Sic Semper Tyrannis

Animal Rights Activism

Is the hobby of the pampered rich. 

I don't want to totaly dismiss its worth or relevance, but one obviously has to have achieved a certain living standard before one can even start to worry about these things.

Its a privileg to be able to - it doesn't necessarily make you superior. 

Thanks! ;)

I'm glad about these debates too! They question all sorts of things on the site. Quite encouraging.

Well written article by a devout Muslim on the issue

I totally agree

with AO on this point except you left out a few. Suicide bombings; mosque bombings; newspaper bombings ... 

Not to mention whining about "intolerance" if people dare question them.

My comment

Below regarding the fact that ritual slaughter of animals exists in Judaism has been flagged. It appears the Zionist-AIPAC war-party lobbyists here don't like this fact pointed out to them.

Thank you as always Bahram G

For your unbiased comment.  We don't have to agree on issues.  We can have a civil discussion of the issue without name calling, accusations, etc.  many people on this thread have strongly disagreed with me (such as Mammad, HFB, etc.).  I have no problems with them expressing their views whatsoever.  They are entitled to their respective opinions.  

Once you get beyond the shock value and get to the point (see Hamsadeh's comment below), the question becomes this (which I have asked several times in the comments section already): why can't Islam reform the sacrifice rule and change it into a chraitable donation, or at least an option for a charitable donation in lieu of the slaughter?  That is the essential question.

PS- if the excuse is that the meat feeds the needy--which, BTW, was not the intention of the sacrifice rule to beging with--a money donation will go much farther in achieving that goal.  Meat may give the poor a meal or two.  Money donation can go toward building shelter, buying clothes, building schools (if put togetherand used collectively), etc.   

Who benefits?

As I read the various comments by the participants, I realized that some people are not going to give an inch, much less change their views. So, did AO waste his time and that of everyone else? No. I believe that many readers who did not comment were the big beneficiaries. Since, hopefully, they used their heads they could decide the merits of the positions for themselves. And that's what education is all about for those who assess things for themselves and with open mind.
I thank AO and all others who took time and presented their positions in a civil and logical manners.

Fesenjoon Jaan

Fesenjoon -  Dude, I saw the woman in the video that you posted talking about "thighing."  What a brave woman.  She was on Al-Arabiyeh talking about it.  Is she still alive?  She has not been beheaded yet?  Is she in hiding?  Do you know who she is? 

Divaneh, Iran first, HG, OON Yaroo & TS-9

Divaneh and Iranfirst: Thank you for your comments.  Very funny and to the point.  Divaneh jaan did you notice that right away, we had one member of the ommat-e hezbollah jump in with one her multiple usernames and start talking about AIPAC?  How funny!  :-))

HG-  Thanks for this explanation to the masses:

having read blogs/comments by a.o. (the author of this blog), i'm not surprised that he uses shock value to deliver a message.  it's akin to parody.  you're not supposed to take details of his blog (or a parody for that matter) too seriously and pay attention to the point he's trying to make.  if you can't do that, then perhaps participation in this type of blog is not healthy for you.

FINALLY - someone who gets it!!!!  Thank you---seriously, I mean it man.  

Oon Yaroo - Thanks for the kind words.  I had a similar experience.  That's why I'm a vegan.  I will elaborate more later.

TS-9.  Thanks my friend.  Advocating for animals and studying and researching animal behavior is what I do day in and day out.

I wonder

If there has ever been a study on the number of animals sacrificed each year during Eid-Al Adhha around the world.  Must be in the millions.  Someone should do a study and compare it to the meat consumption figures and the number of animals slaughtered during the year in the same countries and also in other countries with similar populations.  The study could be very revealing, but perhaps very dangerous for the researcher(s).  There will probably be fatwas issued against hime/her/them. 

JK - while the blog makes specific reference

to the fact that animal sacrifice in Abrahamic religions began with Jews (something that is apparently lost on people who keep bringing it up as if I didn't mention it before), Islam remains the only religion that requires mass animal sacrifice every year at every Hajj cycle.  The practice is totally unnecessary and has nothing to do with meat consupmtion.  Plus, almost all Muslim countries, including Iran and Saudi Arabia, also have industrial meat production as well.  So, why can't you just answer Hamsadeh's question?

Also, the question that I posed at the beginning of this blog, in one of the comments was this: why can't islam reform itself to the point of replacing this act with a charitable donation instead?  Other major religions have done away with the practice.   Why can't Islam doe the same?  This is just a part of the larger pattern of Islam's anti-reform clusterfuck that is contributing to extremism and backwardness.

For the record, I'm also against hunting.  I don't think that serves a purpose either.  I'm a gun owner myself, but I go to the shooting range.  No need for me to shoot anything live.

Lots of Upper Class Iranians...

.... like their Western counterparts, are a bunch of unsympathetic f-cks towards their own people.

They can sympathize with a god damn animal, but not with a poor member of their own. 

What's REALLY Inhuman

... is this privileged detachment from reality that the upper class has.

Public Slaughtering - What's the Big Deal?

Its more honest, because people see it.

This is what a hunter does: he hunts his own meat, and then he butchers it, too.

I'm sorry, but I admire that.

If you're going to eat meat, be willing to kill the animal yourself. 

Do you recon that these couch potatoes who shop for packaged meat and then gorge on meat that they didn't raise or kill, so that they're all fat like a pre-slaughter animal themselves, but who can't bring themselves to even think about causing an animal pain, are really that impressive or are being honest with themselves? 

jahan, i know all

jahan, i know all meat-eaters eat meat that is slaughtered, one way or another (ciruclar reasoning).  tehranis or not sheep herders nor do they keep sheep in their concrete yards so that they may slaughter them on certain occasions.  they buy it from a livestock dealer and it's delivered to their house and slaughtered for them.  i'm talking about slaughtering animals in the streets in public view.  i've lived in the u.s. for many years and never witnessed it (i think there even may be laws against it). maybe i wasn't clear; my question is: are there any countries where christian and jews slaughter the animals in their neighborhoods as a norm (like muslims do)?

sacrificing definitely has religious origins whether it's the incas in peru, the romans, greeks, arabs, iranians or ....  on the other hand, i agree that eating meat is not originated in a religious belief.

This Sort of Criticism Shows...

.... that Iranians here in the West who malign Islam are probably way out of touch with many ordinary Iranians back home.

What would you have villagers do with their sheep, if not slaughter them themselves?

Should they travel to a special non-existent slaugherhouse? 

The people there have worse things to worry about than how they look to you. 

hamsade ghadimi

Jews and Christians in the Middle East have slaughtered their own animals themselves, too - though they may now be rich enough to be able to hire someone else to do it. 

It probably doesn't have as much to do with religion as some people are pretending. 

In the West, of course, this whole business is industrialized. People don't typically own sheep or goats any more, like in the Middle East - not even in rural areas.

No one raises or buys the animal and slaughters it themselves, the way it was in the old days. 

Most meat is now produced in a very industrial way.

The consumer at the other end is a fat couch potato who consumes way more meat than any Muslim in the Middle East - and so consequently causes more suffering to animals than any Muslim does. 

Nor does this couch potato do his own dirty work. So he or she consequently doesn't value the meat as much as those Muslims in the Middle East do, and wastes a lot more food, too. 

iranfirst and divaneh,

iranfirst and divaneh, funniest and most original comments, respectively. 

we've heard from some who've witnessed the act at their home or neighborhood.  all have admitted that it was an unpleasant memory and they hold the spectrum of political beliefs. i personally haven't witnessed it and the ritual has not been a custom in my extended family.  even if the meat is meted out to the needy, i think the slaughter in public is barbaric. at any rate, looks like there's a long way before we can engage some in human rights. :)

question for those who aren't "ignorant" about these matters.  do the jews slaughter animals in their neighborhoods?  how about christians? do arabs prefer slaughtering sheep or other animals like camels or goats?  i'll just leave it with these three semitic religions.

Iran first

That was just so so so funny. You made my night so funny Thank U

Well

Anonymous observer is fully entitled to express his opinions, whatever they are. 

I guess other cultures and

I guess other cultures and people of other religions hunting and killing animals since the dawn of history is OK, but if Muslims do it, they’re “Barbarians”!!

I guess Zoroastrians and Buddhists and Shinto and Hindu and others don’t do that. Just blame the “dirty Arabic Islam”..!! Those savage Arabs/Muslims!!!

As I’ve said before, this only means one and one thing only: for many Iranians, Iranian nationalism means intolerance, bigotry, racism, hatred and ignorance. That’s just the reality. For many, all of the mentioned is ingrained and institutionalized in who they are, and this is one of the root causes of Iran’s ills historically. Those Iranians don’t understand how dangerous and how serious their ideas are, and also, how destructive it is for building a future Iran. Instead of looking for conspiracy theories to answer why IRI is in power and blaming it on CIA, MI, BBC, Arabs, Islam…..look into yourself, and see how this culture of bigotry and intolerance have destroyed Iran.

Belittling and looking down on others, for example whom you would call Ommol/Mazhabi/Dahati/”Arab zadeh”/Islami…will only radicalized them, and that’s the story of the Iranian revolution 1979. The marginalized, belittled, oppressed by the hand of bigots who were in control, revolted and that lead to them taking over and imposing their own brand of extremism and intolerance.

Extremism only results in more extremism. And we are an extremist people.

It is easy to bash Islam these days, I get it. Since 1979 revolution, Islam has been portrayed as an extremist ideology because of what IRI has displayed in the name of Islam. The ironic part is, Shiteism and what IRI has shown has little to do with Islam, and in fact, has more to do with Zoroastrianism. But then again, Akhoonds, as some Iranians, are masters of kniving and charlatanism.

No Kidding, Antiwar

I seem to recall that the film "Der Ewige Jude" had a scene something like what Anonymous has here, showing Jewish Kosher slaughter (which is for practical purposes the same as Halal slaughter), and denouncing Judaism as barbaric.

Anonymous

Apparently Zionist-AIPAC "war-party" handlers left out the part about Jewish ritual slaughter of animals or that animal sacrifice was one of the pillars of Jewish practice during the Temple period.

Anonymous Observer

The butchering of an animal for its meat with an added religious ritual and symbolism has nothing to do with the public executions of people who may have deserved it.

I'm always surprised

When I see people who comment on a thread without actually reading it.  For nature's sake, this blog is five sentences long.  How can you not read it?  I have multiple people who have so far commented by pointing out that animal sacrifice did not start with Islam.  That appears to be their main objection to this blog.  Did you read the blog?  It says exactly that in no uncertain language.  

Will be back with mor response.  Got to go out for a run. 

Ayatoilet - please take your comments to the toilet

where they belong.  Where did 9/11 come into this?!!!  Look buddy, I have devoted my entire adult life to studying and protecting animals.  Went to college and graduate school for 8 years to learn how to protect them.   Gratuitous slaughtering of millions of animals to please some vengeful desert God is one of the most inhumane acts committed by a bunch of morons who think that this senseless spilling of innocent blood is their gateway to eternal life, endless sex and rivers of milk and honey.

As TL pointed out, I am a vegan.  Have been since I was 12.  I am also an advocate for ethical treatment of animals.  In fact, the only things that I have ever lobbied for (strangely, wasn't the "Zionist" lobby :-)) has been for improved conditions and stricter inspections in the area that you talk about: indsutrial animal farming.  I have appeared before a federal panel and have extensively lobbied politicians (pro bono of course).

But to equate meat production to feed a population to senselss "sacrifice" of animals so that you can go to heaven is beyond comparing appales and oranges.  It's simply idiotic.  

Anyway, perhaps this is the solution for the future:

//www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15403454

Islam is About Butchering Animals?

Leaving aside the ridiculous implication that slaughtering animals was invented by Islam - a least the people in the picture are butchering their own meat.

I find that less hypocritical than the people who are squeamish about hurting animals, but who buy meat at the store that someone else has killed for them. 

Anonymous Observer, you are right, Islam is simply barbaric!

For as long as the memory can take me back to the elementary school, I recall our religion (i.e., TaaliMaat'e Dinee) teacher used to teach us about the barbarity of Muhammad and his beheading of hundreds of so-called infidels on a daily basis!

So, this comes from a person who comes from what it used to be a religious family.

Repeat after me, Islam is barbaric to its very core!

Sacrificing sheep was prevalent in all neighborhoods including ours.

More disgusting, barbaric, and primitive than the killing of the animal, was the process of skinning, castration, and emptying its stomach.

The grotesque smell of the intestines would fill the entire neighborhood and the rest is just vomitizing for me to remember....

Don't let the chic and progressive Muslim gang bother you.

You are just doing great!

Never expect logic from a religious person

I wonder if those who beat their chests for Islam realize how daft their answers are. These are a few examples.

Q. Why do you sacrifice lamb for the god? Don't you think it is daft?

A. Christian and Jews have it too. In fact it comes from their book.

Q. Don't you think slaughtering animals as a religious duty is just weird?

A. You eat meat, don't you?

Q. Why IRI promotes violence and kills those who are against it?

A. Americans also kill people in war. Israelis kill too.

Q. Do you agree that Akhonds and their backward religion has destroyed Iran?

A. We had two good Akhonds in our history.

So what if others do it, what is your excuse? Eating meat or using animal products has nothing to do with spilling blood to satisfy an ever angry god. The first one is for a physical need and the second one is the result of ignorance and devotions to unreasonable and unjustifiable self-imposed religious rules.

Unfortunately, you can't expect any sense from these people. Qualified and educated is not the same thing. Their views are blurred and their only objective is to defend what they have been taught as a child.

You May be a Muslim (Jeff Foxworthy Style)

 You May be a Muslim

1. You may be a Muslim.....If You refine heroin for a living, but you have a moral objection to liquor.

2. You may be a Muslim.....If You own a $3,000 machine gun and $5,000 rocket launcher, but you can’t afford shoes.

3.You may be a Muslim.....If You have more wives than teeth.

4.You may be a Muslim.....If You wipe your butt with your bare hand, but consider bacon unclean.

5.You may be a Muslim.....If You think vests come in two styles: bullet-proof and suicide.

6.You may be a Muslim.....If You can’t think of anyone you haven’t declared Jihad against.

7.You may be a Muslim.....If You consider television dangerous, but routinely carry explosives in your clothing.

8.You may be a Muslim.....If You were amazed to discover that cell phones have uses other than setting off roadside bombs.

9.You may be a Muslim.....If You have nothing against women and think every man should own at least four.

10.You may be a Muslim.....If you are hungry, but then you kill millions of sheep and bury them under sand during Hajj.

11.You may be a Muslim.....If You find this offensive or racist and don’t forward it.