Baha'is, which comes first: Iran or your globalist ideals of "One Planet, One People"?

Baha'is, which comes first: Iran or your globalist ideals of "One Planet, One People"?
by Nur-i-Azal
26-Apr-2010
 

The Baha'is believe that all the people of the world are the same and so shun and deplore nationalism as a concept and practiced ideal. Their own writings state such things as "Let not a man glory in this,
that he loves his country; let him rather glory in
this, that he loves his kind. …
” and "the Earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" (Baha'u'llah).

Such platitudes might be lofty sounding and all very well and good, but in practice where this leaves the question of Iran and Iranian nationalism (meehan-parasti) is somewhat in an ambiguous position and quandary where especially Iranian Baha'is are concerned. So this question needs to be asked of the Iranian Baha'is: which comes first for you, Iran or your globalist ideals of "One Planet, One People"? Yes or no: are you Iranian nationalists or not? Does Iran come above your globalist ideals or not? If so, why so? If not, why not?

 

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faryarm

You Are WRONG...What is your agenda to call Bahais "Zionist?"

by faryarm on

You Are WRONG...What is your agenda to call Bahais "Zionist?"The Accusation sounds too familiar...


ShapourBakhtiar

Not only that

by ShapourBakhtiar on

Not only do Baha'is not think of Iran first, they do not wish to be associated with Iran or Iranians. I've not met a single Baha'i that is honest, that thinks of himself as an Iranian, that speaks the truth, that has not hate and bitterness deep within. And i've met quite a few.

They are increasingly acting more and more like the zionists. Whenever questioned or criticized, they play the victim card and start the name calling: anti-Baha'i, anti-Jew, Nazi etc.

But despite all their deceptions, they do have one main weakness; Falseness eventually surfaces itself.

The Baha'is are not the only people who have suffered by the hands of the Islamic regime. Yet the only thing on their mind is themselves in this context. Where is their "one world, one people" now? This is "one world, one Baha'i people" not the former.


faryarm

The Veil that has created "Wahid Azal"

by faryarm on

Nima Hazini /Wahid Azal/ NUR etc etc 

You are the perfect example of the kind of person; in  Baha'u'llah's words:  "knowledge is the most great veil"

No body doubts the degree of your knowledge; but as many have in the last 10 years observed , is your self consuming hatred, your actions, towards your friends, family and since appearing here on Iranian .com and getting blocked three times because of the negativity you represent with your presence , be it under any of your many names.

Who better to illustrate the truth behind, "knowledge is the most great veil", than you, when you with the same abundance of knowledge has created a combative outcast, a self seeking , attention hungry personality who has is least on these pages has not painted a picture of a once bright , promising son whose  ego has robbed him of any redeeming human qualities like humility and wisdom.


Nur-i-Azal

Empty euphemisms & the theft & sanitization of 'irfan

by Nur-i-Azal on

One of the hallmarks of Bahai doublespeak (in evidence from the very writings of its founder) is the use of empty euphemisms and the employment of terminology and concepts from 'irfan (mysticism/esotericism) whilst completely gutting and sanitizing such concepts from their source meanings and concepts. One of these is the harping about ego, rank and position. The dynamics of Bahai community power structures are all about ego, rank and position. If it wasn't, there would be no such thing as Bahai administration or the administrative order. The Bahais have taken concepts such as selflessness and service from Sufi texts, gutted all the primary meaning and application of these ideas, while applying them as  weapons and political devices catered towards control. A good example of this where Husayn'Ali Nuri himself states that "knowledge is the most great veil" ('ilm hejaab-e-akbar ast") where the intention is the counter-intuitive argument that whosoever has not believed in his claims and blindly accepts everything ushering from his pen  is veiled because of knowledge.

For his outstanding academic performance Ehsan Yarshater was awarded a scholarship in the 1930s by the Iranian government to study in Europe. At the time Shoghi Effendi had gotten a bee in his bonnet and was tout court forbidding all Iranian Bahais from studying in Europe and travelling out of Iran. Ehsan Yarshater took the scholarship, went to Europe and was forthwith excommunicated by Shoghi Effendi and his family ordered by the National Assembly of Iran in ceasing all further association with him. This story is a testament to Shoghi Effendi's warped ego, the utterly deranged nature of Bahai power structures, and nothing else.

 

Ya NUR


faryarm

No room for Ego, Rank & Self importance..

by faryarm on

 

There is no room for Ego, Rank and Self importance within the Bahai Community..there can be differences of opinion, but it can not become the basis for personal campaign to casue dissension and revolt against the community.

It remains To each individual to Meet Personal Test of Humility/ Selflless Service

.

The key being the absence of self, Ego and desire for rank and recognition...and those who have been challenged by their own self importance are no longer in The community.

and that is something you and others before you have failed to comprehend.

In some cases such as yours Wahid Azal formerly Nima Hazini. the reason is as evident as the Sun and becomes more obvious as time goes by... 

Regarding people like Prof Yarshater who is a relative and friend; you do not know the personal details of over 40 years ago and further what Prof Yarshater might feel in is heart about the Bahai Faith.

faryarm 

 

 

 


Nur-i-Azal

More diversionary propaganda

by Nur-i-Azal on

The otherwise is me, Ayati, Sobhi, Niku, Ra'ufi, the Walbridges, Ehsan Yarshater, and a whole slew of other people who have walked away from this god-foresaken cult from day dot, like the following:

//www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Baha%27i_Faith

Professor May">Dann May and Professor Phyllis E Bernard

To all those concerned: Perhaps you don’t understand – we already view ourselves as no
longer members of the Baha’i community and we regularly attend Unitarian
and Buddhist activities. We do not present ourselves as Baha’is and do everything we can,
when people try to introduce us as Baha’is, to politely disabuse them of
that perception. We have not attended feast in over a year, or for that matter, any
other official Baha’i activity. I think that it would be best for all those concerned, that we
simply be allowed to withdraw. We are deeply disillusioned with the unofficial and official Baha’i
views on the war in Iraq, with the rise of Baha’i fundamentalism and
intolerance and with the growing “ghettoization” of the Baha’i community
in general. We increasingly feel unwelcome at Baha’i events where everything
seems to be scrutinized by rather mindless “Ruhi Book” mentalities
rather than thoughtful discussions of the Baha’i Sacred Texts. One-size-fits-all mass theology serves to only alienate anyone and
everyone who wishes to pursue spiritually inspired and independent
investigations of the truth. There appears to be, these days, little
room or toleration for Baha’i scholars, Baha’i scholarship, or
thoughtful approaches to the Baha’i sacred texts. We are outraged over the Kalimat Press decision! We are, therefore,
increasingly embarrassed to be associated with the Baha’i community. We
often hear from our colleagues in the academic world, that they too
perceive the Baha’i community as increasingly becoming more and more
fundamentalist, alarmist, and cultish. We are not interested in talking to anyone from the National Center
and we will not meet with them, even if they come to Norman. Please do
not send your representatives to Norman. Use the funds for their plane tickets to do some good at one of the
Baha’i schools or to feed the homeless. Please let us get on with our
lives. Your response only convinces us more completely that the Baha’i
community has become an authoritarian and fundamentalist movement. Most religious scholars’ perceptions of cults are that they make it
difficult for members to resign or leave the community with their
reputations intact – please don’t confirm our suspicions! Let us resign
and withdraw quietly and without fanfare or with inquisition-like exit
interviews. We :are willing to leave the Baha’i community without
recriminations, regrets, or active criticisms on our part. Please let us
fade from the Baha’i community as gently and as quietly as possible. Sincerely,

Dann May and Phyllis Bernard

 


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Self compliments

by Gavazn on

With ignorance such as this no wonder you people have never managed to keep the best amongst you. They keep walking out on you, whether they be named Juan Cole or otherwise. 

I suppose the Otherwise is you, eh? I am sure they are glad to be rid of you. Though you cannot live a second of your life without thinking the word Bahai.

Good luck to the Bahais.


Nur-i-Azal

The rambling/ranting is all yours. As is the ignorance

by Nur-i-Azal on

And you don't speak for any other audience but the Bahai Internet Agency who wheels you out here to rant, sleight of hand to irrelevent side issues, make personal attacks and generally engage in diversionary propaganda.

The question keeps getting asked and you people keep evading it. All kinds of distinctions have been made for you yet still you don't want to answer. Instead you get nasty and personal, as is the tactic of Bahais in every single conversation that legitimately criticizes you. Instead of attacking and using the well worn Bahai Technique of argumentative fallacies and diversion, just answer the question. This has nothing to do with me personally. It has to do with the future of Iran to which your position as of now still remains rather deliberately vague and ambiguous as far as core nationalist loyalties go. Instead of placating and diffusing suspicions, all you people are doing with your nastiness and sleight of hand tactics is raising more suspicions because your attacks stink of wishing to hide (albeit transparently) your true motives in this matter -- which appears to be exactly what I say they are.

With ignorance such as this no wonder you people have never managed to keep the best amongst you. They keep walking out on you, whether they be named Juan Cole or otherwise.

Ya NUR


default

Desperate

by sag koochooloo on

Do not think you can brainwash this audience using manipulation and quotes of “nationalism” against bahais. You will use anything against them as part of a vendetta and have lost credibility by your lack of objectivity. What you demonstrate in your immature accusations is your own desperation. You have previously said you support ethnic cleansing of bahais in Iran, and have wished death on them – what a low life you are. Your fragile ego is more important than lives of innocent human beings. Reading books has not made you a better person. That comes from working on yourself first, a fact which you are too insecure to admit.

I like this response from Darius Kavidar to you from this blog:

//iranian.com/main/blog/amir-sahameddin-ghiassi-93

Personally I have Friends who are Baha'i AND Secular

by Darius Kadivar on

I think it is wrong and naive to want to reduce a community be it racial, religious, ethnic or even ideological to stereotypes.

Personally some of my best friends are Baha'i and I have absolutely nothing but admiration and friendly relations with them.

In addition they are Not at all religious ...

If we are to think in such a reductive way we are only fooling ourselves. Otherwise what does Sigmund Freud have in common with Judaism ? Or Michael Douglas with Israeli Orthodox Jews who demand everything to be Kosher including one's wife ?


Nur-i-Azal

The brain-dead illogicality of the Bahai Technique

by Nur-i-Azal on

Valid objective typologies and distinctions that social scientists regularly make are called twisting words. This is the only kind of response and argument  available to the Baha'is in the face of facts: canard and sleight of hand. Go figure. The whole foundation of their cult from day dot rests upon such things.

The Islamists are wrong about a great many things (beginning with their approach to the most fundamental questions); but, give or take a few details here and there, this isn't one of them. But those fools aside: the argument made here is also one suggested by Ahmad Kasravi, i.e. the godfather of modern Iranian nationalism and one who was actually assassinated by Islamists. Surely Ahmad Kasravi wasn't a closet Islamist either now with a single axe to grind as far as the Bahais are concerned.

And with all the insults and sleight of hands, still the Bahais don't offer a semblance of a clear answer to this question without descending into their Twilight Zone.

Ya NUR

 


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Nuri

by sag koochooloo on

Stop being so childish, playing with words, twisting, trying to paint bahais as bad iranians . This is what Islamists do and you are doing the same under a different name. It is pathetic and all it does is tarnish your own reputation as someone who has an axe to grind and unable to be objective.


Nur-i-Azal

Good! Globalism & internationalism are not the same thing

by Nur-i-Azal on

No one has suggested that Iranian nationalism and autochthony imply an automatic chauvinism towards other nations. That is the conclusion Baha'is keep drawing with pretty weak argument.

Now globalism and internationalism are two different things. Bahai ideology is globalist. Internationalism is shared by many contemporary Iranian nationalists as well. The late Shah is a good example here of an internationalist. Internationalism does not aim at World Government or the universal standardization of all currencies, standards, cultures, etc. Internationalism respects autonomy, sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and especially respects the uniqueness of each independent culture without seeking to water it down or sanitize it. Globalism does not, and where culture is concerned, globalism seeks a common, universal culture where all cultures are diluted, sanitized and  ultimately subsumed into it as a Leviathan. Internationalism is a sentiment and a principle or  guiding belief without anything further. Globalism is an outright political agenda with a specific  target and aim. A bona fide nationalist Iranian who simultaneously shared an internationalist outlook would have no problems answering the question given here, esp. where the national interests of Iran are concerned, in the affirmative, viz. Yes, Iran comes first. Globalists, such as Baha'i ideologues, absolutely would have a problem. This is why we have yet to hear a decisive answer given to this question from these people either yea or nay. Why? Because they are globalists and not internationalists, and given this their loyalties can only ever be to their own globalist ideology and not to anything else.

I am an Iranian nationalist and an internationalist. But I am not a globalist. In fact I am an avowed enemy to the globalist NWO agenda, as everybody knows quite well.

Ya NUR


fooladi

I love Iran

by fooladi on

Yet, I am strongly internationalist. I do not believe that loving ones country and it's people and being an internationalist are mutualy exclusive concepts, quite the opposite. confusing nationalism with hating other nations is a dangerous concept used by all kind of real dictators, like Hitler and tin pot ones, like khamenei and ahmadi. The purpose of this concept is to rally the more ignorant masses behind these dictators, for whatever mad cause. But as history has shown over and over, these dictators always go down, and sadly also do millions of their ignorant followers.....

BTW, I am not a bahai either!!!


Nur-i-Azal

It isn't Sen's place to answer. He is not Iranian

by Nur-i-Azal on

Sen hasn't answered anything. And besides it is not Sen's place to answer this question. He is not an Iranian. The question is directed at Iranian Bahais, not at presently disenrolled New Zealander Baha'is using every opportunity to publicly brown-nose and ingratiate themselves to a system and a community they desperately want back into at any cost.

But this is instructive nevertheless. The message it is sending is that Iranian Bahais are incapable of standing on their own two feet where the Iranian political landscape is concerned. They require Anglo non-Iranian faces to represent them on even the most basic of questions pertaining to the future of Iran.

Thanks for proving a point: That Haifan Baha'i interest in Iran is completely a non-Iranian interest from start to finish. Sen just proved that, beautifully!

Ya NUR

 


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Sen and Faryar

by sag koochooloo on

thanks for your brilliant video Sen, and Faryar jan I am laughing at your comment. All this "Bahai Technique"! Perhaps you bahais should draft a "Bayani Technique" but it would be unfair to bayanis to take Nuri as their example. More like the "Miserable Moaner Technique".

Nuri, your question is silly in the first place, and answered by Sen M.


Nur-i-Azal

The Baha'i technique of "ignoring"

by Nur-i-Azal on

Is to announce that you are being ignored and recommend to others to ignore whilst continuing to engage without ignoring. In the Twilight Zone world of Bahai reverse psychology what is actually being said is that there is no ignoring going on but that this recommendation is being thrown out there as a slur and insult, like everything else. 

As far as the Australian Social Services is concerned, which is called Social Security here, yes, my (self-)employment is no one's business but my own, and especially not the business of the British-Zionist-CIA employed Bahai cultists.

Ya NUR

p.s. And still the initial question has not been answered.


faryarm

Dear sag koochooloo

by faryarm on

Dear sag koochooloo

Leave this sad existance to his own devices...

and let the Australian Social Services worry about his "employment", or non 


Nur-i-Azal

Propaganda

by Nur-i-Azal on

You people can't even make laudatory films about Iran without it looking like some cheesy '30s era Stalininst Soviet Realist film.

Ya NUR


Sen McGlinn

احیای عظمت ایران

Sen McGlinn


//www.noveentv.org/nv10-021d

فیلمی کوتاه دربارۀ تاریخ پرشکوه و گذشته پرعظمت ایران و پیش بینی آیندۀ
این کشور از دیدگاه دیانت بهائی.

~~~~~~~~~

What I can do, is keep my arm
from bringing others any harm.
How can I give the enviers ease?
They are themselves their own disease.
(Sa'di, Gulestan 1:5)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
//senmcglinn.wordpress


Nur-i-Azal

Funny you should have my last message here deleted

by Nur-i-Azal on

My record here of denouncing the Islamists is there for all to see, and it is legion on the rest of the internet. Your organization has also publicly withdrawn that previous allegation. But the fact remains that besides the Islamists you Bahais are equally a problem to our society and that if your organization is allowed to proceed unimpeded, it will become an unchecked menace to any future stability of a post-IR Iran. Furthemore, the evidence of collusion between your organization and the Khomeinists is well established.

But you have also not answered the earlier point, as usual, deflecting to personal attacks, marginal issues and flawed reasoning and examples. Once again, individuals expressing their personal views by definition cannot engage in propaganda. Nick Griffin of the BNP represents a party with an established ideological platform. My expressing my personal views in no way, shape or manner remotely qualifies the example you put out. Since you do represent an organization, it is you, not I, who is engaging in propaganda. QED

Ya NUR


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delete

by sag koochooloo on

delete


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Manipulation

by sag koochooloo on

By definition I cannot engage in propaganda 

 

"By definition"? I can see why you have ambitions in Politics with your choice of logic and words! Nice try...   You really remind me of Nick Griffin, the leader of the UK BNP party. You seem to share personality traits and ideals. Perhaps your party will be the Iranian version of the same .    If you want to get somewhere in discussions it would be fair to stop games like name-calling. Manipulation  is not the only way to achieve a desired outcome. There is no point in having discussions or expecting respect if there is no good faith when talking to someone who has opened up to you. By same token you insist I am a Bahia and Agent, I can accuse you of being a clever IRI Agent, as you are continuously deflecting from the real problems in our society, which are Mullahs (Islamists). And you have proven in past debates that you are very sensitive with regards to Islam being criticised, and lose all objectivity. 


Nur-i-Azal

Nonsense from Bahai Internet Agency propagandists

by Nur-i-Azal on

Propaganda can only be engaged in by a collective entity or corporate body of persons. Since I am one individual expressing my views, by definition I cannot engage in propaganda. You, on the other hand, represent an organization (whatever you say) and so by upholding their interests here are engaging in propaganda and doublespeak on their behalf.

But that said, your organization is using various platitudes and empty euphemisms like world peace and equality as a propaganda tool to exploit the general public's gullibility and credulity in order attain various strategic political targets, especially where Iran is concerned. You people have no genuine concern for Iran other than what stands to benefit your organization specifically. As such you people are a longterm threat to Iran in the same way the Khomeinist Islamists have been.

I am an autochthonous Iranian nationalist, a genuine Neo-Zoroastrian Illuminationist Bayani Sufi and gnostic feminist (my name of Vasspaan was given me by a practicing Zoroastrian), because I am an Iranian.

Feminism in the social domain is about equal opportunity in everything. Since under the Islamist menace and potentially under a Bahai political order, fair, even and equal opportunity for women does not and will not exist, I fight for the women on these fronts because I believe in the cause, and especially since I believe that the key to the transformation of Iranian society lies directly in the hands of Iran's women. That is my personal view and I have expressed it time and again, and this view has not nor will ever change.

 

Ya NUR


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Expert in twisting the truth

by sag koochooloo on

No, you are using Zoroastrian and Feminism as a propaganda tool. You are a manipulative bigot and now have shown racist tendencies. You do not know the first thing about feminism. It is not about “adoring” women and fawning on them and worshipping women. You demonstrated your naivety in your blog about Iranian Revolution should be led by a Woman.  

//iranian.com/main/blog/nur-i-azal/resolution-vacuum-leadership-we-need-woman-lead-revolution

Any Feminist knows that women do not want things handed to them on a plate or positive discrimination. The best person for the job should get a job, not according to their gender. You are very naïve and think the rest of the readers are too. Using the words “Zoroastrian” and “Feminism” in your propaganda does not hide the person and fascist ideologies you hold. You are threatened by Baha’is and are behaving like a panicked rabbit. With all your irrational rants and manipulation you dig yourself into a deeper hole, little rabbit.


Nur-i-Azal

No, you're not

by Nur-i-Azal on

Time and again you've proven that you're not an Iranian. But if it's all the same to you, right now I'm shoving your Bahai propaganda where the sun don't shine! And since you have broached the issue of who gets to vote in a future Iran: certainly this doesn't include your British, American, Zionist and globalist non-Iranian leash holders either. The Iranian vote is an Iranian issue.

Finally, I hope others have taken note of what this Bahai Internet Agency troll thinks of Zoroastrianism. This is a prevalent view amongst these people and what they really believe about the soul of Iran.

Ya NUR


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Tough luck Matey

by sag koochooloo on

I am as Iranian as you and you will just have to deal with it when the time comes! You sound racist now. Go shove your Zoroastrian / bayani propoganda card and bigotry talk where the NUR dont shine, as that is not what determines who gets a vote in a future iran.


Nur-i-Azal

You're not an Iranian either

by Nur-i-Azal on

So scram and go wear your One Planet, One People Please t-shirt handing out pamphlets on the side of the road somewhere. Go fulfill your "teaching opportunity."

Iranian issues and Iranian problems belong to Iranians and not pseudo-intellectual Bahai non-Iranians from Dunedin, NZ with giant chips on their shoulders regarding Iran and Iranians, and especially regarding issues such as autochthonous nationalism.

Ya NUR


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LOL Sen , well said

by sag koochooloo on

Now you are not an Iranian

So what? We need brains and logic instead of blood tests.


Nur-i-Azal

Fallacious analogy by non-Iranian Pseudo-intellectuals

by Nur-i-Azal on

Your analogy is a species of fallacious reasoning, Mr McGlinn, and has absolutely no relevence whatsoever to the question asked.  Nor does it answer any key points because it is typical facetious nonsense like much of the rest of your so-called scholarship. You Baha'is are globalists and internationalists. You don't dispute that, do you? This is one of your foundational ideologies. That there happens to be Persians amongst you is tangential to the fact that where the question of autochthony and nationalism vis-a-vis Iran is concerned you people as a matter of course have absolutely no primary loyalty  to the land and its people. Your ideology is globalism and internationalism, not to Iran. The issue is very simple. Given your ideological loyalties, and especially given the political nexus which exists between the Baha'i organization and forces who have proven themselves traditional enemies to Iran, unless and until you people unequivocally establish where you stand on this question one way or another, the answer is irrefutable that your loyalties are not to Iran, its soil or its people.

Autochthonous nationalism is a very simple concept to grasp, and it exists before the room or the house is even established.

Now you are not an Iranian. You have absolutely no stake in the future of my motherland. Kindly go back to your own lists amongst your own and leave these discussions to those whose concern it is to discuss these things. Such debates are not remotely the concern of Anglo New Zealanders from Dunedin.

Ya NUR


Sen McGlinn

Nationalism

by Sen McGlinn on

Which comes first for you, your own bedroom or the roof and walls and foundations of the house?

 

~~~~~~~~~~

What I can do, is keep my arm
from bringing others any harm.
How can I give the enviers ease?
They are themselves their own disease.
(Sa'di, Gulestan 1:5)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
//senmcglinn.wordpress