Misc

Shmase Vazir, and all the

Shmase Vazir, and all the guys who stand with the people of Iran, very well put.

Cyclicforward

Indeed that is the distinction between the Iranian culture (and Middle Eastern culture in general) and the European culture.  The western European culture, (which the United States is a part of) uses an empirical approach to societal problems which allows it to learn from its mistakes, admit them, find solutions for them and move forward.  By contrast, in our culture we do not learn from our mistakes.  Instead, we try to scapegoat them by finding imaginary culprits and causes, and that is why we are centuries behind in cultural progress, technology, science, etc.  Today, the cause de jour for all of our problems are the "Zionists" (just read the comments on this thread) and the imperialists.  It used to be the Shah and the Pahlavi dynasty, but that outlived its usefulness!  God knows what will be the cause ten or twenty years from now.  But one thing is for sure: we are never responsible for anything! 

I don't know if it's narcissism or just plain collective stupidity, but whatever it is, we will be "andar kham-e- yek koocheh" until we learn to accept responsibility for our actions. 

Persia is Eternal.

To Aryan2008

Aryan, I think you got my message wrong. I did not mean that the persians were slave runners and I agree with your text. What I meant in my earlier message was that the Americans did have slavery in their country but they admitted that this was wrong and they did their best to undo it and remove this shame from their society.

This is why I admire the American culture and their sense of truth and honesty. This is a far cry from the IRI tugs who go on street and beat defenseless civilans just because they can do so. 

Pro US Iranians

Negativity between Iran and US are results of deliberate attempts by Islamists and Marxists in Iran who want to make enemies between Iran and US. Nevertheless it is a fact that Iranians are the most pro US population in the middle east. This is not Farhad's opinion it is a fact supported by polls. If you don't believe me then do a search on the internet and you will find plenty of proof.

For myself US has offered a home; and equal treatment under the law. This is more than I could get from the IRI even as an ethnic Iranian. The IRI stole my family home and everything we had. The US on the other hand welcomed me and my family and has protected us against lawlessness even when Iranians were very unpopular because off the criminal behavior of so called "student" hostage takers. So yes I do appreciate what US has done for me.

Islamists and Marxists are aware that their revolution has failed and are scared. Iranians want a democratic and pro-western government. This makes the IRI supporters get desperate so they want to drive a wedge between Iran and the west. So they go on blabbering about Israel; slavery and so on.

Slavery was abolished in the US a long time ago and right now a black man has a real chance for becoming president of the USA if you have not noticed. It is the IRI that wants to make slaves of all Iranians to the cause of Islam. They don't care about Iran; to them Iran is just a vehicle for advancing Islam.

NiloufarPArsi, Iranians are

NiloufarPArsi, Iranians are famous of being pro U.S. you know it, just don’t wanna admit it. Because, clearly, extreme leftists like you don’t go on based on reality, they live in their Stalinist utopian bubble. You people will never get over the fact that your model of government and society was miserably defeated, and because of that defeat, you will carry a never ending hate towards Iranians who reject that backward ideology (Which constitutes most Iranians), and United States which led the way in defeating your dark vision.

Cyclicforward we were not Slave runners!

Dear Cyclicforward,

Thank you for your message.

However, there is no evidence of Persians being Slave keepers or indeed have ever built a single building or army using slaves. As a matter of fact Persians were well-known for being slave liberators as Cyrus did to Jews in Babylon.

Any emergence of slaverism, i.e. Gholams in Iran coincides with the arrival of Islam in that country which was finally abolished by Reza Shah during early last century.

Farhad, you are right

Iranians are the most pro U.S. population in the middle-east. I also  personally think that they are moral and value human dignity unlike the Hezbollah tugs that are roaming the streets of Iran today. They have been slave owner at some point in their history but they were moral enough to admit it and correct the wrong they had done. You will never see something like that from IRI.

Farhad - US & Iran

Farhad,

what makes you think you can speak for 'Iranians' like that? Iranians do NOT love or admire the US by any stretch of the imagination. Your writing betrays a slave mentality of a rather pathetic kind: you sound like a masochist! But then again, perhaps you have no choice because you have chosen to live in the nest of slave owners and have forgotten that you should have your own values and your own sense of judgement. You romanticise about americans the way many iranians romanticise their imams from the mythical stories that have little resemblance to the truth. remember, khomeini was just one such imam and yet he was a total fool. in the same way american imperialism IS imperialism. It IS ruthless. It IS murderous, and it MUST be defeated before it kills millions more and before it is fully unleashed on innocents in Iran and elsewhere.

skatermom

Thanks for the comment.  Dinner tomorrow is ghormeh sabzi... what time can we expect y'all?  :-)  Heck, I'll even serve our special mehmoons our special bastani nooni after dinner.  Be advised though... I hand feed my husband his desert circes... you're on your own...:-0

American Wife, we are

American Wife, we are absolutely famous for being pro U.S. The whole world knows that. We don’t have to necessarily agree with everything that Bush does, but we love America for what it stands for, and what it has gave and inspired the world. It has lead the world in path towards self liberation and democracy. Please, don’t be fooled by these few Iranians on this site! People like these are blamed for the horrific situation our country is in now. Trust me, these people represent a tiny minority. But they are very vocal. Gotta give them that. Always remember though, we will always stand with America

Well said Farhad! AW, I

Well said Farhad! AW, I wish my AH (American husband) was this interested and or knowledgeable about Iranian culture. He's more interested in what khoresh is being served. The more he tries the more confusing it gets for him. You're doing great.

People have become

People have become product of thier envionment and soceity, It is a shame. Did anyone notice the Mozdooran in casual clothing contolinmg the scene? When Rodney King was beat up by police there was a riot! Perhaps this is an everyday event in IRAN, so there are use to it. Like an abused child. IRAN shodh VIRANEH! GOD help us.

Thanks Farhad

Sometimes it seems like there is such an anti-American theme.  I know this is iranian.com and a place for Iranians to vent.  I'd never presume that America is perfect but it does offer freedom and opportunities that are NOT available everywhere.  I guess I get just as defensive as anyone else here. 

Perhaps I'm Iranian after all...:-0

Anonymos man, you are not

Anonymos man, you are not only wrong, but it is clear that you know you’re wrong, but are engaging in spitting propaganda. A first grader knows how biased and pathetic you sound.

Early Americans and even today’s Americans, built one of the most glorious civilizations and democracies of all time. The Washingtons, the Jeffesons, the writers of the constitutions are considered some of the most brightest politicians and individuals in the history. At that time, writing a constitution that guaranteed democratic principals and assured the rights of people, were unheard of , with the exception of France. Todays Iranians constitution is somewhere around a 1000 years behind the U.S constitution. And the reason is very simple, because they are applying “pure fundamentalist Islamic laws”.

Early Americans established such a great nation, that has made some people furious out of jealousy of not being able to become like it, people like the IRI regime. Many countries in the world were inspired by early Americans, however, almost all countries in the world know how demonic the IRI regime is. People like George Washington and John Adams and Thomas Jefferson and Lincoln and Kennedy and Gore and Clinton, are nothing less than a superhero for great portion of the world. Even your beloved IRIs regime’s textbooks mentions good things about them Khomeini and his legacy, on the other hand, are considered a stain on the human experience.

People had different reasons to come to America. Most came fro religious and social freedoms, many for better economic opportunity, because this country offers both. Immigrants from all corners of the world come here for a better life, many Iranians fled social and religious oppression in Iran to flee here, same as early Europeans. This country has always been a beacon of freedom.

As far as Iran goes, early Aryans (I’m one of them ancestrally wise) who invaded the country and mass murdered the Illamites, were looked at as criminals too and genociders. What happened later? They built a great civilization.

U.S defended liberalism and democracy during and post both World wars. If it wasn’t for the U.S, those hundreds of millions of people would have not had a chance for a better life and democracy in Eastern Europe, Soviet Union, Japan, Korea, Germany, Western Europe, and elsewhere. American soldiers have died defending free countries in world war II. And those free countries were not only in Europe. U.S has been the biggest id donor to the world, the pioneer in fighting disease and poverty, the pioneer in helping democratic institutions and NGOs.

Anonymos-man, the days that you guys were able to re-write history are gone.

American Wife, America has EARNED the right to be a supporter of democracy in the world. Most people in the world don’t disagree with that fact. Of course no one wants to be bombed in its name, but all that you hear in the news is not true. People love America, they might hate Bush, but love what America stands for. One of the most notable people who love America is us Iranians. Of course, like any nation, we have the few who show the bad side of our great Iranian civilization, but don’t pay attention to them, Iranians support the U.S

Zionist Conspiracy!!!

This is all a Zionist conspiracy. Things like this never happen in Iran. This video is either made in Tel Aviv or the people who are draggnig and beating this girl are Zionist agents dressed in uniforms of Iran's "Zeynab sisters" and "Gasht-e- Ershad".

It's all these Zionists, blah, blah, blah, Palestinians being shot with rubber bullets, blaha, blah, blah, Zionists (again), blah, blah, blah, Israel, blah, blah, blah, Shariati, blah, blah, blah, Khomeini, blah, blah, blah...

American Wife: spoken like a true American

Most Americans keep saying "We're #1" on faith alone. When it comes time to evaluate it, they simply walk away.

The part you have bolded is absolutely true. Forget 400 years, just since World War II, (not even counting Hiroshima) Through it's misguided and useless war in South East Asia (very similar to Iraq) US is responsible for killing some 2 Million innocent civilans in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Modern warfare and deadly weapons has made it easy to catch up to even Ghangis Khan of 1000 years ago.

It's not "sujective" to evaluate or compare any more: just count the dead bodies. You will see that there is absolutely no comparison between Iran and US, the Americans have hands-down killed more people by a factor of a few hundred.

A real patriot would not have a problem in acknowledging historical realities, but would nevertheless have hope to continue improving his/her country.

anonymous-man

We can debate history all day long.  It IS subjective, period.  As far as atrocities, no... I'm sorry.  I see slavery as gross civil rights injustice, as was segregation.  What happened to the Native Americans was shameful... of that there is no doubt.  Witch hunts... etc. etc... all terrible things.  But I'm not going to buy one second of "but the US has committed probably just as many if not more atrocities in those 400 years as nations that may be thousands of years old."

Thanks for the debate... I've enjoyed it.  As I said, I respect Iran and Iranians on this site.  I'm not going to sit and trot out every evil or bad thing Iran has done.  I'm not proud of everything America has done but I AM proud to BE an American just as you're surely proud to be Iranian.  Thankfully you have a choice, to live here or not. 

American Wife

Ok now you are talking a bit different...before it was Pilgrims, and yes history can be subjective as you say, but these things did happen as I've stated. Before I was biased, but now you are telling me it more or less depends how I look at it.

Instead let's talk about atrocities of the Americans in it's 400 year history...
1. Slaves being imported from Africa and whipped into submission....forced to change relgions to christianity.
2. Native Americans, who first helped the Colonists in fighting England, killed and massacred.
3. Japanese Americans thrown into camps during WW 2.
4. Segregation until the 1960's.
5. One had only to be accused of being a witch to be hung until death.

In all seriousness, one of the largest atrocities/genocides in history had to be the killing of the Native Americans...yet we never hear that in history class...

We hear words like "Manifest Destiny". What's wrong is wrong whether it is being done now, 40 years ago, a 100 years ago, 5000 years ago. Things like this can't be subjective when they are plain out WRONG!

it's purely subjective

//www.dinsdoc.com/butler-1.htm

It's possible this is where you got your "facts" from and I'll only say again that it's always been a matter of subjective opinion.  History and facts are relative my friend.  You say "tomato" and I say "tomaato".   If I've said it once, I've said it a dozen times.  I'm a guest here and I respect everyone here.  I've never criticized Iran or Iranians.  I'm American and just as proud of that as you are of being Iranian.  American ain't perfect... so far I haven't met anyone or anything who is.  I ask you this... after 400 years of learning and making mistakes, is America a free country with democratic rule? After 2500 years, is Iran?

Anonymous-man

It's true that the first attempt to colonize American was before 1620... John Smith arrived in 1607 to establish a colony in Virginia.  Actually to be perfectly correct, some 50 years before the Pilgrims came there were French colonists who settled in Florida.  It's also true that the English separatists left England for Holland where they prospered for 11 years before immigrating to America.  Whether for "financial" reasons or their desire to establish their "own" nation, is a matter of opinion.  Coming to America "via" Holland hardly disputes the fact that they left England for religious reasons.  I dispute your statement concerning some 50,000 criminals. That reeks of British influence as they always considered America nothing more than a penal settlement.  The majority of "criminals" that WERE deported to America were political prisoners.  And you're absolutely wrong about the date.  The times that you're speaking of was the mid-1770s at the time when Botany Bay was established.

I don't come here "preaching" freedom.  It's a fact jack.  Your comment about America committing more atrocities in 400 years than other nations thousands of years old is the same ole same ole.  A few atrocities I can think of right off are the Romans... the Nazis...Rwanda... etc.

In fact, take a look at this: //users.erols.com/mwhite28/atrox.htm

Ahmadinejad On Larry King Live Tonight!

You can ask him a question here:

//www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.lkl.html

Ye mosht bi gheyrat!

Shame on people who just stand aside watching this.

I bet these are the same people who participate in "stoning" a women!

A HUGE SHAME!

wow! Sarah Palin mentions Iranian Women

If it was not for the comment below by an anonymous, I would have not known about Sarah Palin's stand on Iranian Palin.

I will vote for her just becuase of this stand she took.

I am tired of media concentrating on the "nuclear Iran", we have half of the population under siege and no politician mentions them.

seagul

Hate? Yes, I do! I hate the IR regime, Mullahs, Pasdars, Zeynab sisters and mostly, I hate those who have nice senior governmetal jobs in Iran, those who have their education from imperial era whom act like collaborators of the regime when necessary and privately act as if they are a bunch of civilized Iranians, all because of 1-2 million tomans in mothly salary + health assurance! The real enforcers of the regime! Funny, they send their sons and daughthers to good old Satan US of A! I don't know which category you belong to lady!? The bitch dragging the poor girl is a heyvan-e ensan nema! The list is long ... And I look forward to that day when the trees of Pahalvi avenue are put to proper use!!! No, lady, fix yourself!

And you tough guys and girls on Iranian.com, talk is cheap! Especially, when talking about gheyrat while 10.000 miles a way ...

American Wife

Unfortunately you are mistaken. The basic 5th grade history class will tell you the religious persecution story

Over 10 years before the pilgrims(1620) came to the colonial america and until the American Revolution, England had already transported over 50,000 criminals here.

The basic history classes teach you that Pilgrims escaped from England as they were persecuted, but that is not the case. These Pilgrims, known as separatists, had escaped from England and gone to Holland. In Holland they were allowed to practice their religion freely. So why did they really come here?? It probably had to do with more monetary reasons than relgious reasons.

This is not biased information I am posting...it is simply fact that can be found in any textbook that doesn't contain the story of George Washington chopping down a cherry tree and then saying he can not tell a lie etc etc.

It doesn't matter if you take my word for it or if you think I am biased...history is history...and an Iranian knowing American's history better than an American does is strange don't you think?

The reason I am posting this information, American Wife,is mainly because people like yourself come here and preach about freedom, democracy, liberty, etc etc but how quickly you forget what it was just a few years ago.

Your mentioning the US being only 400 years old and that is true...but the US has committed probably just as many if not more atrocities in those 400 years as nations that may be thousands of years old.

This woman is being dragged

This woman is being dragged by police which is a shame. Now about people standing by, well wasn't there lynching in the 20s and 30s and people not only standing by but cheering?

Okay that was 80 years ago, how about last month when a 70 year old man was hit by a hit and run driver and people stood by and for 5 minutes didn't even bother to call an ambulance?

Get off your freaking I'll step in and do s**t! May Sarah Palin help you with "Iranian women's problems" and your prayers help Sarah Palin.

Only Gov. Sarah Palin has spoke out for Iranian Women

Here is an excerpts of Gov. Palin remark about Iranian people women today. The only American politician who have mentioned Iranian women situation.
"Not even Iranian citizens are safe from their government's threat to those who want to live, work, and worship in peace. Politically-motivated abductions, torture, death by stoning, flogging, and amputations are just some of its state-sanctioned punishments. It is said that the measure of a country is the treatment of its most vulnerable citizens. By that standard, the Iranian government is both oppressive and barbaric. Under Ahmadinejad's rule, Iranian women are some of the most vulnerable citizens. If an Iranian woman shows too much hair in public, she risks being beaten or killed. If she walks down a public street in clothing that violates the state dress code, she could be arrested. But in the face of this harsh regime, the Iranian women have shown courage. Despite threats to their lives and their families, Iranian women have sought better treatment through the "One Million Signatures Campaign Demanding Changes to Discriminatory Laws." The authorities have reacted with predictable barbarism. Last year, women's rights activist Delaram Ali was sentenced to 20 lashes and 10 months in prison for committing the crime of "propaganda against the system." After international protests, the judiciary reduced her sentence to "only" 10 lashes and 36 months in prison and then temporarily suspended her sentence. She still faces the threat of imprisonment."

SHE NEEDS OUR SUPPORT FOR SPEAKING OUT. LETS GIVE CREDIT WHEN CREDIT IS DUE, REGARDLESS OF YOUR POLITICAL IDEOLOGY!

Link: //www.governorpalin.blogspot.com

Anonymous-man

That statement is patently untrue.  The first settlers to American were "pilgrims" from England who came for religious freedom.  They were NOT rejects from England.  In that your first "fact" is so obviously biased, I can hardly pay attention to anything else you say.  There is no doubt that American has suffered her own injustices.  There is no excuse for racism and I would hardly justify those terrible years.  But I might point out to you that America is less than 400 years old.  In that relatively short period of time (as compared to other 2000-3000 year old civilizations) we HAVE progressed.  Our civil rights have moved forward... women's rights have been established...and we live under a democratic rule.  I'm not going to say we're perfect but there's a damn good reason so many people immigrate here... are you one of those lucky few perchance? 

What's The Problem?

I do not see what the fuss is all about here.  According to the female PhD student, Ms. Shirin saeidi, who just returned from Iran after four months of doing regime-friendly "research" in Iran, and interviewing "martyrs'" families there, hejab in Iran is the law and everyone should just follow it like sheep!  Here's the link to her article.  Please red her response to my comment:

 //iranian.com/main/2008/welcome-london-just-kidding

It actually fascinates me that a lot of hardcore IRI apologists and supproters on this site are women (Exhbit "A": Ms. Saeidi)!  How can one be a member of a class that is so discriminated against in Iran in terms of personal freedom and choice, inheretence, child custody, and even marital relationships where your husband can marry multiple wives and then divorce you and take your children away from you, and still support the government that imposes all these laws upon you?  I am not a psychologist, but could this be a collective case of the Stockholm Syndrome wherein the abused becomes a partner of the abuser? 

Listen carefully

Why don't you listen to the lyrics of this song. Give it a chance and listen carefully, if you got ghayrat!

//www.bia2.com/mp3/mp3_player.php?id=220

Maybe IRI is not the problem! where are you? in the US? Germany? listen to the song carefully

Iran doesn't owe you ANYTHING...