Maryam Nayeb Yazdi

JJ,

My comment unjustly and with no basis was removed. I wanted to let you know that you are indifferent from the very people that you criticize as the vicious autocrats in Iran. You removed my comment with no justification but only your own interpretation of your own law. People who know sociology they know what I am talking about.

You know and everyone on this thread and other threads know that I have been treated much harsher than I have treated one today but have never ran to you crying foul to shut someone up because I didn't like his/her opinion.

We've been though this discussion before in many occasions and just wanted to let you know your action is different from you preaching.

Best,

VPK, you are exactly right...

as you said..."Whether we like it or not Islam is here for time being. In order to deal
with Iran we need to deal with Islam. People like Boroujerdi will help
in this".

Broujerdi's is just a tool and despite of his own preaching, he is using Islam as a pure political tool also, defeating his own purpose at beast and at least a hypocrite.

This is also why the author of this blog and many opposition groups are going out of their way to support a cause that goes totally against their own core belief. He is just a tool.

Give him

a break. Here is a guy who is trying to do right best he can. Why are people beating on him? I have myself said Islam is not reformable. But why should we dump on someone who tries? Better to have sane Muslims than insane ones.

Whether we like it or not Islam is here for time being. In order to deal with Iran we need to deal with Islam. People like Boroujerdi will help in this. He reaches the minds of Muslims better than any of us will. I say more power to him.

Why is Borjerdi called a

Why is Borjerdi called a Charlatan? Please back up your assertion when you spew IRI's talking points.

Maryam - Thanks for post and compliment - I signed.

.

Roozbeh - while reading references ...

please do not think that I agree with them or that I follow them blindly, but, keep in mind that his opinions are the closest thing we have to Islam's Renaissance, and a big departure from "my way or the highway" attitude of IRI.

Thanks.

Midwesty - Boroujerdi has GALLS

Mr. Boroujerdi was tried in a religious court for his opinions against IRI.  The reasons are:

* He went public with his opinions and actually said them in his sermons. 

* As my references show, Mr. Boroujerdi has a Rasaaleh on the negation of velaayat-e faghih.

* He thinks that the freaking "Khomeini golden years" that ALL the green leaders talk about is BS.

The Ayatollahs/opponents that you referred to may say things in private, but it takes GALLS to go public, write opinions on it and basically negate the whole IRI system.  So, he was yanked off his home, tried in secrete, jailed and probably die shortly after release, while the Ayatollahs and the Green leaders who still think Khomeini was God-sent will go on living.  I ask you: besides all the references/opinions in my last post, which one of your folks has said anything close to the following for the Bahman atrocities

بهمن  روز عزای ملی را به هم میهنان تسلیت میگوئیم
بار دیگر سالروز درد و رنج ملت ایران رسید
 یاد آن ویرانگری از جمع خاموشان رسید
حاصل آتش فروزیهای مشتی  بی خدا
مرگ ونابودی به نسلی با سرو سامان رسید
از قدوم نحس شیاد بزرگ  بر ملک جم
خشک شد دریا  و رود وقحطی باران رسید
هر گروهی را که فرمان برد از آن اجنبی
حالیا با شرمساری خود به این برهان رسید
کو ندانستیم و بر ما رفت از آقا..فریب
تحفه از ایل وتبار سیک هندوستان رسید
قدر هر نعمت ندانستیم  و با هر توطئه
بی خبر ماندیم و اینک حاصل کفران رسید
گر که پرسیم ناسپاسی شما بهر چه بود؟
گوید از ابلیس ظلمت وعده و فرمان رسید
سالها از آن سیه روزی ایرانی گذشت
روز بر روز آتش فتنه به هر دامان رسید
کودکان  افسرده مادرها غمین و مضطرب
رنج و بدبختی به مردم از بر شیخان رسید
نیست در ایران کسی را همرهی با همرهان
گوشه زندان به داد  عاشق ایران رسید
فقر و فحشا و فساد و اعتیاد نسل ما
از وجود آن ریاکاران به هر انسان رسید
قدرت غربی نگر  بر شیخ دادند اعتبار
چون به نفت  مفت یا با قیمت ارزان رسید
هر مقام وشغل سود آور به چنگ شیخکان
گوشه خانه به هر آزاده از مردان رسید
از حراج نفت و سهم خمس هر پیر و جوان
چند میلیاردی  به دست اکبر کرمان رسید
از ره آورد امام  امت راحل کنون
گریه بر گور عزیزان  و غم وحرمان رسید
هموطن  ننگ من وتو 22 بهمن است
در چنین روزی گناه ما به فرزندان رسید
پاک کن آن لکه از گلزار میهن ای حبیب
آفت آنروز بر هر غنچه بستان رسید.
//www.boroujerdi.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=156&Itemid=9

or the following

By Ayatollah Boroujerdi

//bameazadi16.blogspot.com/2010/02/blog-post_21.html

تمامیت جنایت و بی عدالتی ، طی سه دهه حكومت ولایت فقیه

سی سال به بدبختی ملت سپری شد

درد آمد و آهش بنگر حاصل آن شد

سی سال خشونت عَلم راه جفا شد

عسرت به بشر داد و خیانت به خدا شد

سی سال قفس كرده خلایق كه عزا شد

از كثرت كشتار، شفق سرخ بلا شد

سی سال به زنجیر ستم مذهب ما شد

غرقاب فتن كرده خزان، اشك به خون شد

سی سال به تبلیغ و صداقت به كفن شد

محصول به هر وعده نگر، سفره غم شد

سی سال شرف مُرد و هدر اصل بقا شد

آزادی و انصاف به بازار فنا شد

سی سال به جادوی عبا ننگ بپا شد

عمامه كلاه مغولی بهر خطا شد

سی سال ز نعلین، جنایت به جهان شد

در معبر تقویم كمرها چو كمان شد

سی سال ز نكبت تن ما جامه سیه شد

از رنج و مصیبت، وطنم محو جنون شد

سی سال به مسجد زده تزویر و ریا شد

از منبر و محراب سیاست به سما شد

سی سال شرایع به جزا، لوث جنان شد

از گفته ملا همه ایران به شرر شد

سی سال زیارت همه ترویج قبا شد

موقوفه به تاراج و قداست همه پر شد

سی سال دروغ از پی هر روز نوا شد

دین ملعبه و حوزه و تفسیر به شك شد

سی سال نقابی ز دیانت به سرا شد

اموات به گور از عجبش خنده كنان شد

سی سال یزیدی به حسین مرثیه خوان شد

خود كشته و بر فاجعه اش روضه بخوان شد

سی سال كه هم میهن ما خانه نشین شد

بیكاری و بی پولی یاران سَم ما شد

سی سال كتك خوردم و خاموش خبر شد

این مرغك خوابیده روان سوی اوین شد

سی سال قضاوت به قساوت ره ما شد

قاضی ز عدالت تهی و شمر زمان شد

سی سال به دستان و به پایم همه غل شد

با خنجر نامرد، زبان، بند دهان شد

سی سال به اعضاء بدن، تیر فشان شد

پیری به برم آمد و حاكم به فرح شد

MM,

Thanks for spreading lies...These links came up after this guy claimed to be a prophet just to get some intentional attention for his sorry butt. However if that's true that this guy is being arrested for his progressive ideas, why IRI doesn't arrest other scholars in Iran who also believe in the separation of religion and state?

Thanks MM for the links I'll read them tonight

I fully agree with you and can not understand how one can equate his objections to any religion into dislike for people who happen to follow that faith, most likely by accident of Birth. I mean If I was born in US, I'd most likely be a christian. If Raul ws born in Iran he'd be muslim. Would that make us into different people , both as grown up adults, having had a chance to study and learn? 

And thank you Midwesty for your response. I and you for sure differ on political matters, and nothing wrong with that. I am fairly sure though based on your comments you have a lot more in common with Mr. Boroojerdi than you would with ahmadinezhad or khamenei. 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Thank You MM

Thank you for your informative comment. 

Mr. Boroujerdi's opinions is closest to Islam's Renaissance

As some of you know, I am a secular person and believe in the peaceful existence of various religions as well as non-believers under a secular system. 

The reason Mr. Boroujerdi is in IRI's jails and being tortured is because the IRI elite know that the jailed Ayatollah's written opinions on:

Why is Velaayat-e Faghih negated, according to Boroujerdi

//bameazadi16.blogspot.com/2010/02/blog-post_21.html

..........................

Reasons for being against IRI

//www.boroujerdi.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=242&Itemid=9

...........................

His opinions against torture

//www.boroujerdi.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=186&Itemid=9

.............................

His calls for a true referendum in Iran

//www.boroujerdi.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=198&Itemid=9

.............................

His progressive views on women

//www.boroujerdi.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=219&Itemid=9

//www.boroujerdi.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=276&Itemid=2

................................

His support of secularism being compatible w/ Islam

//iranian.com/main/blog/david-et-28

...............................

as well as other opinions (//www.boroujerdi.eu/index.php) will shatter the monopoly of Velaayat-e Faghih over the phony religion that the VF and company are promoting in Iran.  Unfortunately, chances are that Mr. Boroujerdi will be kept in jail and gradually poisoned (//www.boroujerdi.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=314&Itemid=2), and let out of prison as he is close to die.  However, I hope that his opinions will be a guiding light for other Shi'ites who want to live in peace with others.

As far as I am concerned, Mr. Boroujerdi is an ally in the struggle against the injustices of IRI.  And, as the title says, the collection of Mr. Boroujerdi's opinions is the closest thing we have to Islam's Renaissance.

Roozbeh...

I couldn't care less about a charlatan like this self-proclaimed Ayatollah who thinks he is in contact with the 12th Imam.

Do I agree for him to be tortured, of course not but I am one person with so much resources. I have to choose between deflecting attacks on Iran or go on fact finding mission to protect a charlatan's right. Sorry I know a person is as important but I rather deflect the attacks against Iran. 

I've seen the 80s Iran. These guys are only after a 15 min fame, a naive western university fellowship or getting as much benefits as a political refugee.

When you hear about an Iranian who is not ashamed to fake that he is gay in order to get an asylum, after a while you kind of lose your sensitivity about these stories.

These low-lives exist in every society but ours are heavily highlighted because the Zionist, MKO, lefties, and monarchists (who are seriously hit by IRI) wants to.

Again I am not in any position to find out that the torture accusations are correct about this guy but from the circumstances and experience, I know there are people who like to take advantage of IRI's weak international position to gain some personal advantage.

AO

"use other nations, not their own.  In fact, the very same governments
that you point to provide great freedoms and democracy for their own
people".

Are you for real? You think the western governments are innocent? Haven't you seen or heard about what they've done to their own people. The water-boarding law, rendition flights and assassinating their own citizens are only the tip of the iceberg.

Don't mix things up. If you see less (if there is any less) atrocities inside the West is not because their governments are any innocent.

Governments are all the same. People are who make the difference and keep the governments relatively in check. But this is topic for another discussion.

Midwesty: Thanks for your response

And I ignore your harsh personal tone, based on icorrect , but not by any means justified, assumptions about what I stand for.

Now It is good to hear from you, a supporter of Islamic system and regime (and please correct me if wrong) to akcnowledge the presence of torture at islamic regime's jails. Because this takes us to the topic of this blog and actually addresses your sharp exchange with raul.

Mr Boroojerdi, the cleric is actually saying that the torture in islamic regime's jails are systematic, based on his own experience, and is against the rules of Islam. This perception in my own (even a bigger of nothing as yourself!) shared by vast majority of Iranians in Iran itself. Dont you think it is about the time that guys like you step out and condemn these atrocities loud and clear? Dont you think this kind of attrocities perpetrated aganist muslims by a government calling itself "Islamic" , and headed by a man who -very modestly- calls himself Gods deputy on earth, only tarnishes the name of Islam, muslims and justifies comments such as Raul's?

BTW, yes torture in jails can happen anywhere, but systematic torture is a trademark of fascist dictatorships. Western democracies, like them or not, are not fascist dictatorships.

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Midwesty - Here's the important distinction

You say:

 However I can't help but to see your hypocrisy when you hold the western government democracy against our face but fail to see their human rights violation in every corner of the earth.

Here's the problem.  A lot of people on this site, and in other places, immediately point out to U.S. wars around the globe, etc. to compare human rights abuses when there is talk of same in Iran.  the distinction between the two is that, as you correctly point out, other governments -if they abuse others--abuse other nations, not their own.  In fact, the very same governments that you point to provide great freedoms and democracy for their own people.  in the case of the IR, however, it's completely the opposite.  The IR talks about freedom and democracy for everyone else on the planet, but it brutally abuses its own people.  I have to tell you, I personally probably would have less of a problem with the IR if it did the opposite.  At some point, you have to stop being a "citizen of the world" when it comes to your own people, and put the interest of your own people ahead of others, which is something that is completely alien to the IR.  

Roozbeh...

How smart is your question? Do you think if you pose this question to the very people that you are accusing of violating the human rights, they will give you a straight answer?

I (as big of a nothing as I am) not only oppose torture but don't even deny its existence in Iran. It does exist but for various reasons of which many of the reasons are independent from the rule of the government.

However I can't help but to see your hypocrisy when you hold the western government democracy against our face but fail to see their human rights violation in every corner of the earth.

Midwesty and sargord:.

Do you guys think it is correct to imprison a cleric , and torture him, because he disagrees openly with the regime's interpretation and of Islam?

Roozbeh

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

NAJA doesn't recruit teens! I don't talk much about my NAJA time

Everything is sacred

Raoul,

I have always a good answer for a backward redneck such as yours who claim going to the moon on a German rocket with the help of German scientists, that why I came to this country?

I simply say:

I followed trail of the oil!

I've never flagged anyone

I've never flagged anyone here on the IC, despite a steady torrent of abuse directed my way. Reason? Only spineless cowards do it. Like the kids on the schoolyard that used to go crying back to their daddy every time someone looked at them funny.

You're lucky your late teens

You're lucky your late teens are long past, Anon. That was a harder detail than usual last year.

To: 'Midwesty'

I just read the stuff and realized you were addressing me.
Yes, I do usually sport a smile on my very handsome face.
I do however avoid engaging folks such as yourself, as I am totally different from your likes.  :-)
People flag your writings by their choice.  You people need to stop whining all the time, abandon your backward islam, and try to embrace our culture.  The very same culture that allows your likes to come here, go to school, work, and express your thoughts [however inferior] freely without any fear of prosecution, or persecution.
You are welcome to write more, but I will not respond.

Raoul, The One and Only True Deity worshipped by your allah.

Midwesty is full of crap Sargord he didn't serve in NAJA, I did!

Everything is sacred

I was in Border Police force that later

was merged with two other law enforcement forces. Correct, I served in NAJA.

Huh, you were a NAJA

Huh, you were a NAJA attached military conscript. Like in the movie Offsides. Are you Tehrani?

Raoul: classic case of being a chicken hawk. 

So...

How did it taste?

So much for a tough guy ey! I wanna see if you still have your handsome smiles on, tough guy!

So why are you crying the tough guy? Why did you flag me

I thought you were a tough guy!

Maryam,

I served in the Iranian police force as I was drafted for the military service. The culture of torture is much more deep rooted than what you see in the government. Believe or not, government has been confronting that problem for a while. I know you might be reluctant towards what I say but I invite you to research on this subject before pointing out the accusation fingers to anyone. As you see there are enough opportunists to be eager and more than happy to air our dirty laundry at any time.

To: 'Maryam Nayeb Yazdi'

Since most of us are not trying to become muslims, the best approach for you would be to travel to Iran, have an audience with all those islamic imams, and explain the above in a more elaborate manner so that they can back off from their corruption, etc.  After that would you also be kind enough as to contact the Saudis and then the rest of those muslims and explain how peaceful and nice islam is supposed to be as [of course] exemplified by the life of Muhammad himself, who led an exemplary peaceful, peace-loving life filled with respect for non-muslims and women.  My understanding is that Muhammad travelled throughout the region preaching love for fellow humans, and respect for women.
Cheers now, :-)

This is not about Islam

Iran is a majority Islamic country, even before the 1979 Revolution. The Shah of Iran was a Muslim as well...in fact, Islam has been part of Iran for a very long time. What is happening in Iran is about money, greed, power, and nothing else. Iranians want freedom and change. In Iran, people show their protest against the government by going onto their roofs or going into the streets and crying out "Allah O Akbar." 

On the journey for a free Iran, many of the activists and supporters who work tirelessly to spread the words of the Iranian people and who are against the Islamic Republic of Iran are Muslim. In order to gain freedom for Iran, we must first stop misunderstanding the situation and blaming Islam for the works of a cruel and mental dictatorship regime. The Iranian regime misuses the name of Islam to justify it's horrific actions...we, as democratic people, should not fall for it and make the same mistakes.