Misc

ABC News: Ga. Woman Jailed Over Head Scarf

A Muslim woman arrested for refusing to take off her head scarf at a courthouse security checkpoint said Wednesday that she felt her human and civil rights were violated. A judge ordered Lisa Valentine, 40, to serve 10 days in jail for contempt of court, said police in Douglasville, a city of about 20,000 people on Atlanta's west suburban outskirts.

//current.com/items/89632905/abc_news_ga_woma...

-YT

Mammad

Mammad khan,
Thanks for response. Regarding THAT crowd you mentioned, that is their problem if they can not handle the truth. Beside who gives a rats behind about what they think. Actually sometime its rather fun to see then drown in their own ignorance.

As Abraham Lincoln said, and I am para-phrasing [there is a FOOL born every minute]

Have a great day
-YT

YT

First of all, you have every right to criticize my opinion, if you think you should. I have no problem with being criticized. No one has the exclusive rights to the truth, whatever it may be.

Secondly, there is no reason for you to apologize. You did nothing wrong. It was a misunderstanding; that is all.

Third, we have many many progressive religious people. I can give you a long list of progressive rouhanis.

Fourth, a poll taken secretly, but its results leaked, 4 years ago indicated that over 75% of Rouhaniyat in Iran not only oppose the ruling Rouhanis, but also believe that Rouhaniyat should get out of the business of governing, because what has happened in Iran over the past 30 years has actually damaged and hurt the true spiritual teachings of Islam.

Fifth, I agree with you (and that 75%) that religion and politics do not mix.

Finally, the crowd that thinks you and I and the same do not want you or I comment here.

Mammad

P.S.: Please do not call me Master, as kindly as you may mean it.

Master Mammad

Mr. Mammad,

First and foremost, I owe you an apology IF i sounded confrontational and abrasive. I had NO intentions of criticizing your writing style, nor I had intention of criticizing your opinion.

Sir, you do in fact write very clearly and you express your points very nicely. I gather from the accusations that is made about US, that we are both colleagues.

I have in Fact studied most of these gentlemen, including but not limited to Dr. Shariyati, Dr. Taleghani and even Khomeini's the MOST STUPID RESALEH (now that truly is a disgraceful book). No doubt that during [MASHTORIYAT], Akhunds played a role in the one TRUE revolution we had. And no doubt that there might be some real progressive thinker among real educated akhunds, but I have to say this with all my convictions that religion and politics do not mix.

I categorically am against ANY role of ANY clergy in the government, no matter what religion they represent.

Respectfully
-YT

P/S Mr. Mammad, have you noticed that some of our friends here think that you and I are the same person???? I get quite of laughter about it.

Mr. Anonymous Iran Lover

Mr. A. Iran Lover

there a saying in Farsi ( choob o vardari gorbeh dozeh dar mireh)

TOKEN REP = Uncle Tom(sorry to have used this ugly term)
Do u know what it means? so when you call him TOKEN, I take exception to it, and if you u do not like it when I defend him, tough luck my friend. BTW I am Muslim myself and I do not know the gentleman.

Second point, there is a HUGE difference between BRUTALITY and DISCRIMINATION. If you do not agree with it, again tough luck.

Last point, do not drag me into your games with anyone else. I am not here to seek social support for my convictions nor I am here to brag about anything I might have done for MY motherland. The only reason I have started posting on Iranian.com is to express my views and opinion, at the same time TRY and learn things that I do not know.

I do not come here to change anybody's mind on any issue, so save your breath in trying to ARGUE with me just to have ARGUED. And spare me the name callings, it does not work with me dude.

Have a wonderful day
-YT

YT

Either I do not write clearly, or you have a special way of reading English. As far as I can tell and other people tell me, I write reasonably clearly. Therefore, I can only conclude that you do not read things the way they are clearly meant to, rather the way you like them to be. I must also add that you are not the only one who does that.

I was not even talking about Rouhaniyat in the Government. I was saying that in the system that the reactionaries have set up in Iran, discrimination is based on being "khodi" against being "gheyr-e khodi." Therefore, even a person like Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, who had a very important leadership role in the Revolution and was for a long time Deputy Leader, was kicked out of the circle of "khodi haa," simply because he protested the high power's brutal and criminal treatment of political prisoners. Ayatollah Montazeri has taken many many courageous positions, simply due to his honesty.

In my opinion, we should judge people based on what they believe in and what they do, i.e., their words and deed, rather than based on whether they have a turban or not. Therefore, yes, there is such a thing as a good rouhani, just as there is such a thing as secular fundamentalist, Christian fundamentalist, Jewish fundamentalist, Hindu fundamentalist, Islamic fundamentalist, etc.

In Iran's Constitutional Revolution of 1905-1907, the rouhaniyat played an important role. Those who played a positive role were on the people's side, such as Ayatollahs Tabatabaei and Behbahani, and those who played a negative role were on the dictatorship side, such as Ayatollah Fazlollah Nouri. Today, Dr. Mohsend Kadivar, for example, is a good, modern-thinking rouhani who is against Velaayat-e Faghih and dictatorship, while many other rouhanis are for it, either out of conviction or due to opportunism.

But, the question of good vs bad rouhani is INDEPENDENT of their participation in the government. I am only talking about schools of thoughts among them.

AnonymousIran Lover:

I agree with you that it should not matter whether we have 100 Jews in Iranian parliament, or 1. I was only talking about the realities in Iran.

Mammad

Mr. YT

Its seems to me that you have very confusing messages about the IRI. When it comes to the West, you defend their actions and when Iranians on this site criticize it, you try to play some kind of a middle man.

I do agree with all your statement about how woman in the IRI are brutalized and all the rest about discrimination existing in other places....... However THIS WAS NOT THE ISSUE SIR.

Again, and now for the 3rd time: AntiIRI, who I have absolutely have no relation with wrote a post below about discrimination in the IRI. You responded to the post by not answering the question but by copying and pasting some article about Iranian Jews saying that they don't have many problems in the IRI. You also posted your own little disclaimer.

The question is would the sole representative of IRI's jews be completely honest about how the Jews are treated in the IRI? Would he dare to say that the Sharia rulings concerning jews and other minorities (and ALL Muslims) are a bunch of bullshit? Do you understand me? Why answer AntiIRI's question with posting such a stupid article? Its as if you are saying, "oh the situation of some minorities is not that bad in the IRI look what the Jewish member of Majles is saying about their situation in the IRI". That is the inference your response gives the reader.

Then you make this retarded statement:
"It seems to me that these gentlemen value well being of 25,000 Jews over SAFETY and preservation of our 32,522,598 Iranian WOMEN. I stress again(needlessly) that discrimination in any shape or form is totally and categorically wrong. But one must open their eyes and minds and see the difference in treatment of Jews and WOMEN.

WOMEN in Iran are not discriminated against , they are targeted for HUMILIATION, BRUTAL PHYSICAL ATTACKS, BODILY HARM, LOSS OF LIFE, RAPE, BELITTLEMENT to say the least. What is your priorities gentlemen? A mere discrimination cases in job place(no punt intended) for Jewish community or LIVES of 32,522,598 Iranian WOMEN?????? And where does your loyalties lie gentlemen???? It is not so difficult to see this is it??"

WHAT? What the hell are you talking about? Again, I was not complaining or commenting about the treatment of Jews in Iran as opposed to treatment of woman in Iran under the IRI. I was complaining about your response to AntiIRI. I agree with your assessment of how woman are treated by the IRI but what does it have to do with my comment to you? Can you tell me?

Then you make this outrageous comment: "These gentlemen even go as far as belittling their own kind by LABELING Jewish Parliamentary Member as TOKEN"

What I said to Mammad was:
"Representation of a token Jew, Armenian or whatever in the IRI does not mean a damn thing"

How with your reasoning and logic do you come to the conclusion that I am belittling my "kind" for this statement? What is my "kind"? How do you know my "Kind". I am Iranian. What are you? Why can't there be 100 Jewish members or Armenian members in the Majles if they qualify and can get votes? Why just 1 or 2 or 3 for each group?

Did you read the Wiki article about the jews in Iran that I copied for you? In 1979, Our Jewish hamvatans were maybe 0.3% of the population but out of Iran's 10,000 doctors, 600 were Jewish. Why do Jews, Armeninas, Zarosterians or any group (including Muslims) needs to have their religious background as a criteria for having political representation? The IRI constitution is idiotic since it can not and does not protect minorities it can not protect the majority.

Let me make it clear to you, I don't care if the Jewish representative in the IRI Majles is Einstein. He would still be a token Jew because of the IRI system. I was not commenting on Dr. Ciamak Morsadegh or belittling him. I was commenting on the stupid system. You could have 50 jews in the Majles, 500 woman in the Majless and 1000 Sunnis in the Majles, as long as the Sharia rules over them and as long as whatever they due can be overruled by an Akhoond above them- they are all "token". This was my point to Mammad because he stated that the Muslims are the largest group being discriminated against. So please do not put words in my mouth.

Stop making childish accusations and respond to AntiIRI instead of copying and pasting stupid articles that you know have no relation to facts on the ground in the IRI.

P.S., Mammad was not stating that "Akhoonds" should be in the government. He was stating that Montazeri is a victim of these Aholes. Why are you putting words in Mammad's mouth as well? Is this a habit of yours?

Mr. YT

You are putting words in my mouth. I am busy right now and can't respond. I will make sure to respond to your post and show you once again why you are ignorant my Hamvatan. You either don't realize what you do and say or don't realize what I was telling you. I am sure that you Do not get it!

Master Mammad......Good Akhund??

Master Mammad,

History of mankind has proven time and time again that any time one MIXES religion and politics of leading a country only outcome will spell DISASTER. Prime example being the Dark ages in Europe, and current situation in Iran.

As it is for rest of the faiths and countries around the globe, people of Iran identify with their religion, whether Muslim, Jew, Christian, Bahie, and so on and so forth.

With these points in mind, although a Muslim myself, but I have to disagree with your point being having Akhunds in government. No matter how progressive they might be, history has proven that religion running a country brings about total disaster, as we can see the plight of people of Iran. Religion MUST be kept out of government all together if eventual prosperity, modernization, and success of Iran as a nation is desired.

Rule of Akhunds in Iran has been through oppression, suppression of all minorities SPECIALLY WOMEN, and brutal suppression of any form of freedom and any kind of Human dignity, which is in TOTAL contrast to true teaching of ISLAM. Teaching of these Akhunds has been nothing more than superstition to say the least. Designed to suppress FREEDOM and bread bigotry and injustice, by imposing their extremist agenda on nation of Iran.

Only feasible answer for Iran is a NON-RELIGIOUS republic of [By the People and For the People]

Lets give Akhunds their own country to run: GHUM, or maybe [Namakzare Lutte]. Bit of sarcasm there, I know ;) but they have to pay taxes.

Have a great Monday
-YT

Narrow Vission

It is astonishing to me how some of us posses such a narrow vision in life that prevents us from seeing [FOREST FOR THE TREES]. Allow me to give you a bit of information about Iran's demographics:

Total Population: 65,875,224 (July 2008 est.)

Population by Gender: Male 50.6% Female 49.4%

Religions: Muslim 98% (Shia 89%, Sunni 9%), other (includes Zoroastrian, Jewish, Christian, and Baha'i) 2%

Ethnic groups: Persian 51%, Azeri 24%, Gilaki and Mazandarani 8%, Kurd 7%, Arab 3%, Lur 2%, Baloch 2%, Turkmen 2%, other 1%
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world...

It is an undeniable FACT that discrimination exist in Iran, as it has for centuries, and as it exist in rest of the WORLD. To mention few, United States(KKK, Skinheads), Germany(Neo Nazi, Skinheads), UK ....and even in Israel. Point I have been trying to make with gentlemen of the [NAME CALLERS AND LABELE'RS] has been that yes there is discrimination against Jews and religious minorities(done deal) however, what has been done to WOMEN is not discrimination IT is BRUTALITY.

What disturbs me the most is that these gentlemen do not realize the difference between discrimination in work place and such (against Jews, Christians and etc.) and BRUTALITY, RAPES, BEATING and IMPRISONMENT against WOMEN.

It seems to me that these gentlemen value well being of 25,000 Jews over SAFETY and preservation of our 32,522,598 Iranian WOMEN. I stress again(needlessly) that discrimination in any shape or form is totally and categorically wrong. But one must open their eyes and minds and see the difference in treatment of Jews and WOMEN.

WOMEN in Iran are not discriminated against , they are targeted for HUMILIATION, BRUTAL PHYSICAL ATTACKS, BODILY HARM, LOSS OF LIFE, RAPE, BELITTLEMENT to say the least. What is your priorities gentlemen? A mere discrimination cases in job place(no punt intended) for Jewish community or LIVES of 32,522,598 Iranian WOMEN?????? And where does your loyalties lie gentlemen???? It is not so difficult to see this is it??

These gentlemen even go as far as belittling their own kind by LABELING Jewish Parliamentary Member as TOKEN. Gentlemen, I have a bit of news for you. Dr. Ciamak Morsadegh, is one of the most prestigious, respected and renowned physicians in Iran. He has devoted his life for the betterment of welfare and well being of his Jewish community. Dr. Ciamak Morsadegh, despite all the odds against him, has done more for the cause of Jewish community in ONE DAY than you and kinds of you will ever do in your entire lives. Yet you so shamelessly, belittle him by calling him a TOKEN member of Parliament. I find this form of labeling utterly ignorant.

More disturbing fact is that you gentlemen call, from top of your lungs, for BOOMING of Iran? What kind of faith gives you this much compassion towards your fellow countrymen and fellow human being??? Funniest thing is that in the same breath when you call for booming of Iran and ERADICATION of Muslims, you call all the Muslims terrorist, which is an utter and ugly form of hypocrisy. Your intolerance of Muslims, hatred toward Iran and Iranians, and your double standards about well being of Iranian WOMEN borderlines LUNACY to say the least.

Is this your interpretation of [LOVE THY NEIGHBOR]??

Do you GET it gentlemen???
Have a wonderful day
-YT

The Video Has Been Removed

Can it be re-posted, or is it taken off of YouTube?

Dear Bijan aziz

I am not sure why are you so worried.

Let this IRI supporters say whatever they want to.

Majority of Iranian people already have recognized the IRI regime and all their supporters, there is no such a thing as a good or bad IRI supporter. Like there is no such a thing as good or bad Nazi.

IRI and their supporters will be identified and brought to justice. Same goes for the ones who live in this country and are hiding amongst us.

If you go to the mosques you'll see these Iranians who have allegiance to IRI.

Some also teach at universities or have businesses here but they are clearly IRI agents spying on ex-pats here in USA.

IRI days are just numbered.

Why is it so hard for me to shut up?.....

I had promised myself to stay out for a while. But, when I read Mammad’s post I thought it would be against all principles if I don’t speak my mind.

I may be way off, but what I think Mammad is saying is that the right wing akhoond is evil but we should not condemn all akhoonds. There are some who are open minded and it would be wrong to think about separation of church and state.

According to Mammad, we need to get rid of some elements of IRI. It would be an atrocity if we think of a state outside of a Shiat Islam beliefs.

It remains a mystery, how YT and Mammad’s comments follow each other after my post suggesting that they are one and the same…

I promise to shut-up from now on……

Foregive'em Lord

Foregive them Lord for they Dont see the forest for the trees.!

AnonymousIran Lover & Iranian Jew

Your points are well taken, and I agree with most of what you said. I never meant that there has not been any discriminations against my Iranian Jewish compatriots. Of course, there have been.

As I emphasized, I only meant what I said in a comparative way, namely, the IRI, or the right wing of it, has discriminated against Muslims far worse than any other religious or minority group. It discriminates against Muslims based on its own reactionary interpretations of Islamic teachings and has divided people into two groups: "Khodi" and "gheyr-e khodi." Now, that is, in my opinion, the ultimate discrimination, because it says you either THINK like "me" or accept what "I" believe in, in which case you are "in," or you do not, in which case not only are you "out," but will also be discriminated against. Just look at the Special Court for the Clergy. Let me also add that we do have, or had in the past, such discriminations poracticed in other religions.

Aside from the political prisoners that have been executed, just look at all the people whom I consider good - excellent - Muslims who were or are discriminated against - thinkers and Islamic intellectuals who have presented an enlightened interpretation of Islamic teachings and have said that religion should not interfere with politics, from Dr. Mohsen Kadivar, to Hassan Yousefi Eshkevari, Dr. Hashem Aghajari, Emad Baghi, Hadi Ghabel, ......

Even Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri - whom even the reactionary right concedes to be the highest authority of Islamic "Feghh" - has not escaped the right's wrath. He was again attacked recently for speaking against the Government, and for saying rightfully - and I must add courageously given Iran's internal situation - that our Bahai compatriots, as Iranian citizens, must not be discriminated against. His spokesman, Hojatoleslam Lotfi, was given a four year sentence and, worst of all, banned for 5 years from WRITING!

I tell you a story about Ayatollah Montazeri to see what a good man he is. A few years ago, while in Iran, I went to Ghom to see him. I really wanted to meet him in person. Through a friend I got to see him. In addition to be most courteous and kind, he surprised me when I asked him a question. I asked him, what happens if a Muslim leaves Islam and converts to another religion or no religion at all? He said, "nothing; he/she has done it with knowledge, and that is enough." The surprise to me was his open mindedness.

Now, when I say the IRI, or its right wing, discriminates against Muslims far worse than any other group, that is how I mean it.

Mammad

Iranian Feminist in LA and supporters of IRI

To those who pretend are feminist and then come here and support IRI, I recommend to watch two movies made by IRI.

It depicts the clear picture of how women in Iran are treated under IRI system. Since you are used to watching movies and not reading books or news, so to better educate yourself and to show

Movie name:

Offside
Border Cafe

Both sad movies, humiliating and embarrassing.

This is awesome, IRI thugs must feel lucky

pretty soon with oil at $25 a barrel will habituate IRI thugs and their blood sucking leader including seyyed ali geda to a concept called massive boot in behind by iranian nation. the day of reckoning is nearing.

Dear Mammad

I agree with you that discrimination must be condemned against all and that no minority or religion should be treated above others but your statement which states "Outside Israel and the US, Jews have never ever had it better than what they had, and still do, in Iran, at least compared to their Muslim compatriots......

is just not true.

Do you know what happened to the Mashadi Jews in the past 100 years alone? Have you ever heard of forced conversion of jews in the last 100 years in any of the Arab countries?

I would say Iran is top 10 maybe but no way top 3 as you suggest. Please look at the history of Jews in Morocco (amazing tolerance), India, Turkey and other Sunni Muslim lands.

Dear Mammad

Mammad,

I agree with you regarding the discrimination of Muslims in the IRI. You are 100% correct. Representation of a token Jew, Armenian or whatever in the IRI does not mean a damn thing. I also agree with you that discrimination must be condemned against all regardless of religious background.

However, this was not my point to YT. Now I am being tag teamed by to Iranian Lefty Wrestling Champions:)))))

As to your assertion that Iran was No 3 for jews to live in outside US & Israel, I did a wiki search and found the article below. Please read it as I found it very interesting. Do you still stand by your assertion?

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_i...

Early Islamic period (634 to 1255)

After the Islamic conquest of Persia, Jews, along with Christians and Zoroastrians, were assigned the status of dhimmis, inferior subjects of the Islamic empire. Dhimmis were allowed to practice their religion, but were forced to pay taxes (jizya, a poll tax, and initially also kharaj, a land tax) in favor of the Arab Muslim conquerors. Dhimmis were also required to submit to a number of social and legal disabilities; they were prohibited from bearing arms, riding horses, testifying in courts in cases involving a Muslim, and frequently required to wear clothings, clearly distinguishing them from Muslims. Although some of these restrictions were sometimes relaxed, the overall condition of inequality remained in force until the Mongol invasion.[8]

In 1255, Mongols led by Hulagu Khan began a charge on Persia, and in 1257 they captured Baghdad, thus ending the Abbasid caliphate. In Persia and surrounding areas, the Mongols established a division of the Mongol Empire known as Ilkhanate. Because in Ilkhanate all religions were considered equal, Mongol rulers abolished the unequal status of the dhimmiclasses. One of the Ilkhanate rulers, Arghun Khan, even preferred Jews and Christians for the administrative positions and appointed Sa'd al-Daula, a Jew, as his vizier. The appointment, however, provoked resentment from the Muslim clergy, and after Arghun's death in 1291, al-Daula was murdered and Persian Jews suffered a period of violent clergy-instigated persecutions from the Muslim populace. The contemporary Christian historian Bar Hebraeus wrote that the violence committed against the Jews during that period "neither tongue can utter, nor the pen write down".[9]

Ghazan Khan's conversion to Islam in 1295 heralded for Persian Jews a pronounced turn for the worse, as they were once again relegated to the status of dhimmis. Öljeitü, Ghazan Khan's successor, pressured some Jews to convert to Islam. The most famous such convert was Rashid al-Din, a physician, historian and statesman, who adopted Islam in order to advance his career at Öljeitü's court. However, in 1318 he was executed on fake charges of poisoning Öljeitü and for several days crowds had been carrying his head around his native city of Tabriz, chanting "This is the head of the Jew who abused the name of God; may God's curse be upon him!" About 100 years later, Miranshah destroyed Rashid al-Din's tomb, and his remains were reburied at the Jewish cemetery. Rashid al-Din's case illustrates a pattern that differentiated the treatment of Jewish converts in Persia from their treatment in other Muslim lands, except North Africa. In most Muslim countries, converts were welcomed and easily assimilated into the Muslim population. In Persia, however, Jewish converts were usually stigmatized on account of their Jewish ancestry for many generations.[9][10]

[edit] Safavid and Qajar dynasties (1502 to 1925)
Hamedan Jews in 1918.

Further deterioration in the treatment of Persian Jews occurred during the reign of the Safavids who proclaimed Shi'a Islam the state religion. Shi'ism assigns great importance to the issues of ritual purity ― tahara, and non-Muslims, including Jews, are deemed to be ritually unclean ― najis ― so that physical contact with them would require Shi'as to undertake ritual purification before doing regular prayers. Thus, Persian rulers, and to an even larger extent, the populace, sought to limit physical contact between Muslims and Jews. Jews were not allowed to attend public baths with Muslims or even to go outside in rain or snow, ostensibly because some impurity could be washed from them upon a Muslim.[11]

The reign of Shah Abbas I (1588–1629) was initially benign; Jews prospered throughout Persia and were even encouraged to settle in Isfahan, which was made a new capital. However, toward the end of his rule, the treatment of Jews became harsher; upon advice from a Jewish convert and Shi'a clergy, the shah forced Jews to wear a distinctive badge on clothing and headgear. In 1656, all Jews were expelled from Isfahan because of the common belief of their impurity and forced to convert to Islam. However, as it became known that the converts continued to practice Judaism in secret and because the treasury suffered from the loss of jizya collected from the Jews, in 1661 they were allowed to revert to Judaism, but were still required to wear a distinctive patch upon their clothings.[9]

Under Sunni Muslim Nadir Shah (1736–1747), who abolished Shi'a Islam as state religion, Jews experienced a period of relative tolerance when they were allowed to settle in the Shi'ite holy city of Mashhad. Yet, the advent of a Shi'a Qajar dynasty in 1794 brought back the earlier persecutions. In the middle of the 19th century, J. J. Benjamin wrote about the life of Persian Jews: "…they are obliged to live in a separate part of town…; for they are considered as unclean creatures… Under the pretext of their being unclean, they are treated with the greatest severity and should they enter a street, inhabited by Mussulmans, they are pelted by the boys and mobs with stones and dirt… For the same reason, they are prohibited to go out when it rains; for it is said the rain would wash dirt off them, which would sully the feet of the Mussulmans… If a Jew is recognized as such in the streets, he is subjected to the greatest insults. The passers-by spit in his face, and sometimes beat him… unmercifully… If a Jew enters a shop for anything, he is forbidden to inspect the goods… Should his hand incautiously touch the goods, he must take them at any price the seller chooses to ask for them... Sometimes the Persians intrude into the dwellings of the Jews and take possession of whatever please them. Should the owner make the least opposition in defense of his property, he incurs the danger of atoning for it with his life... If... a Jew shows himself in the street during the three days of the Katel (Muharram)…, he is sure to be murdered."[12]
Iranian Jews actively took part in the Persian Constitutional Revolution. Seen here is a Jewish gathering celebrating the second anniversary of the Constitutional Revolution in Tehran.

Lord Curzon described the regional differences in the situation of the Persian Jews in 19th century: "In Isfahan, where they are said to be 3,700 and where they occupy a relatively better status than elsewhere in Persia, they are not permitted to wear kolah or Persian headdress, to have shops in the bazaar, to build the walls of their houses as high as a Moslem neighbour's, or to ride in the street. In Teheran and Kashan they are also to be found in large numbers and enjoying a fair position. In Shiraz they are very badly off. In Bushire they are prosperous and free from persecution."[13]

Another European traveller reported a degrading ritual to which Jews were subjected for public amusement:

At every public festival — even at the royal salaam [salute], before the King’s face — the Jews are collected, and a number of them are flung into the hauz or tank, that King and mob may be amused by seeing them crawl out half-drowned and covered with mud. The same kindly ceremony is witnessed whenever a provincial governor holds high festival: there are fireworks and Jews.[14]

In the 19th century there were many instances of forced conversions and massacres, usually inspired by the Shi'a clergy. A representative of the Alliance Israélite Universelle, a Jewish humanitarian and educational organization, wrote from Tehran in 1894: "…every time that a priest wishes to emerge from obscurity and win a reputation for piety, he preaches war against the Jews".[15] In 1830, the Jews of Tabriz were massacred; the same year saw a forcible conversion of the Jews of Shiraz. In 1839, many Jews were massacred in Mashhad and survivors were forcibly converted. However, European travellers later reported that the Jews of Tabriz and Shiraz continued to practice Judaism in secret despite a fear of further persecutions. Jews of Barforush were forcibly converted in 1866; when they were allowed to revert to Judaism thanks to an intervention by the French and British ambassadors, a mob killed 18 Jews of Barforush, burning two of them alive.[16][17] In 1910, the Jews of Shiraz were accused of ritually murdering a Muslim girl. Muslim dwellers of the city plundered the whole Jewish quarter, the first to start looting were the soldiers sent by the local governor to defend the Jews against the enraged mob. Twelve Jews, who tried to defend their property, were killed, and many others were injured.[18] Representatives of the Alliance Israélite Universelle recorded other numerous instances of persecution and debasement of Persian Jews.[19]

Driven by persecutions, thousands of Persian Jews emigrated to Palestine in the late 19th – early 20th century.[20]

[edit] Pahlavi dynasty (1925 to 1979)

The Pahlavi dynasty implemented modernizing reforms, which greatly improved the life of Jews (Charles Recknagel and Azam Gorgin of Radio Free Europe). The influence of the Shi'a clergy was weakened, and the restrictions on Jews and other religious minorities were abolished.[21] Reza Shah prohibited mass conversion of Jews and eliminated the Shi'ite concept of uncleanness of non-Muslims. Modern Hebrew was incorporated into the curriculum of Jewish schools and Jewish newspapers were published. Jews were also allowed to hold government jobs.[9] However, Jewish schools were closed in 1920s. In addition, Reza Shah sympathized with Nazi Germany, making the Jewish community fearful of possible persecutions, and the public sentiment at the time was definitely anti-Jewish[21][10].

A spike in anti-Jewish sentiment occurred after the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 and continued until 1953 due to the weakening of the central government and strengthening of the clergy in the course of political struggles between the shah and prime minister Mohammad Mossadegh. Eliz Sanasarian estimates that in 1948–1953, about one-third of Iranian Jews, most of them poor, emigrated to Israel.[22] David Littman puts the total figure of emigrants to Israel in 1948-1978 at 70,000.[20]

The reign of shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi after the deposition of Mossadegh in 1953, was the most prosperous era for the Jews of Iran. In 1970s, only 10 percent of Iranian Jews were classified as impoverished; 80 percent were middle class and 10 percent wealthy. Although Jews accounted for only a small percentage of Iran's population, in 1979 two of the 18 members of the Iranian Academy of Sciences, 80 of the 4,000 university lecturers, and 600 of the 10,000 physicians in Iran were Jews.[22]

Prior to the Islamic Revolution in 1979, there were 80,000 Jews in Iran, concentrated in Teheran (60,000), Shiraz (8,000), Kermanshah (4,000), Isfahan (3,000), the cities of Khuzistan, as well as Kashan, Tabriz, and Hamedan.

During the Islamic Revolution many of the Iranian Muslims, especially wealthy Muslim leaders in Tehran and many Muslim villages surrounding Esfahan and Kerman converted to leave the country once known for its love for the Jewish society. In late 1979s, the people whom converted was estimated at 50,000–90,000.

Prior to the independence of Israel in 1948, Urmia was home to 700 Aramaic-speaking Jewish families. As of 2006, only two sisters remain.

[edit] Islamic republic (since 1979)

At the time of the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948, there were approximately 140,000–150,000 Jews living in Iran, the historical center of Persian Jewry. Over 85% have since migrated to either Israel or the United States, with the migration accelerating after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, when the population dropped from 100,000 to about 40,000.[23] On March 16, 1979, Habib Elghanian, the honorary leader of the Jewish community, was arrested on charges of "corruption", "contacts with Israel and Zionism", "friendship with the enemies of God", "warring with God and his emissaries", and "economic imperialism". He was tried by an Islamic revolutionary tribunal, sentenced to death, and executed on May 8,[20][24] one of 17 Iranian Jews executed as spies since the revolution.[25]

Estimates of the Jewish population in Iran vary. In mid- and late 1980s, it was estimated at 20,000–30,000, rising to around 35,000 in mid-1990s,[26] and estimated at less than 40,000 nowadays, with around 25,000 residing in Tehran. However, Iran's Jewish community still remains the largest in the Middle East outside of Israel. [23]

Opinion over the condition of Jews in Iran is divided. One Jew active in arguing on behalf of a benevolence view of the Iranian Islamic government and society toward Jews is film producer Haroun Yashyaei, who tells visitors and reporters the Ayatollah "Ruhollah Khomeini didn't mix up our community with Israel and Zionism," and "Take it from me, the Jewish community here faces no difficulties."[23] Privately many Jews complain to foreign reporters of "discrimination, much of it of a social or bureaucratic nature." The Islamic government appoints the officials who run Jewish schools, most of these being Muslims and requires that those schools must open on Saturdays, the Jewish Sabbath. Criticism of this policy was the downfall of the last remaining newspaper of the Iranian Jewish community which was closed in 1991 after it criticized government control of Jewish schools.[27]

[edit] Further decline of Iran-Israel relations and Holocaust denial

Main articles: Iran-Israel relations, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel, International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust, and International Holocaust Cartoon Competition

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and members of the Iranian government have resorted to threats against the State of Israel and in Holocaust denial that have added to the precarious nature and insecurity of Iran's small remaining Jewish community.

Ahmadinejad levels charges such as "The Zionist regime is seeking baseless pretexts to invade Islamic countries and right now it is justifying its attacks with groundless excuses," he added.[28] On Aug 3rd, 2006, in a speech during an emergency meeting of Muslim leaders, Ahmadinejad called for "the elimination of the Zionist regime". While some media outlets immediately interpreted his words as another threat to "destroy Israel", [29][30][31] such interpretations have again been challenged.[32] In the speech, Ahmadinejad said, "although the main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime, at this stage an immediate cease-fire must be implemented". He stated that the Middle East would be better off "without the existence of the Zionist regime". He called Israel an "illegitimate regime" with "no legal basis for its existence" and accused the United States of using Israel as a proxy to control the region and its oil resources; "The Zionist regime is used to reach this objective. The sole existence of this regime is for invasion and attack."

The International Holocaust Cartoon Competition (2006) was a cartoon contest sponsored by the conservative Iranian newspaper Hamshahri, to denounce what it called 'Western hypocrisy on freedom of speech'. The International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust (2006) was a two-day conference that opened on December 11, 2006 in Tehran, Iran. The Iranian Foreign Minister, Manouchehr Mottaki, said the conference sought "neither to deny nor prove the Holocaust ... [but] to provide an appropriate scientific atmosphere for scholars to offer their opinions in freedom about a historical issue."[33] The 67 attendees from 30 countries [34][35] included Yisroel Dovid Weiss of Neturei Karta; David Duke, former Republican member of the Louisiana House of Representatives and Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, Austrian Jew Moshe Aryeh Friedman and Holocaust deniers Robert Faurisson and Fredrick Töben.

Young Man YT

Your question:

"show me what part of my comment and opinion gave you the ludicrous idea that:

1. I am allegedly justifying IRI action
2. I am allegedly condoning discrimination against any minority group
3. That I am allegedly a [Lefty...."

My Answer,

AntiIRI asked specific questions about the treatment of minorities and you came with your posting of the article instead of answering the questions. Now talk about "ignorant". To try to make it appear that minorities are somehow treated fairly/not so bad/or minimize it by posting an interview from a jewish member of the IRI Majles (and a little disclaimer) instead of answering the question is not only ignorance but arrogance. Arrogance to to think we would fall for such stupidity.

AnonymousIran Lover

The discrimination against our Bahai compatriots has been absolutely terrible. No one with a iota of fairness and open mind would dispute that.

But discrimination against Jews or Armenians? Come on! Let's talk about discrimination against MUSLIMS in Iran. How many political prisoners were executed in Iran during the 1980s? Perhaps anywhere between 30,000 and 50,000. How many of them were Jews? May be 1 or 2, at most. How many of them were Armenian? As far as I know, 2-3 at most, and they were communist (I mean they were not killed because they were Armenian). So, if this is supposed to be shared sufferage under the same regime, where is their part, proportionally speaking?

Every 100,000 Muslims in Iran has one Majles deputy,  but Jews, Armenians, and other minorities, as tiny as they are, get one each; the same was the case during the Shah.

Outside Israel and the US, Jews have never ever had it better than what they had, and still do, in Iran, at least compared to their Muslim compatriots, unless, of course, we think that Iranian Jews are "taafteh-e jodaa baafteh" and a separate set of standards applies to them. 

Discrimination must be condemned against ALL, REGARDLESS of who they are. But, the cries of "discriminations" against Iranian Jews and Christians, when we recognize what has happened to Iranian MUSLIMS in the same nation and during the same period of time, are not credible, at least comparatively speaking. 

Mammad

AnonymousIran Lover,,,,

Yet another cheap and childish branding. Yet another name calling and rude innuendo. Yet another ignorant IMAGINARY personal vendetta.

Young man, before you demonstrate your narcissistic self-appreciation, and rude and arrogant branding of people behind the comments, and before you so valiantly demonstrating how oblivion and illiterate you are to the comments of ladies and gentlemen of the writers, and to the world as a whole, I suggest that you READ my post carefully and READ the entire interview. And show me what part of my comment and opinion gave you the ludicrous idea that:

1. I am allegedly justifying IRI action
2. I am allegedly condoning discrimination against any minority group
3. That I am allegedly a [Lefty]

And sir if you think YOU calling me the names I am NOT will make any difference in who I am, you have some learning to do.

Have a good day
-YT

Nice try Mr. YT

Are you a lawyer or something? After this BS article about IRI's Jews you sneak in your disclaimer:

"** Disclaimer** posting this article by no mean should be construed as justification for IRI barbaric actions."

Than why the hell do you post it? You know the real answer! Why do you try to white wash it?

What do you expect from these Iranian Jewish leaders? Do you expect them to say the Hell with Velayateh Fagih? You well know how they feel and you are well aware that if they express their true opinion they will be brutally suppressed. The only thing that is going for them is the fact that Sharia recognizes them as "the people of the book". Great. Thanks to a inhumane code of laws called the Sharia, the Jews can practice their religion under the IRI.

As an example of discrimination against jews, and other minority groups in IRI, is a member of the group converts to Islam, they will get the inheritence over their non converted family members. Their testimony is not worth as much in court and blood money is not worth as much. Jewish schools have to be monitered by a Muslim at all times.

YT, I understand that you have leftist leanings, but these are the type of arguments by you leftists that allows people to label you as IRI/Islamists supporters. Just the inferences you try to make by this garbage IRI propaganda is enough YT! As far as I am concerned, no matter how much you deny it, the effect of such postings by you make you an IRI/Islamist supporter.

antiIRI

Mr. antiIRI,

You say and I quote:
[2. Do we all agree that IRI regime discriminates, humiliates and belittles against Iranian Bahais, Iranian Jews and other religious minorities as well as ethnic minorities in Iran?]

I came across this article in EJP[European Jewish Press] which I thought might be of an interest to you and to other Jewsih friends....

[...Jewish community in Iran has ‘no major problems’, says Jewish MP Dr. Ciamak Morsadegh,
by: Yossi Lempkowicz Updated: 06/Nov/2008 15:20

BRUSSELS (EJP)---A Jewish Iranian parliamentarian, on a visit to the European Parliament this week , said Iran’s Jewish community doesn’t face major problems today and stressed that Iranian President Ahmadinejad’s statements on the Holocaust “are not shared by other leaders in the country.”..... ]

[.....Ciamak Morsadegh is a member of a delegation of 5 MPs from Majlis, Iran’s parliament, who held two days of talks in the European Parliament in Brussels as part of an interparliamentary meeting.

In an interview with EJP, Morsadegh pointed out that with 25,000 people, the Jewish community of Iran is the largest in the Middle East, after Israel.
“We are living in a religious country as a religious minority. Of course we have some problems. I don’t want to say that everything is ok. But at this moment we don’t have major problems.Our day-to-day conditions are improving and our situation is now more stable and better than it was in the early years of the Iranian revolution when Jews and Muslims weren’t equal,” the 42-year-old physician who was elected in the Majlis as an independent candidate
He is a member of the parliament's health committee....]

[...He conceded that young Jews have problems with finding a job in governmental offices but also elsewhere due to the economic situation. “It is not impossible to find a job in public offices but it’s rather more difficult for Jews than for Muslims. “Even myself, I had the possibility to be employed as an associate professor in a governmental university but the conditions for me were harder than for a Muslim.”...]

** Disclaimer** posting this article by no mean should be construed as justification for IRI barbaric actions.

As to your other points, particularly plight of women in Iran, and elsewhere for that fact, it is an UNDENIABLE TRUTH that women, specifically and brutally are targeted by IRI thugs in order for the regime to exert POWER over them, and society as a whole.

I invite you to read prior posts by ladies and gentlemen of the blog in regards to this subject.

You say: [..I personally believe through referendum...]

As we have seen time and time again, during these past 30 years of brutality, suppression, war, economic hardship, and total social injustice, these IRI thugs(to say the least) will not relinquish the power through peaceful means of REFERENDUM or will they???

My thoughts are that they will NOT. Although I consider myself an avid proponent of [peaceful resolution] to any social and political discontent, but I do not see any mean other than [UNIFIED, ORGANIZED and ARMED] solution to the issue.

With that said, my question is: Do we have any organized grassroots movement and an unified leadership with enough majority consensus in place to achieve this monumental goal???

Regards.......
-YT

IRAN-khanoom….

I am posting this just for the sake of clarification and not to engage in any argument. I have never claimed mastery in speaking or writing English, even after over 30 years in the US and being an educated person. My posts are full of grammatical errors and many times weak in their vocabulary, but, I believe they are clear enough to get my point across. I have already admitted that you and many, many other posters are significantly more fluent in writing on this site.

Reading through my post I agree that “aroused” was probably not the right word. It should have been “riled up” or “excited”. I think it was quite obvious as some posters pointed that out. The other incident that you highlighted is another example of your misunderstanding. BTW, you didn’t let that go. You immediately came back with a threatening post which was deleted by the moderators soon after your posting. In the phrase you posted my intent was “suck up to” and not “suck”. I realized my error but unfortunately at that time the site did not allow editing of my own post and the entire blog including all the comments were deleted shortly after that.

I have never resented your fluency in English or that of Mammad, Kaveh, Jamshid, Marge,…and many others. But, what I resent with passion is your attitude, your arrogance, your sense of righteousness and belittling of those who have a different opinion.

With all due respect…

IRI regime and its crime against its own people

let me ask you all these questions. Let us not even discuss the Israeli or Palestinian factor and the regime's support of terrorists organizations. Let us just speak about Iran and Iranian people.

1. Do we all agree that IRI regime has committed crimes against Iranian people?
2. Do we all agree that IRI regime discriminates, humiliates and belittles against Iranian Bahais, Iranian Jews and other religious minorities as well as ethnic minorities in Iran?
3. Do we all agree that IRI regime treats Iranian women like dogs and animals? In Iran according to the Mullahs a women is worth half a man. A women has no rights to child custody. A women must ask for permission from her male counter part in orer to do anything. In Iran the women has no rights to watch soccer game from a stadium. The women must dress from her head to toe when she is engaged in any sports. Interesting other Arab countries don't even do it to their women.
4. Do we all agree that IRI has no respect for its own peole and their rights?
5. Do we all agree that IRI regime is involved in embezzlement, corruption and mismanagement?

I did not use any statistic or any statement that was extraordinary. These are facts.

Now if you agree with me on all the 5 points raised there, then we know IRI regime must GO.

But how, that is the question that the people of Iran must answer.

I personally believe through referendum, but they are some who argue that is not possible. Then the next choice is bloody revolution. However, I disagree with foreign military intervention.

Thank you

YT

Thank you for bringing a piece of Dr. Shariati's writing about women to the attention of the readers of this column. It is beautiful. As you know, he wrote much more about women (such as Fatemeh is Fatemeh).

It was due to his thinking and beautiful writing that people like me believed in Dr. Shariati's teachings in our youth. 31 years after his death at the age of 44 years, he continues to influence and affect people like me.

Mammad

تقديم به همه زنان

زن عشق می كارد و كینه درو می كند...
دیه اش نصف دیه توست و مجازات زنایش با تو برابر...
می تواند تنها یك همسر داشته باشد و تو مختار به داشتن چهار همسرهستی...
برای ازدواجش ــ در هر سنی ـاجازه ولی لازم است و تو هر زمانی بخواهی به لطف قانونگذار می توانی ازدواج كنی...
در محبسی به نام بكارت زندانی است و تو...
او كتك می خورد و تو محاكمه نمی شوی...
او می زاید و تو برای فرزندش نام انتخاب می كنی...
او درد می كشد و تو نگرانی كه كودك دختر نباشد...
او بی خوابی می كشد و تو خواب حوریان بهشتی را می بینی...
او مادر می شود و همه جا می پرسند نام پدر....
و هر روز او متولد میشود؛
عاشق می شود؛
مادر می شود؛
پیر می شود و میمیرد...
و قرن هاست كه او؛ عشق می كارد و كینه درو می كند چرا كه در چین و شیارهای صورت مردش به جای گذشت زمان جوانی بر باد رفته اش را می بیند و در قدم های لرزان مردش؛ گام های شتابزده جوانی برای رفتن و درد های منقطع قلب مرد؛ سینه ای را به یاد می اورد كه تهی از دل بوده و پیری مرد رفتن و فقط رفتن را در دل او زنده می كند...
و اینها همه كینه است كه كاشته می شود در قلب مالامال از درد...!
و این, رنج است,
دکتر علی شریعتی

to YT and bijan

Thank you genaban for your replies.

I know it is hard these days trying to keep everybody happy on iranian.com.

Yt Jaan. I am sorry, but with OJ being in the slammer, i am so sharmandeh that i can not supply you with not even a drop:) But I am sure that Mr. bijan has a better idea of who you are now and what your beliefs are. Hopefully, you will have more positively-toned exchanges with him in a near future.

Mr. Bijan . It sure is frustrating to know when you are facing a lie and the trouble that you have to go through in order to reveal the liar and confront him. It is sad. BUt our conversations are, or rather should be based on mutual understanding, and after all everyone of us is here to ultimately learn from and communicate with other fellow iranians.

Ms. Irandokht and Mr. Kaveh

Let's just admit the topic was a very sensitive one and we all got a tiny bit carried away, seeing the clip and reading different opinios. I am so certain that it is nobody's intention to deliberately insult anyone for any reasons.

So. Now that everyone is in the ashteeing mode..Let's thank our moderators for this opportunity. Looking forward to future another round of discussion, on another great topic.

aroused was not meant as sexual

and you are the educated? khandeh dareh kammi.
get a life lady or learn to chill out . you are such a man hater .actualy jewish man hater.