Current Events

So...

... the only thing they can grow in their lands that could make them survive is opium poppy.

?

So what?

Not so

Afghans have no access to water, we do.

What Would Iran Look Like Without Oil?

Look across the border at Afghanistan.

That's what Iran would look like. 

Hahaha!

Nice dodging Siavash! In your discussion with me, your argument was that since Mozaffareddin Shah signed that agreement, and since Mozaffareddin Shah was Mossadeq's uncle (was he?), then Mossadeq was pooh-pooh. Or maybe you wanted to get to that here too? Saying Mossadeq didn't oppose the agreement because it was his uncle who had signed the contract? C'mon, admit it... : )

The main point for Arj

" obviusly,(treaty).. it was signed between the governments of Iran and Great Britain. What is your point?! " Arj

Dear Arj,

NO,  the treaty was NOT sigened between the gov. of Iran and Great Britain. This is whole misunderstanding the Iran history.  It was signed by shah of Iran known as Muzaffar Al-din shah with William Knox D'Arcy in 1901. D'Arcy was not a gov. He was a guy like me and you. He made a furtune on gold in Austeralia prior to focus his attention on oil in Iran. D'Arcy never visited Iran, his employee by the name of George Renold was doing his work in Iran. According to agreement, He agreed to pay 20,000 Brits Pound to shah and 16% of future profits. 12 years later, means in 1913 the need for oil to power the ships for world war 1 broutht Churchil and Brits gov. to the picture. Brits gov. spent 2 million English Pound to buy 51% of the Persian Angelo shares in 1913.

No body put a gun on Muzzaffar Al din shah head to sign the treaty. He did it out of his greed for money. That is way far from colonization that we are hearing in Africa by Europeans. Iran has always been strong country, even under corrupted Qjar dynasty. By showing hostility toward Brits gov. the whole responsibility of opium addict shah will be dismissed. To dismiss shah as a responsible person and put the weight on Brits gov. and Brits people. This idea conceptualized in comic book of "Dai John Napolean" and gradually became part of Iranian folklore. All comments we read here shows clinchy fits and teeth toward Brits gov. No fist and teeth shows toward Muzzaffar Al din shah and corrupted Qjar dynasty. Hope you got my point.

I was wonding why Mossaddeq, the nationalish man, didn't protest?

What he was doing anyway, any idea? 

Sincerely,

Siavash

Siavash300

You still didn't say what your point is!

Thanks Parham, you got it right

"He means WHO and who (more or less)..." Parham

Right. That was the question.

No clues allowed!

Let the man answer for himself!!!

No, no, no

He means WHO and who (more or less)...

So?!

Albeit redundant, as per request by our friend Parahm, I bite; obviusly, it was signed between the governments of Iran and Great Britain. What is your point?!

Arj dear

Please answer that and you'll get to the depth of the man's argument! No, I mean, really! Wait & see...

Arj comment

"there was an official oil treaty between Great Britain and Iran during the first half of the 20th cientury under Angol-Iranian Oil Co." Arj

I was wondering who signed that treaty. Any idea?

Re

Dear Siavash, although Iran was not officially colonized, yet she and her natural resources were exploited by colonial powers. Presently, there are no deals between Iran and the U.s., raw or otherwise -- at least so far as the public knowledge goes! Whereas, there was an official oil treaty between Great Britain and Iran during the first half of the 20th cientury under Angol-Iranian Oil Co. That's a matter of fact as per the document in my previous post! I can't see how you can caompare that relationship to that of the present day U.S.-Iran!

About the second part of your comment, opposing foreign domination of our nation and opposing IRI are not mutually exclusive. Just because IRI takes anti-Western, pseudo-nationalistic postures, it does not mean we should bend over to the West or any other foreign power! Our national interests remain more or less the same with or without IRI!

Response

• I agree with everyone that taking hostages was a disaster. It was stupid; illegal; criminal and led to the war; loss of 8 billion dollars of Iranian money and loss of hundreds of thousands of lives. The "students" ranks barely above MEK. They should be tried and given the harshest possible sentences. I don't care if they are 90 years old when the regime changes. They should be stripped of all their belongings as damages and kicked to Holland for international trial.
• Iran will outlive the Mullahs. We may have some bumpy roads. I don't like IRI; I dispise it nor am I a fan of Islam. However we got to give credit to a nation that despite Islam; IRI and sanctions is able to advance. Become a player in Space technology; and have some of the top universities in the world. You got to separate Iran from IRI. Don't let your hatred of IRI make you hate Iran. Also don't fall for the Islamic BS.
• And even though I decide to drop this just one last comment on Native Americans. No one said they were perfect. Sure they had wars and cruelty. They may have had human sacriofces. But that does not mean uncivilized. I was just watching a movie about the "Trojan War" last night. The Greeks basis of Western civilization were chopping each other real good! 

Proof Iranians thrive in spite of oppression

All the advances that Ali (he's not actually a Supreme Leader he's just a man, well not much of one) mentions without specifics, are only proof that Iranians are a resilient and defiant people, and don't let oppression stop them.

It is not a testament to Islam that Iranians thrive, but to their Iranian-ness. Having weathered 2500 years of mostly brutal rule through empires of varied shape and color, do you think a momentary flash of Islam is going to get them down?

Ali, long after you are dead and buried and forgotten (which will be about a year tops), Iranians will still be here, thriving, and your brief experiment in witchcraft will be nothing but a barely mentioned national joke.

As long as you make the mistake of allowing in the internet, and satellite TV, combined with Iranian pride, Iranians will survive anything you want to throw at them and worse, will thrive.

You see, you lose every time when you open your mouth and try to say that you think you know something. The only thing you need to know is you are an obsolete, useless old man, with not one single contribution to this earth, and have only bested the devil in place of the real God, which you are too arrogant, too simple, and utterly too stupid to ever know.

I would sin everyday, just to be there in hell and see the look on your face, when you show up.

And have you heard of shoes? They are a great invention. They had them right around the 14th century too!

Agree Siavash

"Only Iranians were hurt by taking over U.S embassy or taking hostages. "

Hostage taking also brought us the eight years war .....  I said it before on this site and I say it again those who were in charge of that event should be held responsible.  The students did it with the full support of Hezbeh Todeh. They afterwards had mullas on the board as well . They have destroyed Iran and they have the blood of many Iranians on their hands especially those who died in the war ..  

And these morons still celebrate its anniversary.  

Misunderstanding

"America didn't tell the Mullah's to take over the US Embassy." Jahan Khalili

I never said that. I never said that America told mullahs to take over embassy. My comment was about the term that Arj was using as "colonial power". I was saying that word may suit for countries who were colonies. it doesn't suit for Iran.It hurts Iran rather than helping Iranians. I said Brits, American still enjoying their whisky and rock'n roll music as they were enjoying when shah was on power. Only Iranians were hurt by taking over U.S embassy or taking hostages. All these slogans of death to america or death to england didn't hurt those nations. It only hurt Iranians.  

Siavash300

Dude, I hate to disagree with you at this point, but America didn't tell the Mullah's to take over the US Embassy. That's bullshit.

The British didn't do it either; they haven't been a super power since they lost the British Empire - and that was a long time before the 1979 revolution. 

Thanks Arj. very informative links.

"when we decided to do away with that raw deal, they began to make life miserable for us" Arj

We can say the same thing for current situation in Iran that U.S trying to make life miserable for Iranians by imposing sanction since Iranians decided to do away with raw deal with U.S. Now, by your definition we have to appreciate mullahs who are standing against "colonial power". So where is the problem? What is bothering people here?

Now, when you pinpoint the western world as a "colonial power", Indirectly you are feeding and approving the current establishment of ruling mullahs. The result of this kind of thinking leading ruling mullahs to bring people on streets with slogan of death to America and death to England. Those colorful words or terms may be attractive for those nations with a long history of slaverly and those who were victim of colonization such as Surinam, Guiyana, or India, but it is NOT suitable for Iran. It hurst our people more than helping them. Like I said before, U.S and U.K still enjoying their life style as they were enjoying when shah was on power. Only Iranians were the ones who were hurt. Nothing happened to those so called..."colonial power". It all happened to our nation. Colonial power pursuaded mullahs took over U.S embassy. Took hostages. The hostages eventually got release but misery remained for Iranians for 32 years.

I Can See

... that no one in that room dares to disagree with Khamenei.

American Indians Never Harmed Anyone?

//www.amazon.com/Captured-Indians-Firsthand-A...

//www.amazon.com/Fate-Worse-Than-Death-Captivities/dp/0870044737/ref=pd_sim_b_6 

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_massacre

//www.virtualjamestown.org/phatmass.html

//wn.com/1704_Raid_on_Deerfield

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping 

You won't learn about these from the stupid amateurs at Iran's state television, who simply want to condemn America and have no interest in any impartial pursuit of knowlege.

American Indians Never Exploited Anyone?

//www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,163...

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_freedmen_controversy 

//www.cherokeebyblood.com/blackindians.htm 

Natives vs ethnics

Dear Siavash, not knowing is not a shame, yet not willing to know is! IMHO, we're all here to learn a thing or two from each other while exchanging our thoughts. I personally have learned a great deal since I started posting here! 

However, I checked the link you provided, and did not find it pertinent to the issue of the Native American cultures and civilizations. It indeed is about the Native Americans as a marginalized ethnic group that is nothing more than a parody of the past civilizations! The following links provide a more relevant view on the issue: //www.cumbavac.org/Aztecs_Incas_Maya.htm

And with regards to the other issue you brought up, I'd like to add that I never uttered "death to America" or "death to British" or any other nation. You might've confused me with someone else! Nonrtheless, I do believe that British were a colonial power who exploited our nation and our natural resources. They imposed an unfair and exploitative treaty on our nation by coersion and deceit, and when we decided to do away with that raw deal, they began to make life miserable for us. The following link provides a document about the British hostile attitude vis a vis our nation's unalienable right to self-governance and nationalization of oil: //www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?sum=82&code=uki&p1=3&p2=3&case=16&k=ba&p3=5

Siavash

Fair enough. I respect someone who admits a mistake. Plus I agree this whole IC is not about them so I agree to keep the discussion to Iran. Native American history really has nothing to do with Iran now or in the past.

Yep, my knowledge of native americans is next to zero

I sincerely admit the fact, but my argue was about something else. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Siavash 

This is

ridiculous. With all due respect Siavash you know nothing of Native Americans. Please don't even go there. It has nothing to do with Shah; Savak or any of it! I don't care wht links say. The Native American culture was complex and not monolithic. It evolved in different regions and different times. You are mixing North American with South American, The mix up a span of:

• Mayans - South of Mexico 3000 BC - 800 AD
• Aztec- Mexico 600 AD - 1500 AD
• Inca - Peru 1300 AD - 1500 AD

It is like mixing Egypt; Persia and China! Then turning around and saying they were all primitive. I have to say your recent post made me lose all respect for you. Sir you have no idea what you are talking about. It is best to keep quiet to show such deep ignorance. I am embarrassed to even see these posts by an Iranian. But I am glad that Arj is here to show we do not all share your beliefs. Please stick to Iran and leave Native American talk to those who kow it.

Arj, did you read the link I posted?

 Dear Arj, I posted a link that shows Native Americans are suffering from unemployment and lack of education. You may google it yourself. it is easy. Furthermore, I explained about labeling and concept of "anti-colonial" power that you keep emphasizing in your comment. The concept that leaded our nation to the currrent misery. If you really love Iran, you shouldn't promote the idea of anti westerners on this site. That idea (death to America- death to Brits) put our nation in such a misery we are seeing these days. Nothing happened to westeners. They still enjoy whisky and rock 'n roll music as they were enjoying during shah day. Only Iranians were suffered. Hope I made myself clear.

Re questions

Dear Siavash; just as I thought, you know nothing about Native Americans, their culture and civilizations (or lackthereof), yet you have the audacity to make unfounded specualtions! Moreover, I don't know what this issue has to do with Shah, Savak, George Habash, MEK, Tudeh...! I especially liked your comment about classical music vs folk, it was hillarious! Nonetheless, although you did not answer my questions, I got my answer!

Arj's questions, concerns

"may I ask on what knowledge do you base your claim that native Americans lack in education, culture and history of civilization? " Arj

Yes, Below is literature indicating the lack of education among Native Americans.8.8% has bacholor degree.