Disenchanted

My point again

I don't want to break taboos; rather not have them at all! If there is a reason to not do something then explain it. Here is an example.

When my daughter was 8 her mom got her a very suggestive outfit. I refused to allow her to wear it. Not because of religion or that it was indecent. But because an 8 year old wearing that a mistake. It is like putting on a sign saying "abuse me".

I explained my reason and got my way. But an adult woman should know how to handle it. Therefore I will leave it to the discretion of my daughter. But at 8 she did not know anything and needed my guidance. Not a taboo.

Examine taboos before breaking them!

       I agree. Just because something has become a taboo for some ignorant reason it does not have to stay like that.

      I advocate a scientifically informed, rational approach to reexamine the taboos.

      I however think any obsession with sex and nudity be it negative (cover it all) or positive (uncover it all) is wrong headed!

....

    duplicate of a good thing!

Breaking a taboo

I do not believe in taboos at all; rather laws based on reason. A taboo is based on arbitrary rule; from long ago and not able to adapt. But rules by reason may adapt to fit the needs of their time.

For example say pork. When We all know that eating raw pork may be dangerous. Muslim and Jewish people have a taboo against it. But now that we realize why it is easy to make it safe. Hence we do not need the taboo; just cook it well.

Another example is going around naked. I don't want to sit on a bus seat where a naked dude sat. It is not hygienic. Did he properly wipe his bottom? I do not want to find out. But on a beach in the heat I have no problem with nudity. We may always have separate nude beaches if some people don't want it.

Same goes for all other taboos. You just need reason and logic.

If a "prohibition" is logical then you should be able to reason it. Otherwise the prohibition has outlived its use and might as well be dropped.

The reverse is also true. For example there was no prohibition on marrying a 9 year old 1400 years ago. But there is one today in most places. The point is that rules must be made by reason. Then updated as required not by rigid "taboos". 

Taboo? Dignity?

What is the real taboo here?

A woman posing nude or participating in porn? Well, those things do absolutely nothing for me, but if that's what they want to do, so be it.

To me, the greater taboo and the greater loss of dignity has been from February 1979 through the present day.

Not every taboo is to be broken!

     VPK,

    There are lots of taboos in every society, some of them are best not to be broken. Cheating on one's spouse and betraying one's own country are also taboos (Not sure about MEK!).

     I am sure you are not advocating breaking of those Taboos. To me dropping one's underpants is also a taboo to be kept!

    In other words there are many ways to become heroes. Some jump on a hand grenade, some jump in front of  train to save a child and some drop their undergarment! I guess there are heroes and then there are heroes.

The first gay marraige in middle east was in Iran, in 1970's

What is a taboo and what gets "broken"

As other said "taboo" depends on your values. Plus that of people you care about and influence you in a big way. For example being topless is not a taboo in France. Therefore it is no big deal if the person and her loved ones are ok. But I will respond to the question. The big taboo will be one that both men and women will break.

• Openly denouncing Islam.
• Openly criticizing Mohammad.
• Openly rejecting Islam.
• Going from Islam to another religion say Christianity.
• Proclaiming one is an atheist; pagan or not "of the book".
• Admitting to being gay openly.
• Demanding gay rights
• Demanding gay marriage.

Many of the above have already been done. But not in Iran due to fear. They will be once Islamic Republic is gone. Many of these are not sexual but will have a big impact.

EXPAT

Thanks for info. I didn't know people get arrested for vulgar language. Seems each country has different rules and regulation.

   In Iran, the bus driver comes in the bus and publically says : All people from Afghanistan out of the bus.

Poor guys leave the bus without any complain of being discriminated because of their ethnic background.

Siavash..

The way the current English legal system stands, I will tell you that if a black person makes a derogatory comment about an indian/asian person, he WILL get arrested in England because it DOES count as racism.  It is basically discriminating about someone on the grounds of their ethnicity.  I don't think the law cares whether the person making the comment has a history embedded in slavery or not. 

Regards. 

expat's question

"..if a black person makes a derogatory comment about an Indian person, they are not being racist because the blacks never took Indians as slaves?" expat

yes dear. That is not racist. Racism is "institutionalized" and there is a power issue behind it. Even Indian or black person makes a derogatory comments against white folks, that comment doesn't make the black or Indian racist because they are powerless. We can say the black is prejudice or bias, but we can't say he/she is racist.

There is a university course in cross cultural studies that can help you to know more about racism and how it functions. In fact, my Master's degree thesis was about racism. 

Siavash..

So if a black person makes a derogatory comment about an Indian person, they are not being racist because the blacks never took Indians as slaves? And who said Iranians and Arabs are from the same race? Iranians are predominantly from the Aryan race whilst Arabs are a mixture of Assyrian, Kurds, Bedouins..

Seems I have to go further.... okay buddy no problem

In 1936, the Japanesse army occupied China and they massacred Chinesse in villiages and towns in China. The official report says it was around 260,000 Chinesses, but UNofficial report says it was over 300,000 Chinesses people got massacred. In the dairy of Japanesse soldiers which was found in barakets they referred to Chinesse people as "Black Aunts". Recently, the chinesse government is suing the Japan emperor for that massacre.

In late 19 century, U.S was facing large population of Chinesse immigrant who were coming to America to work and they built the transamerica railroad across the country. Poor Chinessses were working hard and at the same time they were suffering from racism from white Europeans. White people from European decendant were robbing their stores and businesses pushing the chinesse people to the segeregated area that was called later on "China town". In 1885, U.S government put a law that wanted all Chinesse women return to China otherwise they will get arrested. There was many chinesse women selling their bodies on streets in order to survive. Some were cutting their hair short to pretend they were men. The law was enforced till mid 1940's when president Rosevelt banned the law.

Nowadays, Chinese scholars talk about "Chiana town" as a "monument of institutionalized racism" in their talk shows and in their documented text book, but they never refer to Japanesse as being racist against them. The reason is because Japan history doesn't have slaverly and never took Chinesse as slave, but white Europeans took other nations as slaves.

The differences is the history of these 2 civilalizations. The history of white Europeans intimated with slaverly and slave trade from predominantely from African nations. The similar situation was during Apartheid in south africa. The white Europeans broughts slaves from Inida. The races were severly separated called "Apartheid" mean separation of races.  The Indians were facing racism in south africa during apartheid regim.  

As a result there is rivalry between ethnic groups has nothing to do with racism. for example, the hate among Hindus against muslims in India because muslim massacred thousands of hindus to pursuade them to convert to Islam. Or recent conflict in Chicknea in Russia there was a big bloodshed among 2 different religion sects. In fact all these fights were among people from the same race. The fight between "Camel Tiger party" in Seri Lanca and Indians has nothing to do with race. Members of Camel Tirger party put bomb in the Indian train. Just recently they killed 1000 of innocent Indians in the train. They are from the same race, but they can't stand each other. It has nothing to do with their races.  

Racism is wester concept and it means  RACIAL HATE and it is rooted on history of slaverly.

expat.....

       The folks arguing with us have at least 3 problems:

       --Seemingly they don't quite understand English!

       -- No grasp of logic to realize they are not consistent in their positions.

       -- A touch of Alzheimer, as they forget what they wrote in their last comment! :-)

         all things considered, they are ok! :-)

Siavash welcome ashore, to west that is!

    Here is racism for you from Wikipedia:

   "It is applied especially to the practice or advocacy of racial discrimination of a pernicious nature (i.e. which harms particular groups of people), and which is often justified by recourse to racial stereotyping or pseudo-science"

 The latter part of that applies to your attitude. By keep saying everyone does it in Iran you ain't solving nothing! Some Arabs also call us "Ajam", which basically means "mute" or "dumb". That is racist too. Any one home?

     Forough I have read years ago. I am sure there are some nuggets of beauty of insight in there. But all in all history of mankind is long and I Have problem keeping up with lots of good stuff, Plato, Rumi, Hafez, Hume, Darwin,  Kant, Sartre, James, Freud, Feynman, Dirac, Einstein, Sohrab Sepehri and tons of contemporaries that unfortunately Forough can wait! :-)

Sexism is as bad as Racism

 "To justify some basically racist remark because some Hajis in Iran use it sets a new low in standard! " Disenchanted

Like I said before "lizard eater arab" is not racist remark. Again your lack of knowledge about Iran history makes me believe you are not Iranian or you lost your touch with Iranian culture and Iranian society. The fact that you don't even know who Forokh Farokhzad is and what was her poems are all about.

   Now, let me educate you more about Iranian culture and I hope you don't take my friendly educational advise as offensive remark.

We have another slang for Arabs. When someone who is uneducated and dumb we say: he is "AZ BIGH ARAB" means the person is really stupid. I didnt create these expressions in Farsi,it is part of our culture. Again this has nothing to do with racism. If it is still unclear,please let me know I go further.

Now, whoever put the notion of racism in part of your thought process, the same sources must have informed you that SEXISM is as bad as racism. Men can drop their tops in the front of camera and women can not. That is UNequality between men and women. If you don't believe me, ask those sources who thought you about racism, I am sure they will confirm my statement.  

               LONG LIVE FREEDOM, LONG LIVE EQUALITY BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN                                                         

Disenchanted..

The more I read your posts, the more I completely agree.  I think it's opportunistic for people to attribute her picture to more than it is (if that makes sense).  I also agree to a certain extent with Maziar who said:

'Taboo's are self assesed based on personal belives.'

However, if society DIDN'T have taboos, if people didn't have some kind of a moral compass, then surely we would be sub-human? 

Simorg....what's "oozing" from your mind

    does not smell good buddy :-) What's with you and Fart obsession tonight?! :-)

Did you have too much to drink?! What happend to liberation talk and advocacy for attack on Iran?! Huh...

 Mash ghasem jaan beware not to get caught in his wind! :-) I had to flag your post not because it was rude (that it was) but because it was irrelavant to the topic. I am sure you agree.

Imagine Goltiti letting it

Imagine Goltiti letting it rip on some arty farty black and white French video. Freedom of expression regardless of which orifice it comes from. Lets just hope she doesn't ghorme sabzi before it lol

Exactly! Simorg got it right!

That is the kind of liberation we should expect -freedom to fart in public- if we buy into the narrative that Golshifteh liberated the Iranian women by her nipple!

      Again, I don't know what she had in mind. HER ACT IS NOT A BIG DEAL! YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT. It was what some made of her act that is the big deal. Those who tried to make a heroine from her.

        This story has got a life of its own now! That is what needs to be examined and the perception it created needs to be corrected!

      So I advised those "open bright minds" (VPK, Simorg, Mash ghasem perhpas and more)  that are laughing at rest of us for creating the BIG FUSS to realize, the joke is on them! :-)

To fart or not to fart in Public? you might be to something my

friend.

Exactly what it is, I really don't know yet , but do keep in mind that anything below the waist is most sacrilegious, and definity no Golititi (as you delightfuly put it) or any other type either.

Lets keep this within the limits and boundries of "respectful," "decent," middle class culture. Nothing to disrupt the lobotomized flow of things. Cheers

Golshifteh has done visually what Forough Farokhzad had done many decades before in her poetry. If Forough was alive she would have unconditional support for Farahani.

To fart in public!

To fart in public! LOL

Everything else has been done by Iranian actrsses including raunchy les sex scene in Circumstance. All this fuss over Goltiti lol

Thanks for posting the Farsi texts from other blogs but...

Since lot of people use it, it is ok! hum....

Common term in Iran

 "I think what I have an issue with and perhaps expat too and others is the expression you used: "lizard eater arabs". " Disenchanted

That tells me either the writer of this blog is NOT Iranian or at the best scenario he/she has not been raised in Iran. No familiarity to Persian culture and the manner of Iranian speech in public because he/she has been away from Iran for many years and his/her idea  been structured among predominately racist western world.

Even Iranian Hajis who are very faithful to their religion and they are willing to sacrifice their lives for Islam once they return from Mecca, they were using the term "lizard eater arabs". That is very common word in Farsi. The attitude of Persians toward Arabs has not been changed over centuries.

.......

Taboo's are self assesed based on personal belives.

So INMHO a personal fare of other SHOULD not be any of other's business or TABOO for that matter.

Maziar

از تصویر نیمه

این روزها مسولین جمهوری اسلامی از سر درماندگی، به هر موضوعی چنگ می اندازند تا با به انحراف کشاندن افکار ایرانیان، تا آنها را از آگاهی بر جنایاتی که انجام می دهند، دور نگاه دارند. آخرین تشبثی که این مسولین به آن آویزان شده اند، موضوع نیمه برهنه شدن خانم گلشیفته فراهانی در فیلم کوتاهی است که در فیسبوک و سایتها منتشر شده و شامل گفتاری بود چون ؛ "به من نگاه کن که در این لحظه برهنه ام و رها از بند تن و روان و اینکه هنر من نقش بازی کردن است."

حال که دستگاه های پرهزینه تبلیغاتی رژیم بلندگوی وا اسلاما را توسط مبلغان حکومتی و مذهبی سر داده اند، باید پرسید چرا آنان در زمانیکه پاسدار مزدور در زندان بکارت دختر نوجوان و یا جوانی را قبل از اعدام، به بهانه اجرای حکم مذهبی نافقیهان خود می گرفت، صدای گوش خراششان را کسی نشنید! آیا کسی از مسولین حکومتی و مذهبی نظام جمهوری اسلامی صحنه دلخراش تحویل جسد قربانی به همراه شیربها را توسط پاسداری که جسم و جان دختر آنان را گرفته بود و بدین صورت بر بیان رسمی تجاوز دولتی صحه می گذاشت، موجب ایجاد تنفر مردم از دین و مذهب نیانگاشت. گرچه گاها جسدی تحویل نشد و یا مخفیانه در گورستان خاوران دفن شد. اما درعوض هزینه گلوله ای که صرف به خاک و خون کشیدن آن مبارزان شد از خانواده های قربانیان دریافت گردید. اینک شما قضاوت کنید: آیا تصویر نیمه برهنه گلشیفته که فریاد برابری جنسیتی را سر می دهد، بیشتر اسلام فقاهتی را به خطر می اندازد، یا تجاوز و کشتاری که بدست پاسداران و سپاهیان مجری فرمان مصباح ها و ولی فقیه ها در اوین، گوهردشت، کهریزک و... انجام گرفت؟

تاریخ همواره نشان داده است که دیکتاتورها تا آخرین روزهای حکومت خود غرق در باده ی غرور و قدرت هرگز در نمی یابند که چرا ملت ها به دنبال جامعه دموکراتیکی هستند که در آن برابری زن و مرد، آزادی بیان و اندیشه، آزادی مذهب و عقیده، آزادی تشکیل صنف و حقوق برابر، آزادی مدنی و اجتماعی و مواردی از این دست برای همه آحاد ملت و برای همه ایرانیان از هر قومیت و جنسیت و از هر تفکر تامین نماید. تعطیل کردن خانه سینما اندکی قبل از برآمدن جنجالی برهنگی اعتراضی خانم فراهانی، که تنها پایگاه باقی مانده از هنرمندان در شرایطی که محدودیت برای آنها و نه امثال لمپنهائی همچون ده نمکی و شریفی نیا، بیداد می کند مگر چیزی به جز از سیاست تحمیلی عدم تحمل هیچ مخالفی را در رژیم جمهوری اسلامی می رساند. آیا وظیفه یک هنرمند سینما این نیست که نقش واگذار شده را به نحوی اجرا کند که واقعیت داستان فیلم را نشان دهد و سرانجام اگر برهنه بودن کسی به اسلام فقاهتی ضربه می زند، پس چرا نیمه عریانی مردان در سوگواری های مذهبی تاسوعا و عاشورا و غیره مورد اعتراض این فریبکاران قرار نمی گیرد؟ آیا فساد اخلاقی که توسط مسولین حکومتی و مذهبی در آپارتمانها و خانه های لوکس انجام می گیرد از نظر آئین اسلام فقاهتی حلال و جایز است، آنهایی که پرونده هایشان در فجایعی همچون " فلاحیان و مهماندار هواپیما"، "سعید امامی و باشگاه زعفرانیه"، "روحانی معلم اخلاق و زنای محصنه" و هزاران موارد دیگری که چه تاکنون افشا شده و یا دیرتر فاش خواهد شد؟

امروزه مردم ایران با کوشش های پیگیر خود نشان داده اند که به دنبال جامعه ای بدور از هرگونه تبعیض و بی عدالتی هستند و آزادی مدنی و اجتماعی را در هر شرایطی جستجو می کنند. این آزادی تنها می تواند خارج از هر نوع جنسیت گرایی، مذهب گرایی، ایتکا به قومیت، و یا محدود به هر نوع تفکری برقرار شود. رژیم جمهوری اسلامی تا امروز حتی کوچکترین منفذی که می توانست مایه امیدواری کوشندگان سیاسی و مدنی برای تحقق جامعه ای مبتنی بر آرمان های حقوق بشر باشد، باقی نگذاشته است. این نظام منحط دینی امروز برای ادامه بقای خود به هر نوع سرکوبی دست می زند. رژیم در واقع امروز از بعد ایدئولوژیک خود نیز عبور کرده و ناچار شده است با در نوردیدن مرزهای ایدئولوژیک و انهدام کامل کردن قداست و مشروعیت ساختگی اش به رژیمی کاملا سرکوبگر تبدیل شود. رژیمی که در آستانه انتخابات فرمایشی بر تعداد اعدامها افزوده است و یا با زندانی کردن دانشجویان، کارگران، زنان، معلمان، هنرمندان، نویسندگان، خبرنگاران، متفکران، افراد گروههای سیاسی و مدنی می کوشد ناشن دهد که شنیدن هر صدای مخالفی برای او غیرقابل تحمل است. این رژیم در این راه حتی از دستگیری و حذف همکاران و همفکران سابق خود در حکومت ابایی ندارد. ارتکاب این همه جنایات بدست رژیم سرکوبگر ولایت فقیه ثابت کرده است که دموکراسی و آزادی تنها و تنها در سایه جدایی کامل نهاد دین از نهاد حکومت میسر است.

شایسته است در راستای امکان برقراری چنین حکومتی که در آن آزادی عقیده ، دین و مذهی، و هر نوع تفکری پاسداشته می شود ما ایرانیان بیش از این فریب دستگاههای تبلیغاتی حکومتی را در مورد تقابل برهنگی زن و حفظ بیضه اسلام و موارد بسیاری از این دست را نخورده و اجازه ندهیم بر پایه قرائت سنتی بودن جامعه ایران و احترام به آن سنن، کسانی بر طبل تبلیغات رژیم بیشتر بکوبند. ایرانیان دنبال فرهنگی هستند که در ادامه تاریخ گذشته آنان و بر پایه های تمدن امروزی استوار باشد، جامعه ای که به همان میزان که برای زن محجبه آزادی قائل است که از آزادی برای سایر زنان با تفکر دیگر نیز دفاع می کند و اگر آزادی بیان و تفکر از هر نوع را برای افراد جامعه تضمین می نماید، همچنان برنگرش و رفتار مذهبی افراد مذهبی نیز محدودیتی قائل نیست. بنابراین باید همه ایرانیان خارج از تفکر سیاسی و گروهی در یک همبستگی، از طریق فشارهای بین المللی حکومت را وادار کنند تا ضمن جلوگیری از اعدامها، به آزادی زندانیان سیاسی مجبور گشته و از محدودیتهای سیاسی و مدنی بکاهد، که این امر مقدمه سرنگونی نظام ولی فقیه خواهد بود.

//zarezadeh.blogspot.com

//www.iranpressnews.com/source/116218.htm

 A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.

گلشيفته فراهانی يا خود شيفته خراسانی, مساله ما کدام است؟

مهران رفيعی

چند روزی است که انتشار عکسی نيم برهنه بر روی جلد يکی از مجلات
فرانسوی غوغايی براه انداخته است, کشدار, جدال انگيز و آزار دهنده, براستی
چرا؟

مگر چنين موردی بی سابقه بوده است؟ پس محتوای اين همه فيلم و کتاب و مجله های ِ پر فروش ِ کنار خيا بانی چيست؟

آيا مبانی اخلاقی جامعه با انتشار اين عکس به خطر افتاده است؟ اگر چنين
است پس چرا مبانی نجابت و اخلاق از حضور هزاران تن فروش در خيابانهای داخل
و خارج کشور فرو نمی ريزند ؟

آيا گلشيفته فراهانی برای کسب درآمد و يا شهرت دست به چنين کاری زده
است؟ فرضا که جنين باشد, دانستن اين نکته چه کمکی به من و تو و مردم ما
ميکند؟

پس بهتر است که گلشيفته و انگيزه هايش را به حال خود بگذاريم و به سراغ
آن خود شيفته ای برويم که با سرنوشت ملت مان بازی ميکند. آن خودمحوری که
سليقه شخصی خود را بر آرای ملتی ترجيح ميدهد.

بر کارها و رفتار رهبری نظر کنيم که برفرزانگی خود می بالد ولی سخت ترين شرايط را بر مردم خود تحميل ميکند.

بر خيره سری بنگريم که خود را سکاندار کشتی نجات می خواند در حالی
کمترين مهارتی در آن کار ندارد و قومی را به ورطه مرگ نزديک کرده است.

بياد اسيران بيگناهی باشيم که دردناک ترين لحظات را ميگذرانند و هر لحظه ناقوس مرگ بر درب سلول شان ميکوبد.

گيرم که انگيزه گلشيفته شيطانی باشد, آتنش آن گناه هرگز دامن من و تو
را نخواهد گرفت, اما خود شيفتگی آن ديگری ديری است که خرمن های ملت مان را
به آتش کشانده است.

برهنگی گلشيفته نه ارزاق کسی را گران ميکند و نه پناهجويی را طعمه
امواج شرق جاوه ميسازد اما درندگی خود شيفته خونهای بسياری را بر زمين جاری
کرده و خانمان های بيشماری را برباد داده است.

براستی چنين نيست؟

Rather than only considering breaking taboos

i am also interested in accomplishments by iranian women. in iran, women are faced by many restrictions in sports but for those living in diaspora, i am looking forward to more accomplishments by iranian women in sports.

Siavash...