Learning from Hafez

I'll add this to what AO said

I used to go to graduate school in Architecture. Similar to HFB, it gave me a sense of cultural superiority, knowing what a rich background traditional Iranian architecture arises from.

But I quit half-way through grad school. There was too much fluff, and it bothered me how distant academic architecture has positioned itself from the real world. So I switched to a technical field, something with much more depth and utility.  

Art and Architecture is beautiful and pleasing. But even IT is a slave to physical constraints and scientific principles. There is a reason Taq-i Kasra is precisely shaped as a parabola. It wasnt aesthetics. It was pure physics that led to that shape. The same can be said about flying buttresses, or the dome of the Pantheon (the oculus, the coffers, etc). The shape of water cisterns or shabestans or qanats or wind-catchers in Persian architecture is almost entirely dictated by the Physics of it all. (I presented a paper on the Physics of baad-geers to the annual Southeastern chapter meeting of SAH in Dallas in 2005). The beauty of post-Islamic architecture itself in Iran is entirely built on mathematical abstractions. And Mathematics of course, is what many (such as Bertrand Russel) consider the "highest form of art", the ultimate perfection, the closest we can get in becoming Gods.

When people ignore science and scietific principles in favor of pure aesthetics, not only do they do a great disservice to their culture by focusing their attention away from reality (as AO pointed out), but they even get their asses sued like Frank Gehry for foolish designs  

//tech.mit.edu/V127/N53/lawsuit.html

Thankfully, there are those such as Santiago Calatrava, who come from a technical background, and use their technical prowess to create truly astonishing designs. 

Today, I seek profound meaning and wisdom in the meaning of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, in Bell's Theorem, in gene expression, and in neuronal neoplasticity and how it relates to free will and reality, not in Hafez's poetry. Unless of course I'm in a mehmooni, and I want to impress the inlaws. That's another issue!

In short, poetry is for the lovelorn and the khayeh-maals of the darbaar. Observe:

//iranian.com/main/2012/mar/poets-reciting-khamenei

Unprecedented concept of "power"

Aoymous Observer: I do respect your Observation. Do consider however, that things haven't always been Brutal Cold Art-Free Power Vs. Prancing Dancers.

The Renaissance was one of the most powerful periods for Italy - while the rest of Europe was only coming out of the dark ages. The Renaissace was known for its exquisite balance of the arts and sciences - and it became a powerhouse that integrated both worlds. The current "powerhouses" of our Era are consumed by power only. But it hasn't always been that way - and in a World where the next powerhouse again tries to draw from both worlds (sciences and arts) then mark my word, our heritage, just like it did in the 1960s, would serve as a seminal role in its making. I love this stuff, as I happen to be a painter and architect and value our contribution profoundly.

It would be a shame to look at those of us who come from artistic fields that have spirituatlity as part of its make up - as ignorant fools who are forgetting what it means to rule the World. This current formula of ruling - one of power and utterly bereft of the Arts is actually rather unprecedeted. Today, it's who builds the tallest, glitziest building - but when Paris and Rome were built, power without "beauty" was uncooth - which is why all the patrons hired the Michaelangelos, the Hafezes, and the Brunelleschis - Beauty was integral to Power. Our eras disconnect is unprecedented. Please do remember that.... and to ro khoda allow those of us who love steering our strengths in terms of contribution to world history, do so with peace of heart! : - )) Afsaneh

Let me simplify it for you HFB

There's nothing wrong with reading Hafez and being spiritual.  But one's entire culture should not be consumed by it--as is the case with the Iranian culture.  It's kind of like sending your child to school only to learn literature at the expense of everything else.

The world of poetry is a world of fantasy, where one can mentally prance around in a field of flowers while s/he enjoys wine and the company of fine women/men.  But the real world is indeed a brutal one.  It has always been such.  Industrious and adventurous cultures get to be on top while the weak ones are left to wallow in their misery and the thoughts of could have been / should have been.  That is the case with Iranians.  Poetry and the false feeling of cultural superiority that goes along with it could just be what they use to compensate for their shortcomings.  

brutal times

Correct Fesenjoon

and the over reliance on "spirituality" which Iranians have been plagued with for centuries brings about a sense of hopelessness--i.e., "destiny--which in one's mind takes self determination and self reliance away from oneself and places it in the hands of unforseen forces.  Hence, Imam Zaman, Khomeini and messianic tendencies.  That's part of the reason why we are not explorers and discoverers, the other part being what you described below.  That's why Britain, a small isalnd with very limited natural resources, ruled half of the world while we sat in our homes, read Hafez and tried to reach "Irfan."

H for B

No one will need any depression medication if they make the effort to live healthy active lifestyles (with consistent varzesh) and stay away from processed and non-organic foods. This is not some esoteric secret locked up in some Ibn Arabi manual. 

All one needs is to just go out, jog a bit, breathe in the fresh spring air, eat well, and let their brain's neoplastic abilities take care of the rest.  

Devil has too many faces ... one is IRI

It is so unfortunate to let devil takes away from us things that actually matter. 

One is the beautiful poetry of Hafez.   

SK

Of course Science is not the answer to everything. Thats why people were showing Khomeini's picture on The Moon to eachother in '79.

It's why Iran today is ruled by the "Rowhaniyoon". i.e. "Spiritualists".

Thanks, but...

Ive seen quite well for the past 33 years of my life what spiritualism has brought us.

//lh3.ggpht.com/-Rx6AiTni2PU/Tw8WGjNpGgI/AAAAAAAABms/i2TTRJ7POhI/s1600-h/MullahSkeet2%25255B3%25255D.jpg

After all, these are the Men of God.

And they love to talk of their cultural superiority, and frequently pepper their sermons with verses from the Divan of Hafez.

Science is not the answer to everything ...

Fesenjoon go back to the basic to get an idea  even if that means for you to read a 200 years old novel written by Mary Shelley , " Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus " 

As one commentator on this book mentions " This book is about the change from a metaphysical world view to a scientific world view. Remember how the young Frankenstein was gripped by reading the works of Paracelsus the alchemist until told that it was "sad trash" and out of date. The contrast is between a view of the world as manipulative (what is it possible to do), as opposed to moral (what ought we to do). This goes to the core of the modern existential dilemma, and one which has not yet been fully resolved. "

The book remains highly relevant to the modern world.  

materialism

Fesenjoon 2: The world can be viewed through may spectrums. We are indeed living in an age where science has been ruling over the arts and spirituality since the Enlightement - and brought with it entire nations living on anti-depressants.  If you are a lover of the spiritual that is best manifest via the Arts  - be it literature, architecture, gardens, and all manner of things non-material, then Iran'a contribution has been astonishing. It would be ahame to put that reality down to "oghdeh" - and just as the Italians celebrate their enormous contribution, also similarly, to the Arts - I am incredibly honored to celebrate our Persian contribution to the human spirit.

Hafez has a wonderful Beyt:

"Ba Moda'ee Magooeed Asrar-eh Eshgh o Masti ....." I'll leave it to those interested to check up the rest, it really is great advice.  Thank you for sharing your views. Hafez suggests in the rest of that Beyt to cut such conversations short, with permission, I'll do so with this topic.

"worship" Hafez?!

When are Iranians ever going to let go of the notion that the world is dying in thirst for their culture and way of life?

Theres a reason no one has heard of The West-Ostlicher Divan, and yet every school and college in every nation on the planet cherishes, teaches, and glorifies the teachings of The Origin of Species, Newton's Principia, Euclid's Elements, and Galileo's Dialogo.

How many people outside the sphere of Persian language have even ever heard the name Hafez? Answer: Goethe, Emerson, and a few others. And how many outside of science have ever heard of Einstein and Newton and Galileo? Answer: Everyone.

If there is any worshipping to be done, I'd much rather worship the likes of Pasteur, Curie, Bohr, Plato, and Avicenna.

All poetry ever did for Persians was to give them a false sense of entitlement. Like the world owes them for being so special. As if other nations have no poetry or culture. Oh look what Rumi did for the world: He's made Coleman Barks a rich man, and his verses are etched on some bench in some corner in some public college in Texas. We are civilized. Yay.  

No wonder we dont even have a single scientific Nobel Laureate, our heads are stuck so far up the ass of self-glorification, busy praising our ancient past.

By the way, Thank You Texas, for feeding our oghdeh, like Germany did, by building a stone bench celebrating our poetry!

(khoda shafaatoon bedeh)

I meant

I meant... the photo "above" - thank you Germany, by the way!