Tanks but no thanks

Proxy battle between an empire, a very strengthened Russia, and democracy


Tanks but no thanks
by Ben Madadi

Recent events in Georgia show the new type of battle that is likely to rage for decades to come, between what is remained to challenge democracy in the world, beside terrorism, which in reality is not a serious challenge toward democracy, but just a historically never-ending struggle (in a gruesome way) of the humiliated against the powerful. Terrorism has always existed in various forms and shapes, which was very active also about a century ago, and was known as Anarchism. Today it is called Islamic extremism, and in the future there will be other types, more or less powerful.

However, the most serious and credible challenge toward democracy comes from more powerful ideologies that are more able to attract crowds and resources. The last of the truly powerful ideologies facing democracy was Communism, and Fascism before that. Today it seems that the new order has only left one single challenge, and that is imperialism. Both Communists, and Fascists, tried to create empires based on their ideologies as well, but their already accepted failures have left societies that are not yet ready for democracy in an identity limbo. And their governments, whenever powerful enough, reject modern democratic values, pursuing the same old urge of using their powers for expansionist purposes.

That is still a great challenge for democracy in the world, and it shows little sign of abating. Undemocratic and imperialistic countries like Russia, China, Sudan and Iran, see it fit even to unite with each other in order to challenge democratic values. And the regimes of these countries are not necessarily always unpopular, especially when faced with outside risks. Very often their national identity has been built around the idea of an empire, and their populations are not necessarily ready to ask for democratic rights from their regimes. But one thing is clear, that these regimes are not democratic, have no wish for democracy, and they are powerful enough to challenge the democratic world, especially in their immediate neighbourhood.

Although many of our fellow readers think that America is just another empire, the fact of the matter is that America, no matter how it behaves outside its territories, is a democracy. American regimes have over time proved to be some of the most democratic in the world, and they have shown that they are also, practically and ideologically, interested in promoting democracy in the world. The defeat of Germany and Japan in World War Two did not mean an American exploitation or domination for these nations, but the beginning of an era of democratisation and prosperity. The same has also been the case for Taiwan, South Korea. America has protected democratic regimes whenever it has been possible. There have also been mishaps. Nothing made by human beings will ever be perfect. And no democracy will ever be perfect.

The current conflict in Georgia shows the proxy battle between an empire, a very strengthened Russia, and democracy. And we shall not take the situation lightly. Democracy may be threatened much further in case the democratic world becomes too cosy in its appreciation of its powers and perspectives. It has not been historically proven that democracy always wins. Whatever resemblance of democracy Rome or ancient Greece may have developed during their glorious days, they eventually succumbed to what they called the Barbarians, who indeed had no intentions or aspirations for democracy. This was in part the consequence of their internal short-comings and corruptions but also due to their arrogance; the belief that they could not be challenged by other less sophisticated empires, but they were wrong.

The advances in technology and economic activities have provided the best conditions for empires to strengthen and be able to challenge democracy. Russia, Iran, and Sudan are selling oil to the West, while China is using its labour market. All these possibilities have been provided by the progress that the democratic world has undertaken. This progress has been offered to the undemocratic world, and the undemocratic world is little by little gaining such an strength that it is becoming a true challenge to democracy. And one obvious example is what is taking place now in Georgia, where a democratically elected government is openly abused and threatened by an imperialistic neighbour whose sole purpose is to destabilise the neighbourhood in order to exert undue influence and, in some cases, overt occupation. And, as mentioned earlier, these undemocratic regimes are very often able to unite in the face of the ideology of democracy, though in reality they are always thinking about the elimination of the others, as the mentality of any true empire would suggest. This is not the mentality of America however. America, unlike a genuine empire, believes in friendship and competition, bilateral interests and democratic values, not domination, exploitation and subjugation.

Hopefully the democratic world, especially America and Europe, will unite and defend aspiring democracies and fragile democratic regimes, so that the future of a humane and democratic world would not be in jeopardy. The current conflict in Georgia is not just about Georgia, or its national rights and sovereignty, but it is an important point where democracy meets imperialism and expansionism.


Recently by Ben MadadiCommentsDate
Moving forward
Nov 06, 2008
Testing democracy
Nov 02, 2008
Playing dumb?
Sep 29, 2008
more from Ben Madadi

Thank god for Rush Limbaugh

by Anonypishi (not verified) on

Thank god for Rush Limbaugh and the fifties, some people are sooo stuck in it.
Yeah, commie this, commie that. That’s all you guys can say, just branding people and no logic.


More words and accusations

by abc (not verified) on

More words and accusations in trying to discredit and misrepresent.

Is there any other way other than more fabricated wars and of course the "collateral damages"?

Do we still have an 18th & 19th century mentality and policy towards viewing and dealing with other countries?

Is this in our interest? Is it in the interest of future generations of humanbeings?

Now please continue with trying to discredit opinons and comments any which way you can.

"I keep reminding myself that the Iranian diaspora has a large quotient of mindless leftover Stalinist/Marxist automatons among their readership of this site."


. I keep reminding myself

by Not Anonymous (not verified) on


I keep reminding myself that the Iranian diaspora has a large quotient of mindless leftover Stalinist/Marxist automatons among their readership of this site .

No mention is made by the Marxistist/commies of the BTC pipeline threatened by the Soviet invasion which serves as the only outlet of Central Asian oil & gas...

Just imagine if there was no US in the world and the likes of corrupt and fascistic Russia and China were the main super power, totally unchecked.

Scary thought for all of us, particularly the Islamist revolutionaries.

How do you think Russia and China will deal with Caliphate-building aspirant muslims revolutionaries??? Not a pretty picture...

what a fabulous world it would be if everyone lived together in one glorious state, marching lockstep towards the only true goal of human society - "glorious world communism/socialism"!!!

Human Rights Watch is having trouble finding anything like the figure of 2,000 civilian victims of the Georgian military that Russia keeps repeating:

Meanwhile, investigators began to look into allegations of atrocities committed in the separatist enclave of South Ossetia, where the war erupted on Aug. 8. Human Rights Watch reported that researchers witnessed “terrifying scenes of destruction” in four deserted ethnic Georgian villages, and said they the villages had been looted and burned by South Ossetian militias.

Anna Neistat, one of the researchers, said by telephone from Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, that they had found no evidence so far to substantiate Russian claims of widespread brutality by Georgian troops.

Human Rights Watch has been able to confirm fewer than 100 deaths — a far cry from the death toll of 2,000 regularly cited by Moscow.

“If the Russian government continues to claim that 2,000 people were killed as the result of the conflict, it’s time to provide some evidence, it’s time to provide some data, name, age, gender, the circumstances of death,” Ms. Neistat said.



You can lie and try to

by abc (not verified) on

You can lie and try to incorrectly label and discredit any persons and comments any which way you can, but at the end of the day the truth can't be changed no matter how hard you try to rewrite and misrepresent the facts.

Typical fanatics having nothing to say other than playing their usual dirty games:

"Pathetic, and absolute lack of ethics and morality, pure hatred, and jealousy of United States has blinded these pseudo-intellectuals,"

"the reaction of the Islamist, and leftist pseudo-intellectuals here on this site has been nothing short of abysmal on the Georgian issue".

Hint, many here are against bogus wars that of course, have absolutley nothing to do with "democracy", among other things and motives and intentions (may it be against the Georgians or anyone else). This Georgia affair is about control of the oil and gas pipelines and power and money and control, Sherlock.


Ossetians are Persians

by Shamse Vazir (not verified) on

I don't know why everything in the world has to be linked to the IRI/Islam/Israel issue. Frankly I am really sick of reading posts by right-wing Iranians on one side and Islamists on the other side who think the whole world revolves around the IRI/Israel conflict, some of us think there is more to the world.

The conflict between Russia and Georgia has much more to do with:
1) Russia wanting to flex its muscles and in particular put Georgia; Ukraine and the Republic of Azerbaijan on notice regarding NATO.
2) The oil and gas pipelines going through the region and Russia wanting in.
Now it is true that if Iran was still US friendly, the dynamics would be very different like the pipeline would likely go through Iran. But this is an incidental factor. Russia still wants to let the world know it is around and it has big guns.
As for the conflict itself, the Ossetians are Persians see: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossetians. They speak an Iranian language: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossetic_language, They are neither Georgian nor Russians.
Unfortunately due to geopolitical reasons and the messed up nature of the IRI it is not possible for Iran to form a union with them but we should support the Ossetians in whatever way possible. From the news it looks like the Georgian president picked the wrong fight at the wrong time. So in all reality Georgia will likely lose South Ossetia to Russia for the near future. My hope is that sometime in the future all Iranian people will be able to unite under some sort of federation and that would include the Ossetians.


The reaction of leftist pseudo-intellectuals here

by Parthian on

the reaction of the Islamist, and leftist pseudo-intellectuals here on this site has been nothing short of abysmal on the Georgian issue. Some of more nutty ones even go as far as blaming the U.S for the conflict there, as if US is pulling the strings of Russians. The reaction has been most dishonest because not one condemnation of the Russians has been expressed. In the past 4 days, 3000 Georgians have died, there are reports of rapes, and pillages of 3 Georgian villages (according to Amnesty International). What is worse is that Russians have made no pretense about their bombing efforts, it has been the usual, uncivilzed, and barbaric stalinist style of indiscrimenate bombing of civilians in an effort to completely subdue them.

The Iranian left is so corrupt that they still see this Russia as their fatherland. Seems like, they are still taking their orders. In their eyes, Russia can not be doing anything wrong.

All these crap about Palestanians, yet not a word about Georgians. As someone correctly mentioned here, Ossetians and Georgians are of Indo-Iranian ancestory. There is been many historic links between Persia and Georgia, including lots of high ranking Iranians ministers during the Savafids, and Qajars who were from that area. Up to two century ago, they spoke the Persian language as an official language. It is absolutely criminal of the Russians to be bombing the civilians, and invading a soveigrn country.

It is pathetic that McCain's statements about Georgia gets condemnation, but the invasion of the country does not. Pathetic, and absolute lack of ethics and morality, pure hatred, and jealousy of United States has blinded these pseudo-intellectuals, and it seems, not much has changed since 1979. One wonders if Khomeini had the right ideas about these leftists, and commies!


what democracy?

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

Ben you are right "The current conflict in Georgia is not just about Georgia" it is about the energy path. An you don't even need to think deeply! Just find the U.S. NPR transcript (August 13th am).... it is almost all about the energy path and its importance not just for the Europeans but for the U.S.


Iran and Democracy!

by Killjoy (not verified) on

Althouh I understand the war between Russia and Georgia is a very important issue which may, eventually, influence the situation in Iran, however, I think Iranians who, indeed love Iran and care about its future, should try and give priority to issues such as democracy in Iran and how it can be achieved while exposing the brutalities of the Ruling Terrorists in Tehran.


Do not repeat the corporate media story please

by Anonymous1 (not verified) on


Putin Walks into a Trap

by raha darband (not verified) on


I think all people of

by abc (not verified) on

I think all people of different places and countries and cultures and religions should look at themselves, if there is any hope for a more sane and better world for future generations of mankind.

As for democracy, decency, justice, right, wrong, greed, lies, barbarism, murder, horror, etc.,
what is there to say.

A sample of a consistent and deliberate "democratic" presentation of news and events by the warmongers in mass media, trying very hard to justify starting another war among the public (w/audio):



What about Capitalism???

by KB on

Mr Madadi

Interesting post and point of view.


You have mentioned Communism and Fascism were the last ideologies that challenged democracy and now it is Imperialism. Whether or not Imperialism is an ideology that you can govern a society with is very debatable .. But what you failed to mention is the constant battle between Capitalism and Democracy and there has been many discussions about this by many scholars. If you want I am in the camp that agrees capitalism interferes too much in democracy.


Clearly capitalism (as a system) has worked for China and Russia in the recent years but the system of governance is not democratic, very much like Iran in Shahs time. What is being done in Georgia, although terrible, can be very easily compared to the invasion of Iraq by the US as “protecting their interests”. Whilst I prefer the western style democracy I can see how viewed by Russians, capitalism is working with their “undemocratic” system and this war is a part of that.


I also do not think you can compare Russia and China with Iran and Sudan. It really is not comparing apples with apples for so many reasons…



My Azari friend born and

by Anonypishi (not verified) on

My Azari friend born and raised in Tehran use to say they were Russians because her grandparents were from Baku Azarbaijan.


Ossetian are originally persians

by mortezart (not verified) on

Ossetian are originally persians.
Russian was at war with in Iran in 1813 and 1826(Russo-Iranian wars).

All the cities, towns, and villages of Georgia were given to Russia at the Golestan Treaty(1813).

The 2nd treaty in 1826 undermined the dominant position of the British Empire in Persia and marked a new stage in the Great Game between the Russian and British empire.



by Anony (not verified) on

Democracy...democracy...USA a democratic power??!! what are you smoking? TAKE A LOOK AT IRAQ.



by Anonypishi (not verified) on

Sorry guys no Islamist or communist here. But I believe people who don’t give rat’s ass about other people’s lives should be given the scrutiny.
How dare the Russians invade a sovereign country in the 21 century? Who does that I wonder?!!!
I find Saakashvili giving speech in English to Georgian masses quite amusing. Now watch this video Saakashvili running for his life:


Islamists' lackey forefathers

by Fred on

Except the very few who are beholden to the Islamist republic, what the Russians are doing in Georgia and its Russian financed separatist areas is eerily familiar to Iranians.

 Roughly speaking, the Soviets used the very same justification in trying to gobble up the rest of the Azerbaijan province of Iran to add it to the present day Republic of Azerbaijan which had earlier been forcibly annexed from Iran. Then too the Soviets were claiming to be supporting a breakaway republic and were only forced to leave their local lackeys after Truman’s famous ultimatum.

 Listening to the Islamists defending the Russians’ intervention on the side of its armed and financed Georgian separatists one can better understand how and why against their motherland their likewise ideologically corrupted forefathers became the lackeys of the Soviets. Needless to say way before the central government forces arrived to bogusly claim victory as soon as the turncoats lost their Soviet backing the local Iranian Azaris turned on them making mince meat out of the lackeys.


Are you serious Ben?

by another iranian (not verified) on

Democracy...??? That is hilarious if you know anything about the history AND geography of the region.

Georgia ate excess shit (goh-e ziyadi khord) last week but I'm not convinced that US and Israel didn't prime it to do precisely that and at that particular time. Desperate times lead to desperate measures. For the US the battle is for its losing super-power status and for Israel, alas, survival.

The question is which side will Iran lean to in the near future: US or Russia. Democracy is not an issue -- and not just in Russia or Georgia or Iran. It's not even an issue in the US anymore.


Hitler had a lot of dreams too

by Anonymous567 (not verified) on

To Jaleho

Keep on dreaming my boy! the U.S. will never ever abandon Israel or give your mad bosses carte blanche to do whatever their mischievous minds want in the ME. How politically ignorant you are. How increadibly stupid your mullahs are ... keep on dreaming.


Israelis of the site should learn!

by Jaleho on

Arrogance blinded the IDIOT of Georgia. Saakashvili thought that since US funds have brought him to power by a phony "revolution", the US would endanger its own economic sanity to save the well-used puppet of Georgia! Yeah right, everyone is watching Olympics, so while their eyes are away let's go and gobble up S. Ossetia!! The guy was DUMBER than a log.

Israelis of this site instead of trying to re-write the  history as it is their hobby,  better start learning lessons from the REAL events! Their Israel might have been a much bigger puppet of the US than Georgia, with a well networked fifth column inside the US through AIPAC, yet tides are turning. Now that Israel has become a US liability instead of a good lackey it used to be, US can flush it anytime Israel make an IDIOTIC mistake like Georgia!!


Democracy & the Islamists

by Fred on

Following the Islamist republic’s propaganda organs and its apologists, supporters and suspected moles leave no doubt what position the Islamist republic is taking in regards to the recent expansionist movement in Georgia with the clear aim of reestablishment of the Soviet empire.

The sad story is the Islamist lefty/commies harbor so much animosity towards the West and U.S. in particular that they have selective memory and do not remember that it has always been Russia that has consistently been at Iran’s throat. All these fellow travelers are looking for is a counterweight and as usual the resulting cost to Iran’s national interest could not be further from their democracy averse clouded minds. 



by Kurdish Warrior (not verified) on

great article..totally agree.......


Saakashvili a total IDIOT

by Anonypishi (not verified) on

Georgians should really thank their decider. 2000 dead in 4 days. He’s pathetic.


I Fully Agree

by Zion on

Great points Ben. My thoughts as well.



by Mammad on

What democracy? 

A true democracy does not attack other people unprovoked.

A true democracy does not shut down the opposition publications and newspapers.

A true democracy does not use force and brutality to stop demonstrations against hotly disputed elections.

A true democracy relies on people, not foreign powers, for support.



The problem with U.S.

by Mehran-001 (not verified) on

Is Mr. Bush and Cheney. They went into Iraq without the approval from security council and created a precedent for other countries to do the same. So Now my good friends welcome to the jungle that one moran president created. Anybody can do anything to anybody because he/she is bigger.

AmirAshkan Pishroo


by AmirAshkan Pishroo on

You are right about the US. Moreover, the US is now undoubtedly the only one superpower. But few trust her to be sufficiently benevolent or wise to use its power for everyone’s benefit.

Farhad Kashani

Ben, great article.

by Farhad Kashani on

Ben, great article.


Prince of Georgia

by Surna (not verified) on

Democracy...democracy... Since when Georgia is a democracy!! What the hell democracy means?

PS: Turkish king (Aga Mohammed khan Quajar) of Iran in 1795 killed my great grand father (king of Georgia) and destroyed Tbilisi.