Misc

McCain, the senile Rambo in his 70s

ready to save us all single-handedly from "evil". (Plus just a few thousand more people dead to prop up the military industrial complex and energy companies)

We hail Ramdo McSame

analogy with Jewish People's struggle

I can see your analogy, but must point out some serious differences, since the dynamics are very different:

1-Iranian internal struggles are much more of a deadlock than those of the Jewish people. As far as I understand, while there are orthodox Jews, they did not constitute the most well organized, funded, determined wing of politics among Jewish political groups (Please correct me if I am wrong). With Iranians, the sum of the nationalists, monarchists, and leftists were no match for the hezbollahi machine which used large scale terror tactics against its own people as well as others. In short, Iranians are much more polarized (btw, that is the direction the USA is headed today also)

2-Jews weren't trying to overthrow an entrenched, terrorist, oil rich, and brutal government in a country they already had, they were forming a new country from scratch in an area where the British were withdrawing. It is like expatriate Iranians trying to set up an independent Taiwan-like entitiy on an island somewhere (which might be an alternative to freeing our country directly)

I do agree with you somewhat about our diaspora- they should be doing more. There is quite a bit of opposition, but like the Iraqi opposition under Saddam they are disunited and bicker, and are out of touch with people in Iran, so they have no credibility nor chance of success in Iran anyway. The best they can do is identify activists underground in Iran and send them money/support somehow, but those in Iran would probably not want their help anyway because they would instantly be labelled as foreign agents. Hence the current status quo.

You just need to accept- full frontal confrontation (even passive civil disobedience) of Iranian people against the Iranian government will not work in a decentralized spontaneous fashion (which is the fashion it has been happenning so far). The day that an organized unified command structure with a corresponding communication network in Iran comes to exist, this regime is finished. The regime knows this, and that is why it invests so much (and successfully) in preventing it.

Finally, on the Iraq war- the US administration did not succeed in getting allies, UN or otherwise, because they went forward based on a LIE. Remember, there were UN inspectors (who were actually very effective despite your ridiculing the UN), and there was no hurry to invade. So the US and UK went so far as to claim that the Iraqis posed an *imminent* threat, and had a 45 minute attack capability, and so an invasion had to happen immediately. If one is making such claims, they better have SOLID intelligence that can be shared with the rest of the world the minute the invasion is over. But they didn't. Therefore, in one move, the Bush administrations destroyed all credibility that the US had in Europe and elsewhere since the end of WWII, something that will take years/decades to recover from. Ironically, by ruining their credibility and preoccupying their military, they handed a blank check to Iran's rulers, who couldn't have asked for anything more from the Americans. They got their security, and Iraq on a silver platter (I guess this is McCain's definition of "victory")

-Fair

Facts- Which ones?

You are very arrogant to say I am ignoring the facts, when you clearly really have no clue what is happenning (and has happenned) on the ground in Iran. The sources you mention are all western media which I have talked about already, and that is the problem. They don't fully report, and even when things are available to report, they don't bother. For example:

-4-5 years ago in Esfahan (a religious city which many argue started the revolution against the Shah) there was a large uprising. It started small and was over a local issue. But so many people joined in, setting fire to Khamenei's pictures and chanting anti regime slogans. The regime security initially retreated as the crowds were growing rapidly. After a couple of days, some very large regime security people came, according to eyewitnesses they did not even speak Farsi, brutally beat the hell out of EVERYBODY with clubs and knives and chains, and swept up everybody they could. The people they swept up were NEVER to be seen again. The local government made some concessions on the local issue, but the signal was clear. Dissent will be met with overwhelming force. Esfahan fell quiet ever since.

- Similar to the above in Eslamshahr, a suburb of Tehran happenned several times, in the 90's as well as this decade. Arabic speaking security guys, disappearing demonstrators, and a complete cleanup operation to cover everything up nicely.

-Early this year Students in Shiraz and several other cities held mass protests, at the excuse of a disagreement with the university administration- but made it an anti regime event. Their slogan was "Commander of Taliban- this is your last warning. The student movement is ready to rise up". Regular citizens joined where they dared. I don't need to explain to you what happenned afterwards.

-The funeral of the Forouhars and other murdered intellectuals in 1998 became a demonstration with about 100 thousand people against the regime. The regime cracked down ruthlessly as always- harassing the participants, and taking away some to make examples of.

-In 1988 the regime mass executed 10's of thousands of political prisoners without trial to send a clear message to the opposition. The female victims were raped before being executed to prevent from mistakenly going to heaven. (This is common practice by IRI government)

I can go on and on, but I think you get my drift. I also challenge you to find where and how much coverage to any of these events any western "democratic freedom loving" media gave. And then perhaps you can still tell me I am ignoring the facts, facts that you and other westerners are clueless about.

You claim the students and women's rights and workers' unions demonstrations are not the "majority" of people. Did you know that in the large student uprising in 1999 regular people also started to take part, and the regime sealed off the entire area leading to the university to prevent crowds and be able to do their "mop-up" unobserved? Same with the women's and workers' demonstrations? How many dead and mutilated bodies do we need to produce for your satisfaction?

EVERYDAY in Iran, people resist every way they can, whether it is resisting the militia when they try to enforce Islamic dress or fighting for human rights. Some of it ends up here on cell phone camera video, but much of it doesn't. These are people who are struggling to live daily and take care of their basic needs, yet still put everything on the line when they come out like this.

Demonstrations need to be organized, there needs to be command and control with a communication network ON THE GROUND in Iran. There is NO such possibility in Iran today. In 1978, this was provided by the mosques, which the Shah left alone (in my opinion a huge mistake). It was orchestrated by Khomeini, who was a clergy who had been exiled for less then 15 years to neighboring countries, and had absolutely no place or prospect outside of Iran. Today, the Iranian diaspora is disunited and defeated and has been out for 30 years. The regime has succeeded in cutting them off from inside Iran in a way that the Shah could not dream of. And the opposition leaders who had any standing have got their throats slit, like Dr. Shahpour Bakhtiar, right under the nose of French police, who then did a sham of an investigation, and did not hold the Iranian government accountable one iota.

LOTS of Iranians have fought and died and been brutally put down for their country. Iranians from all walks of life. You have no place demanding more from them, they are poor victims with their hands tied and are living in a huge jail, supported by western, Chinese, and Russian interests. And furthermore, you have no place proclaiming "facts" to an Iranian like me when really you obviously have no clue what goes on in Iran.

I have gone on too long, I will continue in a next post...

Facts

Fair,

I'm sorry but it is you who are ignoring the facts. As you yourself mentioned there has been student and women demonstrations. I have also heard of bus drivers activism. There was also a BBc report on a young activist student recently who was tortured and has now fled to the US. These activists and demonstrations are clearly not the majority. Yet they do risk and many of them are alive and fighting. The point is that the majority is silent. You have facts to the contrary? then share them with us. What about the Iranian diaspora? No one is killing you here, yet after 29 years I see nothing worthy of mentioning, no active opposition, a government in exile, partisans, lobbyists for the Iranian struggle in free lands, anything?!

I agree with you about the media and its despicable neglect of the plight of Iranians, as well as the abhorrent failure of Western countries to do what is right. I totally agree with you. You are not the only ones though. It was the same when Jews were being targeted, deprived of all their lives all over Europe and even when they were hurled into ovens in Poland. Even when at war, the allies couldn't care enough to bomb even one concentration camp among their raids, nor were they willing to give Jews visas to enter the free and safe lands. The United States of America itself has an ugly record, they even forced a whole ship of refugee Jews, men women and children, away from the shores of America back to Europe and death. My point is, you are the ones who have to do something about this, no one else will. I am not endorsing it, but this is one lesson we have learned throughout history. It is your responsibility to save yourselves, especially since this is your own doing. The mullahs came to power by a popular revolution, didn't they? I am saying, you will pay. It is a fact, not a decree on my part. It is a simple fact. One way or the other, you will pay, and if you look closely to the misery you are in now, you'll realize that is what is going on already. Don't blame me for the way it is.

Iraqi invasion was based on a general misinformation about the possibility of WMD in Iraq. I don't argue that this administration made a mockery of itself by the pathetic and faulty way they handled the issue and sold it before he invasion, but that is what all about, that and the fact that they US was hoping to use Iraq as a catalyst for long term democratic change in ME as a final remedy to the threat that they finally grasped was there after 9/11.

'...then it needs to fall back to whatever allies it can get,'
That is precisely what US did, because there is no if here. The UN is useless. Now he way Iraq was handled after the invasion is where the mess all began, and yes the US is therefore in a much weaker position than before. Though, but still what needs to be done, has to be done. History is full of ups and downs and remember, it is still too early to judge what will come out of the Iraq in the long run.

American Wife,

I don't need to know why you or any one else come here. I think that is irrelevant and it is no business of mine anyway. I am also not being antagonistic and arbitrary intentionally. I am expressing my opinion, and if some feel antagonized, it is not an issue for me since I am not here to endear myself to anyone. You see something wrong in my arguments, argue against it and share it with us.
The Islamic Republic is a real threat to Israel and to the free world. Any such ideological paranoid fatalistic animosity has to be taken seriously. Failing to do so is the utmost act of negligence. It is an entire death cult antisemtic ideology of destruction that we are dealing with, not since Ahmadinejad, but since 1979. Seriously, you call me naive? How well do you know this system and what is going on there, what evidence do you have to present to justify your claim?
Seriously?

interesting discussion going on here...

and might I add WITHOUT the usual nastiness (well, at least so far).

I disagree with the ad...Zion, Iran IS NOT a major threat and McCluess making it appear so is just his usual worthless posturizing.  I don't think Iran has any real intention of annilating Israel... regardless of what Ahmadinejad says.  So your replying in kind to that useless bullshit is simply your not being realistic and for some reason providing you with some anti-Iranian slogans of your own.  Still not sure what your reason for being here is.  You say Iranian culture is your friend.  I hope that's true.  Being supportive of Israel's position IS your right and one that I happen to agree with.  Being antagonistic and arbitrary is NOT endearing you to anyone here.  I think I'm frustrated because I believe alot of what you say but damn... it's hard to get past that chip on your shoulder.

Appalled... LOVE your comment... Iran is weapon of mass distraction.  Truer words were never spoken...lol.

Darius... the usual anti-American comment made by someone living in the US and enjoying all it's benefits.  However, by virtue of it BEING the land of the free, you have every right to speak your mind.  Let me point out to you that while this IS iranian.com and FOR Iranians, there are visitors to this site who are Americans.  And while I absolutely hold to the standard that I am that visitor and never criticize Iran in IT'S many faults, it's offensive to me to hear it from you.  It just pisses me off.

Ah, what's the point.  Most Iranians can't even agree amongst themselves.

Wrong Zion

The majority of Iranians DO engage in active opposition against their government- it is just unorganized. You know why? Because anybody that begins to organize is KILLED. Therefore it does not reach the scale of large street demonstrations (like it did under the Shah). Again, look at the numerous demonstrations for women's rights, worker's rights, the student movement, etc. When these people go into the street they face the worst fate possible. A fate you cannot even imagine, yet demand from poor, oppressed people you have never met to rise up and take to obtain an outcome that suits you. You are obviously uninformed, and it is not surprising, because the western news sources and media never give a damn about these developments. So much for standing for freedom and democracy.

You are also uninformed (or choose to misinform yourself) when it comes to what YOU call "conspiracy stuff" about neocons and war. If this adminstration did NOT want to engage in world policing but felt compelled to react to 9/11, it would have NOT gone into Iraq, which had NOTHING to do with 9/11 and was a MASSIVE policing project, one for which they had the arrogance to not plan even though they were responsible for.

So is this "conspiracy" or deliberate war? By now most people know the truth and you can yell "9/11" as much as you want. You don't fool me or anyone.

And when it comes to the UN I am not naive. I recognize that multilateralism works better. Was George HW Bush also naive? How did he go about liberating Kuwait? And furthermore, if the US fails to get the UN blessing thanks to China and Russia, then it needs to fall back to whatever allies it can get, and that is a tough proposition now because of the US's self imposed diplomatic isolation. And no, 60 soldiers from Honduras does not count as an ally I'm afraid.

So Zion, if you want to make your points, do so based on FACTS, not your ideology.

FACT: Iranians have been fighting and dying for their freedom for the last 30 years. The fact that you and the media you take your information from are not paying attention doesn't change this.

FACT: Iraq, the costliest and most disastrous war in US history, had NOTHING to do with 9/11. And by now, even the US administration agrees with this position.

Only when you rely on facts can you call yourself...

FAIR

Fair

Well, obviously the majority of Iranians are against the current regime, but equally obvious is the fact that the majority of Iranians do not engage in active opposition to the system, otherwise it would not last this long. Hence they can't complain when the consequences of this regime in power catches up with them.

The usual conspiracy stuff about Neocons and war is too shallow and old. This was an administration that did not want to engage in world policing, but was dragged to it by 9/11. I know this is a popular fiction, but that is all it is.

You are very naive to think the UN backed anything is possible, given the current status of the corruption that infests the UN. Just look at the despicable fiasco that has been made of its human rights commission by Islamic countries. I won't even mention real powers like China and Russia here.

Rok goo, please refer to the first paragraph above.

Free rope to hang, the Nazi Germany was also after instigating wars. Didn't mean the allies should not have engaged in the war when it became necessary.

Iran...I ran so far away

That video is very amusing. Did that American guy really go to Iran? I don't think I have ever seen a young American in Iran on Film. I like how he showed the ignorance of the American culture and press with some of his ridiculous questions. very funny stuff. You should post it so its easier to find.

Economy is not important, nor the balance in our bank

John McCain's words & position: "there will be more wars"

(The following are not John McCain's words)
Never mind the people there, and what will happen to them and to their lives, to their cities and countries, afterall they weren't created by OUR God who created us (God told us so). They were created by a second grade God, they're not equal to us, they're primitive, brown, A-rabs & I-rainians and Muslims and extremists and savages too.

Americans are being distracted by deliberate nonsense, these paths don't serve the interest of the majority of the people of the United States, and due to America's power and global influence, nor for many people and countries of the world. The times keep passing on, we're not living in the 1950s or the 1830s. The world has changed.

America can do much better in the world, and this will not be the case if the archaic old 19th century European attack and sack, and lie & justify, and try to hurt from within tactics & policies are to be continued.

It can be much better, but not with the same warped views and overwhwelming deliberate distractions, which is the status quo. The economy is much weaker, and quality of life for a considerable portion of the population has dropped and is continuing to do so.

Hoping for less distraction and more attention to the real and important issues.

Zion

Zion I agree with your last post but have issues with 2 of your statements:

"as long as the majority has not stood up and done their responsibility
to redeem their name and position among nations, they are in no
position to demand others to be equally passive"

The majority have been anything but passive. I suggest you go and read about the uprisings by students, workers, and other citizens of Iran over the last 29 years. The response by the regime has been overwhelming. And if anything, the western media has been quiet about it. Just look at the story of Ahmad Batebi, the student activist who recently escaped Iran after 9 years of brutal torture and imprisonment, torture that was worse than what John McCain went through. Now you tell me WHERE in the western media was this reported. And there are many cases of this. So I would say the opposite of you- the freedom loving people of Iran have rebelled and been put down, and would appreciate if others were NOT passive about it.

"No one is advocating war. No one wants it, except the lunatics in Tehran."

You are almost correct, except for a bunch of neocons like Dick Cheney who would love to bomb and create another war and have their friends profit handsomely, as they did in Iraq. This bunch will gladly give out billions in no bid contracts to their buddies, send mercenaries like Blackwater in the 10's of thousands, and lie to their own people about how necessary this war is while they bankrupt the country. The more time goes on, the more frighteningly similar I see the US neocons to the Iranian hezbollah establishment. They need perpetual war to benefit their buddies and blame their incompetence on. And in a sick way, they feed off of each other.

If McCain comes to power, this feeding will continue, at the expense of the respective peoples.

The right way to deal with Iran is this: US get out of Iraq asap. Then work through UN and allies to put pressure on Iran's government to suspend uranium enrichment, and offer support for energy production. Then back it up with UN mandated threat of force and targeted sanctions. If US troops in Iraq are freed up, this threat will be credible. Right now it is not. And when the threat is credible, it is less likely that it needs to be used.

Some of this is happenning now, but the main reason it is not succeeding is that a) the US is isolated diplomatically in the world thanks to Bush/Cheney's screwups over the last 8 years and b)Iran knows that the US military is tied up and is not ready to fight it right now. They have the US in a self imposed corner and they love it.

Zion: No one is advocating war. No one wants it, except the

"No one is advocating war. No one wants it, except the lunatics in Tehran."

I agree with your statement above. So, you'd agree that waging a war is cow towing to the demands of lunatics in Tehran.

Be careful what you ask for. War is definately NOT peace and certainly both sides pay a hefty price. Are you (Israel) ready to pay a hefty price? Forget about Iran think about yourself for a moment.

Hay Zion you owed us a favor

Mr or Mrs Zion if you read the history ,Iranian never done anything wrong against the Jews in fact they helped them.
read about Cyrus the great and Ahasuerus(Hovakhshater) and Esther (a Jewish girl that married Ahasuerus) and how the Jewish nation have been protected by the king of Iran.
Iranian people has been taken hostage by the Islamist regime in Iran.
I hope the world help Iranian people the same way that helped the Jews in WWII.
but the way we see it they help the murderous regime in Iran for the last 30 years for cheap resources,and issues visa for the immediate family of those who robbed the country and Investing or residing in Dubai
(aUK colony),USA ,Canada ,Australia and European countries.

IRI Must be Attacked & Destroyed!

McCain is the man. He will finish the Job. The West has no use for the IRI. Its time for them to go like it was time for Saddam.

We'll be hearing alot of this till November ...

I'm afraid we will be seeing and hearing alot of simplistic attacks and counter attacks between the two candidates in the months to come. I think Obama needs to be himself and ignore all these simplistic arguments. With Biden on his side he should be able to find strong arguments that will make McCain look like an amateur in Foreign Policy. I just wish the average American had some Brains but unfortunately they hardly have any Grey Matter in their empty Skulls ...

I wish

there was a better candidate to vote for. Unfortunately McCain is old and quite a maverick individual and Obama is too young and inexperienced when it comes to foreign relations...

"and I'm NOT talking about

"and I'm NOT talking about IRI. I'm talking about the country and Iranian citizens"

Thank you for understanding the point of my question and replying  in your usual way!

I think I got my expected answer :-)

Iran is great country

Long live my home land Iran and I am not a stupid to sale  this beautiful to any one because they give me an visa to land ere and work like slaves, 30,000 child are die every day's and why Mr, Bush and all his friend not willing to tell us why war after war? why not peace and love and helping poor children, Question what is a last time Israel help or be nice to any poor nation? they are different from us for them money and money is every things to control the world and are TV or news paper to brainwashes us and we thinking negative about Iran or what they wish..

Zion be FAIR

Obama may not agree with you. That does NOT make him a moron.

You just said one of the things you need to create havoc is "archaic degenerate ideological devotions". Aren't you devoting yourself to an ideology of your own? Be careful not to fall in this trap, because there will be little that separates you from the fanatics.

I personally think Iran is dangerous, but that doesn't mean that the US or Israel should wage war on them, and certainly not in this time when the US has overspent itself and dug itself into a hole it cannot crawl out of, and it has lost so much credibility internationally. The US has few options.

You know why? Because the US followed an IDEOLOGY instead of its own interests. So yes, Iran is dangerous, but IDEOLOGY is more dangerous. On any side- especially one which has the strongest military in the world.

The US leadership need the brains to match our might. And I think Obama brings much more brains to the table than Bush or McCain anyday.

Majid

Iranian culture is an actual friend, without a doubt. Iranian people are potential friends. Iranian regime/state is the enemy. There are a few subtleties though. As you might have noticed :) Iranian people are not a homogeneous bunch, and there is still a faction, though a small one, who are islamofascists or lefty apologists of the worst kind. Nevertheless, small as it may be, as long as the majority has not stood up and done their responsibility to redeem their name and position among nations, they are in no position to demand others to be equally passive, or to be so sensitive of any criticism.

No one is advocating war. No one wants it, except the lunatics in Tehran. Nevertheless the pressure should exist and it should be regarded as a possible resort at all times. Otherwise the chances of a real war will actually increase.

Ultimately, there is a price to be paid. You either pay it willingly with courage to redeem your position or it will be imposed on you one way or the other as history unfolds. Satisfied?

Iran is a Weapon of Mass Distraction!

This is what 8 years of Bush/Cheney plus their fat cat buddies have done to the best country in the world: Record high Home foreclosures, Record high Deficits, Record high trade imbalance, Record low value of the Dollar, Record high Unemployment, Record high numbers living below poverty level, Record high Bank Failures, Record high oil and gas prices, Record high food and housing costs, Record high numbers of Uninsured, Deaths of thousands of brave American and Iraqi soldiers and hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi Men, Women, Children and Babies. If you liked the past 8 years then you'll love electing McCain/Palin!!!!!!!

May God save America from these Evil Evil Republicans and right wing monsters.

Zion,

you live in a war-torn country that your race put 3000 years to take back. Your curse will not end up here (well it doesn't seem so) as it goes back to your prophet Moses gift... Well girl, I can understand your frustation.

ZION

I'm going to ask you a question...............

Would you please, once and for all tell us what's your position, understanding, "jebhe"....... when it comes to Iran and Iranians inside Iran? and I'm NOT talking about IRI. I'm talking about the country and Iranian citizens. 

I mean......would you please specificly outline your point of view about Iran and Iranians........Friend ....OR.......Foe ?

If/when you do, remember your comments about Iranian olympic team!

C'mon ! have some guts!

Zion, please forgive those of us who are not as delusional as...

you. But in all seriousness, none of the incentives you have listed to be used by the "archaic degenerate" - for a moment I thought you are describing Zionism - ideological devotees to cause havoc has ever enticed A SINGLE Iranian to blow him/herself up or kill civilians, except when ordered or paid by the Governments of Iran, the US and sometimes Israel. The 72-virgins or the hidden-imam stories may fascinate Mr/MS Zion to the point that he/she can't go beyond such nonsense. But ignorance is no excuse for advocating violence nor bloodshed as Zion(ist) seems to be pushing for. It is simply not in the DNA of the Iranian culture to be callous and self-destructive. Some people think they are badmouthing the government of Iran, but again through ignorance end up insulting Iran and ALL Iranians. Attributing utter madness and irresponsibility to any government in Iran is insulting to all Iranians simply because Iranians have never acted so recklessly by attacking others just because they can and aren't rational! Obama, if elected, will not be able to perform miracles, but for you to call him a "moron" is really rich. I bet McCain/Bush comes across to you as a whiz-kid! I am going to consider Obama much more seriously now that I know you don't approve of him.

Terrible Ad

Name the only country on the planet to possess enough nukes to vaporize our planet 100 times over. Also, name the only country on the planet that has already used its nukes on another nation, which resulted in 300,000 deaths in a 48-hour period. And guess what, that all happened while the entire planet kept its silence and to this date the nation that committed that horrendous crime has not been made responsible for it. That same country knows that if Iran so much as farts in its direction it'll be nuked the same way as that other nation some 50 years earlier.

This kind of campaigning ad is not targeted towards intelligent people that know even a liitle bit about world affairs. It's aimed at getting the votes of the misinformed mid-west farmers that don't even know on what continent Iran is located. Heck, they don't even know what a continent is!

good ad. McCain understandss

good ad. McCain understandss that if we don't face the mullahs now, we will have to deal with them later and in a much harsher ways.

To Zion and all MacCain supporter

So do you want to bomb Iran and destroy another country? What is the solution?

In Iraq you and your violent and hateful supporters have so far killed over 1 million innocent Iraqis and destroyed a country infrastructure? is that the same solution for Iran?

McCain and Palin and all the other hardcore Christian fanatics and Jew Fascist want to see the destruction of a country not the freedom.

War is not the solution or he answer

USA is in 10 trillion dollars in debt and only McCain, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld an all the other corporate individuals have been benefiting from it not the people.

Therefore, no to Mcacan, No to Christian/Jewish fascism and war mongers and blodd suckers like Zion.

Great Ad

It says it as it is. It is a new world, you don't need a super-strong military to cause havoc, All you need is modern weapons and archaic degenerate ideological devotions, a love for martyrdom, the 72 virgins and a hidden imam and a few nukes are enough. Obama is a moron for not grasping this, and this is serious. For all of us.