Persian Realm

Thank You PJ

P_J jaan,

Thank you my friend.

Best,

Masoud

VPK

VPK jaan,

Do not take benross’s description seriously.

1. JM strongly supported land reform from early on. Dr. Mossadegh’s cabinet passed land reform.

//www.jebhemelli.net/htdocs/Views/2010/September/MatindaftariH_28Mordad.html

2. Reza Shah took the land of others (including the properties of small land owners) for himself. According to various scholarly accounts (e.g., Abrahamian), Reza Shah’s system was for the big land owners. Same with Mohammad Reza Shah.

3. After Reza Shah’s departure, there were pressure on MRS to return the land stolen by his father back to the people. That was NOT land reform. It was giving up stolen loot under pressure.

4. The U.S. advocated land reform. MRS initially opposed that. The big landowners were one the pillars of his support. The Kennedy administration put tremendous pressure on MRS to enact land reform. Under the American pressure, the Shah agreed to the land reforms. And when Arsanjani did a good job, the Shah got rid of him.

5. Land reform was necessary.

MK

Thanks for the GREAT Post, Masoud!

As you mentioned the Shahollahi, Hezbollahi group on this site want nothing better than to erase and rewrite the absolute terrible history of Pahlavi era of Iran, shamelessly. 

According to FR we are to believe and appreciate the fascistic regime of “Pahlavi Criminal Enterprise” and believe that Ashraf Pahlavi who was known to be a NARCO trafficker did all that for the betterment of her nation....not realizing that Iran’s contemporary history has been ETCHED in stone.  We are also to believe, accordingly, from  Shahollahis in general, that Mohammad Reza Pahlavi committed TREASON, Murder while EMBEZZELING tons of money out of sense of DUTY and service to his country, and maybe that’s what these folks have convinced themselves, in a much SKEWED way, and believe…it is called self-deception at its worst!

Greatness of Mossadegh is becoming more APPARENT and REAL as time grows, as was the case about Amir Kabir!   People who have recently  been visiting Iran attest to that, in fact you see this great man’s portrait carried in street demonstrations more and more, while Pahlavis have joined histories GRAND toilet!  Shahollahis/Hezbollahis can say whatever they please, as KKK groups, Skin heads and other NEFERIOS groups do, trouble is the louder they scream the more credibility they loose!  

Always, enjoy reading your enlighting and informative blog!   Have a GREAT LIFE!        

Jomhurikhah

Dear Jomhurikhah,

Do you (does the JM) welcome RP's remarks?

MK: Yes, I do. I asked DK to provide a date for RP’s remarks. I am waiting to find out when he made those remarks. RP made similar remarks in the 1986-88 period. If these remarks are new, they would be positive.

Do you consider the formation of a strategic alliance or united front feasible?

MK: JM has had many in-depth discussions on the kind of alliances that we think good and feasible. Actually, we will release a major policy statement shortly.

My position has been that a formal alliance of all those who support a republican constitutional system (democratic secular republic) should be pursued.

I am sure if you try hard you can refrain from using 'Shahollahis" for 'Monarchists" and "Stalollahis" for the commies!!

MK: Why not calling a spade a spade? I do not use the term Shahollahis for DK. DK is a constitutional monarchist. But FR, benross, and Simorgh are Shahollahis. This term is used to refer to the brutal dictatorial monarchists. It is an accurate term.

If a Marxist supports Stalin’s policies, it would be accurate to call him/her Stalinist.

Best,

MK

Benross

Katoozian also had some concept that the forceful military structured modernization of Pahlavi was fragile and once the power went away (of Reza Shah era) everything went back to where they were. He was arguing that if the regions were left alone, they could evolve more
successfully through their traditional social structure (meaning
arbaab-o-ra'yati) which is in line with thousand family policy of JM of
the time, but I didn't make too much of it.

It seems that Katoozian was right doesn't it? I mean the modernization was fragile and resulted in this backlash. Much of the resentment towards the Shah was exactly this forced modernization. If he had left regions under the traditional structure it would have been far more stable.

By destroying the traditional structure Shah left it wide open for two forces: Communism and Islam. In desperation he resorted to oppression in order to regain stability.

I'd say we were better off with the Arbabs (regional landlords)! Another example of poorly thought of "social reform". Just like the Islamic reform being shoved down people right now by the IRI.

MK:"The irony is that DK posted something by RP..."

This is my question for which I request a straightforward, (copy/paste/link)less answer:

Do you (does the JM) welcome RP's remarks? Do you consider the formation of a strategic alliance or united front feasible?

I am sure if you try hard you can refrain from using 'Shahollahis" for 'Monarchists" and "Stalollahis" for the commies!! 

دوستان

زیاد این ویدیو را تجزیه تحلیل نکنین - متاسفانه اصل مطلب را گم کردین - و اون اینکه، این جناب رضا پهلوی، پسر شاه مرحوم، بسیار مثبتانه راجع به مرحوم مصدق صحبت کرده - بعنوان شخصی بسیار وطن پرست - چیزی که اکثر این شاهیا انتظار نداشتن - السلام والسلام ... ! :)

MK

Shah tried to join Islam and modernity. Shah made a huge mistake by trying to ally himself with Islamists.
I think part of it was Shah's lack of self confidence. The other part was his genuine religious beliefs.
Once the Islamists got the idea of killing at will it was only a matter of time before they wanted all the power. A big mistake by Shah.

By the way, MK's number one

By the way, MK's number one scholar, Mohammad Ali Homayoun Katouzian is number one Mossadeghist Scholar outside Iran.

That's funny. I read his book and really enjoyed it. It never occurred to me he was 'theorizing' Mossadeghist discourse. Of-course I could see the apologetic tone he had about him. I'm so used to apologetic tone of our intellectuals that I didn't consider it out of ordinary. Abrahamian also has a very apologetic tone toward Toodé but I see it -embarrassingly- normal and as a matter of course with our intellectuals.

Katoozian also had some concept that the forceful military structured modernization of Pahlavi was fragile and once the power went away (of Reza Shah era) everything went back to where they were. He was arguing that if the regions were left alone, they could evolve more successfully through their traditional social structure (meaning arbaab-o-ra'yati) which is in line with thousand family policy of JM of the time, but I didn't make too much of it. As I said, hallucination is something I expect from our intellectuals and I automatically block it off my mind when I read a book.

Jomhurikhah

Dear Jomhurikhah,

I have no problem seeing Shahollahis and Hezbollahis attack and insult Dr. Mossadegh, JM, or myself. It is the nature of the conflict between those who want dictatorship and repression who hate and attack those who want independence, freedom, democracy, and human rights.

This thread actually is the reflection of the realities on the ground. We observe Shahollahis (Simorgh, Benross, FR) and Hezbollahis (kharmagas, Sargord) attacking the pro-democracy forces.

The Shahollahis and Hezbollahis have been attacking us for 60 or so years. It is expected. Actually, the more we are attacked and insulted by these genocidal, fascistic, violent forces, the more people can see the differences between the forces of freedom and the forces of dictatorship.

The irony is that DK posted something by RP praising Dr. Mossadegh.  :-) 

To be insulted by these genocidal forces (SAVAK, VAVAK) is like being insulted by the KKK and the Nazi party. It vindicates our policies. It shows we are doing something right.

Best,

Masoud

خوشم اومد ...

که اِنقد این شاهیا که اینهمه بد و بیراه راجع به این بدبخت مصدق مي گفتن، حالا کاسه داغتر از آش از آب در اومدن ...  جلل خالق .... :) !! - خدا مصدقا بيامرزه ...  - روحش شاد .... !!

Dear Ali and VPK

Ali jaan and VPK jaan,

Please read the whole paragraph written by Dariush Homayun.  It is very clear why the murderers of Kasravi were not prosecuted and let free.

اطمینان داشت که به هر ترتیب به آنچه آرزو می کرد می رسد. در رویکرد به مذهب نیز می پنداشت می توان بیشترینه آخوند بازی را با بیشترینه فرنگی مآبی در آمیخت.

مهم تر از حضور علمای مذهبی در مراسم سوگند او در مجلس، بازگرداندن آیت الله قمی تبعید شده رضا شاه از نجف با سر و صدای بسیار بود که نخستین اقدام مهم او در پادشاهی به شمار می رفت و پیام اشتباه ناپذیری به روحانیت واپس رانده و در وضع دفاعی بود که می تواند حمله به نوآوری های رضا شاه و بازگشت به موقعیت برتر خود را آغاز کند.

از آن پس عناصر مذهبی از میانه رو های قم تا افراطیان فدائی اسلام تا بیست سالی بعد تا جائی که جامعه تکان خورده و متفاوت ایرانی اجازه می داد در مسیر ارتجاع تاخت و تاز کردند. مدارا با مذهب چنان بود که کشندگان کسروی بی پیگرد رها می شدند

"JM " and opportunism, Khanome Rusta, no!!!

Khanome Rusta,  why are you saying these things? Do you want JZM sangssaarchee thugs and their spiritual AIPACi leader (who happens to have same initials as mine) start throwing stones at you? Granted that "JM"chis pass Hezbe Todeh in opportunism, that is not "enough" to call them opportunists!

I told you! mythology machines are back at work

"The Shah had the power to prosecute Fadaian Islam."

I don't know whether I should laugh or I should cry

I thought the Shah was constitutionally an non-executive entity? Was it not what Mossadegh insisted?

So what was the job of the Chief Executive??

I can't stop laughing

FR

Koshandegane Kasravi

Yes Kasravis' murderers were the same gang of Islamists. The Shah did nothing. However I am not so sure of the reasons. My guess is the Shah lacked the backbone. He was new and not exactly brave. So he let them get away. His mistake was to not perosecute them once he got powerful. He should have and in doing so should have broken the power of Mollahs. 

No matter it is all past. Neither Shah nor Mossadegh stood up to the Islamists. Maybe they thought they would deal with them and use the Islamists. This is a mistake the next real Iranian leadership must not repeat. Next time prosecute the heck out of Islamists. They have provided us with plenty of crimes. We don't need to go back to Kasravi or Razmara.

Masoud jaan

I agree with you on the fact that Kasravi assasins went free.

I am just saying, had it happened in 1975, you might have been able to point the finger at M.R. Shah, for failing to issue certain orders.

But in 1946, the 26 year-old King, by all accounts, was very much, what he was supposed to be: A constitutional Monarch.

You can blame M.R. Shah for much of everything else that happened later on, specially after 1953, but at the time, nobody expected him to order anyone jailed!

I know all about Kasravi's assasination, and frankly, this is the very first time, anywhere, I hear someone blaming the Shah for letting the killers of Kasravi get away.

You are a bright man. Let's keep things in prespective, shall we?

Ali

Ali jaan,

koshandegan Kasravi = killers of Kasravi

bi paygard = without prosecution

raha mishodand = were freed

the killers of Kasravi were not prosecuted and freed.

If you disagree with my translation, please provide yours.

The Shah had the power to prosecute Fadaian Islam.

Best,

Masoud

Re: Can someone like Shirin

Sure, but it won't get anywhere. The court in the Hague is set up by the West to advance its interests. Just like all the other institutions they have. If we want to advance we better stop looking to outside. That includes: the West; Islam; Russia; China or anyone else. In fact we should fully expect them to do anything possible to mess us up. 

We have one friend and that is us. Or rather we have 70 million friends: the Iranian People. Or we end up like Palestinians who for 60 years are looking to the outside for help.

Marhoum

Yes of course you are included in my welcome list. I want to be open minded. If you have the best of Iran in mind then you are on my welcome list.

Yes, Shah was trying to make Iran independent. Why do you think he got overthrown? The British would have none of it. They manipulated Jimmy Carter to do Shah in.

That is why our leaders need to be not just patriotic. They must be cunning; more so than our enemies. We are not dealing with nice people and need to outsmart them.

On "tactical alliances" and something called: Principle

Dear Benross,

" Our issue is not the person of Mossadegh per se, but his legacy in our subconscious. And I attack that any way I see fit."

Good luck to your uncompromising stance on this issue.

I am interested by our JM scholar's dismissing the fundamentally most unprincipled bed-fellowships of our recent history as "tactical alliance." I have a better word for it: betrayal of trust" or more succinctly: opportunism. 

You ask any of the Bazargan's cabinet members and their cohorts that why did they jumped into the same bed with Khomeini and they say: tactical alliance! Precisely as their role model, Mossadegh had done it 25 years earlier. 

Now lets wait and see how our JM scholars would restart the myth-making machinery and repeat the same nauseating rhetoric that they have been repeating for more than fifty years.

To Mossadeghist, in the true spirit of their one time leader, there is only one overriding principle: opportunism. 

By the way, MK's number one scholar, Mohammad Ali Homayoun Katouzian is number one Mossadeghist Scholar outside Iran. From his early days in the JM fraction of the Confederation of Iranian Students in the 1960's he has been saying the same thing and now after years of short-term appointments in second rank British universities, having secured an annually renewable research fellowship (not a teaching professorship) at Oxford, he is using the name of Oxford to add weight to his otherwise light arguments

FR

MM jan: Thank you for the

MM jan: Thank you for the link. I view the mullahs as a foreign country...lol

Vildemose

The court at the Hague where Mosaddegh went to is set up to judge disputes between countries.

The court you refer to is for the Iranians in the next regime to decide about financial abuses of power.  Also, the court at the Hague that we want is:

International Tribunal for the Prosecution of Persons Responsible for Serious Violations of International Humanitarian Law Committed in a Territory. 

And, it looks like attempts at tribunals by hundreds of families/friends/groups of the victims of Iranian murders are starting outside Iran, See, e.g.,

How History will judge us

Join the THE IRAN TRIBUNAL on Facebook - join the facebook efforts

hey VPK!?

"I welcome your points of view."

VPK, I am not sure if I am included in your welcome list, but I agree with you ONLY on Shah.  I believe towards the end of his reign Shah was trying to make Iran independent, and Iranians prosperous.

Can someone like Shirin

Can someone like Shirin Ebadi go to Hague and ask for nationalization of all Iranians' oil revenue and transparency in how the national oil money is spent? Who receives mos of this money? what foreign entity has milked Iran's national resources through the mullahs?

Thank you Farah for your

Thank you Farah for your extensive comment. I copy&pasted it on my computer because these valuable comments tend to get lost in the maze of IC.

As my personal take on the person of Mossadegh, I'd say it's a qualified evaluation and it does not limit to him, personally. Our issue is not the person of Mossadegh per se, but his legacy in our subconscious. And I attack that any way I see fit.

The 'mass' is excused. But those intellectuals who still don't see the correlation between the 'mass appeal' of 'the man in the balcony' and 'the man in the bedroom', are not part of the political project for a modern Iran.

Let us stop fighting

I agree with a lot of comments here. But I disagee with:

• Saying Mossadegh was a bastard.
• Saying people who opposed him are not partiotic
• Saying Shah was a bastard.

In my opinion both Mossadegh and Shah were patriots. Both JM and Monarchists are patriotic. They both used dictatorial means to advance their cauee. They both failed as the Islamists took over our nation. 

It is painful to see two groups of REAL Iranians fighting. If it was not for this the real enemies i.e. the Mollahs would not be in charge right now. Therefore we need to stop hating each other. Rather get together and work on our shared goal.

That goal to me is "Iran for Iranians and what is best for the nation". A system where people's input and good it put above outside interests. Be it Arabism and Islamism or interests of Britain. More dangerous than Westoxification is Islamtoxification. If we keep fighting we are going to let Mollahs or MKO run things. I welcome your points of view.

VPK

Un-deniable FACTS

Mosaddegh was a patriot who was fed up with the way that the Brits were plundering Iranian natural resources, and he did something about it. 

After giving up on negociations, Mosaddegh nationalized Iranian resources, he went to the world court in the Hague, argued & won the case for Iran and paved the way for other countries to follow suit.  For that alone, Mosaddegh will remain an important hero for Iran and all the countries that kicked the Brits and other imperial forces out of their homelands.

Unfortunately, Mosaddegh did not count on the cunning nature of the Brits, the British naval blockade, the resources of the Americans and the two-faced nature of some Iranians at the time.

Leave it be.

period

مدارا با مذهب چنان بود که کشندگان کسروی بی پیگرد رها می شدند.

M jaan:

You are misquoting Homayoun, my friend.

Where does it state "the Shah allowed the assasins of Kasravi to go free"?

It was 1946 !

He lacked the power to jail/free anyone.

Come on now...

Jehadist Mossadeghists (JM)

Dear Simorgh and VPK

You will never get an answer to your correctly posed question from the JM (Jehadist Mossadeghist). MK being a JM activist is not "programmed" to tell the truth. In the words of Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men", He Can't Handle the Truth!

Let us go back to the days before Mossadegh's premiership. 

Twice (at least) Mossadegh's accession to power  was secured by the most reactionary of forces: Fundamentalist Islam. First time was when General Haji Ali Razmara, the last major prime minster before Mossadegh (only to be followed for a very short period by Hossein Ala) was assassinated by the fundamentalist Islamists, Fadaeiyan Islam, under the organizational leadership of Seyyed Mojtaba Navab-Safavi and the spiritual leadership of Ayatollah Seyyed Abol-Ghassem Kashani. With Razmara out of the way, the path was clear for his chief antagonist, meaning Mossadegh, to be appointed as Razamar'a successor.

Documented evidence (Keyhan and Ettela'at newspapers dated  17 and 18 Esfand 1329) have it on record that a day after the assassination of Razmara, in a massive rally held in Baharestan Square (opposite the Majlis) by the combined supporters of Jebhe Melli and Kashani, prominent leaders of Jebhe Melli AND Kashani addressed a huge crowd of tens of thousands in  jubilation  and congratulated the nation upon the killing of Razmara. The speakers were Mozaffar Baghaee  and Hossein Makki (Mossadegh's staunchest allies who 18 months later turned against him) AND Kashani (then the chief Mossadegh ally). Even Navab-Safavi addressed the same rally to the huge applause  of the crowd and threatened the Shah with the consequences of  harming the assassin, Khalil Tahmasebi. Later Baghaee and Makki were hand picked by Mossadegh to accompany him on his trips to the US and later in the Hague. What was the response of their leader, Mossadegh, to this outrageous  and public approval of political assassination? NOTHING! Ask our Mossadeghists so called scholars to show any evidence of Mossadegh's condemnation of, disapproval of, or even distancing himself from such disgraceful demonstration of political barbarity. Any democratic leader would not only distance himself from such demonstrations but would condemn them unequivocally. Ask Jehadist Mossadeghits to show us a single piece of evidence to suggest that the democracy loving Mossadegh had even mildly condemned the murder and muderes of Razmara.  

Thanks to Ayatollah Kashani's personal and huge influence in support of oil nationalization and in particular for Mossadegh,  the latter was nominated by the 16th Majlis as their favorite prime minister, to which the Shah agreed.

Kashani intervened two more times to have Mossadegh and Jebhe Melli installed in power and until it became clear that Mossadgh had personal power ambitions, he did not withdrew his support. Ask the Jehadist Mossadeghists why Mossadegh had to personally meet Khashani and ask for his continued support (the famous meeting held on 7 Bahman 1331) . Kashani agreed on the grounds that Mossadegh would not proceed to ask for the continuation of emergency powers. Mossadegh even rewarded Kashani by releasing the head of the terror organization, Navab-Safavi, from prison (without going through the due process).  But as we know Mossadegh did stick to his words continued with his demagogic power madness and eventually on 28 Mordad Kashani served him his marching orders. 

The seventeenth Majlis elections were conducted under the premiership of Mossadegh. It was won by Jebeh Melli representatives in Tehran and many major cities including Hossein Makki and Mozaffar Baghaee (yes the same Makki and Baghaee who congratulated the nation for the murder of Razmara) AND Ayatollah Kashani as Jebhe Melli's top candidates in Tehran. Kashani replaced the former Speaker, Emami, and became the Speaker from the Jebeh Melli fraction. It was at the instigation of Kashani that a bill with three degrees of emergency was passed through Majlis and Razamara's assassin, Khalil Tahmasebi, was released on the grounds that Razmara was mahdour-ol-ddam (one whose blood is hahal to shed). Therefore, Jebeh Melli  openly and unanimously voted for the pardon of a self-confessed assassin on purely non-secular and religious grounds.

Is it not ironic that the same Majlis that voted for the unconditional release of a self-confessed assassin was not accused by Mossadegh as a corrupt and pro British Majlis but later in the same season when the same members did not approve of Mossadegh's extension of emergency powers were declared by him as agents of foreign powers?!!

On 30 Tir 1331 Kashani saved Mossadegh premiership for the last time by personally writing to the Shah and  asking him to remove Ghavam and re-appoint Mossadegh. Without the massive support of the pro-Kashani forces Mossadegh had no chance to be re-appointed (as he had resigned after the Shah did not agree with is demand for being given the control of the army).

One last interesting aspect of Mossadegh's servile alliance with the Islamist (or in the words of our resident JM scholar: "tactical alliance"!!):

Mossadegh was the first prime minister to officially accuse someone for being Mofsid-fil-Arz (one who spreads corruption on earth - the IRI's most favorite term when accusing their victims to a certain death). On 12th Mordad 1331 the bill to confiscate the properties of  Ahmad Ghavam (the former prime minister) which had been submitted by Mossadegh's government passed through a JM dominated Majlis on the grounds that Ghavam was a mofsid-fil-arz.!

The fact that Reza Pahlavi is making a tactical move to appease the Mossadeghist has no bearing on the truth but says a lot about his deep lack of knowledge about Iran's contemporary history.

FR

Masoud

Sorry Masoud. You are playing fast and lose with the facts. The statistics from Abrahamian's book which which you acknowledge were related to the plebicit which gave Mosadegh the emergency powers he needed to put in effect the dissolutiion of parliament. You cannot simply dismiss it as insgnificant and not draw conclusions from the mathermatic impossibility of a 99% approval rating.Being elected is one thing but extending your powers beyong a remit of the mandate given to you on the basis of a referendum which was unsound is constitutionaly dangerous. This is serious.

I made no confusion about the election: Regrettably, this is your difficulty. You seem to accept Mossadegh as the democratically elected Prime Minister even if his votes belonged to outside Tehran which you dismiss as unreliable. Furthermore, you said unequivocally that Mossadegh was right to dissolve parliament because its members were corrupt and unrepresentative. This would also therefore include Mossadegh's base of support both inside and outside Tehran. If the whole institution was corrupt and worthy of dismissal then this would automatically negate the legitimacy of Mossadegh's rule. Also there was no mandate given to Mossadegh in order to take this task upon hismelf.

You could not be more wrong about Reza Shah. Reza Shah embodied the highest virtues of Iranian courage and manliness in contrast to Mossadegh's whimpering madness and tempestuous moods ranging  from euphoria to Hitler style harangues.By today's standards Reza Shah was a dictaror with the negative connotations which were associated with this label but at the time prime misters  actually wanted to be addressed as such. Tough and even cruel Reza Shah managed to stop the country becoming fragmented by destroying small time communist rebels like Mirza Kuchik Khan in Gilan in the north of Iran and stopped the British plans to allow Khuzestan to break away and become annexed to Arabia. It was Reza Khan's ruthlessness that was feared and necessary to stop the country from falling apart. This is something the entire nation owes a debt of gratitude which can never be repaid.Ifthis task was left to Mossadegh and his pyjamas then Iran as we knew it would be Azarbaijan, Baluchestan, Kurdiastan and Arabestan surrounding the tiny republic of Fars. 

It was Reza Shah's ruthlessness that kept the clergy and filthy Islamists in order and had this tough line been continued with the last Shah both you and I would be having this conversation in Iran. Reza Shah achievements towered  over any ruler of Iran since Nader Shah in the eighteenth century and certinly above that of Mossadegh. What was Mossadegh's achievement? : Throw out the Britian then what do you do with the oil rigs and who was going to do the drilling? You  have designated Mossadegh to the status of a Napolean or Ghandi but he never was either of them. A well meaning and even patriotic man - Mossadegh achieved nothing. 

Trust me Msasoud, I am right. You and the Iranian Left have been proven wrong time and time again. You were wrong to support an uprising against the Shah and rally around Khomeini. You were wrong to suppoort the Green's and Mousavi's election campaign which got you nothing. You couldn't be more wrong now. when will you learn?