"Dangerous Delusion from Chrisitianity": The Baha'i view on Freedom of Conscience

NUR
by NUR
12-Mar-2009
 

//www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm

 "We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in the  greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith."

//www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html Search for full
text. (Edit > Find > "conscience")

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NUR

About Haifan Bahais: CAUTION

by NUR on

Start HERE (Sourcewatch):

//www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Baha%27i_Faith

 

See as well, BAHA'I INTERNET AGENCY, 

//www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Baha%E2%80%99i_Internet_Agency

SECTS OF BAHAIS: A Taxonomy of Baha'i Sects, //www.sectsofbahais.com/

&

Documentary film by independent Israeli film maker Naama Pyritz:
BAHA'IS IN MY BACKYARD
//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2877478116441126906&hl=en-AU

-
US NSA (US BAHA'I NATIONAL SPIRITUAL ASSEMBLY) vs OBF (Orthodox Baha'i Faith)

Recent court victory by the Orthodox Baha'is, and the suit brought by the Haifan Bahai organization against them:
//trueseeker.typepad.com/true_seeker/court_case.html

Judge's decision
//www.truebahai.info/court/139-opinion.pdf

**Appellate hearing (Feb 2009)***
//www.ca7.uscourts.gov/tmp/LF1FFZY0.mp3

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BAHAI Tactics & Techniques - CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

"Slanderous Vilification" = The Baha'i Technique - Ad Hominem, Libel, Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Ostracize, Shun, Banish, Backbite, Defame, Vilify, Discredit, Smear, Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully, Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Blackball, Deceive, Coerce, Silence, Harass... etc., etc....  CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

1. As far as possible they hold back from responding
2. Then they claim no knowledge of the given issue by feigning
ignorance
3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind,
biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to
the main issue exposed)
5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer,
i.e. shoot the messenger
6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on
the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed while supporting the bahais and their issues as so-called non-bahais

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THEORY OF BAHA’I LYING & EQUIVOCATION

See Susan Stiles Maneck,
//bahai-library.com/bsr/bsr06/62_maneck_hikmat.htm
WISDOM AND DISSIMULATION IN THE BAHA’I WRITINGS: The Use and meaning of Hikmat in the Baha’i Writings

Quote
"In many cases hikmat calls for the apparent suspension of a Bahá'í principle in order to ensure the protection of the Faith."

-

BAHA'I ADMINISTRATIVE IDOLATRY & STALINISM

QUOTE
"We don't want to be like those people who want to see God with their own eyes, or hear His melody with their own ears, because we have been given the gift of being able to see through the eyes of the House of Justice and listen through the ears of the House of Justice." - Bahai Counselor Rebeque Murphy

To hear this section of her talk go to:
//media1.bahai.us/tab/Highlights/Sunday/30_Counselor_Murphy_Rema...

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BAHAI NOTIONS of FREEDOM of CONSCIENCE according to EX-UHJ member DOUGLAS MARTIN --  Monday, September 23, 2001

//www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/DMartin.htm

Quote 

"We have inherited a dangerous delusion from Christianity that our
individual conscience is supreme. This is not a Baha'i belief. In the
end, in the context of both our role in the community and our role in
the  greater world, we must be prepared to sacrifice our personal
convictions or opinions. The belief that individual conscience is
supreme is equivalent to "taking partners with God" which is abhorrent to the Teachings of the Faith
."
//www.bahai-library.org/talks/martin.watson.html

NOTE especially, S.G. Wilson,
BAHAISM AND RELIGIOUS ASSASSINATION The Muslim World vol. 4, issue 4, 1914
&
BAHAISM AND RELIGIOUS DECEPTION The Muslim World, Volume 5, Issue 2, 1914-1915.
at,
//wahidazal66.googlepages.com/babidocuments%28westernsources%29

See as well, BAHAISM AND THE BRITISH
//bahaisandbritannia.googlepages.com/home

BAHA’I CONTROL ON THEIR ELECTORAL SYSTEM – EXPOSED (Structural
features of Bahai Stalinism)
//groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/t...

-

In
Ma'idih-i-Asmani, vol. 4, page 355
//reference.bahai.org/fa/t/b/MAS4/mas4-355.html

Translation by Wahid Azal (Jan. 7, 2009)
Chapter 11


The Critics of the Cause of God (munkirin-i-amru'llah)

The Ancient Beauty in the Tablet of Habib from Maragha, which begins with "H B hear the call of God from the direction of the throne by the protective signs/verses (bi-ayati muhayyimin)..etc." they [i.e. Husayn 'Ali Nuri] enunciate the command (mi-farmayand) [i.e. state],

 

By God, the Truth, whomsoever criticizes it [i.e. Baha'ism], [which is] possessed of the manifest, the brilliant, the high and the perspicuous excellence, it behoveth him to ask his mother [yanbaghi lahu bi-an yas'al min ummihi] about his origins [or 'state', i.e.'hal', meaning he should inquire his mother about his legitimate conception – trans.], for he shall return to the nethermost hell [asfal al-jahim]"…

In Promulgation of Universal Peace p. 322 the following is quoted by 'Abbas Effendi from a prayer by his father, cf. THE BAHA'I FAITH AND ISLAM (ed.) Heshmat Moayyad (The Association for Baha'i Studies: Ottawa, 1990), p.23


O God! Whomsoever violates My Covenant, O God, humiliate him. Verily whosoever violates My Covenant, erase and efface him.

See as well,
//www.bayanic.com [CLICK tab BAHAISM]

 

CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

[Comment and time of posting recorded in the event of deletion by the censor of this site]


NUR

HAIFAN BAHAISM EXPOSED TO THE WORLD, READ ALL ABOUT IT!

by NUR on


CAUTION DETOUR AHEAD

NUR is finally exposed before all, READ ALL ABOUT IT !

by CAUTION DETOUR AHEAD on


NUR

No shame...you answer first SAVAKi

by NUR on

1) Who are you and what is your real name?

2)  What creed or organization do you belong to?

3) What position do you occupy?

4) Are you now or have you ever worked on behalf of the Baha'i Internet Agency headed by Matthew Weinberg at the Baha'i World Center in Haifa, occupied Palestine?

 5) Why do you see the need in hiding behind a pseudonym and masking your identity?

6) What are your goals to that end?

7) What is your primary motivation in ascertaining logistical information about my group?

8) Are you a sayanim and work for Mossad?

9) Is your organization attempting to manufacture consent through fictitious and exagerrated narratives about persecution in Iran?

10) What would you consider your motivation to that end?

11) Is your organization attempting to foment international discord and lobby for a pre-emptive military strike on Iran?

12) What is your position on the current policy of President Obama in wishing engagement with Iran?

13) Do you believe that Baha'ism should replace the national religion in Iran, and is your organization attempting to replace the mullah's theocracy with a Baha'i theocracy? 

Don't get frustrated. Just answer the questions. Looking in the mirror of your organizational duplicity and Stalinism can't be that bad. Or can it?

See Sourcewatch entry, Baha'i Faith.


CAUTION DETOUR AHEAD

NUR - It is now clear that you are ashamed to answer these Qs

by CAUTION DETOUR AHEAD on

1) How many people in your group?

2) Are you a clergyman in this group?

3) How often do you meet?

4) Where do most of these people live?

5) Is this group growing in numbers or dwindling? How do you know?  Any references you can site?

6) What are the goals of this group?

7) How does this group organize itself or does it have a community?

8) Is this group recognized by any organization or civil or international body?

9) Is this group persecuted in Iran or elsewhere? If so, can you reference any evidence to support this claim?

10) What would be considered an achievement for this group?

11) Could you tell us some of the principles of your Faith?

and finally...

12) Why don't you answer these basic questions? 

Even if you don't have a reference to cite, it would good to at least tell us the basis for the answers.

DETNUR


NUR

Your answer same as before...

by NUR on

None of your business.

Now answer a few of mine,

1) Who are you and what is your real name?

2)  What creed or organization do you belong to?

3) What position do you occupy?

4) Are you now or have you ever worked on behalf of the Baha'i Internet Agency headed by Matthew Weinberg at the Baha'i World Center in Haifa, occupied Palestine?

 5) Why do you see the need in hiding behind a pseudonym and masking your identity?

6) What are your goals to that end?

7) What is your primary motivation in ascertaining logistical information about my group?

8) Are you a sayanim and work for Mossad?

9) Is your organization attempting to manufacture consent through fictitious and exagerrated narratives about persecution in Iran?

10) What would you consider your motivation to that end?

11) Is your organization attempting to foment international discord and lobby for a pre-emptive military strike on Iran?

12) What is your position on the current policy of President Obama in wishing engagement with Iran?

13) Do you believe that Baha'ism should replace the national religion in Iran, and is your organization attempting to replace the mullah's theocracy with a Baha'i theocracy? 

Don't get frustrated. Just answer the questions. Looking in the mirror of your organizational duplicity and Stalinism can't be that bad. Or can it?

See Sourcewatch entry, Baha'i Faith.


CAUTION DETOUR AHEAD

NUR - At least you are now responding, try answering next.

by CAUTION DETOUR AHEAD on

1) How many people in your group?

2) Are you a clergyman in this group?

3) How often do you meet?

4) Where do most of these people live?

5) Is this group growing in numbers or dwindling? How do you know?  Any references you can site?

6) What are the goals of this group?

7) How does this group organize itself or does it have a community?

8) Is this group recognized by any organization or civil or international body?

9) Is this group persecuted in Iran or elsewhere? If so, can you reference any evidence to support this claim?

10) What would be considered an achievement for this group?

11) Could you tell us some of the principles of your Faith?

and finally...

12) Why don't you answer these basic questions? 

Even if you don't have a reference to cite, it would good to at least tell us the basis for the answers.

DETNUR


NUR

None of your business

by NUR on

You show me yours, and I'll show you mine! 

413


CAUTION DETOUR AHEAD

NUR - Just answer these questions...

by CAUTION DETOUR AHEAD on

1) How many people in your group?

2) Are you a clergyman in this group?

3) How often do you meet?

4) Where do most of these people live?

5) Is this group growing in numbers or dwindling?

6) What are the goals of this group?

7) How does this group organize itself or does it have a community?

8) Is this group recognized by any organization or civil or international body?

9) Is this group persecuted in Iran or elsewhere? If so, can you reference any evidence to support this claim?

10) What would be considered an achievement for this group?

11) Could you tell us some of the principles of your Faith?

Don't get frustrated, just answer these questions.  Looking in the mirror can't be that bad.  (or is it?)

DETNUR


NUR

Baha'u'llah's view of critics

by NUR on

In
Ma'idih-i-Asmani, vol. 4, page 355
//reference.bahai.org/fa/t/b/MAS4/mas4-355.html

Translation by Wahid Azal (Jan. 7, 2009)
Chapter 11


The Critics of the Cause of God (munkirin-i-amru'llah)


The Ancient Beauty in the Tablet of Habib from Maragha, which begins with "H B hear the call of God from the direction of the throne by the protective signs/verses (bi-ayati muhayyimin)..etc." they [i.e. Husayn 'Ali Nuri] enunciate the command (mi-farmayand) [i.e. state],

By God, the Truth, whomsoever criticizes it [i.e. Baha'ism], [which is] possessed of the manifest, the brilliant, the high and the perspicuous excellence, it behoveth him to ask his mother [yanbaghi lahu bi-an yas'al min ummihi] about his origins [or 'state', i.e.'hal', meaning he should inquire his mother about his legitimate conception – trans.], for he shall return to the nethermost hell [asfal al-jahim]"…

In Promulgation of Universal Peace p. 322 the following is quoted by 'Abbas Effendi from a prayer by his father, cf. THE BAHA'I FAITH AND ISLAM (ed.) Heshmat Moayyad (The Association for Baha'i Studies: Ottawa, 1990), p.23


O God! Whomsoever violates My Covenant, O God, humiliate him. Verily whosoever violates My Covenant, erase and efface him.


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Bahaullah's view on liberty

by ab111 (not verified) on

Quotes from Aqdas, the holiest Bahai book:
122:Consider the pettiness of men's minds. They ask for that which injureth them, and cast away the thing that profiteth them. They are indeed of those that are far astray. We find some men desiring liberty and priding themselves therein. Such men are in the depths of ignorance.
123:Liberty must in the end lead to sedition whose flames none can quench.Thus warneth you He Who is the Reckoner, the All-Knowing. Know ye that the embodiment of liberty and its symbol is the animal.That which beseemeth man is submission unto such restraints as will protect him from his own ignorance, and guard him against the harm of mischief-maker. Liberty causeth man to overstep the bounds of propriety, and to infringe on the dignity of his station. It debaseth him to the level of extreme depravity and wickedness.
124:Regard men as a flock of sheep that need a shepherd for their protection. This verily is truth, the certain truth.We approve of liberty in certain circumstances and refuse to sanction it in others...
125:Say:True liberty consisteth in man's submission unto My commandments, little as you know it...The liberty that prophiteth you is to be found nowhere except in complete servitude unto God,the Eternal Truth...


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Lets dont forget!

by AnIranianBaha'i (not verified) on

Dears,

Let's don't forget the message from the Universal House of Justice:

//www.negah32.info/index.php?option=com_conte...

دشنام را با تحیّت و سلام پاسخ گویید و حتّی با ظالمان به رأفت و مهربانی و صبر و شکیبایی مقابله نمایید

Wish all of you nice weekend.

Thank you.


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Nur:

by wonderer (not verified) on

Nur:
I am neither for nor against people of any religion, faith, sect, even cult, if they do not harm others.

I have a question for you?

Do you want people to realise that the Bahai's are fake and behaving strangely... or whatever...?
If you want people made aware, do you think your aggressive style will bring them forth to read/listen to what you have to say?
I believe you are trying to present some facts, yet your combative manner will- if it hasn't already, which I think it has - drive people away and you will ultimately be making no one aware but yourself!
I'm not giving you a guideline I'm just interested in facts.
Plus the fact that the Bahai religion has always been an enigma to me.
You simply may want to consider the above.


NUR

The Baha'i Lynch Mob ...

by NUR on

Thanks, Sopia. You've pretty much understood what is going on here and nailed it on the head. Note that if the IP addresses of the various anonymous Bahai posters here were released by the webmaster, it is a pretty fair assumption  that there are only one or two addresses posting under different aliases here attempting to make it appear that there are more than one people. And the persons posting are also deputized to post by an Internet Committee. 

But what should also be noted is the fact that you are dealing with a classic lynch mob mentality. In fact, it is the exact same lynch mob mentality of the Hezbollahis who went around harrassing, abusing and maiming people in the streets of Iran after the Revolution who weren't towing the imam's line (khatt-i-imam). As the historical experience of the Bayani community has proven, as I and countless others have experienced subsequently, the mentality of the Baha'is here - as elsewhere - is exactly the same mentality as the post-revolutionary Hezbollahi thugs of Iran. The organization behind these people is a dangerous organization of criminal thugs, just like the mullahs, which is probably why the webmaster of this site feels so at home with them. Birds of a feather...

I'll leave you with a quote by former Baha'i and University of Michigan professor, Juan Cole, about the dirty tactics and lynch mob mentality of these cultists,

 //www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/technique.htm

Professor Juan Cole, February 23, 1999:
"There is nothing to be puzzled by. Right wing Baha'is only like to hear the sound of their own voices (which are the only voices they will admit to being "Baha'i" at all). Obviously, the world is so constructed that they cannot in fact only hear their own voices. They are forced to hear other voices that differ from theirs. This most disturbs them when the voices come from enrolled Baha'isor when the voices speak of the Baha'i faith. The way they sometimes deal with the enrolled Baha'is is to summon them to a heresy inquiry and threaten them with being shunned if they do not fall silent. With non-Baha'is or with ex-Baha'is, they deal with their speech about the faith by backbiting, slandering and libelling the speaker. You will note that since I've been on this list I have been accused of long-term heresy, of "claiming authority," of out and out lying(though that was retracted, twice), of misrepresentation, of 'playing fast and loose with the facts,' and even of being 'delusional.' I have been accused of all these falsehoods by *Baha'is*, by prominent Baha'is. I have been backbitten by them. This shows that all the talk about the danger a sharp tongue can do, all the talk about the need for harmony,for returning poison with honey, for a sin-covering eye, is just *talk*among right wing Baha'is. No one fights dirtier than they when they discover a voice they cannot silence and cannot refute."

413 


sophia

interesting responses

by sophia on

  I find the various responses to Nur's posts very interesting, and also a bit disturbing. What I find most disturbing about the nature of the responses is that those that come from supporters of the Baha'is all make almost exactly the same types of comments about Nur's posts. They call them a liar, they call them crazy, in need of mental help. They say that their posts are angry, motivated by bitterness. Such responses all sound so pre-programmed, almost like they are coming out of the mouths of brainwashed people. And it also sounds so much like the ways in which totalitarian regimes around the world attack their critics, paint them as unbalanced lunatics, as someone with an axe to grind who is looking to upset some kind of illusory 'state harmony', even in face of quite solid evidence to the contrary. For those who know anything about this, such techniques are the classic instruments of governments to quash dissidents and turn genuine critics into paraiahs. In the context of the Baha'is, it also seems that anyone who stands against the Haifan Baha'i organization somehow supports the Mullahs, rather than being able to have perfectly justifiable reasons to dislike their ideology, and believe that there has been a great deal of censorship, propaganda and whitewashing of history undertaken in order to hide certain uncomfortable truths about the faith's past. And what better way to justify that than to say it has been done in such a way because the world will not understand why it is necessary until some time into the future! Perfect! It seems so symptomatic of the response of many Baha'is that they are so utterly locked into their own completely totalitarian, homogenizing (no matter what the teachings say about this), and authoritarian driven mindset that they can only produce responses to genuine historical evidence by dismissing it as the lies of an agitator. And I have no doubt I will probably receive similar responses to speaking in this way. 

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Does NUR Have Insurance..? Free Help Coming Soon

by SHshidam-AS-khandeh (not verified) on

Does NUR Have Insurance..?
Free Help is coming soon, with Dental as well as MENTAL ..


NUR

The Bab is not buried in Haifa

by NUR on

 The Essence of the Seven Letters, Siyyid 'Ali Muhammad Shirazi, the Bab, is not - repeat NOT - buried in Haifa, IsraHELL. This is another of the great big lies without foundation the Baha'is have endlessly told. I have challenged them to open up that shrine and have the remains forensically tested. The person buried in that fake shrine over there is actually Mirza Bozorg Nuri, i.e. the father of both Subh-i-Azal and Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nari. That shrine is a fake!

As for the Statement from Prominent Academics: watch the movie Wag the Dog and then read Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent and you'll figure out what that truly is all about! BTW none of those persons in that letter are prominent anything....

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NUR

Crude? Unpolished?

by NUR on

Surely you jest? 

If you haven't figured out by now, I am not remotely interested in pandering to Jahahanshah Javid or his rules, i.e. a lackey of the mullahs and IRI now beating his chest for the Baha'i cult because he married one of them -  not to mention it also gives him a modicum of a smokescreen for his general IRI lackey-hood! Give me a break! Truth is truth however it is phrased, since betamarg and beneshin both mean the same thing!

413


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Thanks for this Anti-Bahai Article

by Arabie (not verified) on

Dear NUR thank you for this write-up. May the "Allah" bless you.


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freedom to do....

by an observer (not verified) on

Nur says that she does believe in Bab as true God's messenger.At the same time she says "Haifaian Baha'is" at one of her comments.Isn't Bab's tomb in Haifa?!Aren't Baha'is who take care of his tomb?

Secondly this is not freedom of speech.In North Europe.Certain groups like Nazism and racists are banned in media.

And finally, scholars allways know from where they can get right informations about certain things.
I refer to "Statement by Prominent Academics" which is available at iranpresswatch.

wish all of you nice weekend.


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Dear Nur

by A Non-Bahai (not verified) on

Whether you know it or not, you have been able to shed some light on this bunch of crowd that call themselves the Bahai Bloggers.

You are crude; perhaps even unpolished. But the one thing that you have managed to do is to let others know that this Bahai Faith is not really what the Bahai Bloggers here are trying to portray. Like any other faith, they have their in-fightings, vanities, and even their dark side.

I just hope that you could refine your writing so that it is a bit more balanced, and that it becomes 'Featurable'. By that I mean, so long as you continue to be this 'Crazy' in your writings, Jahanshah Javid (JJ) , the publisher of this web site, will not feature your blogs on the Front Page. Consequently, only 'a few' people would read your blogs behind the scenes, and not the majority of the site visitors.

It's really that simple!


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رقیبان ازلیِ بهائیت، نخستین مروجان نظریه‌ توطئه

Feminist (not verified)


//bahaisandbritannia.googlepages.com/home
-Made in Azalis(=Bayani=Hazini=Nur'i)

اما این اتهام از کجا سرچشمه می ‌گیرد؟ ریشه‌ اتهام ارتباط بهائیان با خارجی‌ها چندگانه است.

در دوره ‌اولیه‌ دیانت بهائی، شاخه‌ های مذهبی همسایه‌ آن مانند "ازلی‌ها" تیر این اتهام را به سوی بهائیت روانه کردند.

آن ‌گونه که خانم مانگول بیات در کتاب "نخستین انقلاب ایران؛ تشیع و انقلاب مشروطیت 1909-1905"
(Iran's First Revolution: Shi'ism and the Constitutional Revolution of 1905-1909)

آورده است، ازلی ‌ها که در جنبش مشروطیت فعال بودند و از نظر مذهبی رقیب بهائیان به شمار می ‌رفتند، کوشیدند تا با جا انداختن برچسب "ارتباط با خارجی" حقانیت و اصالت دین بهائیت را به پرسش بگیرند.

ازلی‌ها پیروان میرزا یحیی نوری، ملقب به صبح ازل، جانشین محمد علی باب، بنیادگذار آیین بابی، بودند و در آغاز به ضرورت جهاد و براندازی مسلحانه‌حکومت قاجاریه باور داشتند.

میرزا حسین‌علی بهاء (بعدها بهاء الله)، برادر پدری میرزا یحیی نوری بود. پس از مدتی میان دو برادر بر سر جانشینی پدر اختلاف و دشمنی عمیق افتاد. بابیان به دو شاخه‌ ازلی‌ ها و بهائی‌ ها تقسیم شدند. گروه‌ ازلی‌ها دیری نپایید و فروپاشید، اما بهائیان تا به امروز در سراسر جهان روی به گسترش و فزونی نهادند.

از سوی دیگر، بر پایه‌ آنچه در کتاب "بریتانیا و انقلاب مشروطیت ایران 1911-1906؛ سیاست خارجی، امپریالیسم و مخالفت"
(Britain and the Iranian Constitutional Revolution of 1906-1911; Foreign Policy, Imperialism and Dissent(
، نوشته‌منصور بنکداریان آمده است، ارتداد شماری از یهودیان به آیین بابی و بهائی و نیز گرویدن شماری از انگلیسی‌ها به بهائیت، بدگمانی‌ها در باره‌رابطه‌بابی‌ ها و بهائی ‌ها به "بیگانگان" را افزود.

گفتنی است که از آغاز پیدایش بهائیت، شمار فراوانی از روحانیان شیعه و پیروان ادیان دیگر مانند زردتشتی به این دین گرویده ‌اند.


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NUR

by Fadaiee (not verified) on

Take it easy NUR you may have a heart attack. You are nothing absolutely nothing as far as I am concern. You may think you are somebody and doing some goods for your beloved IR but believe me you have made yourself the joke of the Iranian.com. There have been so many hate mongers and liars way bigger--I mean way bigger-- than you and could not succeed to put off this everlasting flame. So my advise to you is to take it easy and stop posting the same garbage over and over. Seems you have nothing constructive to post. I hope JJ realize that this is not a freedom of speech. Again take it Easy.


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And the HOJJATIYEH' Prize goes to...

by historian (not verified) on

As posted in another one of his rants...
Nur it seems has much in common with the HOJJATIYEH's principles and aims

He, by his blogs demonstrates a level of hate and rage, difficult for the average healthy human to contain; if he is human he must be slowly self destructing under the weight of his own rage.

He says: "As such it is the conscientious and spiritual duty of people such as myself to combat and expose it to the bitter end." well, i have questions to ask of him;
Lets say that Bahais have made absolutely no positive contribution to the world in the last 160 years..that most people in iran and everywhere know them as bad people..

If that is the case , why have they attracted millions from every race and religion? If Baha'u'llah was so evil, why did the majority of the Babis turn to Him instead of Azal? If Azal, and later those who followed him, were the true carriers of the Divine Message, why have they sunk into relative oblivion?
What really is Azal's legacy?
Where are the fruits of his message?
Why did he die without any recognition?
Why did Azal sink so low and destitute as to request a stipend from the British in Cyprus?
Why if he had the claim as a Prophet, when he died why was he buried as a Muslim, and not a Babi, leader?

After all Nur claims he is a Bayani , a follower of Azal, and not Muslim, Azal however seemed to have not cared as much as NUR ! since he prefered to be known by the local turks in Cyprus as a Muslim.

Any how, Why did even Azal's chosen successor abandon him?

it seems that history will not be so kind to him..
by all accounts, why was Azal in hiding most of his life?
Why did Azal wear disguises?
why did he follow Baha'u'llah into exile?
why did he not remain in Iran to inspire and lead the Babis? after all was not the order for exile for Baha'u'llah and his immediate family?

There too many Whys about Azal.

It does not take much to recognize the difference between
two prisoners in exile and how they were each viewed in the eyes their enemies and captors.

Professor Edward Browne , one of Azal's greatest supporters has written this about his visit with Baha'u'llah in 1890:

".... The face of him on whom I gazed I can never forget, though I cannot describe it. Those piercing eyes seemed to read one's very soul; power and authority sat on that ample brow; while the deep lines on the forehead and face implied an age which the jet-black hair and beard flowing down in indistinguishable luxuriance almost to the waist seemed to belie. No need to ask in whose presence I stood, as I bowed myself before Wa

A mild dignified voice bade me be seated, and then continued: -- "Praise be to God that thou has attained! ... Thou has come to see a prisoner and an exile. ... We desire but the good of the world and happiness of the nations; yet they deem us a stirrer up of strife and sedition worthy of bondage and banishment. ... That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled -- what harm is there in this? ... Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the `Most Great Peace' shall come. ... Do not you in Europe need this also? Is not this that which Christ foretold? ... Yet do we see your kings and rulers lavishing their treasures more freely on means for the destruction of the human race than on that which would conduce to the happiness of mankind. ... These strifes and this bloodshed and discord must cease, and all men be as one kindred and one family. ... Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind. ..."

Such, so far as I can recall them, were the words which, besides many others, I heard from Beha. Let those who read them consider well with themselves whether such doctrines merit death and bonds, and whether the world is more likely gain or lose by their diffusion."

Did Azal's most famous supporter ever describe Azal in the same manner as Baha'u'llah?

".... the object of a devotion and love which kings might envy and emperors sigh for in vain! "

Have Azal's life and teachings inspire the same "devotion and love"

What does NUR's actions, thoughts and hateful rage say about his beliefs in what he likes to call "bayanic".

In the end, such was Azal's life:

Mirza Yahya remained a recluse in Famagusta - there are no reports of him going to the mosque or to coffee-shops. The inhabitants of Famagusta appear to have regarded him as Muslim holy man and Mirza Yahya went along with this. When people called to greet on Muslim feasts like Bayram (it being customary to visit a holy man on such occasions), he accepted this. There was no attempt to teach the local people the Babi or Azali religious beliefs.

Although freed from the conditions of his exile in 1881 after the British occupation of Cyprus Mirza Yahya preferred to remain in Famagusta as a pensioner of the British Government. Mirza Yahya died on 29 April 1912 at the age of about 80. According to the account by his son, Ridvan-`Ali, who had by this time become a Christian and taken the name Constantine the Persian, no "witnesses to the Bayan" (i.e. Babis) could be found to carry out the funeral ceremony and so it was carried out by the Imam-Jum`a of Famagusta and other Muslim clerics.[*25]

All of Mirza Yahya's family in Cyprus maintained an outward appearance of being Muslims. The people of Famagusta used to call them sun-worshippers because of their custom of leaving the city at sunrise to go to Mirza Yahya's grave to pray. Mirza Yahya's descendants at the present time appear to know little about their family history or religious past and can for all practical purposes be regarded as Turks and Muslims. Riza Ezel, the caretaker of Mirza Yahya's grave at present, told us that his grand-father was a Muslim holy man. Since Jalal Azal's death, his widow `Ismat has put an annual notice in the newspapers on the anniversary of his death inviting people to a Mevlid recital and Qur'an reading in his memory (this being the traditional Turkish Muslim custom)

*25. Browne, Materials for the Study of the Babi Religion, p. 312


NUR

CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

by NUR on

See,
Baha'is In My Backyard
//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2877478116441126906&hl=en-AU

-

Also see,
Recent court victory by the Orthodox Baha'is (OBF = Orthodox Baha'i Faith), and the suit brought by the Haifan Bahaim organization against them:
//trueseeker.typepad.com/true_seeker/court_case.html
and
//www.truebahai.info/court/139-opinion.pdf  (judge's actual
decision)
Note particularly,
//www.ca7.uscourts.gov/tmp/LF1FFZY0.mp3

-
BAHAI Tactics & Techniques - CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

"Slanderous Vilification" = The Baha'i Technique - Ad Hominem, Libel, Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Ostracize, Shun, Banish, Backbite, Defame, Vilify, Discredit, Smear, Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully, Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Blackball, Deceive, Coerce, Silence, Harass... etc., etc....  CAUTION NON-BAHAIS

1. As far as possible they hold back from responding
2. Then they claim no knowledge of the given issue by feigning
ignorance
3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind,
biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to
the main issue exposed)
5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer,
i.e. shoot the messenger
6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on
the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed and supporting the bahais and their issues as so-called non-bahais

-

Also see S.G. Wilson,
BAHAISM AND RELIGIOUS ASSASSINATION The Muslim World vol. 4, issue 4, 1914
&
BAHAISM AND RELIGIOUS DECEPTION The Muslim World, Volume 5, Issue 2, 1914-1915.
at,
//wahidazal66.googlepages.com/babidocuments%28westernsources%29

And, BAHAISM AND THE BRITISH,
//bahaisandbritannia.googlepages.com/home

Also see, especially,
HOSTAGE TO KHOMEINI by Robert Dreyfuss (New Benjamin Franklin House:
New York, 1980) pp.117-118 (Pdf pages 73-74)

//www.wlym.com/pdf/iclc/hostage.pdf

&

//www.archive.org/details/HostageToKhomeini

...Today the Bahai cult is hated in Iran, and is considered correctly
to be an arm of the British Crown. During the destabilization of the
Shah in 1978, it was widely reported that in several instances the
Bahai cult secretly funded the Khomeini Shi’ite movement. In part, the money would have flowed through the cult’s links to the same
international ‘human rights’ organizations, such as Amnesty International, that originally sponsored the anti-Shah movement in
Iran. These movements also derive from the “one world” currents
associated with the Bahais since the early 1900s. (If any Iranians
have been misled on the question of the Bahais by the supposed
antipathy of Khomeini’s clique to the Bahais, it should be noted that
the Bahai cultists often deliberately encouraged anti-Bahai activities as camouflage)...

Also see pp. 115-116 (Pdf page 72)

==CAUTION NON-BAHAIS==


default

He says this about you!

by Light (not verified) on

Corrupt not the holy, the all-embracing, and primal Word of God, and seek not to profane its sanctity or to debase its exalted character.
O heedless ones! Though the wonders of My mercy have encompassed all created things, both visible and invisible, and though the revelations of My grace and bounty have permeated every atom of the universe, yet the rod with which I can chastise the wicked is grievous, and the fierceness of Mine anger against them terrible.


amigo19

XLVII. O Jews! If ye be

by amigo19 on

XLVII. O Jews! If ye be intent on crucifying once again Jesus, the Spirit of God, put Me to death, for He hath once more, in My person, been made manifest unto you. Deal with Me as ye wish, for I have vowed to lay down My life in the path of God. I will fear no one, though the powers of earth and heaven be leagued against Me. Followers of the Gospel! If ye cherish the desire to slay Muhammad, the Apostle of God, seize Me and put an end to My life, for I am He, and My Self is His Self. Do unto Me as ye like, for the deepest longing of Mine heart is to attain the presence of My Best-Beloved in His Kingdom of Glory. Such is the Divine decree, if ye know it. Followers of Muhammad! If it be your wish to riddle with your shafts the breast of Him Who hath caused His Book the Bayan to be sent down unto you, lay hands on Me and persecute Me, for I am His Well-Beloved, the revelation of His own Self, though My name be not His name. I have come in the shadows of the clouds of glory, and am invested by God with invincible sovereignty. He, verily, is the Truth, the Knower of things unseen. I, verily, anticipate from you the treatment ye have accorded unto Him that came before Me. To this all things, verily, witness, if ye be of those who hearken.  102  O people of the Bayan! If ye have resolved to shed the blood of Him Whose coming the Báb hath proclaimed, Whose advent Muhammad hath prophesied, and Whose Revelation Jesus Christ Himself hath announced, behold Me standing, ready and defenseless, before you. Deal with Me after your own desires.