Farsinameh

Q - you are at again.

I probably would have believed your analysis, had myself not lived in Iran and as Jew, tasted that dispeakable Islamic treatment.

Always  we had to remember our "place" among the Mosalmunia. Dare to complain about anything wrong done to us. 

Mister, you can take your heart bleeding mantra and present it to others - not me. 

I have lived long enough and seen enough of that Islamic "benevolence" toward their minorities.

Compare to other minorities throughout the Arab-Islamic countries, Arab_Israeli are living in Palaces of human rights

There are Sunni Islamo Fascist

And there are Shia Islamo Fascist. Both must be destroyed in order to achieve peace in the ME. Israel will help us destroy Shia Islamo Fascist and that is why we see the anti Israeli propaganda by IRI supporters herein.

The Mullahs are pooping in their chadors knowing what is coming to them at the hand of those who love freedom and those who are willing to die and fight for freedom. Israelis have learned that freedom does not come at a free price. The Iranian nation will soon also learn the same and will fight to rid itself of Shia Islamo Fascist.

Good excuses Mazloom,

first of all, do you realize that even your own statistics make Arabs underrepresented in Israeli leadership. Second, I'm not sure why you now have to disagree with Ehud Olmert on this issue. Honestly, wouldn't that make you an fringe extremist if you think you know better than the prime minister?

Israeli Arabs have it somewhat better off than their brethren in West Bank who are occupied, bombed, and have no rights to their own land, but they are still second class citizens. They can't get gun permits, they can't get free land in West Bank, they are not allowed to own any of the (stolen) Jewish National Fund lands which are given away to foreign immigrants. They are not allowed to have their cousins and families immigrate to Israel, when any Jew can come in no questions asked. Dispite all the laws (which even IRI has them), this is the reality for Israeli Arabs:

a 2006 poll commissioned by the Arab advocacy group, The Center Against Racism, showed unexpectedly negative attitudes towards Arabs, based on questions asked to 500 Jewish residents of Israel representing all levels of Jewish society. The poll found that: 63% of Jews believe Arabs are a security threat; 68% of Jews would refuse to live in the same building as an Arab; 34% of Jews believe that Arab culture is inferior to Israeli culture. Additionally, support for segregation between Jewish and Arab citizens was found to be higher among Jews of Middle Eastern origin than those of European origin.[193] A more recent poll by the Center Against Racism (2008) found a worsening of Jewish citizens' perceptions of their Arab counterparts:
75% would not agree to live in a building with Arab residents.
More than 60% wouldn't accept any Arab visitors at their homes.
About 40% believed that Arabs should be stripped of the right to vote.
More than 50% agree that the State should encourage immigration of Arab citizens to other countries
More than 59% think that the culture of Arabs is a primitive culture.
When asked "What do you feel when you hear people speaking Arabic?" 31% said they feel hate and 50% said they feel fear, with only 19% stating positive or neutral feelings.[194]

//www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?ite...

This is the racist culture you say they "refuse" to integrate in?

How low you have sunk, my friend.

I wonder if this is the reason why jews have been suppressed

Look at what they're doing to the people of the world when they get in the position of power. Taking other peoples' land and property. Conspiring to control the political process of Europeans and U.S. Creating chaos, war and destruction all around them. What goes around, comes around or as Americans say their rooster will come home too.

Israeli are worse than Nazis. Why? look at what they are doing

to children of Gaza. More than 58% of Gaza's population are children who live without food due to fascist blockade of food, fuel and medicine by zionist jews of Israel. Israelies are Hitler's best students. They don't let any reporter to go inside either. Don't ask why people hate Israel and her backers, it's obvious.

Sage Zard Baradreh Shoghaleh

Seeing this comments proves to me once again that IRI and Israel are twin Evil brothers. Like that Indian bastard khomeini who used the war to legitimize his regime's atrocities, now the Israelis have no better freind than the Monkey Ahmadinejad to ligitimize theirs. Any critcisim of Israel will be diverted to: "oh, oh look how the islamist are bad and killers. So don't talk about Israel" The fact that Hezbollahis are evil does not automatically make make Israel innocent. All you pro-Israelis are doing is poiting out that Hezbollah and Hamas  are savages. Well, of course they are. That does not legitimize Israel's atrocities. Simply put; Israel sees its survival on the elimination of Arabs. That is just wrong. You can't force yourself on a group of people and just wish them to vanish. It does not work that way. They tend to resist your wish.  

And by the way Mr. Mazloom, your rationale reminds me of the same logic and excuses that the white man used when they slaughtered the American Indians.   

Please don’t take readers

Please don’t take readers of Iranian.com as gullible fools. Your attempt at distortion and revisionism have failed in the past and will continue to fail in the future.

What exactly is your agenda to keep providing your readers with the point of view of the Islamic Republic hardliners?

Do you really think the ME will be a better place if it was run by the incompetent Mullahs in Iran?? Will anyone in their right mind would allow that to happen?

Please provide answers to Bijan's questions!!!

Q - you are at it again.

zion wrote:

Arab citizens are equal in Israel with Jews and other citizens of the country before the law. There are Arab soldiers in Israeli army, and
Druz.

This is a valid & true statement. Which part of it don't you undestand?

Then you wrote:

Alluding to the Israeli claims:

- "We built this land".

Even the Arabs themselves admit, it is true.compare the region before 1948 & today.

- "We bought this land".

It is also true statement. Jews bought 7% of the land

- "We have Right of conquest".

And the Arabs & Muslims say the same. Check the history of Islam between the 7th-8th centuries.

- "We're a civilizing influence in the region".

Their actions speak louder then words.

- "We're God's chosen people".

And Muslim say the same thing about their place

- "This land was given to us by God".

Arab say. This land was given to us by Alla and will remain Islamic land.

Mr. Q

Why do you keep on dodging my point about the “reality”. You keep on going behind the podium and making the same speech over and over like a broken record (as zion said).

Are you suggesting the state of Israel should be dismantled and the rule of government turned over to Hezbollah and Hamas and send all those Immigrant jews back to where they came from? Is that what you are advocating? You want another IRI proxy in the Middle East? Are you for real?

If that’s not your point, why don’t you acknowledge the fact that Israel exists as a democratic state and has the right to defend its existence and its citizens before starting any criticism of its policies and your dislike or disgust of the way they protect and defend themselves.

Q, as I posted in another blog a while back, //iranian.com/main/blog/bijan-m/it-puzzles-me

you have never met me or know me in person (see the post I ask you not patronize me).

 Please get your head out of those books that force the blinder on you and start observing and getting a sense of the reality

Do you mean Palestine?

Israel? You mean Palestine, and they will survive. Zionazis got many things in store for themselves, thanks to their stupidity

Did I miss IRI grade 5 history books

""The nation of Israel wants to survive, prosper and grow; and to that end, is prepared to sabotage, attack and demolish its enemies"".

Genious ! , Did he just figured that all , all on his own or was there a research team involved . that statement holds true for any nation . Distortionist historian turned political strategist .

."" Unfortunately, as Israel has been created over the pain and suffering of Muslim Arabs""

This is what happens when one chews on too much ahmadinejad TV. One becomes obcessed with Arab pain . I have more pains to distribute  for pain seekers , closer to home . With that logic I,ll help research his next piece on pains suffered by Iranians losing ,Azerbaijan, Turkamanestan, Armenia, ouzbakestan, Caucuses to Russia , half afghanistan to british , western Iraq to Ottomans...& our heritage to Arab Shaikhs.........Go get all those back MR Don Quixote..  btw, don,t forget to write about the adventures on iranian.com. 

Broken Record

Yes you are the poor innocent victim of organized attack. :-) People are being dispatched to silence you. That is because you are so important Q. Dream on. lol.
A broken record that just keeps revolving.

Cognotive dissonance

I think this comment by "Fereshteh" (which I'm sure is another fake name) is very instructive:

Q, this Israeli issue is a distraction. Spare us

distraction from what? The topic of this blog is "Israel wants to survive", or did he not bother reading the blog at all?

This is a common pattern. I don't know if you are right, AAA, about this being a result of documented organized propaganda from GIYUS, but one thing is clear: "Fereshteh" was dispatched only to verbally silence and intimidate people who are interested in having a discussion. Fanatics are always like this. They can't stand anyone shining a light on their own roach infested kitchens, so they attack viciously with whatever excuse they can come up with.

In fact, this entire blog is a good case study of fanaticism. Just look for yourself. Here we clearly see who starts the attacks, the name calling, the devaluation of fellow man, the angry rejection of entire peoples voices and beings... the real distractions. Others disingenuously ask you "WHY"? Why do you dare even talking about this? Don't you know criticism of Israel is off limits??? They hope that once the discussion descends down to this level, the real issue is no longer in the limelight. That's what they wanted all along.

The arguments (when there are any coherent ones) are so blatantly biased that I'm not sure it's actually helping their side. This could explain why they don't even make them anymore and instead just attack the messenger. I wanted to respond to their talking points, but they have hardly presented any facts against anything I have said!

Unlike what my dear friend Bijan with a colorful past who does not remember meeting me in LA, claims, I'm not copying or "pasting" anything from anyone. These are my own thoughts as always. Perhaps he can show me what I'm copying and from where? He doesn't have the answer.

I'm glad to see that not all people are falling for it. So, to bring the discussion back to what it was originally before the sudden influx of the self-appointed vigilantes, I will repeat the point of comparison that I made to apartheid South Africa.

In both cases a set of extremists justified discrimination based on these :

- "We built this land"
- "We bought this land"
- "We have Right of conquest"
- "We're a civilizing influence in the region"
- "We're God's chosen people"
- "This land was given to us by God"

this is an undeniable similarity from two European-based populations justifying their iron-fisted rule over the local natives. Similarity in occupation is clear. Therefore, similarity in solution is viable. In my first post I argued for Israeli leaders to take similar steps that lead to peaceful road to reconciliation in SA. I hope those who are reading for reasons other than hate and character assassination, can give it some thought.

Good day to all.

Arash

As Bijan puts it; what are you trying to achieve or what's your point with this blog?????
And off course I have to agree with Fereshteh; At least the Israeli government treat their own citizens like human beings. And every one enjoy their rights...What has the Shia Mullah done for it's citizens except suppressing their people and forcing their belief on others....I would love to hear your answer....

Both Sides of the Story

Arash, thanks for your efforts in presenting both sides of the story.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gc5W47zaAA

Avraham and Ishmael would both be pleased. See Genesis 17:20-23:

//www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/8212...

here they come

Here come the Hasbara cyberwarriors of GIYUS.ORG

//www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3281619,...
//www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle...

What is the point?

Mr. Monzavi-kia, what is the point of your blog? Is it just to state a (or your) historical perspective about a subject that extremely emotional and passionately contested?. I didn’t see any expression of your opinion as how to address the issue.

Are you just trying to start the same nonsensical debate that has been discussed on this site for as long as I can remember? Giving a chance to the likes of Q and Jaleho to cut and paste the same biased, prejudiced and one sided arguments over and over again?.

What is wrong with starting a debate on the premise of “reality”. And, that reality is the existence of Israel as a democratic Jewish state. In my opinion it is a total waste of energy that will bear no resolution to argue over how Israel came to existence. Once we acknowledge this reality which carries with it the right to defend existence,  it will be a lot more fruitful and productive to debate the policies of the Israeli government, the borders, the Palestinian state, the fate of refugees, etc..etc..

If the point of your blog was to create a high traffic and “most discussed” title, you will succeed.

Arash Monzavi-Kia - Thanks for the input

As an  Israeli, let me correct few of your entries.

you wrote:

The creation of Israel has been a negative side effect of WWII, when
masses of the tortured and persecuted European Jews sought refuge in
their legendary utopia.

Perhaps you are oblivious that, at the same time over 1.2M Jews who lived throughout the Arab Islamic countries, they also were suffering (mostly emotional and spiritual) by the hand of local Arabs & Muslims.

Case in point. As I said in 1948 there were over 1.2M Jews, and untold millions of Christians living throughout the region.

By 1960, 99% of those  Jews were forced out of their homes in Baghdad, Tehran, Kashan, Mashahad, Cairo, Damescus, and elsewhere.

Today there are only few hundred thousand Christians left in the  region. All were also forced out of their homes - including in Beth Lehem  itself for god sake. So much for that bellihood  Islamic tolerance

you wrote:

The state of Israel has been at war with its neighbors since inception.
That animosity has turned into a septic wound and source of grief for
the displaced Palestinians. Most of the Islamic world feels empathy
with their fellow brethrens and share their pain of subjugation.
Moreover, the recurring humiliating defeats of Arab nations have
progressively radicalized them and resulted in the rise of leftist
nationalism (Egypt, Syria), militaristic regimes (Iraq, Libya) and
Islamist strongholds (Iran, Lebanon), who have replaced most of the
original moderate monarchies of the Middle East.

Speaking of "forced" and "subjugations". Have you reviewed how Islam was forced upon the innocent Iranians, Iraqis, and other tribes in the region..

in 630ACE there were hundreds of different ethnic groups, whom had living in the region for thousands of years. Each with its own distinctive language, heritage, pride and identity.  (look how Persia was then). By 700ACE all were wiped out by those barbaric and blood thirsty Bedouins who came from the deserts of Arabia. People's properties were looted, their wives raped, and forced to believe to an illiterate man as messenger of God. Worse, their respective histories language and rich cultural all were replaced by a new religion which they neither asked for, nor wanted.

So before one  throws mud on others, look at his/her own backyard first.

Now. In regard to "lost of land".

First, as tragic  as it is, those Pals DID NOT legally owned the land. In fact as far back as 1900, there were 3 entities, none of which the pals who legally owned the land.

1. The Ottoman Empire

2. Wealthy Arab landowners (Effendi) who were leasing the land to these so-called Palestinian.

3. 7% of the land  was purchased by the Jews and legally was owned by them.

If we examine the history of the world just for past 500 years, you we realized that more then 70% of the land mass on this earth, its original  inhabitance no longer own, or even inhabit  their land. (Australia, entire American continents. Part of Europe and the Caribbeans. So what makes the pals who's leaders made the wrong choice any different then others.

In regard to the radicalization of the Arab world. As zion had aptly pointed  out. The conflict between Israel and its Arab neighbors is not about land, rather about a state of mind.  It is the religious elements  on the Arab world which still has its head stuck in the sand  of  human logic  and reality. Jews must live under Islamic  rule to live in peace. That is fine and dandy if these backwards were not behind the curve of human development for  past 900years.

Same old, same old

Arab citizens are equal in Israel with Jews and other citizens of the country before the law. There are Arab soldiers in Israeli army, and Druz. And for the hundredth time Q, granting or not granting citizenship to those who are not born in a country has nothing to do with the equal rights of its citizens or with Apartheid. Not in the real world anyway. In your Islamist mind many things might be happening, but the real world is a different issue.

Arash, you have raised no issue to be discussed. There are just your usual half baked fallacies and made up history notes. This is the best you get in response. Be grateful for even this much.

Built on the suffering of Palestinians? It was also built on the ashes of millions of Jews, and the suffering of millions of others in Europe and in the land of Israel and the broader Middle East, by anti-semites of both region. Birth of nation states is never easy. To imply that palestinians specifically were particularly and deliberately "victimized" for it, is rubbish ideological hate-mongering. Pure and simple.

Thanks Fereshteh,
You said it.

Q

You were doing better at trying to convince us that the IRI, the ultimate apartheid regime and discriminator, belongs to the G20.

Q, this Israeli issue is a distraction. Spare us. Iranians do not by this IRI propaganda garbage that you list here. I wish the IRI thugs treated their CITIZENS like the Israelis treat theirs. Arab Israeli CITIZENS, become judges in the Supreme Court of Israel, have mulitple seats in the government, are professors in Israeli Universities... How many Bahis's, Baluchis, Kurds, Sunnis and non believers in the Velayateh Fagih hold similar positions in the IRI? Zero, Sefre, Zilch NADA!

Freedom for Iranians that are being raped by your IRI thugs first! Than we worry about others!

If Israelis want

Iran can help them get rid of Zions

one correction

"as Israel has been created over the pain and suffering of Muslim Arabs"

Actually the pain and suffering equally affected Christian Arabs too. A sizable proportion of the displaced and dispossessed Palestinians were/are Christians. A notable one is the late Edward Said. A less known one is Sirhan Sirhan the assassin of Robert Kennedy.

Zion: stop personal attacks and bullying

Instead of personal attacks and bullying language (silly, nonsense, fallacy, hallucinations, crap, idiot, get a life) use your time and others' to discuss issues. Your behavior is a despicable example of self-righteous and hate-filled outrage! 

Arash M-K

Zion, I know truth hurts,

just read the excuses that I listed below. All are repeated by Zionist settlers.

Of course there is apartheid in Israel and in the West Bank. Do Arab "citizens" of Israel also get free land and protection if they just go to West Bank and claim it? Are they also allowed to carry Uzis in grocery stores in broad day light? Are their cousins in foreign countries given free citizenship and free trips?

Arabs have long suffered discrimination in Israel. Even most Zionist can admit to this much. But not the brainwashed ones!

Don't make me laugh Zion, give it up. No one buys it anymore. No one!

[Yawn]

Again repeating the kind of crap your mullahs utter for Western useful idiot audience, Q?

There is no such similarity. There is no apartheid law in Israel, none. The doors of education, power and economy are open to all, Jews and Arabs alike. The apartheid mentality is on the Arab/muslim side who wants infidel Jews to be always inferior to Islamic rule, and disobedient Jews thrown to see, man , woman and child.
Israel is the thousand year old land of Jews and will always remain their only motherland. Jews are no white colonialists, they are an oppressed people returning to their origin and motherland.

Preach your words to your muslim brothers. They are the ones who need understanding it.
And Get a life Q. Get a life.

This problem can be solved if Israelis have the courage

This exact problem was finally solved in South Africa peacefully, although much blood had been shed for it over time. That's the best example that is available.

In South Africa, the ruling party did something courageous, it admitted, to being illegitimate. This was no small thing, for centuries the Euro-American White Supremacist ideology considered southern tip of Africa "White Land" (their own term) to which European transplants had a "right". Supremacist Afrikaaner literature was full of justifications and excuses which almost completely mirror the Israeli ones:

- "We built this land"
- "We bought this land"
- "We have Right of conquest"
- "We're a civilizing influence in the region"
- "We're God's chosen people"
- "This land was given to us by God"

As long as the ruling government was supporting this nonsense, there could not be any chance for peace. Only after the DeKlerk and the ruling elite admitted to being illegitimate and negotiated a true bargain, did they have any breakthroughs.

Recall that many radical activists in South Africa even advocated throwing out the European settlers, but they were largely pacified by this gesture.

Truth and reconciliation commissions went very very far to address grievances on all sides in a peaceful and constructive manner.

That's what we need in Israel and it can be brought about from the top of the Israeli elite... if they have the courage.

Interesting how Zion and Zinosits Claim History is Revised

We are watching Palestinians getting killed at the hand of Israelis every day, with our own eyes, and Zion and his fanatic extremists Zionists somehow claim that the history has been distorted? !

Israel will not survive

It's impossible. But dreaming is allowed!

to: Zion

I'm no historian, but it does not take a historian to realize that every time a people move to another peoples' land and take their property by force, it causes "pain and suffering". If Budhists from Mongolia move to current day Israel and take their land by force, guess what, it would cause "pain and suffering" for the Jews living there today.

I'm no Pan-Arabist and, frankly, I get pissed off at Iran always sticking it's nose in Palestinian issues, but lets get real Zion, we can't lie about what happended either.

Another silly piece of hsitorical revisionism

Israel has been created over the pain and suffering of Muslim Arabs...Jewish migration started during and after WWI...the aggressive tactics of the Jewish newcomers who had been hardened by the WWII tragedies quickly antagonized the indigenous Arab population...As long as both[!] sides are fully entrenched in their antagonistic positions, without the ability to see and feel the pains of the other side...this major blunder of colonial era...Israelis view the Arab and Muslims as their archenemies... [yawn]

What's the matter with you and your urge to revise historical facts with nonsense? How do you manage to cram so much historical fallacy and fabricated unsubstantiated claims? Perhaps you should stick to your hallucinations of ancient times, how about that?