religion out of government

Our struggle

Houshang, please be patient with me, like I said, I will address the current economic crisis later. Thanks

Roozbeh:

I started reading your post, agreeing with you 100%:

"The current struggle in Iran is not an ideological struggle. It is a struggle by all iranians for the shared value of freedom and democracy.

The  forthcoming battle in Iran will be betweeen an anti fascist front representing all sectors of iranian society, and the criminal, fascist islanic regime."

So far so good. Then you I started scratching my head when you said:

"I believe that this battle would have the highest chance of real success, achieving it's goals of a democratic, secular republic if  led by a political party representing the working classes of Iran. Why? Because Working classes have the interests of Iran's industry, commerce, agriculture, all the natural resources, and military to defend it all, in their hearts. These are interests shared by all Iranians, but no other social class in Iran has such broad interest in all above."

Contradictions:

1. Not an ideologic struggle but a class struggle!!

2. Democratic movement but led by "one political party" ?? 

3. "An anti-fascist front representing all sectors of Iranian society" but picking one class as the chosen one with broader interests??

May be we have different definitions of democracy. That certainly would explain a lot. Like your initial comment, I believe the struggle should include everyone. However, I believe we should stress a democratic system based on free votes, public accountability, public representation, following the constitution. I set no prerequisite for who should be involved or what group or party should lead. In fact, I oppose any emphasis on any party or group but would like to see more emphasis on the democratic system itself. It is the system and the constitution that will protect our freedoms and prevent tyranny. 

Lastly, I believe there is a distinction between who the working class really is and those bleeding hearts who are supposedly fighting for them. Are you from a working class working in a factory, or any of the active members of the many communist parties are from "the working class"? Most of you guys are foreign educated, wealthy intellectuals from North Tehran. I want to see everyone express their own opinions and protect their own right by using their free votes protected by the constitution. 

The shift

I don't know about communists, or specifically Hezb-e komonist-e Kargari or Tudeh (for they don't even necessarily represent all communist entities in Iran), but as it is evident in Iranian labour movement (e.g. the bus drivers union, Haft Tappeh workers protests, textile workers sit-ins...) , that leftist and specifically socialist ideals have taken a shift from intellectual-based ideals to a working class vehicle for social change. It sure has receded from the social pop culture scene over the past three decades, but that's only a part of the growing pains!

Socialism as a TRANSITION towards a more equitable society

the current struggle in Iran is an anti fascist struggle

is not an ideological struggle. It is a struggle by all iranians for the shared value of freedom and democracy.

The  forthcoming battle in Iran will be betweeen an anti fascist front representing all sectors of iranian society, and the criminal, fascist islanic regime. I believe that this battle would have the highest chance of real success, achieving it's goals of a democratic, secular republic if  led by a political party representing the working classes of Iran. Why? Because Working classes have the interests of Iran's industry, commerce, agriculture, all the natural resources, and military to defend it all, in their hearts. These are interests shared by all Iranians, but no other social class in Iran has such broad interest in all above.

I want to be clear also, that the experience of what happened in Soviet Union, China , E. Europe, has taught me  that socialism without democracy can simply not survive. Nor would Democracy without Socialisn. (Just see how the hard won personal liberties in certain western societies are being eroded away, slowly but surely)

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Communist Parties

Houshang and Roozbeh, Thank you both for your responses. I would like to address some issues, answer some questions and raise some more questions. I may have to do this over several posts, so please stay tuned.

 Firstly, let me address why I mentioned The Worker's Communist Party. We started the discussion in a blog about Maryam Namazie. She is a member of the central committee of the WCP. That is why I brought them as an example. 

I just did a google search for the 2 words Iran and Communist and in the first page I had 4 links to WCP 2 for the Tudeh party and one for  Communist Party of Iran. I am not surprised that there are many parties each believing they are the "true" believers and that the rest are "wrong" and not "true communists" and possibly do not understand Carl Marx as well as they should. This is true for any ideology as the blueprint for society becomes subject to interpretation. Just look at the many different sects in any religion. Very very similar!

I agree that there is a spectrum of forces on the left. This is true for any society and any country. My blog was not directed to people working for better worker's conditions and rights within a free society. I am talking about ideologues dreaming about a society with no private property ownership and complete equality. Just read the following:

 Ali Javadi: If the WPI takes power and a Socialist Republic is established in Iran, how will society and life in the Socialist Republic be?

Hamid Taqvaee: The Socialist Republic of Iran will be a human, free and open system. It will be a system in which there will be no sign of class conflict; societal divisions that are based on the one hand, a tiny section with a mountain of wealth and on the other, a vast majority who live in poverty, will be eradicated. The objective of production will be to meet people's needs. As soon as it is established and as a first step, the Socialist Republic will provide the basic needs of all, such as health care, education, housing, electricity, water, transportation and other public services for free. Also, the youth, women and vast sections of society who have especially over the last quarter of a century been denied their most basic rights under the Islamic Republic, will enjoy a life free from inequality and discrimination. The Socialist Republic will open its borders and freely and unconditionally allow everyone to come to Iran, both those who want to live in Iran or those who just want to visit, so they can see for themselves what a socialist society is like. Socialism in Iran will present a modern, progressive and human system and will be an example for the world and international public opinion. It will show that when capital's fetters are removed from society, human beings can organise a free and equal society by relying on their own conscious power and will.

Beautiful! May be we should all listen to this guy. What a wonderful society; equality for all, no class conflict, no discrimination, absolute heaven!! But in reality, he is completely insulting my intelligence. He sounds iike Khomeini in Paris! And that is exactly my point of this blog and critism of communism as an ideology wanting to be a blueprint for a society. We have seen this sort of thing before and our people will not be fooled again. Do you see my point??

I will address the current economic turmoil in a different post.

Thanks 

به سوی برگزاری هرچه باشکوه تر روز دانشجو در سراسر ایران

//www.payam.se/index.php?option=com_content&v...

Let me respond point by point:

1) This political party (whom I actually know little about), is a fringe organisation and by no means represents the left/socialist/marxist/communist movement in Iran. In contrast,  Kurdistan alone, Komeleh/CPI enjoy huge popular support. In general if you ask an Iranian inside Iran if he is a "communist", he would not tell you that he is one even if he was, for obvious reasons. But here you are making a fundamental mistake. The strength of revolutionary socialist parties is not in the numerical strength of their card carrying members, but in the fact that they represent the interests of the most revolutionary classes of the society, namely the industrial working class. In a revolutionary situation, a well organised revolutionary socialist party would take advantatage ......

2) Tudeh party never was a revolutionary socialist/communist party. It started as a centre left party, aligning itself to Soviet Union, and by some accounts becoming an agent of soviet policy in Iran. Lots of Iranian Marxists I have come across in fact despise Tudeh and consider it to be a traitor to Socialist movement, citing it's collaboration with Khomeini/Islamist regime.

3) I covered Tudeh already. As for MEK, combining aethist Marxist ideology with Islam is at best stupid idea. I blame shariati for this mess,.

4) Eastern Europe became "socialist" due to it's capture by red army. Russian Revolution was more or less in retreat after Lenin's death. You are right, we need many blogs to debate the reasons for that...

5) For anecdotal evidence see the meeting at Tehran University that Hooshang provided the link for. For anecdotal evidance see the rising strikes and idustrial actions by the Iranian industrial workers and their increasingly militant demands...

6) I agree with you. Do you realise that Marx never considered his work and ideas as an ideology?

And yes my friend, there will always be idealists, and where would we, the human race  be without ideas and idealist??

A final note, you dont need to have heard of Marx. lenin, etc to be a Marxist/socialist. You can sense it and learn it by life's experience, and then you pick up a book and say: My god, am I glad that this bearded guy on cover of this book thinks just like me?!!

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Please see

About Obama's speech on Egypt

So says Mr Obama
On the Egypt drama
He emphasised and he told
We see history unfold
It is time to transform
And time to give some reform

Continue >>>>>>>>

With all due respect, your assesment is incorrect on many

different levels.

Why?

1) Taking Majedi and her party (actually it was her husband's party) as an example of communist thought in Iran is the biggest mistake to begin with. The sect that she and Namazi belong to are one of the most discredited sects that we have in Iranian political life. Further more that party is really only an exile creation, with hardly any base or  support inside the country.

2) For a serious balanced, critical assesment of popularity of communism, and in   general Leftist thought one ought to observe and study how each year, three days are celeberated in Iran. March 8th, 17 Esfand (International Working Women's Day), May First, 11 Ordibehesht (Interantional Workers' Day), and 16 Azar (students' Day in Iran for the past 60 years). If you had paid attention to any of these event in the past five years, you would have actually noticed an increase in participation and the extent of these events throughout the country. The Left in Iran for the past five years ( and this has its own reasons, which I don't have time to get into in here) has been augmented and reinforced. From shop-floors to campuses to...

3) Communism is only one strand of Leftist thought, there are many other variations which similiarlly point out to cooperation and non-profit motives (use-value) as basics of their ideas: including but not limited to : social-democrats, socialists, anarchist, communitarianists,...

4) With the global economy of the verge of a meltdown, Karl's critique of Capitalism, and its chronic crisis, deserves a very serious consideration. Cheers

P.S. Below is a report from a lecture held in Tehran University last week. 

جلسه بررسی اقتصادی - اجتماعی جنبش وال استریت در دانشگاه تهران

بدیل ما سوسیالیسم است

//www.eshterak.info/news/2011/11/---23.html

P.S.S. 16 Azar is only a few days away. Tis shall be a proper venue to gauge the strength of the aforementioned school of thought(s). 

Roozbeh,

Sorry for calling you Behrooz!!!!