HAFEZ: Into Little Boys!

Anonymous Observer
by Anonymous Observer
20-Aug-2012
 

I always knew that the sheikhak Hafez was into little boys. Here’s the best confirmation. It’s from this site. Here, judge for yourselves. It’s his Gazal No. 10 from his Divan.

His mop of hair tangled, sweating, laughing and drunk, Shirt torn, singing poems, flask in hand,

His eyes spoiling for a fight, his lips mouthing “Alas!”

Last night at midnight he came and sat by my pillow.

He bent his head to my ear and said, sadly,

“O, my ancient lover, are you sleeping?” The seeker to whom they give such a cup at dawn

Is an infidel to love if he will not worship the wine.

O hermit, go and do not quibble with those who drink the dregs,

For on the eve of creation this was all they gave to us.

What he poured in our cup we drank,

Whether the mead of Heaven, or the wine of drunkenness.

The cup’s smile and the wine boy’s knotted curl

Have broken many vows of chastity, like that of Hafiz.

Share/Save/Bookmark

Recently by Anonymous ObserverCommentsDate
The 1979 Devolution Was The Perfect Fit For Iranians
72
Nov 24, 2012
Bring Dr. Mohandes & Vildemose Back!!!
31
Nov 08, 2012
Iranian.com, David Duke or "Storm Front?"
66
Oct 12, 2012
more from Anonymous Observer
 
Frashogar

Dr Mohandes

by Frashogar on

In Israel where you live the majority consensus about homosexuals and the homosexual rights issue is exactly as I have articulated it below as well.


anglophile

Let's see how closed a society is Britain compared to the US?

by anglophile on

Is electing a female prime minister (Margaret Thacher) more than thirty years ago  in a male dominated political society an evidence of closed society? How many muslims are there in th US cabinet. Baroness Warsi, is not only a muslim but also a female minister and a chairperson of the conservative paty. How many openly gay and lesbian ministers, top ranking army and police officers can be named in America? How many muslims in the same position? LGBT activities were made legal in Britain since 1967. In the US: 2003. Lastly, but not finally, is communism and communistic activities an immigration issue or an emploment isuse in Britain? NO! I leave it to my Iranian-American cousins to answer the US version of this question.

 

 


Dr. Mohandes

Another conspiracy theory???? Gays on the hook!

by Dr. Mohandes on

AO jan

First off let me congratulate you for yet another observant and "doshman kosh" blog. Very impressive.

Farshogar khan

This is one of the most hilarious explanations that i have heard to demean and dengirate homosexuals. This one really takes the cake or even zoolbia for that matter. So i guess, when the push comes to shove and we really really start hating these "homo" people, we go out of our way and blame that one on Anglosaxons for being this or doing that to "Impose" on us. HA! that is amusing.

FYI, no one is pushing or promoting anything which is related to the issue of homosexuality and usually, people who possess some degree of decency do not have a bone to pick with them. Religious people...well...they are a separate bunch...They will tell you pretty much anything you want them to tell you.

You have to be absoultely out of your mind to seriously think that the western government care little or not at all about the gay rights and v iew their lifestyle as a violation of "traditional" whatever that we happen to hold dear? or even an abomination.

Who has said by the way, the certain guidlines of what is Traditional and why it is  so precious and therefore worth preserving to the last bit? Who has inherited the right to set such trends anywhere in the world? Who is to say who is right or wrong in what values they set for others in the society?Don't yo u think that with our ever-changing world around us and with all the flexibilty that we see, we need to loosen up and adjust accordingly and accept certain things and more importantly Respect that which we can not accept, anyway?

It is a good thing that you are witnessing the mess we have going on iran and all that crap about the traditional and all the crap it has thrown our way and yet you stick to those antiquated and outdated and good -for- pig sty/chale mostarah notions of stupid tradition and ever so steadfastly.

 

Really amused me with that bit about South and central american countries "valuing" the family and moral tradition. Half of those nations are run by pure fascists and brutal tyrants. Of course they see things in the same light as other ruthless governments around the world. 

 


Frashogar

AO

by Frashogar on

Betrayed or not, Anglosaxon societies are imposing - yes, imposing! - this homosexuality issue on the whole world, and frankly there are many who are sick and tired of it. Personally I believe the aggressive promotion of the homosexual rights issue in the West is a complete trojan horse by cynical Western capitalists to corrupt traditional cultures and destroy the traditional family and traditional morality everywhere in order to open markets for themselves (while  really not giving two hoots about gays as persons or their rights). The Russians, most Eastern Europeans, Asia and much of Latin and South America who still see value in the traditional family and traditional morality see things exactly in the same light.

Now you brought up this whole paedophilia issue vis-a-vis Hafiz. Obviously it would appear you are somewhat ambivalent about the whole issue yourself. But why are you using such issues as crutches to denigrate your own culture and its literatry figures, presuming you even are an Iranian?

Finally you may believe Britian is an open society but I assure you it is not. The British, and specifically the English, don't know what openness means and Britian is one of the most closed socieities there are. Don't confuse your experience of America with Britian. These are two different societies.


IranFirst

Allah promises fresh youths to Muslim men. Quran 76:19

by IranFirst on

Perverts will be happy in Arab Islam's paradise, quaran promises .

READ 76:19

 

Yusuf Ali

Round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness)


default

*

by Shepesh on

*


Demo

----

by Demo on

------


Albaloo

Anonymous Observer

by Albaloo on

It just shows how out of touch you are with the sufi poetry. That's all.


anglophile

.

by anglophile on

 


anglophile

مقعد انگلیسی‌

anglophile


نمیدونم چرا بعضی‌ از دوستان در میان یک بحث جدی در باره حافظ بند کردند به مقعد انگلیسا؟ یعنی‌ میفرمأیید انگلیسا از طریق مقعد‌شان سیاست ایران را کنترل میکردند؟ اگر مقعد یک انگلیسی‌ بتواند  وزیر و وکیل عوض کند، ببخشیدا ولی‌ بقول میرزاده عشقی‌: بعد از این بر وطن و بوم و برش باید رید.

 


Anonymous Observer

TS-9-e Gerami

by Anonymous Observer on

No offense to my observant friend Demo, but my favorite verse of the Quran is the "ghelmaan" one, where it talks about the faithful being rewarded with "ghelman" (pre-pubescent boys) who will cricle around them and attend to their every need.  I don;t have the verse number (and won't have it for a couple of weeks for reasons that I don't feel like discussing), but I will post it at some point upon request.


Anonymous Observer

Good one Zendanian

by Anonymous Observer on

I like certain parts of your comment here.  In particular these parts:

'The fact that Iranians of today could so easily relate to sentiments, language and "structure of feelings" of seven centuries ago, in and of itself is not necessarily a positive attribute.

More or less this is an evaluation on our attachment to pre-modern politics and letters, and how hard it has been for modern politics and letters to take roots in Iran.

To make an incredibly long story short, before the advent of Modern Iranian poetry and arts, we had never had an earthly, this worldly narrative, depiction or representation of everyday, ordinary love, sexual relationship or for that matter WOMEN in our entire literature.

Perhaps our continued fascination and attraction to Hafez is more of a statement on our collective culrural stagnation and backwardness, than his. For he was truly way ahead of his times, whereas we seem to have been ever stuck in ours, at least for the past century or so. Cheers" 

Very true.  And more so post 1979 devolution.  A nation that defeated itself by bringing a brutal, medieval theocracy into power.  Clinging on to some antiqauted notion of morality in order to distance itself from its own acts.  Backwardness indeed  


Anonymous Observer

HFB & Frashogar

by Anonymous Observer on

HFB: I understand that you have a vested interest in exalting Hafez, with your classes and all, but if you cannot understand the difference between criticism and "hate," then there's nothing that I have (or can) say to you.  

Frashogar: It's interesting that you keep bringing up pedophilia and homosexuality in the UK.  But you should know that your own comments betray what you try to convey.  Because you should realize that the reason why we know so much about those aspects of British culture is because they freely discuss the issue.  Unlike us, where we sweep what we all know is there under the rug and pretend to have the moral high ground.  And that's why they have a democracy and we are being ruled for the past three decades by the only theocracy on the planet.  


Anonymous Observer

Fesenjoon and COP

by Anonymous Observer on

Fesenjoon: Dude, someone needs to talk about the subject.  Seriously, it's very important.  BTW, have you noticed that a certain individual is commenting multiple times on my blog--which I absolutely welcome regardless of her views.  Now, when you and I did the same thing on her blog, we were called "harassers."  A certain "professor" is still talking about it.

COP bro: wink, wink... :-) 


Frashogar

Guardian.UK

by Frashogar on

Has lost all credibility as have most of the journalists who write for it. What's gone wrong at the Guardian? In any case who cares what Ahmadinejad thinks!?

But please do share your views on Hafiz, dear Truthseeker9.


Truthseeker9

Demo jaan

by Truthseeker9 on

No problem, no offence taken. I had no intention to misquote as there was link to the full quote and context in article. But I seriously hope a Muslim scholar updates the Quran, like the Christians created the New Testament. As times go on, a fresh approach to all subjects are needed. 

This article is for our friends who are deflecting and using denial as a form of self preservation. I have no more to say on this blog about Hafez.   

'No homosexuality here'

 


Demo

Dear Truthseeker9

by Demo on

 

My comment was only & only in regard to the Quranic verses included in your notes with the disapproval of poets' works & had nothing to do with the contents of your provided link as there was no time to examine them throughly. To HATE the book is one thing but to misquote it is something else. The moral laws of any known religion do not promote any HATRED toward the law breakers but only punish them if they are caught violating those codes of conduct. People are allowed to question those codes at any time with total freedom of concience & through communications & discussions. Quran promotes such freedoms as it referes to individual thinking more than 900 times throughout its about 6000 verses. If Islamic Theocrats have any problem with such it is theirs & not this commentator's problem. At any even sorry if caused any offence with my remarks. May GOD bless us all. Amen. 


Frashogar

Pederasty in 19th century England

by Frashogar on

 //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty

In England, public boarding schools, with its homosocial environment, often encouraged an homoerotic
atmosphere, due to the emphasis on the Classics, and homosexual
relations were formed and quietly accepted, both between the older and
younger boys and even between the teachers and the boys. However, there
had been some scandals around such relationships. In the mid-19th
century, William Johnson Cory,
a renowned master at Eton from 1845 until his forced resignation in
1872, evolved a style of pedagogic pederasty which influenced a number
of his pupils. His Ionica, a work of poetry reflecting his pederastic sensibilities, was read in intellectual circles and “made a stir” at Oxford in 1859. Oscar Browning,
another Eton master and former student of Cory, followed in his tutor’s
footsteps, only to be likewise dismissed in 1875. Both are thought to
have influenced Oxford don Walter Pater, whose aesthetics promoted pederasty as the truest expression of classical culture.

Also in 19th-century England, pederasty was a theme in the work of several writers known as the "Uranian poets". Although most of the writers of Uranian poetry and prose are today considered minor literary figures at best, the prominent Uranian representatives --- Walter Pater, Gerard Manley Hopkins, and Oscar Wilde
-- are figures of worldwide renown. Hopkins and Wilde were both deeply
influenced by Pater's work. Wilde wrote of pederastic and homoerotic
culture—though not in the "elevated" pederastic sense that it held for
Pater and Hopkins -- in a number of works.
In the case of Hopkins, "Hopkins often was, it must be admitted,
strikingly Ruskinian in his love of Aristotelian particulars and their
arrangements; however, it was at the foot of Pater -- the foremost
Victorian unifier of ‘eros, pedagogy, and aesthetics’ -- that Hopkins
would ever remain." Another notable late 19th-century writer on pederasty was John Addington Symonds, whose essays A Problem in Greek Ethics and A Problem in Modern Ethics were among the first ever defenses of homosexuality in the English language.


Soosan Khanoom

Baba u guys are still arguing here? AO was just bored and

by Soosan Khanoom on

the idea  hit him like a watermelon...

I wanted to say an apple but then AO is no Mewton. 

LOL 


Zendanian

700 years of stagnation and non-progress, or "survival!"

by Zendanian on

The fact that Iranians of today could so easily relate to sentiments, language and "structure of feelings" of seven centuries ago, in and of itself is not necessarily a positive attribute.

This is not so much a judgment on Hafez, or his unparalleled mastery of the language, his unmatched Humanism, or his uncomrpomising free spirit.

More or less this is an evaluation on our attachment to pre-modern politics and letters, and how hard it has been for modern politics and letters to take roots in Iran.

To make an incredibly long story short, before the advent of Modern Iranian poetry and arts, we had never had an earthly, this worldly narrative, depiction or representation of everyday, ordinary love, sexual relationship or for that matter WOMEN in our entire literature.

Perhaps our continued fascination and attraction to Hafez is more of a statement on our collective culrural stagnation and backwardness, than his. For he was truly way ahead of his times, whereas we seem to have been ever stuck in ours, at least for the past century or so. Cheers  


Hafez for Beginners

surviving 700 years

by Hafez for Beginners on

Anonymous Observer:  A person who knows Hafez, wouldn't consider him a paedophile. And those who revered Hafez, from Goethe (Germany), Emerson (USA), Meher Baba and Deepak Chopra (India) to Namjoo (Iran) and beyond, would beg to differ. Because across centuries and cultures, these men knew their Hafez. My guess is that your exposure to him is minimal at best. And that fits with the very definition of prejudice - where we just throw mud and hope it would stick. It's really very ungallant. Not "javanmard" as we say in Persian.

My Advice:  My only advice continues to be to say  that if you have so much "hate" for the Middle East or for Hafez - then Hafez himself, from what I've understood from his great spiritual mind, would recommend you not drown yourself in  hate. Give your energy to a Blog subject you believe in. 

("He/She" question: A person who knows the above poem, is famililar with the repeated image of "Zolf"/hair  referenced in Hafez - and unless the men or boys had long, flowing hair you would get lost in, similar to the Persian women in miniatures,  these creatures are  far more likely women. And  although the poster found a "he" translation - many translations have this same poem translated as a "she." The choice of "He" is a reflection of the English translators own mind given that "he/she" being gender free in the Persian language.)

Anglophile: Thanks for the links with quotes on "Boys" - and most of them, from what I could fathom, are Hafez giving "Pand" ie. wisdom to the Boy. Asking him to listen to his father etc. 

Nabat: It's very cool to come and post Hafez' poems. Lovley. 

Hafez survived 700 years: of mud-slinging - surviving a Blog post? Please. Maybe someone could dig out a quote on how he deals with mud-slinging...


All-Iranians

Jenab-e Frashogar

by All-Iranians on

Thank you for your input; you got a very great observation.


Cost-of-Progress

Leve it to AO

by Cost-of-Progress on

to stir the pot with his controversial subjects......AO jaan, mage nemidoni maa irooni haa cheghadr too moode sherim....?

Pushing those buttons is his specialty...he he he


Frashogar

All-Iranians

by Frashogar on

I am not the first nor the last to observe the fact that male homosexuality is rampant in English upper-class culture. It is almost a given amongst the British upper classes that amongst males most have their first experiences with the same gender. This to some degree is even enshrined in the homoeroticism one finds expressed in the literature of the 17th-19th century. Despite those who wish to denigrate their own culture and literature, the same cannot be said about Iranian society and Persian literature.

 


Truthseeker9

Demo

by Truthseeker9 on

I have given the link to the full article, and it is from and "eminent" Islamic scholar. It is interesting that you have this to say, instead of acknowledging the HOMOPHOBIC verses and HATE spewed out by this interpretor. I couldn't care whether someone is homosexual or if Hafez took part in Bache Bazi of the times. But what I find irritating is the hypocrisy of those who say any questioning of poetry or verses of a Holy Book is HATE, when the ideology supported by individuals promotes HATE towards homosexuals. That is not all, apostasy (freedom of concience), freedom of speech (fatwas) and the list goes on. I am sorry that this may offend but the questions will not go away. Not on this site or elsewhere on the net as people find ways of communication and discussion.


Demo

بحثی نیست و همش یاددادن و یادگیری است!

Demo


نام عزراییل در قرآن نیست عزیز جان. اسراییل اسمی دیگر برای پیامبر خدا یعقوب است.بنی اسراییل هم قومی مُرده بود در بندگی فرعون. با پیامبری موسی و اطاعت از او زنده شد و جان دوباره گرفت. 


مآمور

دمو

مآمور


 من کاملأ منظور شما را فهمیدم!! تن نرم زبان فارسی تفاوتی بین اسرائیل و اعزرائیل نمیگذارد!!
هم اسرائیل هم اعزرائیل هر دو در قرآن مجید ذکر شده​​ اند!!اسرائیل اگر جان گیر نبود قرآن آن را که نوشتم در موردش نمیگفت!!
اگر از من کوچک میپرسید، با ابو جهل بحث کردن فایده​ای ندارد!!
سلام باشید

I wear an Omega watch


All-Iranians

Anglophile got it right

by All-Iranians on

And read more here:

Comment section
//iranian.com/main/blog/all-iranians-15
Please do not blame Iranians, Hafez, and the culture. Just blame the Brits and their agents in Iran!


anglophile

"پسران" حافظ

anglophile


چون سرکار خانم میرفندرسکی امر فرمودند که اگر جایی حافظ به صراحت از مردان جوان یاد کرده نشان دهید خواستم چند نمونه‌ای تقدیم دارم و باقی‌ را به قضاوت دوستان بگذارم. همانطور که قبلا گفتم اعتقاد من بر این است که آن جناب عاری از این‌گونه تعلقات بوده:

 

 ای نازنین پسر تو چه مذهب گرفته‌ای

کت خون ما حلالتر از شیر مادر است

***********************


 گر آن شیرین پسر خونم بریزد

دلا چون شیر مادر کن حلالش

***********************

 گوش کن پند ای پسر وز بهر دنیا غم مخور

گفتمت چون در حدیثی گر توانی داشت هوش

***********************

 چند به ناز پرورم مهر بتان سنگ دل

یاد پدر نمی‌کنند این پسران ناخلف

***********************

 پیران سخن ز تجربه گویند گفتمت

هان ای پسر که پیر شوی پند گوش کن

 ***********************

 دل بدان رود گرامی چه کنم گر ندهم

مادر دهر ندارد پسری بهتر از این

***********************

 به هوای لب شیرین پسران چند کنی

 جوهر روح به یاقوت مذاب آلوده

***********************

پدر تجربه ای دل تویی آخر ز چه روی

طمع مهر و وفا زین پسران می‌داری

***********************

عمر بگذشت به بی‌حاصلی و بوالهوسی

ای پسر جام می‌ام ده که به پیری برسی

***********************

دهقان سالخورده چه خوش گفت با پسر

کای نور چشم من بجز از کشته ندروی

***********************

در مکتب حقایق پیش ادیب عشق

هان ای پسر بکوش که روزی پدر شوی


Dainasur and amu maad agha

What a great discovery after almost 70 decades!?

by Dainasur and amu maad agha on

What a wast of time!!!