MI6 agent", because she is a muslim and proud of it is wrong. Lots of political opponents of the regime at Evin are devout muslims. Attacking communists because Tudeh party sucked up to islamist regime is wrong. Islamist regime has killed tens of thousands of communists and socialists and is doing so to the date. Tudeh party is rejected by vast majority of socialists and communists, even ex_Tudeh members. islamist regime's jails is full of communists, socialists and trade unionists. Attacking Reza pahlavi, and hence all monarchists because SAVAK killed so many people is wrong. RP's current platform is a secular constitutional monarchy for Iran.

Remember: Unity is strength.

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more from Roozbeh_Gilani
 
Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Amir

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I don't know the details of every single action. But you bet false flags do happen. 

Saddam was lured into attacking Kuwait. This is a recorded fact. He specifically asked the American ambassador and was told US did not mind. That is why he went on and did it. In reality US then used that as an excuse to bring Iraq from an advanced nation to a primitive backwards wreck. A job they finished later on. Of course Iraqi were also responsible by being manipulated and stupid. Saddam should have backed out as soon as he saw the trap. The Iraqui do not have to blow each other up. 

But I am just using your own example to prove how things get manipulated. Obviously the US wants the regions backwards.


AMIR1973

Dear VPK,

by AMIR1973 on

Can nations or individuals always know what the future consequences of their actions will be or do they sometimes miscalculate? For example, did Saddam know that invading Kuwait in 1990 would lead to his military being destroyed by the U.S. in a matter of weeks? Saddam did not benefit from invading Kuwait, so therefore perhaps Saddam did not actually invade Kuwait, and the CIA-Mossad-MI6 just made it look like he invaded Kuwait. To use another example, would Syria have been able to gaze into the future and see that the killing of Hariri would lead to massive protests in Lebanon that forced Syria to withdraw its troops after almost 30 years? Is it possible that the Assad regime thought they would get away with murder just like they had gotten away with it many times before -- that would have seemed to be the most "foreseeable" consequence based on past events (they got away with killing Kamal Jumblatt and Bashir Gemayel, among many others). (And BTW, Hariri was just one of a number of individuals who were assassinated in Lebanon. There were a number of anti-Syrian politicians and journalists who were also assassinated in similar ways, interestingly enough). Perhaps, it was a series of "false flag" operations to kill anti-Syrian figures just to make it look like Syria was the culprit. And do we know for certain that the IRI has ever actually committed any terrorist acts or assassinated anyone? The IRI has powerful enemies (CIA, Zionists, neocons, AIPAC, etc). Perhaps those terrorist acts attributed to the IRI are really just CIA-Mossad-MI6 "false flag" operations designed to make the IRI look bad. Is that possible? The IRI has always denied involvement, so how can we be sure that they have ever been involved in any terrorist acts?


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Dear Friends

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I know there is a cold war between Iran and Israel. Yes there are acts of assassination on both sides. My only issue is that I want proof before I blame someone. How does an act help a particular nation.

For example the murder of Rafic Hariri was blamed on Syria. In reality the result was that Syria was forced to withdraw its troops from Lebanon. Why would they do something that results in that? It just sounds wrong to me. I know Syrian government is nasty; evil and murderous. But why would they kill someone when the result is reducing their power. It sounds like a false flag operation to me. It would not be the first one.

In a cold war there are many tactics used to "get" the other side. These do include blaming everything on the other side. Argentina is the refuge for many ex Nazi types. How do I know they were not involved? Or maybe it was Hezbollah not IRI. After all it was their leader that was killed. While they are supported by IRI they do not clear every single move with IRI. Until I see proof I reserve judgment. There is enough to condemn IRI on without needing these.


Bavafa

VPK jaan: Don't forget also ...

by Bavafa on

That there has been a cold war going on between these two states or with US. A tit for tat retaliation may not happen days after the tit but the tat is almost guaranteed.

This is why it is important to try to break the cycle of this violate policy which only innocent member of each society pay for it.

If the assassination of the Iranian scientist turns out to be truly the act and order of Mossad, then won't be surprised if we see the tat at some years later in some other form.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad


AMIR1973

Dear VPK,

by AMIR1973 on

Besides the IRI's usual "Marg bar Amrika/Marg bar Esrail" line of thinking to which Reality-Bites correctly alludes, there was also the specific issue of revenge for Israel's assassination of Hezbollah leader Abbas al-Musawi in 1992. Here's a picture of the Islamist turd:

 

//www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2007-07/24/content_5442360.htm 


Reality-Bites

VPK jaan

by Reality-Bites on

Do you mean what other motive does/did the IR have, aside from its long held "marg bar Israel" aim, openly expressing its wish for Israel to disappear and running a proxy war against that state? Well, aside from all that I'm stumped too.

Don't forget though, the IR has changed tactics and operations against those it regards as enemies many times. For example in the 1980s the IR, through its Lebanese Hezbollah allies was behind the kidnapping of Westerners in Lebanon as well as others acts of terrorism such as the 1983 suicide bombing and killing of 240 US marines and 60 French service personnel on peace keeping duties in Beirut.

Nowadays the IR focus more on arming, funding and training its extremist allies in Lebanon, Iraq, Palestinian territories and some allege even in Afghanistan to create havoc in the Middle East.

While on the subject of the Buenos Aires bombing, there was also another bombing of the Israeli embassy in that city in a couple of years earlier that killed 29 people. 

Here is the Wiki article on both bombings.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_AMIA_bombing

 

Article on the 1983 Beirut bombing.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Re: the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

This has puzzled me for a long time. I just do not see the motive. Would someone please explain to me the motive of IRI in doing so? What poassible gain did they have in doing so?


G. Rahmanian

Mammad Says A Lot More:

by G. Rahmanian on

First read his comments on "Unity" here and then read this comment he wrote two months ago. When he insists millions of Iranians must adopt a secondary role in changing Iran he is in fact telling us to become cheer leaders for different types of Islamists. By advocating "support" only for Iranians inside Iran what he really means is putting Iran on a silver platter and offering it to a different brand of Islamists. Read: Let's see what Sobhani says by Mammad on Mon Jun 27, 2011 05:47 PM PD "Secondly, those whom Sobhani or others think can be alternatives, or are propped up as such, can carry out a simple test of their base of power: Ask the people inside Iran to come out at the specific time and place and demonstrate for them, to see what happens, or indicate other reasonable ways of demonstrating their popularity." "Fourth, even if changing by itself gives legitimacy, Sobhani's argument is absurd. The last time I looked, MKO had not changed. The last time I checked, Reza Pahlavi was saying very good things, but many of his supporters - at least most of those that are vocal - had not changed. Just look at what some of them say here in this website!"


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Have syrians stopped rebelling?

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

Seems no news coming out of there.


BoosBoos

Southern Iraq is now effectively controlled by Iran ....

by BoosBoos on

Maybe not all of it, but pretty close.  That's why they want Syria out of the way because they're afraid of a land bridge based on religion.  Iran/So.Iraq/Syria

Saudis are nervous / Israelis are nervous / US is nervous. 


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Guys, You know who finds the Invasion of Iraq Funny?

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

The leadership of Al-quaeda.

They just think it's the funniest thing.


Reality-Bites

You can add

by Reality-Bites on

Muqtada al-Sadr's Shia Madi Army of Iraq to the list of peace loving groups the Islamic Republic funds, arms and provides a-z support for.


vildemose

IRI helping Hizbollah

by vildemose on

//www.brookings.edu/papers/2011/08_hizballah_israel.aspx

Reform requires the consent of the corrupt


vildemose

Assassins of the

by vildemose on

Assassins of the Turquoise Palace [Hardcover]

 An] admirable… look at the September 17, 1992, terror killing of four Kurdish exiles who were holding a meeting in a small restaurant in Berlin… [Hakakian] does a worthy job of presenting the facts through the eyes of the men who survived the shooting and the German authorities who prosecuted the case… the — PW

//www.amazon.com/Assassins-Turquoise-Palace-Roya-Hakakian/dp/0802119115/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1314570288&sr=1-2

Reform requires the consent of the corrupt


AMIR1973

The Professor speaks

by AMIR1973 on

But, what I said was the terrorism that is currently attributed to Islam did not and does not emanate from Iran.

In other words, taking hostages, murdering political opponents abroad, kidnapping people, blowing up embassies, hijacking planes, etc -- all acts in which the IRI has long had a hand in are not acts of terrorism. It's nice to see the moral and intellectual standards of the Professor, who is, by the way, NOT a West-residing propagandist for the Islamist regime. Okay, sure. 

Like Hamas, Hezbollah has carried out terrorist operations (although they were in the 1980s). 

Another lie. The blowing up of the Khobar Towers, the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires, and the Israeli embassy were all terrorist acts that occurred in the 1990s (and those are just 3 of the more prominent attacks that I can recall) -- the message of the Professor being that Hezbollah is a decent "liberation" movement (as if Islamism brings liberation!) and doesn't do those nasty things anymore. Once again, whatever you say, Professor. 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Mammad

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

The problem is that both Hamas and Hizbollah are considered FTO by America. Therefore anything they do gets blamed on Iran. That means Iran is now on the hook for paying damages.

This in my opinion is nonsense because it is biased. If we push this all the way then anyone killed by the "Contra" should sue the USA for damages! How about the Iranian flight 655.

But Iran is not in a position to demand damages while Israel and US are. Iran gets screwed and forced to pay outrageous damages while no one else does. The whole blame game is biased with Iran on the receiving end of it.


Mammad

VPK

by Mammad on

I started out my response to Amir Parviz by saying that Iranians have been the victims of Khomeini's legacy. The statement is as crystal clear as it can be.

But, what I said was the terrorism that is currently attributed to Islam did not and does not emanate from Iran. It has its roots in Salafism and Wahabism in Saudi Arabia. This is even recognized in the West.

Regarding Hamas:  There is no doubt that it has committed terrorism against innocent Jewish citizens of Israel. But, Hamas is first, and foremost, a liberation movement with significant social support. In addition, Hamas has never ever carried out any operation outside Israel, and has never ever claimed to have any broader ambitions. I despise a lot of things that Hamas does, but presenting it as a purely terrorist organization is a great distortion. In my view, even though Hamas receives help from the VF regime, it has its own agenda, independent of Iran.

Regarding Lebanese Hezbollah: Like Hamas, Hezbollah has carried out terrorist operations (although they were in the 1980s). Like Hamas, Hezbollah is far more than that. It is also a powerful political/social force that represents the Shiites, the largest religious group in Lebanon. Like Hamas, it operates a vast network of hospiotals and schools, and provides significant aid to the poor. The European Union recognizes this and has never cutoff contacts with Hezbollah. But, unlike Hamas, Hezbollah is in sync with the VF regime in Iran. That is also clear.

Mammad


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

RG

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I really agree that IRI is hurting the Iranian national cause. Yes they do alienate many regions. But it must be taken into context: they abuse everyone. It is not like they give a big break to "Persians".

Regarding drying of lake Uromieh it is a tragedy. But then Soviets did a number on the Aral Sea. This sort of exploitations is not unique to IRI. I am not defending it! Post Soviet Republics have done nothing to restore the Aral Sea.

If Shah or Pahlavi were in charge we probably would have Tajikistan reunited already. Plus de-facto rule over all of Azarbayjan. Yes IRI messed it up real good! But the goal of me is not to use this to score political point. Rather preserve Iran.


Roozbeh_Gilani

VPK: On "separating Iran"

by Roozbeh_Gilani on

Don't you think that islamist regime is already doing a fine job, by alienating our Kurdish, Balooch , arab and even azaris with their racist shia fars centric policies and pouring oil over the separatist aspirations? Did you see the pan turks popping up in uromieh after the peacefull protests against environmentl disaster (lake uromieh drying up) was broken up by the regime? The regime , under the excuse of attacking Pejak is now laying waste to big parts of kurdestan, purely as a revenge against Kurdish people's brave stance against islamist fascism..... 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Mammad parr II

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on


2. The terrorism that is attributed to Islam - the Al-Qaeda, the Lashkar in Pakistan, and the Taliban in Afghanistan - did not and does not emanate from the IRI or Khomeini. Its roots are in Saudi Arabia - the very regime that has the support of the U.S. - committed by the worst types, the Salafis and Wahabis.

I grant you that 911; and Afghanistan are not IRI's fault. But other things like Hizbollah are. So is major support for Hamas. These provide an excuse to blame Iran for anything no matter what. Even if the proof is flimsy. AN's big mouth does not help. 

Here are examples:

  • The Argentina attack on the Jewish center. I don't buy this; why should Iran attack a Jewish center there. There is no motive or evidence that I have seen for Iranian involvement but Iran gets blamed anyway.
  • There is also Hamas bombing in Jerusalem which in my opinion is an example of "Ambulance Chasing Lawyers". Unfortunately the Persepolis Tablets may become victims of this no matter what.

Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Mammad

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Amirparviz asked this " ... gave the worse name to islam from the view point of iranians?

Note he asked from the point of view of Iranians not West. Imagine if Khomeini had not lied; established a real democracy and gone to Quom as promised. Then AQ and Taliban would not matter to Iranians. We would have said "so what" they are idiots; we did it right. After Khomeini the plan was to have Montazeri replace him. If this had happened there is reason to believe IRI would have reformed. The whole game would be different. Khomeini even in his death harmed Iran.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

RG: VPK, on "Unity in US"

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Do you think the islamist regime can be reformed into a scular democratic state at all? 

I doubt it. That means no.

Dear RG whenever we talk of removing IRI people remind us of plans to
break Iran. I wanted to remind people that Iran is not the only one in
danger. That Russia already broke. And that USA is in the same
position. I want to take a position of "reintegrating" Greater Iran.
The idea is "the best defense is a good offense". Instead of begging US
not to break Iran we take the position of wanting all of the lost
regions. Then they will be glad if we "settled" for what we got and
maybe half the additional parts! 


BoosBoos

My views on your tactic are here ... you didn't read it.

by BoosBoos on


yolanda

.......

by yolanda on

Great post! Thank you, vildemose!


vildemose

 who are you? Are you a

by vildemose on

 who are you? Are you a supporter of the IRI and VF? Do you endorse the IRI's policies and actions?? And why do you assume that nobody but you knows about neocons, imperialism and the zionists??

Don't be a gutless, spinless supporter of the regime; be proud and stand up for what you believe in. Do you feel like you are sell out when others point out facts about the IRI? Is that why you immediately try to whitewash it by pushing America's wrong doings as if two wrongs make right..

Reform requires the consent of the corrupt


BoosBoos

I'm an Enigma? I don't play "Iranian-McCarthyism"

by BoosBoos on


I'm not an enigma:  

First, you should see that I don't play the "Iranian-McCarthyism" game.  If you don't know what "Iranian-McCarthyism" is, here's a link.  

//iranian.com/main/blog/boosboos/iranian-...

Secondly, I am against the war-mongers and advocates for militant groups that roam this site, and I use QUOTES when I make my claims -- you should do the same. 

 

  • “ by Simorgh5555 on Fri Aug 26, 2011 01:33 PM PDT  Anyother reason to hesitate against waging war on the IR? For the sake of LakeUrumieh, for the thousands of trees cutdown in Kurdistan, for the Caspian, forthe Alborz mountains please support military action.  MilitaryAction can save Lake Urumieh.”

 

 


 

  • "by Masoud Kazemzadeh on SunAug 21, 2011 03:03 PM PDT I believe that the PMOI is not a terrorist entity"

 

 

Note: PMOI/MEK stands for People'sMujahedin of Iran,a militant Islamic-Marxist group on the U.S. StateDepartment's list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations. (See, U.S.D.S., CountryReportson Terrorism, OFFICE OF THE COORDINATOR FOR COUNTERTERRORISM, April 30,2007 at Chap. 6.); (see also, Official Journal of the European Union;CommonPosition on Terrorism, listing PMOI/MEK.)


vildemose

 boosboos, You are an

by vildemose on

 boosboos, You are an enigma to me. What are you're trying to achieve here on IC? How do you connect American imperialist actions in the ME with justifying the Khomienist vampiric criminal incompetent government and its treatment of its citizens and plundering of Iranian national collective wealth?? What does one have to do with the other?? Please tell us why we should all shut up and support the VF status quo??

Do you think supporting the status quo and the leadership of IRI is going to magically change the geopolitical realties of the region? Do you think the IRI is the ME savior from the hegemonic clutches of the "great satan"??

Are you trying to  convince us  that there is no place for dissent no matter what IRI does and   questioning the dear leader is forbidden and we should all keep all mouths shut because the IRI is doing all this atrocities because in the end it's for the greater good, namely, kicking the US of  the ME region??

Do you really think if tomorrow the US closed all of its bases and left the ME  to its own devices ,everything will be hunky dory and we will all be living happily ever after under the auspices of emam rahel, Khameni??

Why do you keep parroting the regim's talking points mindlessly and dutifully without being really aware of wha you are saying.

Reform requires the consent of the corrupt


BoosBoos

Amir1979 ... "Iranian Slaves"

by BoosBoos on

Want to speak candidly about American actions in Iraq ... then look at facts.

//iranian.com/main/blog/boosboos/iranian-slaves 


Mammad

Amir Parviz: No

by Mammad on

Khomeini's legacy is the VF regime and the executions of the 1980s. One must be totally blind not to see this. We Iranians were the victims, and the 1979 Revolution played a highly important role in awakening political Islam. But, two points are worth pondering:

1. Two years before the 1979 Revolution, General Mohamed Zia ul-Hagh overthrew the democratuically elected government of Pakistan led by Zolfaghar Ali Bhutto, established the first Islamic Republic, and rewrote a new Constitution with strictinterpretation of Sharia. The U.S. supported himn to the last moment. It was his regime that began the nuclear program of Pakistan and with the U.S. support began arming the Afghan Mujahedin - the latter day Al-Qaeda.

2. The terrorism that is attributed to Islam - the Al-Qaeda, the Lashkar in Pakistan, and the Taliban in Afghanistan - did not and does not emanate from the IRI or Khomeini. Its roots are in Saudi Arabia - the very regime that has the support of the U.S. - committed by the worst types, the Salafis and Wahabis.

The U.S. does not say it, but it is Saudi Arabia that is the craddle for these extremists. It is Saudi funds that support the Madrasas in Pakistan and elsewhere. And it was from Saudi Arabia that 80 percent of foreigners (excluding U.S. and its allies)  went to Iraq and fought. And, unfortunately, it is Saudi Arabia that supports much of the demonstrations in Syria.

Mammad


AMIR1973

  Nearly every single

by AMIR1973 on

 

Nearly every single word in the Professor's "response" to me and others is false. Here's a sample of the falsehoods, half-truths, and lies of omission and commission:

As horrible as Saddam's regime was, the type of strife we saw in Iraq was triggered only by and after the invasion itself.

The Professor "forgets" to mention the history of "strife" in Saddam's Iraq consisting of his genocide against Kurds in northern Iraq and his massacres of Marsh Arabs and other residents of southern Iraq. The Great Satan must have "triggered" that "strife" as well (in the minds of Islamists, the Great Satan is the Devil and therefore responsible for Evil in this world. All Evil can be traced in one way or another to the Great Satan. This is a hard habit for Islamists to break). 

 

 

There, the responsibility was squarely on the people themselves. In Iraq's case, that is not the case. The Geneva Convention and other relevant international agreement hold the ocupying power responsible for the security of the occupied. The Geneva Convention does not distinguish between occupying Germany after WW II and Iraq in 2003. All are the same.

 

And yet strangely enough, there were no terrorist massacres in post-war Germany nor in Japan nor in South Korea (compared to the countless such massacres that have occurred in Iraq and Afghanistan at the hands of Islamist and Arab terrorists). But if there had been any such massacres in those countries, rest assured the Great Satan would have been the responsible party. No need to worry: the Professor has reassured the anti-American terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan that the Geneva Conventions and Colin Powell have both absolved them of all moral responsibility whatsoever for the civilians that they deliberately target for murder time after time after time. They are not responsible for their own actions, the Great Satan is.

 

More importantly, the point is the anti-Muslims and anti-Islam people in these pages always make it look like Muslims have murdered vast number of people around the world, and are the cause of everything that is going wrong around the world, or at least in the Middle Eart.  Nonsense.

 

There are several lies contained in this one. First of all, I can speak only for myself, and I can state that I have made a particular point of specifying Islamists and not Muslims. The distinction is the same as that between the Cambodians and Khmer Rouge or between Russians and Stalinists, etc. 

You use a racist label invented by the neocons - Islamist - to attack people like me, and you constantly label me!

 

So the term Islamist was invented by "neocons"! Here's what Wikipedia states: 

The term Islamism was coined in eighteenth-century France as a way of referring to Islam. Earliest known use of the term identified by the Oxford English Dictionary is 1747.

 

Got that? The "neocons" coined the term back in the 1700s (two centuries before they appeared in this world)! 

 

So, you mean Islamists - a racist term by itself - are born liars? 

 

This is brilliant! So Islamism, a political ideology, has been transformed into a race! Therefore, the term Islamist is now a racial epithet! Just behold the logic at work. Next, we will be told that "fascist" and "Stalinis"t also are racial epithets and should be avoided. We should not use terms like "fascist killers" or "Stalinist liars", because that would be racist. Whatever you say, Professor.