Is the IRI Really "Independent"?

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Is the IRI Really "Independent"?
by anonymous111.2
15-Sep-2009
 

Whenever I read these pages, I become “reminded”, over and over again, by our resident Islamist friends, that despite all atrocities that have taken place in Iran since the Islamic Republic took power, we should still consider this regime better than the “Shah” because if nothing else, the IRI has brought us “independence”.

Now, I am no fan of the Shah, but is Iran really “independent” under the IRI?  Well, not so much.  Aside from the fact that there really are no more “independent” nations in today’s globalized economic and political systems (at least not in the classical sense which our 1960’s and 1970’s ex-leftist, Che Guevara fans on this site refer to) , the IRI in particular in far from being an “independent” nation.   

The IRI is heavily reliant on Russia and China for support in furthering many aspects of its economy and national security goals.  For instance, it uses those two countries as a shield against more economic sanctions, buys weapons and technology from them.  Case in point, this article on rights to use Caspian Sea resources:

//www.bbc.co.uk/persian/iran/2009/09/090909_mg_caspian_summit_delet.shtml  

The most striking part of the report is where it quotes an Iranian university professor who says that the countries that border the Caspian Sea have had previous agreements regarding that body of water without Iran’s presence, to which Iran has had no objection.  Why didn’t Iran object to agreements regarding Caspian Sea that were executed without its presence?  Well, it just happens that one of the countries that borders the Caspian Sea is Russia.  Is the IRI sacrificing Iran’s territorial interest so that it can gain favor with Russia over its nuclear program?  Obviously.  Is that independence, especially independence from a regional and global superpower which happens to also be Iran’s neighbor?  Of course not.

So, this whole idea of IRI’s glorious independence is a farce.  IRI is no more independent from Russian and Chinese influence than the Shah was from America’s influence.  Shah was part of America’s effort to create hegemony in the Middle East, and the IRI is part of Russia, and especially China’s, efforts to do the same.   

There are many other examples of IRI’s hypocrisy and submission to Russia to further its own interests, such as absolute silence, and even tacit support, of Russia in its massacre of Chechen Muslims (so much for being a defenders of the “omat-e- Islam) and its support of Russia in its aggression against Georgia.

 So, as far as I am concerned, I will wait to see if the IRI stands up to Russia and issues a statement condemning the treatment of Chechens by Russians, or for that matter, I will wait to see the IRI really stand up to Russia (not just “express its disagreement) about these ex parte meetings about the Caspian sea.  I doubt that we will ever see such a move.  After all, a servant will never disobey his master.     

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more from anonymous111.2
 
capt_ayhab

Mr. Anonymus 111-2 edited

by capt_ayhab on

I totally and categorically disagree with your statement when you say Israel is a puppet of US. The reverse might be true but not that.

Being perfectly honest, I have been losing sleep over the fact that these IR vatan foroshs might give up even one grain of sand that belongs to Iranians. 

 

-YT 


capt_ayhab

SamSam

by capt_ayhab on

I think you nailed it dude. Iran been under occupation but IR is independent.

 

-YT 


anonymous111.2

Capt_Ayhab

by anonymous111.2 on

Yes.  Israel is a puppet of the U.S., because it, to a large extent, relies on the U.S. for...well, its survival!

The problem, in my mind, is that the IRI is conceding territory and its independent decision making to Russia and China, which, in turn, make it a puppet state.


capt_ayhab

Mr. Anonymus.111.2

by capt_ayhab on

Definition:

Independent State refers to the set of governing and supportive institutions that have sovereignty over a definite territory and population.

With that in mind, you stated [It is, in that regard, dependent on Russia to keep other Security Council members from paralyzing its econmoy.]

Question, can we say that with your extrapolation, Israel is considered a puppet state of US. Why and why not?

Bare in mind that I am not arguing the fact that Iran is heavily depends on Russia and China for economic suvival. But are any of those countries sent any economic aid to thier puppet state[as you put it]

-YT 

P/S In August 2007, the Bush Administration announced that it would increase U.S. military assistance to Israel by $6 billion over the next decade. The agreement calls for incremental annual increases in FMF to Israel, reaching $3.1 billion a year in the near future. The Administration has requested $2.4 billion in military assistance and
no economic aid for Israel in FY2008. H.R. 2764, the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2008 provides the full Administration request.

//www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf


SamSamIIII

Dear Anonym, yes IRI is independent but not "Iran"

by SamSamIIII on

 

 These are 2 different entity Just as German vs French in German occupied France in which the Germans were independent but not france. The same as Abbasis occupied Iran...etc . For a very intelligent dude like you I,m surprised you didn,t diffrentiate between the two entities :).

"Iran" is currently under occupation by home grown agents of foreign based jehadist ideology of Pan-Ommat .So yes these Jehadists(IRI) are independently screwing the milking cow(Iran).So in that regard, yes ,they are an independent Ommatie gang.

Cheers!!!

 

 

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan

//iranianidentity.blogspot.com

//www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

 


anonymous111.2

It's not just the economy

by anonymous111.2 on

if the IRI has to remain silent when the countries around the Caspian Sea (Russians included) make deals that jeopardize Iran's territorial interests so just so that it can create a manufactured facade of being a "world player".  It is, in that regard, dependent on Russia to keep other Security Council members from paralyzing its econmoy.  In other words, it becomes a puppet of Russia. just like the Shah had a manufactured sense of being a "world player" based on U.S.'s support, which made him a U.S. puppet.

It's kind of like owing money to the mob.  At some point, you'll have to do what they tell you, or if they rape your wife, you have to shut your mouth about it.  That's where the IRI stands with Russia these days.


Faramarz_Fateh

Capt_Ah

by Faramarz_Fateh on

With regards to your last post:

"Russia and China[mostly Russia] have been taking advantage of US embargo on Iran. Same way EU has been profiting tremendously from trading with Iran.

With that said, EU[NATO countries], based on agreement with US do not sell any armaments to Iran. That leaves China , Russia, to some extend N. Korea and Israel[during the war]. It is an undeniable fact that these countries have Iran over the barrel[so to speak] and been selling the arms she needs for an exaggerated prices[almost black market prices]. However this is not true about other commodities, because of the competition they have with EU."

I am in full agreement.  Nothing is wrong.


capt_ayhab

Fateh

by capt_ayhab on

Allow me to return the favor, I am amazed that I have to agree with what you said about Iranian economy. ;-)

Russia and China[mostly Russia] have been taking advantage of US embargo on Iran. Same way EU has been profiting tremendously from trading with Iran.

With that said, EU[NATO countries], based on agreement with US do not sell any armaments to Iran. That leaves China , Russia,  to some extend N. Korea and Israel[during the war]. It is an undeniable fact that these countries have Iran over the barrel[so to speak] and been selling the arms she needs for an exaggerated prices[almost black market prices]. However this is not true about other commodities, because of the competition they have with EU.

Now FateHead, what part of my statement in wrong? I presented a general statement, assuming you are in the [bagh], I suppose I should have included this comment with the first one.

 

 

-YT 


XerXes

faramarz sounds like programmer craig

by XerXes on

Who will foam in the mouth when speaks about Military might of US against Iraq!!


Faramarz_Fateh

Partnership?! I beg to differ

by Faramarz_Fateh on

IRI is sure as shit spending $ with the Russians and the Chinese like a sailor in a whorehouse.

But in this so called partnership, what is it that Iran is selling to Russians and the Chinese besides oil and gas to the Chinese at ultra low prices?

Capt_Ah, as Muslim you need to be fair minded.  How could you come up with such utterly false statements?  Its the Ramadan for God sake.


capt_ayhab

IR dependent?

by capt_ayhab on

Political Independence vs  Economic partnership/dependence.

I believe some dear contributors  have  confused these two totally different notions. If question is whether IR is politically independent, then as much as we hate to admit, but at least with all the events we have seen happening in Iran in past 30 years then one must admit that they are in fact politically independent and one track minded. Even US department of states classifies Iran as an independent country. 

Even Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan who are for all practical purposes under the occupation by US are considered an independent countries. In case of Saudi Arabia, it is a known fact that US has military presence in that country in form of air bases and military advisers. Same can be said about Kuwait.

Economical dependence/partnership is on the other hand totally different issue. There is not one single country in the world now which does not have some sort of strong economic relation with at least dozen other countries. From trading food, to consumer products, to  heavy industry to technology, and etc etc.

In 2008 US imported $337.8 Billion from China[More than Iran's Total GNP] and exported only $71.5billion to her, having the trade deficit of $-266.3. China, after opening up the relations with west and particularly US[Nixon Presidency] was placed on [most Favorable Trade Partner Status], hence opening up the flood gates of [Imported] technology and know how.

Are we to say US or China  are not  independent countries?

-YT 


farokh2000

Independent, sure they are!

by farokh2000 on

The Mullahs were brought in by CIA to begin with.

When the late Shah got a bigger ego than he could handel, he was told to pack up and leave.

CIA had protected Khomieni in Safe Houses in Iraq and Paris for over 25 years for this day, when Shah's "Usefulness" would expire.

They brought in the Mullahs, then the 8 Year War with Iraq was set up to keep people down and distracted in order for the Mullahs to solidify their power and kill all their opposition.

Meanwhile, the WMD sales by the West to ME, especially to Saddam directly and the criminal Mullahs indireclty went up like crazy.

Independent?, right!


Faramarz_Fateh

Ostaad, come up with your own lines dude...and

by Faramarz_Fateh on

you really are living in an imaginary world. 

First of all, a missile is not "founded"!  Secondly, if Iranian missiles could take out crap, your Palestinian buddies would have used them against Israel before they pounded them into oblivion a couple  years ago.

Controlled solid fuel propulsion technology is 100% Russian.  Not an achievement of the IRI except they paid oil $ to buy it.

Finally, who is this enemy thats being kept at bay?  The U.S.?  Are you freaking kidding me?  How much of a moron could you be to assert that?

A total of 30-36 nuclear missiles fired from a couple of U.S. submarines is enough to make Iran into a dirt parking lot.  As I have said before, the reason the U.S. will never take that action is because around half of Americans are decent humane people who won't allow their government to take such action.

Any, and I repeat any aggression by IRI towards U.S or Israel is the end of IRI.  That is why them and cowards like you have been zer zering about Israel for the past 30 years but have continued to eat their crap mean while.

 

 


Ostaad

Faramarz jaan, you seem to be perfected the art of...

by Ostaad on

brainfart-generated thrust to keep your araajeef blown around in a consitent manner. I congratulate you on that achievement. Currious to know what kind of beans you feed on?

Can you tell me without German technology where the US rocketry would be today? Technology is learned, bought or stolen. I wonder if you can produce another one of your brainfarts to point out alternative ways to acquire technology.

So far Russian armament technology seems to be keeping all Iran's enemies at bay. If not ask Yabu who is wetting his pants every time he thinks about S-300 thingies.

BTW, so you'd know, and I'm sure it is going to perplex you, "old" technology does not mean bad technology. I have never heard anyone who understand Technology to present a view THAT silly, and saying silly things like that shows you don't know beans about technology to have a rational and informed view about it. Technology either works or doesn't, and THAT should be the determining factor nothing else. 

This may help you understand what's going on:

According to Uzi Rubin, founder of the Arrow
missile and a former head of the Homa Missile Defense Agency, Iran can
also take unguided rockets like the Zelzal - which are also in
Hizbullah's hands - and turn them into guided rockets with ranges
topping 220 km.

"This is an original Iranian project; we don't see it anywhere
else," Rubin noted in a recent briefing at the Jerusalem Center for
Public Affairs.

The second major breakthrough is in the propulsion systems, which Iran has succeeded in upgrading from liquid to solid fuel.

 

Source: //iranian.com/main/news/2009/09/14/israel...


XerXes

Is the IRI Really "Independent"?

by XerXes on

double post


XerXes

Is the IRI Really "Independent"?

by XerXes on

Iran today for the first time before ghajar era, is politically independent country. This means that Iran decides how to act and react to the world and is not getting the orders as the rest of the ME (Specially Egypt, Saudi, Jordan, Bahrain, Kuwait, qatar, Ukrain, Most of the Central asia countries). This is not a economical dependency base since the world is connected by trade. Do countries ally and try to militarily strengthen their position by sharing interests? YES, all countries do that only when they are politically independent. Can Saudi decide to change course tomorrow or stop supporting the US military in the region? IMPOSSIBLE, because they are puppets. Iran is not.

So to give you a very short answer, I, XerXes, Declare that today Iran, besides its social/economic turmoil, is a fully and completely independent State. We are no Nokar to any country, politically, period.


Maryam Hojjat

Criminal IRI

by Maryam Hojjat on

I agree with you that IRI not only is independent but needs Russia badly. IRI Has been selling IRAN's wealth to the IRAN's worst enemy for past 30 years.  IRI has been milked by Russia in its ambition on nuclear activities for more than 30 years.  These mullah are the one who let Russia took more than 600,000 KM of Iran's territories.

 

Irony is here that I do not trust Russian technology and I am afraid of incident such as Chernobil in IRAN.

May GOD have Mercy on this Arian Nation.

Payandeh IRAN & IRANIANS


anonymous111.2

Irandokht

by anonymous111.2 on

That's funny.  Also, if you look at Putin, it looks like he's about to pass out!!!  A little too much Stoli if you ask me.

 :-)


IRANdokht

Didn't read your blog yet...

by IRANdokht on

but the picture reminds me of a song

بیا برویم از این ولایت منو تو
تو دست منو بگیر و من دامن تو

 

IRANdokht


Faramarz_Fateh

Ostaad jan, how long has it

by Faramarz_Fateh on

taken you to create the imaginary world you live in?

Without Russian technology, IRI could not develop a mid range rocket if all Mullahs ate beans for lunch and dinner for 3 months and collectively farted to create the thrust needed.  The same Russians provided 98% of the technology for anything nuclear in Iran.  Of course this was 30 year old tech.

Do you really think the U.S. is "afraid" of the IRI?  Seriously?   In your warped view IRI has "stood up" to the West?!  How so?  Militarily or economically?

You are a joke and so is your response. 

 


anonymous111.2

Ostaad

by anonymous111.2 on

Without getting too much into your "comment", here is your quote:

"In regard to your reference to the recent Caspian see meeting that Iran was not asked to attend, Iran did object and its objection was considered favorably. Therefore, your claim that Iran is sacrificing Iran's territorial integrity is patently false."

What I actually said was:

"The most striking part of the report is where it quotes an Iranian university professor who says that the countries that border the Caspian Sea have had previous agreements regarding that body of water without Iran’s presence, to which Iran has had no objection."

And here's the quote that I was referring to:

اما پیروز مجتهدزاده، استاد جغرافیای سیاسی و ژئوپلیتیک دانشگاه تربیت مدرس تهران، می گوید ۴ کشور ساحلی پیش از این هم توافق های دو و سه جانبه داشته اند که ایران به آن اعتراض جدی نداشته است

And as far as your statement about Chechnya, this is what you say:

"Iran did try to lend moral support..."

Priceless!!!  The IRI is taking Iran toward a nuclear holocaust with Israel over the Palestinian issue, but Chechans only deserve "moral support".  I guess the degree of support depends on whether or not one receives weapons, such as TOR anti-aircraft missles from the aggressor!!!! 


Ostaad

I'm afraid you are asking the wrong question...

by Ostaad on

Your confusion about Iran's independece is very apparent in your statement, "... is Iran really “independent” under the IRI?  Well, not so much.  Aside
from the fact that there really are no more “independent” nations in
today’s globalized economic and political systems (at least not in the
classical sense which our 1960’s and 1970’s ex-leftist, Che Guevara
fans on this site refer to) , the IRI in particular in far from being
an “independent” nation.

I am not sure what you mean by "really independent", considering you are aware that there's no such a thing as "real independence" in an inter-dependent world. The yard stick to measure how "sovereign" the countries are today is how much of their national interests they can interject and safeguard in their relations with other countries. In that respect Iran has come a long way and cannot be compared to the Shah's time, when he tried but failed to increase the share of Iran's national interests vis-a-vis the US and UK in particular. Therefore Iran's role to safeguard the US hegemony in the Persian Gulf region took a subservient role, but Iran now is playing major military, political and economic roles in the region on its own terms.

In regard to your reference to the recent Caspian see meeting that Iran was not asked to attend, Iran did object and its objection was considered favorably. Therefore, your claim that Iran is sacrificing Iran's territorial integrity is patently false.

Please see:

//iranian.com/main/news/2009/09/13/no-dis...

Also I disagree with your statement that Iran is more "dependent" on Russia and China than the Shah was on the US. Iran has strong and deep working relations with those countries and each side can "influence" the other just like many allies behave towards each other.  Iran's current relations with other countries in general and Russia and China in particular are vastly different because Iran has been able to insert its national interests in its relations with others whereas Iran's relations with the "big powers" was based on imposing THEIR interests on Iran.  In other words there is no comparison between Iran's role to establish

Turning to Chechnya, here is where your ignorance about the situaltion sticks out like a sore thumb. Here's the deal; Chechens fighters are staunch Saudi allies who are squarely in the Sallafi/Wahabbi anti-Iran and anti-Shieh jihadi camps. Iran did try to lend moral support to the Chechen cause at the early stages of their uprising against Russia, but the Chechen had made their own policy, and Iran had to respect their "choice" for moral and financial support.

In short EU depends on Russian energy resources and the US depends on China's low-cost manufacturing to keep prices affordable for their consumers. Can you say the EU and the US have lost their independence for relying on these countries to sustain their economic status?

I hope you'll think twice before throwing such cheap shot at Iran. 

BTW, your choice of the picture to go with you blog, speaks loudly about your lack of understanding about what goes on between Iran and Russia. 

 

 


anonymous111.2

Thanks Mehrban

by anonymous111.2 on

for your comment.


Mehrban

IR has stood up to the West (maybe)

by Mehrban on

this in their mind spells Independence.  This is an important blog.  Thank you for writting it.