Jahanshah Javid

Well said Anonymous Everyday

Thank you Anonymous Everyday and Bottled-Banana for your wise words. This blog as JJ also re-confirmed, is about human rights and not Baha’i Teachings. People such as Anvar and Hooshie should have some respect for the rest of us who object to their opportunist actions.

This is a free forum, so Anvar, Hooshie and whoever else wants to preach his/her faith to others can post his/her own blog on that specific subject. We all know that you have been enlightened and found the truth and now want to enlighten us and help us to find the same truth. Ok, all fine, but please don’t do it here. Not in this blog.

i am a bahai too, also!

i am a bahai too, also!  thank you, Jahanshah for your expansive humanity and kindness.

this is what baha'is seek  . . . friends! friendship! and mutual regard!  . . .  in Iran and across the world. That is why the seven Baha'is prisoners have waited patiently for 20 months in jail. This thread makes a happy future seem that much closer for all.

(now I will get back to my merry-heart-dancing . . . bahar amad, bahar amad bahar mushkbar amad negar amad, negar amad negar boordabar amad  . . .

I do feel better…

Dear *Anonymous Everyday* - Actually, I do feel better now. Not because I feel wise or holier than thou, but because I think we understand each other better.

I am grateful that you stand up to fight for the people’s human rights.  I am truly proud of you especially since you mentioned you “have no respect for any religion whatsoever.”  I mean it and I do appreciate your symbolic declaration.

You have chosen a solid green-colored avatar to represent you on this site.  At this time in our history, it is clearly indicative of your support of or solidarity with the Green Movement.  You show this support with every single post you make here, even if your comment is not about the Green Movement.  Am I right?  Assuming that I am right:

I wonder how you would like it if, out of nowhere, someone gave you unsolicited advice and said to you: “What ticks me off is that you never miss an opportunity to ram your political philosophy (by displaying your avatar) down the throat of the rest of us.”  Additionally, they would even suggest that you keep it to yourself, otherwise, you’d be no better that those annoying Subway preachers…  (read your first ‘holy teachings’ post here to get these references)  One might even argue that such attitude would be holier-than-thou.  Wouldn’t you agree?

Would you change your avatar because a handful of people were offended by it or would you try to explain the Green Movement and try to find a common ground? 

Whether or not I totally agree with *bottled-banana*’s sentiments here, I can’t help but to take his/her advice to heart.  Not because (s)he is a Baha’i but because of his/her tone, rationale, and wisdom.   I would do the same with you regardless of your feelings on religion(s).

By matching your communication style, I was not trying to come across as wise or holy; and by listing those similarities, I certainly did not mean to alienate or offend you.   If that was an unintended consequence, I certainly apologize to you and anyone else who might have taken offence. 

When we say Baha’is get persecuted for their beliefs, we need to know what those beliefs are.

You’re alright with me and I hope the same from you.

Anvar

Iran: Land of the First and the Last Prophets

Whether we believe in God or not there is a fact that the land where we all come from gave birth to the first and the last prophet whose faiths have conquered the hearts and minds of millions of their followers to this day. From Zarathustra to Bahá'u'lláh. Persia has seen many others faiths come and go but the beginning and the end of this long trail of human search for truth and love sustained all the injustices that were inflicted upon them and still remain astute and as proud as ever. What Zarathustra started and promised was culminated and fufilled with the emergence of Bahá'u'lláh. This is such a unique status to be held. We Iranians should not only take pride in being the nation that gave such a gift to the world but also must celebrate the existence of and support the remaining Zorasterian and the flourishing Baha'i communities of Iran. Please read the great work of the late Professor Alessandro Bausani, the Italian-Baha'i Iranologist who studied the Persian faiths and produced his magnificient work:

Persia Religiosa, da Zaratustra a Bahá'u'lláh

Thank God for the Baha'i faith, I am a Baha'i too.

Shepesh, read carefully!

You did not read carefully, the part you have in your comment is from Wahid .....and in my comment I said "wahid you say".

My comment stating Faramarz Fateh is a joke, not a personal attack, anyone with minimal amount of common sense understands that.

Lastly, regarding Israeli supporters, yes there are many of them here, however I have rarely, very rarely, used the term Zionist, and as I have stated before, I don't consider "Zionist" a negative term, as there are many decent Zionists who disagree with many of U.S/Israeli policies.

If you have minimal amount of decency ... you need to apologize.

BTW, my comment  "the Baha'i sandwich foroush"  that you or someone else flagged, was in defense of Bahais rights .... and it actually happened to someone I met. This Baha'i fellow started a sandwich place after losing his government job, ...., he was then chased away because of his beliefs. You and the censorchis of this place have no clue! 

Kharmagas

I know you have a fondness of calling everyone under the sun a Zionist. But please can you explain why you have agreed and supported these comments:

"Baha'is have gone out of their way to malign, libel, slander and twist the facts of history regarding. Whatever has happened to Baha'is in Iran in recent years, it is simply the karma that providence has forced them to pay back for their own wrongdoings committed against the posterity of Truth."

And then you have written a second comment making a personal attack at Faramarz Fateh.

Please enlighten us.

I am a Bahai too.

Bottled-Banana: Thank you for your wisdom and reason.

Anvar: I have no respect for any religion whatsoever. But I will stand by you to fight for your right to practice yours without fear of persecution even if it makes you feel all wise and holier-than-thou. Feel better now?

...

بحث سر مذهب نیست،بحث سر ایران و مردمانش است که دارند خونشان میریزند و توبره توبره خاک مملکت را به خارجه میفرستند و با پولش تروریست تربیت میکنند.

دوستان محبت کنند و انقدر سطحی نبینند این مسائل را ! اندکی‌ لطف فرمائید و اندیشه در را درست به کار برید ،انقدر بی‌ تفاوت نسبت به درد دیگری نباشید و بحث را به بن بست نکشانید.

به ایران بیندیشیم و به آزادی ایران،غیر از این اگر باشد... شما را به خیر و ما را به سلامت که زحمت زیاد میدهید به کار نیایید !

If I may

As a Bahai I would like express my heartfelt thanks to JJ for his tireless and unshakable humanity and everyone else here, whether or not they are religious, atheist, political, apolitical, etc who are giving their support to the plight of the Bahais. This gracious act of kindness and solidarity is very much appreciated and will be never forgotten.

Of course, Bahais are not the only people who have been victims of violation of Human Rights and injustice in Iran, so let's keep all those hamvatans who are suffering in our thoughts.

Also, if I may (and this is strictly a personal opinion here) I would also like to ask some fellow Bahais here to not to turn discussions such as this into "teaching" opportunities and respect the wishes of other website posters who while happy to support the Bahais, do not wish to be (as they see it) be preached to. IMHO, this is not the time and place for such discussions and, if it leads to arguments, this would be both disrespectful to the wishes of others and beneath the dignity of the Faith.

We can always talk about the principles of the Faith in other, more appropriate, discussions with those who wish to know more.

Once again, may I sincerely thank all those who have spoken in support of the Bahais. It's heartening to see how important Human Rights and freedom of expression and belief are to fellow Iranians. May these fundamental principles of the world of humanity continue to be cherished and supported by everyone. I salute you all.

Re: Baha'is are not innocent

There is no collective guilt. People ARE INNOCENT until proven guilty.  I don't care if they are Baha'i or not. Every single person is innocent until proven guilty. If so then the guilt is only for the person not the whole group.

How do Muslims like if they are all judged guilty because of the idiot Nigerian bomber? 

Here’s a tip for you…

Learn to read and understand before you abuse your computer’s Copy & Paste commands!

The point of my post, to all the friends who have symbolically declared themselves Baha’is, was to show the many social principles that most of us have In Common.  That also includes the Humanists, Buddhists, and Sufis that you’ve wastefully listed.

Are you not making my point for me?  The point being that, regardless of our backgrounds and labels, many of us share noble ideas that might unite us.

Now here’s another tip for you:  Until you learn to comprehend; Tip your waitress!  Better yet, keep all your useless tips and advice to yourself.  The best way to irritate people is to give them the advice of the unskilled or the unwise.

You catch my drift?

Still Hopeful,
Anvar

JefferyOBF

This blog is not about Baha'ism. It is about human rights. It's about individual's being denied the right to believe in what they please.

Fortunately, you and I live in democracies, where if anybody has a problem with us or our religion they would have to take the matter before an impartial court and jury to settle the issue according to democratic laws of the land.

JJ's blog is about individuals who are systematically discriminated against by a tyrannical government in their homeland, just because they choose to practice a religion the clerical regime disapproves of.

I hope you see that this blog is about human rights issues, not religious issues, so please don't turn it into a religious debate. 

Thank you for some sanity JJ

I understand that these people may have grievences against their faith (all religions have this problem), and they have my sympathy if they were ostricied or think they have been wronged.  That is really terrible. Perhaps they can get justice through a court. But it seems they are so angry and emotional that they cannot separate their issues with the CAPITAL TRIAL imposed on the Iranian Bahais. Wishing death on innocent individuals will never solve their problem, Saying it is "karma" means "they deserve it". And once people become inhumane themselves they will not get any sympathy .

Count your blessings

JeffreyOBF, the internal disputes between Bahais is not the issue here.

In the U.S. you can go to court and defend yourself or seek justice.

In Iran, your orthodox group would be persecuted the same as other Bahais and no court would even acknowledge your rights as an ordinary citizen.

Baha'is are not innocent

I am a Baha'i-- an Orthodox Baha'i--- and the larger Baha'i group who you are so quick to support have taken us to court in the United States to try to prevent us from calling ourselves Baha'i.  They seek to enforce a court order stating that they are the one and only Baha'is and anybody who disagrees with them must not call themselves Baha'i or face jail or penalties. 

//www.truebahai.com/court_case.html

I agree Nur-i-Azal

Wahid you say: "...the Baha'is have gone out of their way to malign, libel, slander and twist the facts of history regarding. Whatever has happened to Baha'is in Iran in recent years, it is simply the karma that providence has forced them to pay back for their own wrongdoings committed against the posterity of Truth."

Wahid, I have had enough Bahaai friends to realize some of the issues that you have pointed out (totalitarianism, etc.), but as you know, many other religions and ideologies have had the same issues. and that does not mean that all the followers are involved in the wrongdoings. I believe you need to make that distinction.

How about these tests?

-If you value Oneness and Unity of Mankind, then you might be a Sufist.

- If you value Harmony of Science and Religion, then you might be a Sufist.

- If you value Elimination of Prejudice of All Kinds, then you might be a Sufist.

- If you value Universal Education, then you might be a Sufist.

- If you value Equality of Women and Men, then you might be a Sufist.

- If you value Universal Auxiliary Language, then you might be a Sufist.

- If you value Universal Peace, then you might be a Sufist.

- If you value Independent Investigation of Truth, then you might be a Sufist.

- If you value Elimination of Extremes of Wealth and Poverty, then you might be a Sufist.

OR

- If you value Oneness and Unity of Mankind, then you might be a Buddhist.

- If you value Harmony of Science and Religion, then you might be a Buddhist.

- If you value Elimination of Prejudice of All Kinds, then you might be a Buddhist.

- If you value Universal Education, then you might be a Buddhist.

- If you value Equality of Women and Men, then you might be a Buddhist.

- If you value Universal Auxiliary Language, then you might be a Buddhist.

- If you value Universal Peace, then you might be a Buddhist.

- If you value Independent Investigation of Truth, then you might be a Buddhist.

- If you value Elimination of Extremes of Wealth and Poverty, then you might be a Buddhist.

OR

-If you value Oneness and Unity of Mankind, then you might be a humanist.

- If you value Harmony of Science and Religion, then you might be a humanist.

- If you value Elimination of Prejudice of All Kinds, then you might be a humanist.

- If you value Universal Education, then you might be a humanist.

- If you value Equality of Women and Men, then you might be a humanist.

- If you value Universal Auxiliary Language, then you might be a humanist.

- If you value Universal Peace, then you might be a humanist.

- If you value Independent Investigation of Truth, then you might be a shumanist.

- If you value Elimination of Extremes of Wealth and Poverty, then you might be a humanist.

You catch my drift?

Here is another tip. The best way to alienate people is to call them what they don't like to be called.

Baha’i Litmus Test

The Spiritual teachings of the Baha’i Faith are vast and may only be explored, experienced, accepted, or rejected by the individuals themselves.  However, its Social teachings are updated guidelines for the betterment of humanity.  

You’ll be surprised to find out that, at least from a humanist point of view, you may indeed be a Baha’i!  

Take this test to find out  : )

- If you value Oneness and Unity of Mankind, then you might be a Baha’i.
- If you value Harmony of Science and Religion, then you might be a Baha’i.
- If you value Elimination of Prejudice of All Kinds, then you might be a Baha’i.
- If you value Universal Education, then you might be a Baha’i.
- If you value Equality of Women and Men, then you might be a Baha’i.
- If you value Universal Auxiliary Language, then you might be a Baha’i.
- If you value Universal Peace, then you might be a Baha’i.
- If you value Independent Investigation of Truth, then you might be a Baha’i.
- If you value Elimination of Extremes of Wealth and Poverty, then you might be a Baha’i.

I hope you are pleasantly surprised to realize how much most of us have in common.

For extra points, you might even agree with these Baha’i beliefs:
- Oneness of God.
- Common Foundation of All Religions.
- Spiritual Solutions to Economic Problems.

Of course, if you are truly a glutton for punishment, try these Baha’i principles:
- Separation of Religion from Politics.
- Obsolescence of the Clergy.

Every single Baha’i in the world is one by choice.  Baha’is believe that “Truthfulness is the foundation of all human virtues” and they are forbidden to practice ‘Taghiyeh’ (dissimulation).  Perhaps, this paragraph partially explains why Baha’is do not conveniently recant their faith to regain their livelihoods and free themselves from the atrocities of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

With gratitude and love for all enlightened friends;
With hope and love for all the rest.

Anvar

Good post

I don't have any problem with Bahais practicing their religion. Their treatment by the IRI is appalling. But, I have to say what pisses me off is how they don't miss any opportunity to ram their holy teachings down the throat of the rest of us.

I am Bahai too!

As a matter of fact Bahai religion is very progressive toward mankind.  It was originated from IRAN.  I advocate this kind, loving religion to anyone who is trying to get rid of Barbaric Arabic Islam.

united we stand.....

بنی آدم اعضای یک پیکرند
که در آفرينش ز یک گوهرند
چو عضوى به درد آورد روزگار
دگر عضوها را نماند قرار
تو کز محنت دیگران بی غمی
نشاید که نامت نهند آدمی

Human beings are members of a whole,
In creation of one essence and soul.
If one member is afflicted with pain,
Other members uneasy will remain.
If you have no sympathy for human pain,
The name of human you cannot retain.

Ebi aka Haaji

Me Too

I am a Baha'i too!

Follow the Leader

JJ

You are a wonderful humanitarian. Thank you for this important blog for the iranian community.

Hopeful signs

I'm pleasantly surprised that so many have responded positively.

Until quite recently any mention of Bahais and their rights would be met with silence or all too familiar ignorant attacks on their faith and conspiracy theories.

Goes to show there's always hope for progress and change for the better, if we step up and do the right thing.

Arthimis

[Crossposted to USENET]

Thanks for all

Thanks for all those educational references and comments about Bahaai's faith. I truly find this faith/Religion (Bahaai) as a fantastic one and wish all the Iranian bahaais all the best.

With all due respect though, there are not anything new about Bahaai's beautiful philosophy and practices that were not already existed and practiced in True Teachings of The Persian Culture previously!

Another words, perhaps one can safely say that Bahaai's true identity was a deeply desired continuation of True Persian School of Thoughts and Practices that initially Westerners from The Ancient Greece to present have been trying to learn and practice properly as well, UNLIKE US IRANIANS AS A WHOLE ... !!!

That is why we Iranians /Persians must first re-capture our true Identity and try to Think, Express and Practice True Persian to Free Ourselves!!! 

Awarness, Consciousness, Love and Peace

Dear JJ

I am not worried about what you believe (or not). Whatever it is, is fine to me. As for symbolic gesture I totally understand that too, as we had it for “Majid Tavakolly” and for “being a Mohaareb”. Nothing wrong to have it for unjust trial of Bahais and brutal treatment of others as well. But my take is that when we say it overly in response to unjust treatment of others,one may not know what we ideologically stand for in reality. I personally thought it might be nicer to say “I am not a ...., but I stand for rights of.....” It gives the impression that people have various and heterogeneous beliefs(and even conflicting ideas), yet they are ready to defend the opposite views. Don’t you think its nicer?

It reminds me a quote from Voltaire (If I am not wrong): “man baa aghideh too mokhaalefam, vali haazaram jaanam ra bedeham taa to harfat raa bezani...”

As a symbolic gesture, yes I would say "I am a Bahai as well"

Yes, one cannot learn about Babism from Baha'is

One cannot learn about the kings of iran from Islamic Republic's
history book. One cannot learn about islam from the Jewish books. One
cannot learn about blacks from the KKK literature.

And for that very reason one cannot learn about the history of the Babi movement and the Bayani faith from the literature of the Baha'is. Instead one goes to the objective histories and accounts which the Baha'is have attempted to supress and whitewash just as the Islamic republic, as a totalitarian state, supressed and whitewashes the history of Iran.

JJ, please don't abuse the term athiest

There are some folks that consider themselves athiests these days.  You find many in Europe, some in China and in Russia.

The problem I have with athiests is that most have become athiests based upon emotional circumstances:

For example, they didn't like organized religion, or they were turned off by the discriminatory practices in most religions and faiths, so they decided to become athiests.  These folks, whom I fear JJ is one of them have simply followed their emotions

Then there are a select very small group of athiests that I actually admire and respect.  They are the ones that reached this decision based upon purely scientific analysis and studies.  They studied evolution, Big Band theories, Theories regarding particulate matter, matter and anti matter to reach that conclusion.

The former group of athiests are the ones that tend to revert or adopt a new faith once their bliefs and circumstances change.  They are the ones that have hurt athiests the most.  They tend to have revisions of their athiestic beliefs as they get older and closer to the death bed.   Thus you see them becoming diests, buddhists, "spiritualists"..you name it

However, for the latter group, they actually move from being athiests to being agnostic because they are so overwhelmed by the forces of nature and science and vastness of the universe that they actually become AGnostics- they believe there is a higher force and that higher force is NATURE.