Jahanshah Javid

Botshekan Khan...futile conversation..

Mr "Bot" Shekan.. 

With respect..what seems to need "shekasten" is your preconceived ideas...

you really need to detox your mind and soul and accept  the Truth when its presented to you...These names mean nothing in the greater scheme of what Bahai is and what it stands for...

If opinions like yours and all the nonsense the Mullahs have prepetrated were true...or had  any ounce of truth to them. the term Bahai would only be an entry in the Encyclopedia Iranica  as a reform  movement that disappeared once its founders died..It would not be a vibrant and respected united international body of diverse peoples from every locale on the planet; that incidentally Glorifies Iran as the land of its Birth.

The puzzling Fear some have of Bahais...

I am starting a new religion, in which there is only one prayer, which you only have to pray once. Ever. All you need to do is pray for the day when all religions are so boring, that no one ever talks about or fears them anymore. As soon as that happens, you will get to heaven. Actually, you'll already be there, because everything will finally be peaceful!

It never ceases to amaze me at how easily some will condemn an entire group of believers, based on misinterpreting their faith, and then somehow concluding some sort of conspiracy from it.

So goes the Bahais. I've never known one to be bad, I've never seen anything done in the name of Bahaism to be bad, and the historical record is not exactly filled with their evil exploits throughout the ages.

So why all the fear?

You could say it is the fear of what you don't know, in which case the more is offered (on this site) about this belief system the better.

Or you could say it is merely the demonstration of our own inherent xenophobia towards this group of believers by those in our midst. If so, the more we know who these haters are, the better.

Or it could be the whole idea that the Bahai holy site happens to be in Israel. which I am more inclined to believe those who condemn Bahais have made some sort of connection to.

So the real fear and suspicion of Bahais might have less to do with them as a people, and more to do with the accusers' fear and suspicion of Jews and Israel. Which is a whole other topic...

Even in their suspicion, the Bahais can't seem to get a break! 

Regardless of what anyone might think about the Bahais, the dialogue and coverage on them or any topic on religion, ought to be based on demand rather than supply. Stop reading and commenting on articles by and about Bahais, Bahaism, or any religion you don't happen to like, if you don't like it.

But apparently though, to get JJ to stop posting pieces on any vilified group, all you have to do is simply stop hating them. Hmmm? Come on, that sounds easy enough.

You Can't Always Get What You Want

All religion is nonsense and

All religion is nonsense and god as Nietzsche once said is dead, and we've killed him...let sleeping dogs lie...This is a secular site...religion I guess can both be venerated and denigrated and people should be left to make up their minds, but no faith or faith period should receive preferential treatment, praise and exaltation. To be honest, I would prefer it if doctrine received as little attention as possible; it has no place here. However if there are human rights violations, persecution or slandering of religions for political ends then the matter needs to be addressed. We should respect Baha'is as citizens of Iran (or wherever else they happen to reside) and any kind of discrimination on the basis of religious criteria is inexcusable...I doubt humanity will ever surpass the lamentable condition of faith, but let's hope so... Philosophers stretch the meaning of words until they retain scarcely anything of their original sense. They give the name of "God" to some vague abstraction which they have created for themselves; having done so they can pose before all the world as deists, as believers of God, and they can even boast that they have recognized a higher, purer concept of God, notwithstanding that their God is not nothing more than an insubstantial shadow and no longer the mighty personality of religious doctrines. -- Sigmund Freud (from The Future of an Illusion)

As human knowledge has grown, it has also become plain that every religious story ever told about how we got here is quite simply wrong. This, finally, is what all religions have in common. They didn't get it right. -- Salman Rushdie (from "Imagine There's No Heaven")

I have often wondered, that persons who make a boast of professing the Christian religion, namely, love, joy, peace, temperance, and charity to all men, should quarrel with such rancorous animosity, and display daily towards one another such bitter hatred, that this, rather than the virtues they claim, is the readiest criterion of their faith. -- Benedict de Spinoza (from Theological-Political Treatise)

Men talk of heaven,
there is no heaven but here; Men talk of hell,
there is no hell but here; Men of hereafters talk, and future lives,
O Love, there is no other life--but here.
-- Omar Khayyam (from Rubaiyat of Kahayyam)

The more tremendous the divinity is represented, the more tame and submissive do men become his ministers: And the more unaccountable the measures of acceptance required by him, the more necessary does it become to abandon our natural reason, and yield to their ghostly guidance and direction. --David Hume (from The Natural History of Religion) This notion of miracles belongs to the infancy of the mind, and cannot continue when once the human intellect has begun to frame a systematic picture of the universe. -- Anatole France (from Miracle)

From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest, I am, of course, and have always been an atheist. --Albert Einstein (from Selected Writings on Religion) would make bold to aver and maintain that the order of Nature Never by will of the gods for us mortals was ever created... -- Lucretius (from De Rerum Natura (On the Nature of Things, Book I)

Ba Arezu-ye Movafaghiat, Sadegh

Adding to the list by Jalil Bahar and Botshekan

These following individuals are to be added to the lists of Bahais, posters Botshekan and Jalil Bahar, have so graciously and with lots of research and references and due deligence have informed us about:

Ayatollah Khomeni

Ayatollah Khamenei

Ayatollah Khalkhali

Akbar Rafsanjani

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Mohammad Khatami used to be a Bahai but he converted to Islam after meeting with Islamic clerics in Qom.

All these individuals are Bahai spies who have infiltrated the Islamic goverment. They are paid Zionist agents who also get paid by the Bahais. I know this for a fact. Fatollah, the guy who cleaned my grandmother's aabanbar told my grandma's kolfat who then told my grandma. This is fact. You can also read it on the internet and find it on YouTube.

Bahai Schmahai

I agree with JalehO except that this site does not prpomote Bahaism throug its ads. Those ads are generated by Google based on key words on individual pages. JJ has nothing to do with it.

And NOBODY can dismiss Ahmad Kasravi. You can critique him but you can't write him off by any stretch of the imagination.

The more.....

The more I read these sorry excuses for arguments from some of you sorry excuses for Iranians, the more disgusted I become.

What in the world has the Bahai religion done to any of you who are adherents of any other religion that causes you to react the way that you do?

The short answer: Not a damn thing.

If someone is a Bahai, assumptions are made about them. If someone is Jewish, then it's automatically assumed they're an agent for the Israelis.

Funny how that in the Bahai religion one of the principles they are taught is acceptance and equality of mankind, but those of you who have this imaginary issue over Bahais cannot reconcile yourselves with the same ideology. An ideology that's not based on a religion, but based upon simple humanity.

I'm not Bahai, and have only known a handful over the years. None of them proselytized, and we have never engaged in any debate over whether the Messiah has come and gone, is on his way or is simply lost and doesn't have GPS.

Leave the Bahais and everyone else alone. Concentrate on your own shortcomings and improve yourselves first.

Some of you have a lot of catching up to do.

If you All could only talk about LAWS for our land,

.................................................
LAWS for our land.

Bahai Faith is a personal spiritual Faith...

and neither a "sect" or a "Cult"

By definition a Sect is a denomination of a larger Religion. The Bahai faith is not a sect; because it has its own Holy book, divine writings, a new calendar with Naw Ruz as its New year.

It is as much a "sect of islam" as Christianity is a sect of Judasim., so please try to appaer as more informed..

The Bahai Faith is not a Cult because:

It has no clergy or leader

It has no "Controlling" Technique"

No  Social and Physical Isolation

 No Extremist or Fanatical Behavior

 No Secrecy or Deception

 "Generally, a cult develops around a charismatic leader and reaches its height during that leaders life time. After his death, unless another charismatic leader arises, the cult disappears. While this pattern is not exclusive to destructive religious groups, virtually no cults survive without an authoritarian leader. Thus, it is interesting to note that when Bahaullah ascended in 1892 there were approximately 50,000 Bahais; when Abdul-Baha ascended in 1921 there were approximately 100,000 Bahais; and, when Shoghi Effendi passed away in 1957 there were less than 400,000 Bahais in the world. Since 1957 -- with no living leader -- the Bahai religion has increased thirteen-fold to well over 5,000,000 Bahais world-wide."

for full text: 

  Generally, a cult develops around a charismatic leader and reaches its height during that leaders life time. After his death, unless another charismatic leader arises, the cult disappears. While this pattern is not exclusive to destructive religious groups, virtually no cults survive without an authoritarian leader. Thus, it is interesting to note that when Bahaullah ascended in 1892 there were approximately 50,000 Bahais; when Abdul-Baha ascended in 1921 there were approximately 100,000 Bahais; and, when Shoghi Effendi passed away in 1957 there were less than 400,000 Bahais in the world. Since 1957 -- with no living leader -- the Bahai religion has increased thirteen-fold to well over 5,000,000 Bahais world-wide."

For Full Text 

//bahai-library.com/essays/cult.html 

A little humour and Fun on the subject by Rainn Wilson.

Amidst all this hot discussion and objections about too much Bahai "propoganda", someone asked to see and hear about real prople, about real stories.....So I thought to include this as a little insight  with a little humour , by Rainn Wilson (The Office, Juno etc) ...who had his own issues with Bahais...and his own experience and Spiritual journey...

Mr Faryam and Mr Bahar

Both of you are being deceptive. Let me start with you Mr Bahar. You are falsifying the truth by including a number of non-Bahais in your list to add credibility to your argument. For instance, Mahnaz Afkhami was not known to be a Bahai or the same with Iraj Taslimi or Houshang Sabeti (who came from the same community as Hojabr Yazdani but not all the people who came from Sangsar were Bahais - like your own friend and head of the Iranian Students Confederation Dr Sabetian). To your list I have to add your own Foreign Minister, Abbas Aram and perhaps most important of all, Hoveyda's mentor, Foad Rouhani.

Which brings me to you Mr Faryam. This bonafide nonsense is just a sham. Both Foad Rouhani and Dr Ayadi were bonafide Bahais and were buried with Bahai traditions; yet they were up to their necks involved in the political affairs of the Shah's regime. Same as Abbas Aram. These Bahais were responsible for the promotion of other semi-Bahais (like Hoveyda brothers) to the positions of power (which ultimately were of use to the Bahai community) without themselves being directly involved. They were not the kings but they were the king makers.

By the way Mr Bahar, did you ever consider resigning from your post given the corruption of the Shah's regime?

Bahaism is a sect not a religion

Dear Tahirih

We are saying the same thing without realizing that we are. Christianity vs Judaism is not comparable with Bahaism vs Islam. Christ is believed to be the promised messiah by his followers because he showed the signs of fulfiment of the Scriptures but Bahullah cannot the promised Mahdi as his coming did not bring peace and justice to the world as promised by the Muslim faith. There are of course those who believe that Bahaism is a "cult" in the same way that the Mujahdein Organization is. I leave this for another time.

A Bahai is a self declared Bahai not by association.

Jalil Jaan,

None of the people you name were or considerd to be  
bona fide

Certainly, Hoveyda Was not, and if you insist as much , then you are beng duped by IRI prpoganda nonsense.Hoveyda's father was once a Bahai but was expelled for pusuing ambitious political career; Hoveyda himself, denied it and proved to be against Bahais in his discrimination against Bahas in Govt employmentac., His brother Fereydoun denied it, he even ih his book mentions the d=fact that he had noty heard of i untilhe was sixteen...this has been mentioned adnosium..that is the power of the negative IRI propaganda that makes an intelligent thinking person like you to swear by it...

What the IRI propaganda does not tell you and the The issue here is that , One is not considered a Bahai unless one decides to be one.and at the age of maurity (15) will actually become an active memeber of the world community ..with all of its moral and spiritual resposibilities. It is not simply being born by name.

As an example: 

I myself was born in Iran into a Bahai family with a  Moslem and Jewish background. i was sent away to an english boarding school and had to attend church for the the entire time...I had attended Bahai childrens classses called "DARS AKHLAGH" which had taught me basic bahai moral principles and  that God is One and all the religions are spiritual education and source of wisdom; that they are like a chapter of ONE book, which has been progressively revealed (updated)according to the needs and conditions of the time. To me ths made sense ,and as i met Bahais from every nationality and background, and felt that sense of unity and love, I decided to become one..

I hope my two young sons who are growing up in Tje US  will develop the same sense for their Persian roots and the need for faith and belief in something and  the same spiritual "hunger" to be able to choose for themselves  the path to happiness amd contentment. I hope it will be Bahai,but I can not force them to believe, Just  as I or any other Bahai on this site can not  convince you or anyone as to what only your heart can believe.

 So, One born to a Bahai mother or father both is not necessarily  a Bahai, until  he or she decides to be one..and practice it by actions and not words.

All the names you mentiones, were either categorically Not Bahais ,or considered themselves as Bahai , or were from Bahai families, who decided to go their own way. 

So my friend,  to reiterate, No  
bona fide

I really hope we can elevate these discussions and get away from useless tangents, so that and if we are to discuss Bahais,the coments and discussions would be  what real has been i contribution to Iran and what can they bring for the future

Best

Faryarm 

On Mr. Fateh's Comment

Thank you Mr. Fateh for your honest and straighforward comment on this subject (I'm capable of agreeing with you on a subject, finally!).

With all due respect for Bahaii's and their faith, and agreeing with JJ on the basic premise, I have thought all along that Mona and Tahirih and Seagull have been "assigned" to watch over Iranian.com and to engage in dialogue which would further their religion. I don't see them as ordinary visitors to the site, because they mostly only participate in dialogues where they can talk about their faith and not much else. Mona's approach has been a soft one and Tahirih's has been a more militant one and Seagull appears to explain and tackle the more difficult issues a lot more eloquently and knowledgeably.

I have no problems with their presence on the site and I read some of the things they write, but I call them like I see them, Bahaii faith public relations officers assigned to the site. I was surprised to read in Mr. Fateh's comment that this may indeed not be what they are supposed to be doing, but that's none of my business. I can read what I like and I can ignore what I don't, so their presence poses no harm to me. I think Iranian Bahaii's deserve a chance to express themselves about all the wrong that has been done to them.

Re: Bakhoda

Oh, my god! JJ is a closet Bahai!!!!!!

Man chi migam, to chi migi!

Tahirih
Feeling judgmental today aren’t we? Gooz be shagheeghe che rabti dare?
Shoma az up bringingeh man chi midoonid? Vali khob baahseh, mahzeh khandeh, If I ever become a communist and deny God and you confront me, I will pick the religion I was supposedly born to.
My point was about a lack of balance on this site.
Mr Fateh, you rock.

Bahai's in the Shah's Cabinet

Faryam Jaan:

Off the top of my head, I have the following key posts taken by Bahai's (or Bahai-ol-asl i.e. what the Layman on the Street in Iran would consider Bahai because of their heritage) in the Cabinet Hoveyda had before he resigned:

First of all Hoveyda himself (Prime Minister); then Sanei (Defence Minister), Then Parsa  (Education Minister), then Ansari (Finance), then Shahgholi (Health), then Sabeti (Savak - Information Ministry), then Taslimi (commerce), then Rohani (Agriculture). These are the key positions. There were others (Afkhami (ministry of women etc.)... Depending on how you count out the cabinet, one could argue 8 out of 15 posts in the privy cabinet, or cast a wider net of 20 out of 32 ... It does not really matter. Remember this was at a time when there were 60,000 Bahais in Iran, and some 34 Million Moslems.

Then there was the very influential Dr. Ayadi (Shah's personal physician; who originally nominated Hoveyda for his post and who the shah regularly consulted with).

This, however, masks the full picture, because many ministries also had #2 (deputy ministers) who wielded considerable influence and power that were also Bahai's ...the list is very long but a good example was Seradat in the Information Ministry.

The key here is to be sensitive to Iranian "public's" perceptions. If Iran was a democracy, and the Shah had to solicit public support, he would not have assigned so many seats to one minority group. This minority group for whatever reason became identified with his regime. To make matters worse, the 'layman on the street' believed rumours that Bahai's take their orders from their top leader (AKA) at their holy site in Haifa, Israel. So the Shah's regime was thus also connected to Israel. And to make matters worse, the Brits were linked to the rise of the faith in the region at the turn of the century. So the Bahais (unfairly) carried a lot of political baggage.

Whether or not Faryam Jaan you have heard of it, since I have a very (very) large extended family and have deep roots in Iran, I can tell you that the PUBLIC did react to the Shah's regime's corruption, oppression, and elevation of Bahai's into key posts in the revolutionary fervor that was generated. So some extent, the rise of the Mullahs, the swinging of the pendulum from one extreme to another can be attributed to unbalanced placement of Bahai's in large numbers, and in key posts in the Shah's regime. This is a fact. It never-the-less does not justify anyone's persecution. Also, I have to say the crimes committed and oppresion created by the Mullahs pales in comparison to the Shah's regime. I wonder what will happen to the "mullahs" when this regime is finally toppled?

As you say JJ, they are "normal people" and deserve love, compassion, respect, etc. like anyone else. Iran needs and will need contributions from all its minorities to transcend the years of decline the Mullahs have wrought on Iran and Iranians. I have generally found Bahais' to be highly cultivated, educated, and enlightened. They are great examples of Iranian excellence...wherever they are. We should be proud of them and their achievements. 

Dear observer:

the relation between Bahia faith and shiia Islam is like judaism and Christianity. Christ was a Jew , a devoted one . Bab and Baha'ullah were Muslims, shiia.

Every new religion is coming out of the latter one, even there could be similarities, because the new prophet adds to the foundations of the prior religion.

But the followers could be from different religious backgrounds. For example we have bahais from different religious and ethnic background, as far as me I happen to be shiia Muslim, but that for sure is not a prerequisite to become a bahai.

respectfully,

Tahirih

Thank you Mr fateh

Your harsh criticism of Mona and I is accepted as a complement to us. For the readers this should be a testimony that we are doing more harm than good to our beliefs. Since you say ;

"" Tahirih and Mona19. They are lazy Bahais that instead of doing what they have been told, sit at the comfort of their homes and write a lot of poorly written stuff on here.

Sisters, I know about your goals for now. No Bahai institution is telling you to write these posts. If I know my stuff rigth, you are actually advised by your institution NOT to do things like this.""

So why all the fuss!!

As far as for Mr Fateh, I have to say that the contribution of him to this site is very valuable , unlike Mona and mine.  He definitely added to my knowledge of Persian vocabulary.

Respectfully ,

Tahirih

Bazi az Mosalmoona adam nemisham, bazi Bahai ha ham ...

Bazi az Mosalmoona adam nemisham, bazi Bahai ha ham shooresho daravordan.

My wife is a Bahai. I am Muslim born without ANY religous beliefs. My older son is like his dad and the younger one is a devout Bahai. To each his own.

Because of brain washing during their childhood a good percentage of Iranian Muslims are NEVER going to accept Bahais as normal. There is something about what you continually hear as a kid that you can never get out of your head. So these morons have strong prejuidices about Bahais that they can not shake off.

But having said that, I gotta say that I am sick of posts by blogger(s) Tahirih and Mona19. They are lazy Bahais that instead of doing what they have been told, sit at the comfort of their homes and write a lot of poorly written stuff on here.

Sisters, I know about your goals for now. No Bahai institution is telling you to write these posts. If I know my stuff rigth, you are actually advised by your institution NOT to do things like this.

So, enough is enough. Stop it. Go do some real teaching. I think in U.S. its called IPG.

Bahaiis and Shiites are two sects of the same faith

Tahirih

Your arguements dont add up. You are the evidence. You are a Muslim first and a Bahai second. In other words, you haven't still done anything different than a Shiite bought up in a Shiite family. You have simply made move across and not along. Bahais and Shiites are two branches off the same stem, whic is Islam. Bahaullah never contrdicted Islam, he simply reinterpretted it. So did many other offshoots of Islam. Look at the Sufic orders and their varieties (again one of the reasons that Bahaiis quote from Rumi while they remain in competition with the Mowlavi order).
This is why they can't stand each other.

The Mrs I had a good friend in university in Iran....

She was raised in a very traditional Muslim household,   Her mother  was a  devoted Muslim lady. For some reason unknown to me all the children were staunch communists. I was not a Baha'i then and as a young person does ,I was searching for different and new ideas.

We both had Baha'i friends and she was my room mate. Some nights when we were alone in our room she would say , you know Tahirih, these bahais are all spies and set up by savak and Britain. I used to reply, I do not know , but religion sucks and they are all the same fanatics. One night I asked her ... so if you ever have to pick a religion what would you choose?

Her reply , sums up my story, she said of course Islam!!!!!!!

I am trying to show the readers how our upbringings effects our judgments and prejudices later on in life , so much that a staunch communist who fervently would have argued about non existence of God  but  raised in a Muslim house ultimately would pick Islam.

I am sure if she was raised as a bahai would pick bahai faith , and if raised as a christian would pick Christianity.

So you may think you are atheist, but your judgement is colored by your up bringing. As far as me I guess I am an anomaly ! or am I ?

With the hope of freedom for all,

Tahirih

What is JJ's take in all this?

Every so often JJ writes a piece renewing his vows to be supportive of the Bahai community. It all started with this article six years ago: //iranian.com/JahanshahJavid/2002/July/Ba...

and every year either a Bahai has poured praise on him or JJ himself has reappraised his standing on the Bahai equality rights. WHY?

Does he forget his past words or does he think we have forgotten his stand on the issue. Perhaps this is for the benefit of the newcomers to the site?

JJ will never answer such questions. Can anyone guess why?

Do you go to KFC to buy Hamburger?

Jaleo, do you refer Christians who want to know about shiia faith to sunny clergy? Do you ask Jewish Rabbi's to explain legitimacy of Christ?

If you do , then Ahmad Kasravi is a really credible source to learn about Baha'i faith.

Tahirih

Az yek Bee Khoda

I’ve never actually met an Iranian who is ignorant to or happy about the persecution of religious minorities in Iran.

This idea that Iranians some how don’t know or don’t want to acknowledge the persecution of Bahais is a myth as far as I’m concerned. It’s one of those myths that are systematically reinforced. I have no clue why JJJ believes we don’t want to acknowledge the plight of the Bahais in Iran. Who do you hang out with JJJ? :)

Racism is very simple. If Soghra Khanum down the street doesn’t like someone’s religion, you can bet your bottom dollar that some where else, someone doesn’t like Soghra Khanum’s religion. After all, we’re all the chosen people.

In the case of Bahais, if you are a devout Muslim, you cannot, based on your faith, accept that the Messiah already came and left. But this also applies to Christians and other “people of the book”.

I don’t believe that David Koresh was who he claimed to be and so I … don’t believe him! Vassalam nameh tamaam.

This doesn’t mean anyone has to be denied of their basic rights. And frankly, I’ve never met an Iranian (and comments here reflect that) who disagrees with this basic idea. Most people agree that no matter where Bahais came from and who they helped (which is taboo and can’t be discussed without name calling), they are Iranian citizens like anyone else.

Even MOMEN people I know feel bad about what the GOVERNMENT has systematically done to religious minorities in Iran. It’s very similar to what the Canadian government has done to native people. It sucks.

The treatment of minorities in Iran is a mainly a political issue. I know lots of people are tired of being told they don’t know about the suffering that goes on in Iran and are even contributing to it with their ignorance. What do you want me to do? Sell my house and setup a foundation…???

The amount of Bahai information on this site is offensive to me. Because I normally don’t frequent any circle, on line or not, that constantly brings up religion (any religion) in a good light. The Bahai information on this site is always pro Bahai. I don’t recall ever seeing Iranian.com publish any criticisms of that faith on a regular basis. So first off, I don’t like seeing promoting of any religion. JJ could easily limit the material to 2 per month or 1 a week or something. But he doesn’t and so, I’m bombarded with stuff I have to choose to ignore.

The other problem is that anti Islamic material is routinely posted here. So why not anti “other religions”? I realize that Iranian.com is a user based publishing site, JJ posts what we submit. And I KNOW because of the IRI and being mostly Muslim, we discuss Islam more often. I get that. But as a reader of a secular sight, why should I be bombarded by negative views of one faith and positive views of another. I find the absence of balance very offensive. If anyone dares to routinely post Islamic material in the same way Bahais do here…it’s the kiss of death. You know…nudge nudge, they HAVE to be IRI lackeys! Can you even imagine someone writing a loving article about Emam Hosein or Mohammad in the tone of some of the Bahai articles here? That would be a trip!

Let’s all get off our high religious horses and step down from our freedom of all man kind MANBAR. The majority of people living in Iran are not even Bahai…and they are under all sorts of abuse 24/7. What do you expect of a theocratic state that doesn’t respect the people of it’s own faith? A Muslim woman is a second class citizen in Iran. People can’t dress they way they want. People in Iran are all oppressed.

Souri

have you read Kasravi's books and decided that he is not a "reference", or you just say so?!

Kasravi IS THE GREATEST Iranian historian and have lived ACTIVELY through many of the events he describes or has, and has a huge amount of references in turn for what he writes.Look up his references, will ya?

dear Jaleho: Kasravi is not a reference !

Give us a credible reference, please.

I am as open as you expect to read more about Bahaism. But please give us a better advice. Thanks.

The site has been abused by

The site has been abused by Bahais to make propaganda and as some have expressed, overtly try to proselytize the younger Iranians who have no clue about what Bahaism really is.

It is a clever site to use for this purpose becasue:

1. Many Iranians who visit this site are young and open minded second generation Iranians. Yet they are not educated about historical roots of Bahaism and its political implications as many in Iran who have variety of sources to study. In other words, they get only the pretty "stories" that Bahais spread in this site, just as they do in their proselytizing groups.

2. People tend to be sick of limitations of the IRI and as such everyone dislikes treatment of Bahais in Iran, as they should. This makes many people including myself less willing to criticize the Bahai propaganda here. But, when I see young people saying" thanks for info, I really didn't know this about Bahaism", that's when I think those who believe that Bahism is just a fanatical and in part an imperial attempt should equally give their opinions without fear of being accused of non-tolerance.

I am all for everyone writing whatever they wish anywhere in the internet, including Bahais to write whatever they wish in here. But, opposite views like that of Abbas agha's must be equally written by anyone who believes so, including myself, to balance out the amount of propaganda given here by Bahais. Just look at the paid advertisements on the top of this Iranian.com page I am writing NOW:

Baha'i books  Bah'i coins   Baha'i singles   Baha'i Persian books

to recognizehow the site is being used like an official propaganda site!

My advice to anyone who gets their Bahai information from this site only is to read:

"Bahaiat" by Iran's greatest historian, Ahmad Kasravi.

BTW, Kasravi's book on Shiism is as valuable as his book on Bahism.

Not all Bahaii's are good people

They are the same as all other faithful. You can find good Bahais and you can find bad Bahai's. I give you some publicly well known examples:

Examples of Good Bahai (of which there are many I have to add):

Houshang Seyhoun, the outstanding Iranian Architect: //www.caroun.com/Architecture/Architects/H-Se...

and the great industrialist Habib Sabet:
//query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0...

and the ditinguished scholar Ehsan Yarshater:
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehsan_Yarshater

Exampls of Bad Bahais :

Hojabr Yazdani:

//books.google.com/books?id=SJZ_xgqCOMQC&pg=P...

and the ever present Shah's physician and (allegedly) purveyour of female companions General Dr Abdol-Karim Ayadi (also known as Rasputin of the court of Pahlavi):

//books.google.com/books?id=SJZ_xgqCOMQC&pg=P...

3,000 years

and people are still bitching about how someone prays, or believing there is some sinister agenda involved.

Pathetic.

Dear Irooni to the core...

Hamvatan aziz.I'm the SAME Mona, and nothing has changed! I still leave comments for the subjects that I'm interested and don't participate in the topics that I don't like.

We all have different tastes and characters.

Warmest Rergards,Mona ;)