The Lotus

persia jan

please see my last response to Arash in this blog, and let me know what you think:

//iranian.com/main/blog/arash-monzavi-kia...

Niloufar

No. Quite the contrary. Iran is very relevant. The So called Islamic Republic of Iran not only has tortured, stoned to death and executed the Iranian people, but also has created and supported terrorist groups inside and outside Iran that have opposed the world peace. Examples include : Hezbollah, hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. With the presence of the Islamic Republic peace between the Arabs and the isrealies is impossible.

persia

all of that is besides the point. of course the palestinians and the arabs want peace, but the israeli project is desgined specifically to ensure that this never happens. simple as that. question is: what can we do to help? and the answer is simple too: defeat israeli apartheid like we did with south african apartheid. iran is irrelevant in this matter. it is a global matter that has the support of the great majority of the people in the world. it's a matter of strategy, and this can be solved through an effective boycott campaign. this is taking off throughout the world, and it will hurt the US economy as it too is being targeted. it is better for eceryone involved to resolve it as quickly and peacefully as possible.

Yeah right. I guess they

Yeah right. I guess they would also want us not to get vaccinated against Polio vaccine because they guy who discovered it ( Mr. salk) was a pro Israeli Jew. From Now on no Hezbollahy will get vaccinated against Polio. Also it is suggested that the Islamic Republic of Iran suspend it's Nuclear Program since the father of Nuclear Energy is Alber Einstein was Jew who probably supported Isreal

do we have

to boycott hebrew national hot dog and salami too? they taste so good. yummy!

Dear Niloufar

Thank you for the article.
Sometimes we have to put our feet into other peoples shoes and look at things as you mentioned with
non-iranian eyes but think logically and decide who is right and who is wrong. As for the Israelies they all want peace. As for the Arabs they mostly want peace as well but groups either created or supported by the theocacy in Iran keep disrupting the peace process. Is it really possible to make peace with groups such as Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad or hamas. Even impossible to make truce with them as they would use the truce period to prepare themselves better to destroy the Israeli side. Infact Israel is not their only aim but groups such as that seek global aspiration and pan_Islamization of the world and they don't even deny that. They consider themselves winners at all time since they embrace death more than life and they think they will go to a better place. That is why it would be so dangerous for example if the theocracy in Iran aquire nuclear weapons since they do not fear retaliation. They would use the nukes at any cost because any reaction by the west/Europe and or Isreal will not scare them since martyrdom will lead them to heaven(As they think) and the West know that too.

I believe the only way to rid of this conflict is a moderate Govt. to be placed in Gaza and people and kids be educated the right way in schools and Universities. in a generation or 2 things will change.

I dare you to think what would you do if you were an Israeli when your country and nation was under constant threat by groups such as that. That is how I would think. But again I do condemn the collective punishment of the palestinians but is there any other choice? I give you an example. Let's say you are the Police and you are in a situation where you are trying to save a family that is being taken as hostage by hostage takers. You try your best to destroy the hostage takers but those hostage takers use the family as a human shield. In this instance the hostage takers represent the terrorist groups i,e Hamas or Al Qaeda. Family members are Palestinian and Israeli Citizens and the Police are the Isrealies. The same situation applies to Iraq and Americans trying to destroy al qaeda there. In one single attack to fallujah 700 Civilians died along with only a couple of hudred of al qaeda membersFew years back)

persia jan

you missed the point of my comment on joining you. why do you expect me to do things that you have not done? as it happens i have written critically on iran in international media. it is not much i know.

each of us has a part to play in the great fabric of the world, and i don't see why i can't play mine my way.

those rockets are totally irrelevant. i don't want to write an article in response, but a look at this aricle would give you a good summary of how things are going through non-iranian eyes. i did not go through those things that you describe in iran. my experience and outlook is different, but i am still an iranian.

the mullahs have done enough 'definition' of what is iranian for us. lets not do the same as them to each other.

Peace!

Dear Niloufar

Why don't you tell me about the passionate initiatives you have taken on those atrocities I listed before, and I will gladly join too.

I used to be bias towards the Israeli/ Arab conflict when I was in Iran. As kids they used to feed us that the Arab land was taken away from the Palestinians by Israel which I now realized was not true. They used to brainwash us by talking about Imam hussain and moharram and teach us to torture ourselves and our kids (look at the following video:

//sarbazevatan.multiply.com/video/item/281/wa....

State of Israel
is the only country that has agreed to a 2 state solution one state for the Israelies and the other for the Arabs. This is unprecedented throughout the history of that region. The Ottaman Empire never agreed to that. The British didn't agree to that. As for the Romans occupying Israel long time ago, there were no Arabs living there at that time. The Romans renamed israel as Philistine(Palestine) Long before the influx of Arabs into that land.

If you don't get emotional ,the fact of the matter is that which country would tolerate constant indiscriminate rocket attacks by a terrorist group (Hamas)that does not distinguish civilian from non-civilian? Would the UK or France stay quite if their citizens were under attack like that? Did Russia not react to the terrorist attacks from Chechnia?

True that combat in an Urban setting where terrorist groups take Civilians as their cover is really hard no matter how cauthious an army would be and no matter how surgical your attacks are.

to Persia and Persian

forget it my friends. you're in the wrong place if you're looking for justice and common sense. ignoring the simple fact that these boycotts are nothing more than a pipe dream, have never worked, and never WILL work, these individuals will continue their play acting as humanitarians. the truth will come out though as their comments have already betrayed them.

it's depressing to see so many so-called humanitarians spending their time championing the palestineans as innocent victims.

persia

as your name suggests, you see little in the world other than iran. and you devote all your energy and attention to it. so please direct me to the passionate initiatives you have taken on those atrocities you list, and i will gladly join.

in the meantime, you may consider broadening your horizon a little. iran is not the whole world. palestinians deserve help too. we are part of the same human race.

Peace!

re the conflict

I too condemn collective punishment by Israeli army against the Arab citizens of Gaza but was there any other choice? Is it not real hard to avoid civilian casualties in urban combat especially if Groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jidad use human shield as a cover?

We are from a theocracy (The Islamic Republic of Iran) where people are stoned to death for comitting adultery or being homosexual on regular bases despite global Campaign to Stop Killing and Stoning!
We are from a country where political prisoners have been tortutured , maimed and executed for over 25 years. In one instance in the 1980's 20'000 leftist and nationalist political prisoners were executed in Gohardasht prison within 2 weeks period. Has any human rights group thought of boycotting the mullahs running the government in Iran?

Is'nt it true that most of us Iranians abroad have left the the country for lack of freedom and the presence of a theocracy in Iran?

re the conflict

First of all I should say that I am a former Muslim , currently an athiest but muslim by birth. I do not agree with all the points of Israeli side of argument but I certainly agree with most of what they say.

The following websites will say it all:

//www.masada2000.org/islam.html

//www.masada2000.org/

Here is the famous athiest site:

www.faithfreedom.org

Quote:

Over the last 1400 years, 270 million non-believers were murdered by Muslim jihadists.
Islam destroyed the Christian Middle East and Christian North Africa. It is estimated
that upwards of 60 million Christians were slaughtered during this conquest.
Also, half the Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus murdered.
Islamic jihad also destroyed over 10 million Buddhists.
In other words, Islam is a killing machine. These and other questions will be addressed more fully as you go through this website.

There has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as "Palestine" and the very notion of a "Palestinian Arab nation" having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct "Palestinian" culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed BY Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964... three years BEFORE the Arabs of "Palestine" lost the West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six-Day War (which the Arabs started). Even the so-called leader of the "Palestinian" people, Yasser Arafat, is EGYPTIAN! In short, the so-called Arab "Palestinians" are a manufactured people...a people with no history and no authenticity... whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!

Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel [Judea] were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!

and here is what they say about Israel:

More on strategy

I found this on Counterpunch from 2 years ago written by Virginia Tilley in response to Israel's indiscriminate bombing of Lebanon. It's very well thought out:

What to Target

Fortunately, from the South African experience, we know how to go forward, and strategies are proliferating. The basic methods of an international boycott campaign are familiar.

First, each person works in his or her own immediate orbit. People might urge divestment from companies investing in Israel by their colleges and universities, corporations, clubs, and churches. Boycott any sports event that hosts an Israeli team, and work with planners to exclude them. Participate in, and visit, no Israeli cultural events - films, plays, music, art exhibits. Avoid collaborating with Israeli professional colleagues, except on anti-racist activism. Don't invite any Israeli academic or writer to contribute to any conference or research and don't attend their panels or buy their books, unless their work is engaged directly in anti-racist activism. Don't visit Israel except for purposes of anti-racist activism. Buy nothing made in Israel: start looking at labels on olive oil, oranges, and clothing. Tell people what you are doing and why. Set up discussion groups everywhere to explain why.

For ideas and allies, try Googling the "boycott Israel" and "sanctions against Israel" campaigns springing up around the world. Know those allies, like the major churches, and tell people about them. For more ideas, read about the history of the boycott of South Africa.

Second, don't be confused by liberal Zionist alternatives that argue against a boycott in favor of "dialogue". If we can draw any conclusion from the last half-century, it is that, without the boycott, dialogue will go nowhere. And don't be confused by liberal-Zionist arguments that Israel will allow Palestinians a state if they only do this or that. Israel is already the only sovereign power in Palestine: what fragments are left to Palestinians cannot make a state. The question now is not whether there is one state, but what kind of state it comprises. The present version is apartheid, and it must change. However difficult to achieve, and however frightening to Jewish Israelis, the only just and stable solution is full democracy.

Third, be prepared for the boycott's opposition, which will be much louder, more vicious, and more dangerous than it was in the boycott of South Africa. Read and assemble solid documentable facts. Support each other loudly and publicly against the inevitable charges of anti-Semitism. And support your media against the same charges. Write to news media and explain just who the "Israel media teams" actually are. Most pro-Israeli activism draws directly from the Israeli government's propaganda outreach programs. Spotlight this fact. Team up to counter their pressure on newspapers, radio stations, and television news forums. Don't let them capture or intimidate public debate. By insisting loudly (and it must be sincere) that the goal is the full equality of dignity and rights of everyone in Israel-Palestine, including the millions of Jewish citizens of Israel, demolish their specious claims of anti-Semitism.

Finally, hold true to the principles that drive the boycott's mission. Don't tolerate the slightest whiff of anti-Semitism in your own group or movement. Anti-Jewish racists are certainly out there, and they are attracted to these campaigns like roaches. They will distract and absorb your energies, while undermining, degrading, and destroying the boycott movement. Some are Zionist plants, who will do so deliberately. If you can't change their minds (and don't spend much time trying, because they will use your efforts to drain your time and distract your energies), denounce them, expel them, ignore them, have no truck with them. They are the enemy of a peaceful future, not its allies - part of the problem, not the solution.

a wide range of boycott campaign posters

can be found on this site.

Statement of Determination to Boycott Israel

Statement of Determination to Boycott Israel - Signed by Israeli Professors

The Other Side of the Story!

//palestinian.ning.com/forum/topics/the-other...

mehdi khanoum/aqa

obviously i was wrong. you are not sincere at all!

you have a totally self-centred outlook devoid of any empathy for the palestinians. and some of your propositions are preposterous. chief among these:

'The fact that these Pals had lived and roamed their sheep and camels on
the land in WB, it does not mean they had legally owned it'

this piece of garbage propoaganda at once totally refutes any claims that jews make on palestinian land, simply by its own convoluted and slimy logic that in addition also indirectly denies the existence of palestinians anywhere outside of the 'WB'.

you are a waste of time in this debate. most zionists are, and this is exactly why a global boycott is so justified. you have lost your ability to listen.

i too left Tehran, but unlike you, i didn't go and join a project to obliterate a whole nation when i left.

Peace!

Which side of the mouth are we speaking.

I truly like to see that Iranian "taarof" and "Moozi" played out in the open.

Here is an example. Here you wrote to another 

suomynonA jan

by Niloufar Parsi on Fri Jan 16, 2009 02:38 PM PST

I really hope you did not mind my request. we need jewish people on our
side, and next to us, living together with us in harmony wherever we
are.

That is fine and dandy. BUT when you write to me this.

in other words, if i were a jew of european descent in Israel, i too
might be paranoid enough to project the crimes of the nazis onto all
humanity everywhere, and see my ancestors' colonizing deeds as a heroic
effort to 'save' jews throughout the world.  

That where that famous Wolfe-in-sheepskin comes in play.

Jews, Nazis, paranoia. in chee-shee-yeh khanom?.

If you were a Jews?. 

First let me clarify few flaws in your comments.

1. For the  1000 time. The fact that these Pals had lived and roamed their sheep and camels on the land in WB, it does not mean they had legally owned it . The land was owned by 3 entities, none of which this "converted former Jews" (as you labeled them.

a) the ottoman empire 

b) the whealthy Arab land owners (Effendi), who were leasing the land to this Arabs farmer and pesanse. 

c) Jews who in the 18th & 19th centuries had bought the land with  hard money

2. If I would  have  been a Palestinian, I would learn the true history of the place. Recognized the fact as a Muslim, learn the history of the Jews who had lived in these region, long before that little fellow Muhammad had come from the desert and forced his will through lust and loot of other people's land and property, then forced the inhabitance to follow his barbaric diktat.

If I were a Pal, I would research my past and as you wrote, perhaps consider going back to my Jewish roots, where I can be free and live in peace and harmony with my fellow Jews.

If I were a Pal. recognizing that, Jews had suffered enough under Christians and Muslims, I would have accepted UN Res. 181, which in 1947 had called for 2 states, one for Jews and one for Arabs

If I were a Pal, I would scream at that despotic Mullah or Imam, to stop poisoning my children with blind hate of others. Instead teach Muslims be tolerant toward not only Jews, but all non-Muslims. Remind that illiterate clergy that, Muslim treat all non-Muslim with less respect.

If I were a Pals. i would call my corrupt and despotic leaders and tell them, Israel may be part of my problem with having my own state, and life under oppressive religious dogma. But Israel is not the  ONLY solution to my problem with luck of education, liberty and minimum quality of life.

If I would be a Pal, I would try to negotiate as best as I can to return to the land on which I once had lived. If it is impossible, instead  of continue suffering and extort the world emotions with gory pictures of my wounded children., pack up my belonging and move elsewhere to create a better life for myself and my family through hard and honest work

THAT's WHAT I DID when life in Tehran became intolerable. That what millions and  millions of other people did, and see do every day.

the international Boycott Campaign is growing fast

more links:

Internationaal : //www.boycottisraeligoods.org/

//www.bigcampaign.org/

//members.chello.se/mibs/mibs/engelsk/m-bojkott-e.htm

Arabic: //www.kate3.com/index.jsp 

Bolivia : //bolivia.indymedia.org/es/2004/02/7121.shtml

Brazil: //www.midiaindep endente.org/pt/blue/2004/02/275174.shtml 

Belgium: PvdA: //users.pandora.be/lever/palestina04Boycot.htm

Canada : //www.imopa.ca/boycott.htm

Colorado ( USA ): //palestineday.eccmei.net/boycott/

Denmark: //www.danpal.dk/index.php?cat=50 7 

Dubai: //www.dubaidesigns.com/boycott_israel.htm

Duitsland: //www.sopos.org/aufsaetze/40181331cd6b9/1.phtml 

France: //www.pjpo.org/

//u-blog.net/france/article/Boycott.html

//membres.lycos.fr/boycottisrael/

//www.boycott-zionism.com/

Israel (Gush Shalom): //www.gush-shalom.org/archives/faq.html 

Islamic: //islamiczone.netfirms.com/F_A_Q_about_boycott.htm

Italy: //digilander.libero.it/ahlalbait/boycott-israel.html 

Japan : //village.infoweb.ne.jp/~voices/campaign.htm

Anti-zionist Jews: //www.matzpun.com/ 

Holland : //www.xs4all.nl/~npk/boycot/boycot.htm

Norway: //www.boikottisrael.no/eng_faq.html 

Palestina (PLO): //www.palestine-pmc.com/deta ils.asp?cat=1&id=1304

Russia: //engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php3?threadid=78779&goto=nextnewest 

UK: //www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-israel.html

Switzerland: //www.css-romande.ch/

South Afrika: //www.labournet.net/world/0205/kasrils1.html

Peace!

aqa mehdi

i hope i am not mistaken, but i find your words sincere. i do not mean to offend you, but there are a few people around who are really hard to take seriously at all. having said that, your first sentence is a little dubious, but that could be because of an unintended error in composition on your part, especiallty the unclear reference to 'the Islamist'.

I understand the sheer horror of the 1995 bombings you describe, and the collective pain your country felt. i believe that if i were a jew, and knowing about the unspeakable crimes committed against my people in the past by other so-called fellow 'human beings' in europe, i would also build the ultimate defence and protection around me and my people, at least those who would live by me in an exclusive enclave. perhaps i too would ignore the fact that the region i had conquered had been one of the safest in the world for jews throughout history. perhaps i would also treat all my 'enemies' (the ones i had created by colonizing their land) as potential nazis in the sense that i would not allow them to get into a position of being able to do THAT again. Never Again.

in other words, if i were a jew of european descent in Israel, i too might be paranoid enough to project the crimes of the nazis onto all humanity everywhere, and see my ancestors' colonizing deeds as a heroic effort to 'save' jews throughout the world. 

this paranoia is what many israelis exhibit. and it is leading to an annihilation of another group of people, those very people whose land and homes and water and livelihoods were forcibly taken away in oder to provide 'security' for jews. a crime redeemed by another crime.

and as tragic irony would have it, these same victims of israel are the very original jews, the 'chosen people' who have always lived on the land, the original jewish people who converted to islam through the ages.

and those of us watching from the outside can see that some form of intervention is needed before those nuclear bombs are put to use. before the palestinians are annihilated. before israeli brutality is projected onto all jews, before we get another cycle of THAT.

so the 'pain' of a peaceful global boycott is worth it. it takes effect slowly and then builds up to a point where israel HAS to talk REAL peace before it collapses totally. it is much better than war.

so tell me mehdi: honestly, what would you feel and do if you were a palestinian?

Peace!

suomynonA jan

I really hope you did not mind my request. we need jewish people on our side, and next to us, living together with us in harmony wherever we are.

somehow the terror of warmongering neocons, apartheid israel and extremist groups like al qaeda abusing the name of islam was projected onto ordinary, innocent muslims in so many places. and of all people, we know what it's like to be pointlessly and unfairly tainted for the crimes of others. the muslims of today are the jews of yesterday, marked, scrutinised, checked, abused, rejected, incarcerated and even kept in concentration camps like gaza. 

'never again' was ignored, again. their 'never again' was empty and meaningless in the end. this time, we should say 'never again' together. this time, perhaps it will work. 

Peace!

cameron jan, thanks

i really enjoy reading your work. you are right on the ball with the message.

Peace.

Khanoomeh Parsi

I too don't want to hurt the feeling of good Jewish people who are against the brutal Israeli regime, especially if they are Iranian Jews.

Thanks for all your efforts. I'll consider your suggestion.

-suomynonA

Cameron...

Please publish your interview as a separate blog. It is chilling. I just can't imagine. Thank you.

Let get the facts.

cameron writes:

C.B. : What about the casualties.   How many Palestinians and how many Israelis?

W. : According to the local news, about 40-50 Palestinian
fighters have been killed.  The Israelis cannot get them in their
tunnels.  These fighters are trained and know how to take care of
themselves, so instead the Israeli’s try to force them to surrender by
killing their families and civilians.  As far as the Israelis, more
than hundred of their soldiers are killed and more than 200 wounded. 
Every day around 10 of their tanks is being hit.

 Interesting. every publications your read, including the Pro-Palestinian ones, they all report more then 500 hamas dead fighters (along with many civilians) who have been sent to the 36,000 (72 x 500) virgins waiting for them up there. Only 13 Israelis (3 of which from friendly fire) were killed. 

So where your newly found friend from gaza (or is that Azzaa) got his numbers.

beside, Israeli press is fiercely independent. Also there is an election for PM is coming next month. Use your logic man, Do you really think Israelis would forgive their leaders for misleading them with one of the most sacred elements in Israel, truth about military casualties. No way, they would kick these leaders out of office with their ballots at no time.

boycotts don't work! I tell you what does...

boycotts don't work and will never work at least not in case of Israel. These companies that we are supposed to boycott have their way of making their money and when their revenue drops the first thing they drop is their employees many of whom have nothing to do with Israeli governments actions.

I tell you what will work. An organized organization like AIPAC in Washington but in interest of Palestinians who would pressure the congress and white house to push pressure on Israel to stop its inhumane policy toward Palestinians.

sorry.

Sorry to intrude.

I will pass on the list to all my contacts.

Thank you Niloufar.

Dear Cameron, lets stay on the task of boycotting Israel and not

get distracted by Israel's defenders. Let us know your suggestions about how to proceed with the boycott. If you have done a research or if you have taken any action let us know about it. This thread is dedicated to the boycott of Israel and we know there are probably 3 or 4 pro Israeli defenders on this site who do their best to change the subject. Lets not get distracted.

to Solhvadoosti

 12-14 Jan: One fighter after weeks of civiliansPosted January 14, 2009 by talestotell
Categories: Uncategorized
Tags: gaza, middle east, palestine, warLast night, Monday, at about 5am, one of our calls was to Jazeera Hotel in Al Mina (the port area) which had been shelled by Israeli ships. When we first arrived it seemed there was no-one there, but eventually the medics retrieved the two caretakers from under the rubble. 50 year old Faieq Moshtaha had shrapnel injuries but was able to walk and was put into our accompanying ambulance, 33 year old Helmi Moshtaha had shrapnel inuries and a deep head wound and was stretchered into my ambulance. Read the rest of this post »//talestotell.wordpress.com/ Here is a blogger from Gaza, verifying my colleague's statement.  Just look around and you will find numerous accounts of this.  As far as your remarks about Arabs … I have nothing to add as I have addressed all this in my previous posts/comments.The reason for Israeli casualty is simple.  They are on the offensive.  As soon as they enter an area, they are ambushed.  The oldest military strategy. It was also proven in the 33 days war with Lebanon.  That is why Israel is heavily depending on airpower. Also please note, he says according to local news.   This is an interview from the other side.  That was the whole purpose.  Browse through other news agencies and you may find some truth.  As far as PressTV, if you read tight in the beginning I personally regard it as biased as Fox news.Before you go ahead and accuse someone, get the facts right…in any event what you believe or not is of no consequence. And don’t call me dude! 

Thank you Niloufar - the message is out and distributed!

Everyone of us has to make sure that this list is distributed as widely as possible. Israel needs to learn to behave in accordance with international and humanitarian law. It has gotten away with murder for far too long only because of the unconditional support of the United States.

What Israel has been doing to the Palestinians for over 60 years and continously ever since the establishment of the State of Israeli has been equal if not worse than what the Nazi's committed; the only difference being that Israel is conducting its ethnic cleansing through a slow and painful process.