Tell Israel What to Do

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Onlyiran
by Onlyiran
12-Oct-2009
 

Since I see posts everyday on this site by the usual crowd telling us how bad Israel is for threatening to attack Iran, I want the same crowd to answer this simple question:

In response to 30 years of “marg bar Israel”, open calls for Israel to be “wiped off the map” (that’s what he said, don’t sugarcoat it), arming and funding every anti-Israeli group on the planet and militarily attacking Israel through its proxy Hezbollah, what should Israel do in response?  Here, I’ll make it a multiple choice answer so you don’t have to exert yourselves too much: 

1)      thank the IRI for bringing it to its attention that it (Israel) is an illegitimate government that should just go away;

2)      send the IRI a basket of flowers;

3)      send IRI cheerleaders and propagandists a basket of flowers;

4)      disperse all the pesky Jews back to wherever they came from;

5)      come to the realization that “marg bar Israel” is actually a call to action and it should implement it and just die;

6)      Never, ever, ever use the military strategy of deterrence when it is being told by a hostile country that it does not have a right to exist and where the leader of that hostile country wears a checkered chafiyeh symbolizing the fact that reaching “ghods” is his ultimate goal.  And when the hostile country is arming militant groups that are sitting at its border.

7)      all of the above.

PS/ please do not filibuster this by talking about Israel’s crimes against the Palestinians, because I will probably agree with you on that subject.  I just want an answer to what Israel’s response should be toward Iran in light of 30 years of open hostility, threats and military action by the IRI against it.

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Onlyiran

Mehrdad Jaan

by Onlyiran on

I think that Israel is told that everyday by various people around the world...and to large extent, it deserves it.  You and I have had this debate before.  You will get no argument from me about the nature of the Israeli government, especailly the series of governments that it has had post-1967 war (even the so-called liberal ones).  It has been all about expansion and land grab through brut force.  My point is that we can speak up against it, but why should we push the issue to the detriment of our people.  The Israeli / Palestinian conflict is an interntaional issue that should be dealt with accordingly.  Iranians shoudl not, and more importantly, cannot, be the sacrificial lambs for this cause.

Actually, Abarmard raises a fascinating question that I have wondered about quite often.  I have my own theories as to why Israel was created when it was created and where it was created.  But That will take quite some time for me to elaborate on, and I will probably do it tomorrow.

Abaramard jaan, as mentioned above, I will respond to your very important comment tomorrow when I have more time. 


Bavafa

how about: go f*&k itself but they are already doing it,

by Bavafa on

don't they?

I mean the way they are going, they are ensuring that there won't be any Israel soon?

Mehrdad


Abarmard

OnlyIran

by Abarmard on

Good points were made here. The reason why Iran is so interested in that area can be analyzed by the other side of the equation as why the US is so interested in that area. The core reason for the creation of Israel might be hidden piece of the puzzle.Not only Iran has a right to look outward to the region to secure its position, it is the policy of all countries that can, if they have a say.

The balance of power creates options that is beneficial for the region as a whole. If you got one side with power and the rest can't have say, there are no negotiations and the rights of countries can be forgone as it has historically. As Iranian policies have been horrible in handling the internal affairs, they have been practical, reasonable and right to the point in her regional policies. Israeli government is well aware that Iran poses no threat to her existence, however they are not pleased to have a rival to challenge its rules and actions against its neighbors.

No powerful country has been able to survive without holding some valuable assets that go beyond their borders. Eventually some countries are catching up to this strategy. You may realize the benefits of having some cards in the region, be it Iraq, Lebanon, and eastern Afghanistan as time goes by. This doesn't translate that there are no challenges to overcome and Iran can sit relaxed feeling secure.

On the contrary, Iran is trying to create a policy based on establishment of regional values that agrees with the Iranian policies rather than take the silent fellowship role.

Why should Iran do this? Why is England all over the place? US navy around the globe and all over the Persian Gulf waters. It's a dirty game that independent countries can play, if they have created that position to stand firm.

Look at the most recent speech made by Ahmadinejad. I believe that it will give you a very clear and direct way to look ahead about where the objective of the Iranian foreign policy is based on. You do not need to agree with him, but he will spell them out for you. We can go from there. Then, if you read it, we can discuss this further and it will be very interesting and fruitful debate.Happy Monday.


Onlyiran

Hi everyone

by Onlyiran on

Sorry for the delay, but here are some responses:

Abarmard.  It's not just the chants of marg bar israel.  It's IRI 's stated doal since its inception, which is "liberating "ghods" from its Zionist occupiers".  they said that this was their ultimate goal from day one.  Why?  Why should this be Iran's goal?  What's it to us?!!!  israel is bad, but there are many other countries in the world that are just as bad, including, first and foremost, IRI's closest friend, Russia.  Why should Israel be our concern? 

Let's look at it this way.  Let's say that I move into a neighborhood.  Suddenly, I begin to pick on my neighbor across the street, and start throwing rocks at his window.  I also claim that the neighbor should leave the neighborhood.  After a while, that neighbor starts throwing rocks back at me and strats to get aggressive with me.  Can I then complain and blame the neighbor for his conduct, or was it my fault to start the fight to begin with? 

The prblme with us Iranians is that we can't see our own faults, and the situation with Israel is another example of this arrogance.  That's why we still can bring ourselves to see the reality of the situation and blame the IRI for the conflict that it started 30 years ago with Israel and which it still carries on.  We blame everyone else but ourselves.

I also diagree with you that having two powers in the region is a good thing.  Just remember what happened to the world when there was the same situation between the U.S. and the old USSR.  Remember what the U.S. did in places such as South America and Vietnam, and the Soviets did in Eastern Europe in the name of defending their ideologies?  The same can happen, and is, in fact happening in the ME because of the conflict between IRI and Israel.

All that being said, please note that I enjoy your comments and please keep on writing.

alimostofi: non-violence is always the best option.

Setareh...whatever: you shall be ignored until you learn some manners and stop personal attacks.    

Gozidi: love your username.  I agree with the exception that I do not blame people's religion, whether it be Islam, Christianity, etc.  We should respect everyone's religion.  we will get nowhere by insulting peoples' beliefs.

Ch kahaber: thanks for the comment.  I do agree with you on the point that one can get news from other sources, even in the U.S.  The other points I addressed in my response to Abarmard.

Ashna: thanks for the link.  Everyone should watch that clip.  It's informative even if you disagree with its point of view.

Marge: where have you been sista?!!!!! wlecome back.  Yes, Mahmoud is hairy.

Red Wine: agree with you bro.  change has to come from within and not from the oustide.

Benross and Mirza: Thanks for the comment.  Mirza: Benross' point is that we should be talking about how to bring about a secular democracy to Iran rather than being obsessed with Israel.  It's a very good point.


میرزاقشمشم

Your English or, mine?

by میرزاقشمشم on

خواهش میکنم یکی از حاضرین، مطلب «بنراس» را  برای منهم ترجمه کند. وجود پهلوی چی های اسرائیلی به غنای بحث کمک میکند. مگه کی ، چی گفت ؟که او جلسه را مختومه اعلام کرد.


I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek

i don't like mahmoud, vali

by I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek on

it seems like the israelis and americans are just pissed that they can't do a damn thing about this loud, hairy iranian. what a pain. nothing a little bombing and nuking can't fix! 

what a joke israel has become. 


che khabar e

jeez abarmard

by che khabar e on

Take a pill, will ya? 

You make comments that target Israel as the sole harbinger of war threats (and believe me... I DO consider "death to israel" a war threat)... and when it's pointed out that there ARE two sides (as YOU pointed out), you cry foul. 

Did I say it was all Iran's fault?  NO I DID NOT.  So don't waste your time going there. 

I pointed out truths to you. What part do you wish to debate?  That Iran has portrayed herself as an enemy to the US (via "death to the great satan" and "death to the US") and Israel is not?

When a country shouts "death to..." on a daily basis, they are a threat.   Period.


Red Wine

...

by Red Wine on

بچه گانه است اگر بخواهیم خارجی‌‌ها بروند و با آخوند‌ها بجنگند ! در هیچ زمانی‌ از تاریخ ما، اجنبی دوست ایرانی نبود و نخواهد بود ! خارجی‌ به دنبال جیب خود است و جان شیرین خودش !

به خدا قسم اگر همه گان متحد شویم،کمتر از ۳ روز این مارمولک‌ها جا را خالی‌ خواهند کرد و فرار خواهند کرد...

دم از اتحاد زنید و راه اینجور مبارزه را نشان دهید وگرنه خروار خروار مقاله نوشتن و ادای دیوید فراست در آوردن و پا بوسی خارجی‌ کردن هیچ دردی را از ما ایرانی‌ دوا نخواهد کرد !

 


benross

If the goal is not the

by benross on

If the goal is not the establishment of a secular democracy in Iran, and everything else being evaluated based on this goal and its values, then there is no point discussing the matter.


Abarmard

che khabar e

by Abarmard on

You are saying that it is Iran's fault. True? Iran is a threat to world peace, to Israel and to the peaceful US policies? Correct?

Fine, believe what you like and enjoy rest of your Monday.


che khabar e

abarmard

by che khabar e on

The problem with many people is that they are falling for reports that focuses only on side of the story. You're right but remember that works both ways.

We rarely get to hear the real reports and Israeli position about Iran or the region, when they are based on their horrible policies.  But you're so sure that you're getting the "real" reports from the IRI?

As you might know, the US is not allowed to criticize Israel, so you are not going to hear much about their actions and policies, yet you hear a lot about Iran.  Let me remind you that Israel is NOT an enemy of the US, yet Iran via the IRI HAS proclaimed itself to be an enemy of the US.   Saying the US is not allowed to criticize Israel is a childish (at best) statement.  Remind me again how Iranians get to criticize the IRI... please.

And also... Israel has every right to feel that Iran is HER enemy too so please don't make this about IRI NOT threatening everyone else.

Seterah... apparently you too believe that the IRI is harmless in it's threats against both Israel and the US.  Be assured that no one else does.

I'm no more "amused" by Iran's threats than I am Israels.


goozidi

مرگ بر اسلام -

goozidi


مرگ بر اسلام - مرگ بر اسرائیل - مرگ بر آمریکا - زنده با د سرزمین زرتشت

اخوندم و اخوندم - من مال مردم خوردم

آخوند به طاس ریده - کشک خورده ماست ریده

Israel is evil and destroctive . USA is sending $3 trillion / year to  Israel. 


Setareh Cheshmakzan

Onlyiran

by Setareh Cheshmakzan on

Speaking against the IR's brutal and inhumane treatment of its citizens does not necessarily require siding with Israel.
Iran is not an 'existential threat' to Israel despite what everyone (even here in iranian.com) seems to be implying. Ahmadi-Nedjad's rhetoric is only 'words' but the real threat is coming from Israel as Abarmard stated in his comment and I don't need to repeat.
You seem to think the real threat of obliterating Iran is somehow an amusing subject and apparently are attempting to make light of the situation, trying to score some point for the pro-Israeli group on this site maybe? Perhaps you should change that username ;-)

 


alimostofi

How about the option "None

by alimostofi on

How about the option "None of the above" as violence is wrong.

Ali Mostofi

//www.alimostofi.com

 


Abarmard

?

by Abarmard on

Iran has a regional interest and strategy, so does Israel. saying Marg bar Israel is not as bad as your officials declare preemptive strike, or as Netanyahoo calls it, 100,000 Iranian who "could" die in that strike who will be  "just collateral damage"! He doesn't seem to mind or perceives any problem with his logic either. It's not acceptable and Iran should stand strong against this kind of rhetoric. This is national interest for Iranian people and our interest in the Middle East; This is not only an issue with the Islamic Republic. Turkey has also recently join that political philosophy and I believe that it's just the beginning.

The problem with many people is that they are falling for reports that focuses only on side of the story. We rarely get to hear the real reports and Israeli position about Iran or the region, when they are based on their horrible policies. As you might know, the US is not allowed to criticize Israel, so you are not going to hear much about their actions and policies, yet you hear a lot about Iran.

Iran has every right to feel Israel is her enemy, as US did with Soviets, or India with Pakistan. As long as there are balance of power, the region will benefit. Iran is a balance to a one sided policies of the West and US along with their war machine (Israeli government) that historically endangers peace and stability in our region. Note that the region is more valuable to Iran and her neighbors that those foreigners who will blow their dirt and trash the remains once done with it!

In this specific case, it is Israel that needs to decent its high horse and join the regional issues, governments and normalize its relations based on mutual respect rather than threats and muscle.

For what's worth, Iran will never accept Israeli attitude and it seems like they are not losing the battle either.

Note that we are speaking about foreign policies and not domestic. Generally I am giving up to comment about many issues, since people tend to hear, then instead of investigating the debate, they go back and blah blah their normal mind set; as if nothing has been learned. I am just not in to that and it has been getting boring:)

 


Onlyiran

Minoo Jan

by Onlyiran on

I actually agree with you on the Shah issue insofar as his own corruption was his undoing.  But what does that have to do with Israel, and why should Israel "admit" it?  I'm sorry, but I just don't see the connection.


Minoo66

It's not funny anymore

by Minoo66 on

8) None of the above.

Israel should, and hopefully will, publicly admit one simple historical fact: it was the Shah's own corrupt and dictatorial system which caused his downfall and consequential hardship for many an Iranian including, and not limited to, the Jews.  

Israel has no scientifically-proven evidence that the Pahlavists are their only safe bet for securing their borders and containing anti-semitic sentiment in Iran.

We  all agree on one fact:  the necessity of the removal of IRI.  The shape and nature of the Iranian government on the "day after" remains a healthy agenda.     

 

 


Onlyiran

Moosir Jan

by Onlyiran on

Israel is no angel.  It commits atrocities against defenseless Palestinains that are inhumane and are nothing but crimes against humanity.  In fact, I think that for starters, evry Israeli official who was involved in the recent Gaza conflict should be brought to justice for crimes against humanity.  But that's whole different story that has nothing to do with Iran.

And as far as what Israel has done for the past thirty years against Iran, I agree.  it has said, done, and has tried to do many things.  But would it have done so if it wasn't for IRI, which started the hostilities with Israel?


MOOSIRvaPIAZ

What you say is only part of the story...

by MOOSIRvaPIAZ on

You talk as if Israel is an angel. They welcomed the Iran-Iraq conflict (selling weapons to both sides in order to weaken both sides). 

Ever since the revolution, they've maintained and doubled effort in their containment policy of encouraging nations to sanction and isolate the regime.

As a consequence of both actions, the radicals inside Iran have grown ever more powerful. We now see the IRGC playing monopoly over every aspect of Iranian society.  Iranian people are a hostage to this regime and freeing them non-violently is becoming harder every day.

The problem with the Israelis and their US idealists is that they think isolating a nation and airdropping troops on either sides and shouting demcracy will help Iranians get their country back.