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we're new to this

Iranians are new to the idea of being minorities.  For thousands of years, we've been the majority.  We've never been forced into ghettos or subject to genocide.  We haven't learned the importance of community because we never had to build one.  It's been taken for granted....

They're right here

Just look at how many of our fine eye-ranians came out of the woodwork to slam NIAC. Nathan you should ask them why they spread false rumors and sabotage a group led by one of the most intelligent, outspoken Iranian analysts in Washington DC. Iranians do not eat their young but they have always engaged in Nokhbeh koshi.

Iranians sacrifice themselves for their Young

Mr. Nathan Sugarman, the title of your article is just the opposite of the verity that Iranians have unparalleled love for their children and easily sacrifice themselves for their young.  This is not to say that there are no shortcomings and blind spots in Iranian culture, but what you picked is not one of them.

On the subject of NIAC there are documents that this organization has intentionally or unintentionally engaged in lobbying activities in USA for Islamic Republic of Iran.  Presently there is a court case in USA that will decide on the outcome of these allegations. Of course,  you are well aware of the theocratic (religious dictatorship) rule of IRI clerics in Iran for the past thirty years and that regime’s innumerable domestic and international criminal activities.

The disparate views of Iranian.com commentators show the democratic process of freedom of expression and not your conclusions of “loss of complaining right!” or similar unrelated ones.  Your conclusions remind me of the Persian saying translated as “What does Mr. Goodarzi have got to do with Mrs. Shaghayegh?”

NIAC is trying to paint a different picture-

79 revolution was a big mistake and that is recognized by political analysts who were part of the revolution including Abbas Milani. Yet if the revo;ution was prevented (the government and opposition made mistakes a society is amde of both) Iran would have been ahead of S. Korea and perhaps cmpeteing (economically) with many western countries. Now NIAC is trying to save this Government.

You can not compare the two, nor you should since 30 years has passed. Now just understand those who want to save this idiocracy just for their own benefits.

خشت مال در بیابان عاشقان زیر لحاف              هر دو میمالند اما این کجا و آن
کجا

Are you kidding me Q?

Are you saying that Monarchists who are now being marginalized?? I have new! They got marginalize 30 years ago. The real money and power to the tune of billions in in the hand of Islamists. Who is getting the oil money? It ain't the Monarchists.

It is laughable that the 60's left still hates the Monarchists. I was neither but from what I see I pick the Monarchists any day!  Why don't people just admit that the revolution was a bad idea and we were better off before.

It is not that simple

Dear mannya2001

I am afraid your simplistic black and white approach just does not wash. The problem is that you are also falling into the same trap of over glorifying one part of Iranian society in the expense of demonising another group and that just as bad.

I do not know what part of Tehran you were staying while in Iran and what do your relatives and friend do for living. But my suggestion to you is that you should have opened your eyes and looked a bit harder. May be you would then have seen the millions of people living under the poverty line (even according to IRI’s own statistics and standard). May be looking harder you would have seen that flyer posted on the wall by a young 23 years old who was offering to sell his kidney in order to be able to pay for his Daneshgah e Azad fee or you might have seen the thousands of young under aged girls who have resorted to prostitution because of financial hardship and lack of government support.

Or if you have bothered to investigate more you might have found out that the problem of heroin addiction has even penetrated our primary schools and is threatening the very fabric of our society and culture. You might then have known for every success story there are many destroyed lives.

Now I am not telling you these words as an outsider who lives in the West and comes to Iran once a year for a free holiday and cheep dental treatment or plastic surgery.

I am a civil Engineer living in Mashhad. In fact I am one of the lucky ones who have got a job. I earn around $700 per month and pay £400 of it to rent. Now you try to feed a family of four on $300 and pay all the bills. To bring you more into the reality I give you an count of prices here: one kilo of lamb is around £10 and the price for a modest set of cloths is $20 and price of a second hand car is £5000. Now you can forget about entertainment and pleasure or going to “ranches”. we are struggling just to make the ends meet.

Of course there are a special elite of wealthy is any society who live a luxury life no matter what, as in ours, but here that group are less that half a percent of our population most of whom live in Niavaran. This is why most of the people who can, are leaving Iran, especially the young and talented. Only two years ago one of my colleagues left Iran for England. Today although he is not doing his old job there and works in a pizza place instead his life is much more comfortable and peaceful. He has accumulated more wealth during this short time than all his life in Iran. He lives a comfy live and his children at least have a chance for better tomorrow. Now I am not saying all the Iranians abroad are saints in fact far from it, but they are hard working, determined and successful. In fact according to the Western governments own statistics they are one of the most successful migrant groups in the world and we are damn proud of them and their achievements.

Of course as I told in my previous posting we Iranian have a problem of being in constant competition with each other and that has damaged our sense of community. This is an inescapable fact and a serious issue that has to be addressed. However from someone of your stature I was expecting to look more deeply into this article and at least try to read between the lines. To ask yourself why a writer is trying to use a perfectly legitimate concern to pedal the propaganda of a pro Mullahs lobby. Personally I find something very naïve if not fishy about his argument 

NIAC tries to do control damage

All the groups you talked about, were minorities (Jews, Armenians or even Zoroastrians etc). and have done that to survive but there are agreements among them on their interests for survival. Generally speaking there are two school of minds here:

1- Those who advocated that "Islamic Republic is going no where and the West should look for a Grand Bargain and emphasized on Moderates” . 2-and Those saw no hope in Islamic Republic of reformation due to its Constitution.

The first Group (NIAC Supporters) were backed by some of the major corporations in Iran like "Atieh", Rafsanjani and major oil companies in the West. But the Green movement showed that there is no hope in Islamic Republic to reform (history taught them) and the Green movement has surpassed (ideologically) the reformists (although they may need them for now). NIAC on the surface was targeting young educated Iranians who most of them knew nothing about history of Iran (except eating Persian food and going to parties) and gave them a feeling of "Iranians can have a voice in America since the Jews and AIPAC have a voice" and to top it off, NIAC even built a bridge to Patriotic side of Iranians claiming that it helped National Geographic use the word "Persian Gulf on their maps (and certainly they may have had some effect”. Unfortunately behind the scenes NIAC (And now its other officers like Ghaemi from United4Iran who is trying to get close to Ebadi) advocating the lifting of sanctions against IRI. Meaning when IRI can use Siemens and Nokia technology to suppress the movements the western world should not interfere and it makes it convenient for the major corporations like "ATieh" and oil companies to do business in Iran. History has shown that Sanctions never bring down a government yet it can bring them to a negotiating table (Which NIAC does not talk about). To get one thing clear, Sanctions are not for bringing down IRI, rather bring IRI to a negotiating table and prevent Ahmadinejad from Atomic bomb. If our first priority is to discredit the Ahmadinejad government, it would be easier without the bomb. So any logical mind would back the sanctions in order to PREVENT WAR.

So my dear friend, it is not a personal issue with NIAC rather a principal political difference. We do not eat our child, rather our child got greedy or at least stood on the wrong side of the history. By the way I also grew up in US and do have higher education, I have studied Iranian history and have met Trita Parsi in person but he did not want me to be a NIAC member simply because I was a critique not a follower. Another issue is that the members of NIAC had no IDEA of these deal making behind the scenes nor they approved them. Yet it amazes me that these young and educated Iranians who live in a democratic country do not even question NIAC leadership and just follow and accept what ever NIAC does.

NIAC issue is only marginally about "Iranians"

Mr. Sugarman,

The NIAC issue is not so much about Iranians (some of it is, I admit), as it is about one class of people who have hitherto enjoyed power being replaced and marginalized.

I see your Armenian example, but raise you a Cuban one. For 50 years now, every new, progressive, dynamic Cuban American organization with potential for realistic change in status quo has been shunned by Cuban American elite. Why? It's not like these new groups are communist or pro-Castro. No, the answer is simple: rabid politics and opportunism on the part of the elite. The right-wing Cubans who came over early and had all the wealth have had the biggest megaphones and enjoyed all the power and attention in the community. If things change, they will lose out. So they attack moderate opponets not because they are Cuban, but because they are desperately holding on to a fossilized ideology and see the writing on the wall.

It's the same with NIAC. Iranian-American politics has been controlled by a wealthy pro-Monarchist/Islamophobic elite who (despite fantastic horror stories of the revolution) simply picked up their nepotism-gotten money and moved to LA, opened up a couple of rug stores and never lost an oppoturnity to present themselves as victimized "refugees". Because they had all the money and security, their voice has been dominant.

Now their era has ended, their power is eroding. A new generation inside and outside of Iran just doesn't care what these fossils say anymore. If and when a pragmatic, realistic and sane approach to Iran gets adopted by US, they will be completely finished and 100% irrelevent. So, to keep their positions of (self-appointed) "authority", they mindlessly attack anyone or anything that moves the community forward in a positive direction.

Their current and past perscription has always been the same thing: "If you can't put us back in charge, then don't make peace with Iran. Stay at a state of virtual war. It benefits us!"

Since this policy has resulted in no change that they supposedly want, one can't help but conclude they truly want to keep the status quo and enjoy their priviledged positions in the community. They have that in common with AIPAC, re: Palestinian issue.

But as I said, this group, which never was the majority of even Iranian-Americans, is practically finished. The old days are over. The silent majority has awakened and no amount of slander and backstabbing will change the tide.

These are the last cries of dinosaurs. Listen well, they don't have much longer to live!

Nathan: this is for your wife to listen:

 شعار مرگ بر ديكتاتور در كنسرت داريوش در ارمنستان

 //www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVpGAC-bMD8&feature=player_embedded

Truth is.....

The truth is that Iranian Armenians somehow blame the Persian muslims for the Turkish genocide of Armenians in 1915. They don't trust Persians and they're mad at muslim Iranians for not considering them one of their own.

In reality Iran gave Armenians home and peace, it gave them a place where they can feel safe from invaders and those who wished them harm.

Iran did the same for 4million Afghans and most every Afghan you see today is cursing Iran for not letting the 4mil stay in Iran even after Afghanistan got rid of Taliban. So you see, we don't expect thanks, we just do the right thing for the heck of it.

In reality other than 10% uneducated, fanatic, religious Iranians the rest including myself consider Armenians one of our own people. We love and respect them as we would any other Iranian.

No, Iranians don't eat their children, they cherish their children but their past was so great that in todays standards it's near impossible to own so much, accomplish so much and have so much respect.

So they hopelessly live in the past thinking that's as good as they get but they're wrong.

I believe sky is the limit and knowing Iranian's potential I think sooner or later they'll claim their position in the world and again they'll reach the top.

Hassan Daie

Hala inam bara maa adam shod! Links that don't have credibility don't mean nothing!

mannya2001

How old are you? because your logic is disturbing !

JJ, there is no Nathan Sugarman & there is no

Armenian wife for that matter, is it  pal? . Yet it is another subtle reverse propaganda work for our good old Lobby folks in the tradition of that fake monarchist "MansourS" wanting to bomb Iran & pointing out to NIAC as those standing in his way(reverse prop) ..looool ..;). I gotch you then hoping you learned your lesson Amateurs . At least do it on days that I,m off. Detective Sam is too sharp for you :).

Mr Sugarman or saltman or Goldman or what ever you choose to be; You dont exist pal & you are again the figment of imagination of one lone PR writer at the said lobby group . Pretty disappointing that  the editor goes along with this charade @ the expence of his hard earned credibility. pitifull indeed.

Cheers!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Mannya put you in your place

You have gone all quiet now, haven’t you? Read Mannya's comments again and repent. You see, we only pay £200 a month for nanny. And that is with bread, meat, fruit and all staples being more expensive than your country, not to mention the housing. Now you try to beat that.

If you did not have enough, read on, we live in concrete houses because concrete is better than wood and because we never have any earthquake in our country.

Dont even let me start on our latest plasma TVs and big ranches. And best of all, we don’t even have to work for it, because we have the right connections.

my pleasure

Dear vildemose

here is a sample

//iranbbb.org/IranianLobby/IranianLobby.html

If you are realy after the truth you will follow the links on this site and find out more for yourself

more than 90% of his budget

more than 90% of his budget from another shadowy organisation (Alavi foundation) currently under investigation by FBI.

Aryo, Please provide a link to your source. 90%?? where did that figure come from?

More dangerous than a lie

You know Nathan there  is only one thing more dangerous than a lie and that is a "half truth".

I may agree with you in many of your comments about Iranians not being united and always in intense competition with each other. A competition that sometimes becomes so ugly that transforms into fighting amongst ourselves and bringing each other down. I totally agree that we need to reassess our attitude towards each other and start being more understanding and supportive of each others good deeds and achievements. You get to argument from me there.

However using such argument to pedal the agenda of an IRI lobbyist group who does not and have never had the interests of ordinary Iranians and their strugle for civil rights in mind is really immature and a cheap insult to our intelligence.

It is very true that we need to recognize each other's achievements and good deeds and we need formal institutions who fight for civil rights of Iranians inside Iran and abroad, but when it comes to selling the agenda of people whose job is to buy legitimacy for the murderers and rapists that are the IRI and their murderer agents I find your remarks at best very naive and at worst deeply suspicious. To know more about what I am talking about just type the word "Kahrizak" in any search engine

So! Please my friend, do not underestimate our inteligence.We were not born yesterday. There are many legitimate lobby groups and individuals in US and Europe who have the best of Iranian people in hearth and had many achievements .In return we also support them with all the means at our disposal. However we simply refuse to give our unconditional support to a suspicious figure who gets more than 90% of his budget from another shadowy organisation (Alavi foundation) currently under investigation by FBI.

Just remember that intelligent responsible people support each other within a logical framework of lawful and clear principals. As long as those principals are met their support is there, but gangsters support each other blindly and only for  their own personal interests and easily swap side,when it does not, no principals involved

Just think about it!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with mannya

really can't add to that.

Right On

Nice Observation Nathan. I spent the first 25 years of my life in Tehran, last 20 in Silicon Valley. I don't know much about NIAC, but otherwise can't agree more w what you have articulately exressed. I have been exposed to many nationalities  and have always had difficulties making sense of my fellow countrymen behaviour in repect to each other. Thanks for your article, but expect a LOT of HEAT though as we don't seem to be able to digest any sort of criticism, let alone coming from an American Jew...

Thank you Nathan,

I found your article very kind and sincere and I personally thank you for that.

You are right for the most part but there is a hidden dynamic here.

Changes amongst Iranians happen very fast and I truly believe it's because we individually posses a higher mental capacity where in the context of society we lack competence. This has made us to become highly competitive and wasteful.

On the other hand, we have never experienced any form of political organization that can keep up with the speed of changes in our society or communities.

NIAC is no exception. They came up fast but they lost track of what matters to Iranians at the very moment the changes are commenced.
However, I believe, Iranian-American community are doing much better than others in terms of what they have accomplished individually and socially.

This also not to be forgeten that every single of us when got here were never imagined to stay here for long. This put our community planning (compare to Asian-American communities) and ex-pat heritage preservation mechanisim (compare to Hispanic- American communities) on hold.

We are still a work in-progress.

Thanks for your article and look forward to your next one.

Regards,

Maybe Your Wife Has Some Other Issues with Iranians

Nathan,

Although I totally agree with your assessment regarding NIAC, I think that your wife’s view of Iranian/Armenian situation is totally misplaced. Armenians are proud members of the Iranian family and are fully integrated into the fabric of Iranian society and every single Armenian/Iranian that I know cherishes their Iranian heritage.

Armenians came to Iran over 500 years ago to escape the prosecution. And even under the current brutal regime, they are being mistreated the same way as everybody else.

We, in the Iranian/American community, I believe, have not yet reached the level of maturity to understand the larger issues that affect us, the way Jewish or other minority groups have. But, then again, we have just arrived here. Give us another 10 years or so to figure things out.

If your wife is a product of an Iranian father and Armenian mother, there might be some incompatibility issues there. That is not new. Dr. Holakouee is an expert in cutting through a lot of these issues. Please give him a call!

If I am mistaken here, please accept my sincere apologies and disregard my comments.

I agree with Faramarz Fateh

and I think you & your wife judging Iranians without having a knowlege about our culture.  Your Example of NIAC is very poor case.  However,  we Iranians are very proud people and only, only need to be more unified in all cases where it comes to IRAN & IRANIANS.

Payandeh IRAN & IRANIANs

Really?

Mageh Irani ha pishian??   ;)

maybe some truth here....

There are some points presented in this article which i could not but  help remember similar sentiments expressed by friend's here at college. And these friend's happen to be non-iranians. For example, i think the notion of iranians tearing one another down isn't exclusive to the iranian community alone. I think this negative practice exists in other cultures/communities as well. Personally speaking my generation of iranian friends/iranian classmates are rather supportive of one another in our endeavors. However when it comes to my Parent's generation i see alot more of them tearing down their peers and being unsupportive; which is pretty sad. And yet i feel hesitant to write off in wide brush strokes that every iranian in my parent's age practices this horrible habit.  I feel there is a measure of truth in your article but it's bit too generalized for my taste.

Maybe or maybe not

I agree that organizations like NAIC should be supported.

Having spent close to a year in Iran, I can tell you another thing.  Iranians in Iran given their mass population of 70 million feel very little need to actually try to modify their behaviour to please other countries.

When I was out of Iran for so long, I was deeply troubled by the thought of a military attack on Iran.  When I spent some time in Iran, I realized 2 things:

1. I did not care for politics at all- even though I was very political outside the country

2. Iran is too great to be attacked.  I mean when you see the enormous population of IRan, you get that warm, comfy feeling that nobody can really hurt Iran because the people are united in defending the country.

Finally, while I was in Iran- I noticed that my feelings for Iranians in the diaspora was very negative.  Why? because Iranians in diaspora (including myself at some point) think that they possess things that the average Iranian doesn't have.  Example, good career, foreign passports...etc. 

Truth is that Iranians in Iran are living way better than Iranians in diaspora.  Iranians in Iran are more worried about changing their TV sets to make sure they have the best LCD TV.   They actually live in houses made of concrete not  drywall and wood.  They can pay a nanny $200/month to care for their kids 6 hours/day.  Try finding a nanny in US who is helps you with cooking and raising the kids for that money.

They don't have to be worried about the influence of rap music on their kids.   Kids in Iran actually mature fast and know how to dress and talk properly, unlike the BUrger King fed Iranians in diaspora who think the proper way of talking is "what's up G? Hell na, my rims are the phatest!" 

Iranians in Iran actually enjoy life- the well off go to their ranches and have barbeques and music.  How many Iranians you know in US who actually have ranches where they can call on 50 people to attend.  The not so wealthy go to the parks, camp out until 1am surrounded by their extended families and good cooking.

These are things that money can't buy.  I read somewhere that the level of happiness in US does not change much for people making over $75,000.  IN other words, a family making $ 500,000 vs family of two making $ 150,000  - their level of happiness is not very different.  There is certainly more to life.  And life is most about social gathering and participation with your own kind.  This is wired into us- go and examine the Animal Kingdom.  The further someone is from their OWN, the more depressed they are.

What your wife is preferening is based upon her experiences.  No one can know why she thinks the way she does.

Not eathing young!

To be honest I am surprised at the degree of emotional opposition to NIAC.  I am pretty much opposed to IRI. However NIAC has a right to express its opinion. Specially when it does reflect that of a significant number {a majority?} of Iranian Americans. 

I do not however think that disagreement with NIAC is the same as supporting AIPAC. One of the problems we have is the total villification of other points of vew. One group says NIAC = IRI. The others say: Opposed to NIAC = AIPC. Neither are right.

We should accept that other people may disagree with us legitimately. That does not make them "agents" or traitors. I think there are people on both sides of the NIAC issue who are well meaning.. The just happen to disagree with one another.

Nagging without Knowing

I red your article with interest and I have to agree with you that we are thought from the primary school to be competitive and we are competitive. And yes, we sometimes compete with each other to the expense of the team work.

But as pointed by others, your analysis is very simplistic and one sided. You nag at us for not being united and not supporting the NIAC but then how deep is your knowledge? We would support any organisation whole heartedly if we thought their action would benefit Iran. We are just suspicious and do not trust anyone easily. Studying our history and the numerous betrayal that this nation has suffered, may help you understand the root of the ever present suspicion in Iranians. Also these differences are in many cases due to Iranians different visions for the future of their country and not childish jealousy.

Finally, I wonder how old is your wife and if she would have distanced herself from her Persian roots if we were not given a bad name by the ruling Islamic regime. Never mind her, I know a lot of Iranians who hid their Iranian root in those early years after the revolution. We may be down, but we will come up again.

Thank you

Mr Fateh, just a slip of tongue !

Mr. Kabir and Mr. Sugarman

Mr. Kabir, aakhe ghorboonetam, its OF COURSE not OFF COURSE !! How could a scholar like you start his post like that?

Mr. Sugarman, NIAC is related to the IRI.  However remote that association maybe, any organization that gives the slightest credibility to IRI cannot and should not be supported by true Iranians.

Yes and No...

Yes, you are right about the way NIAC is treated, but that's not because Iranians are dysfunctional as a community, or eat their young etc... The attacks you see on NIAC are from Iranians who prefer AIPAC's agenda, and NIAC having proven itself a real resistance force against such powerful lobby, naturally has become their target, in the hopes that it does not become more powerful than it is.

I am going to venture a guess about your wife's preferring her Armenian side now... Just as an observation: most dual cultural or dual nationality kids take to the mother's side. Your wife's father being the Iranian parent could explain her preference too.

Thanks for the article

IRANdokht