Nostalgia

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Sorry but you not even close. Iranian modernity has a history and character all its own. Keep in mind when Habermas notes how the Romans 2000 years ago considered themselves modern, using that exact same word. Achaemenids were in more than one sense a few hunderd years ahead of Romans, see works of Aramesh Dostar.

Besides the temporal dimension of the concept, as far as the substance of Iranian Modernism is concerned lets just say by now we have a century of Modern Iranian Culture, is it the dominant trend? no, but it has always been present as an alternative and always conquering new artistic height, its own reality. end of the lecture.

And why you sound so much like a polite DA?

Mash Ghasem

There is no question that Iran is still a predominantly traditional society, it is more modern than Afghanistan, but still very traditional. That does not mean that modernism has not been introduced to Iran, but it still has a long way to go to at least balance itself with modernity.

I have no doubt that in Iran today, some artists create very original and self-expressive work, but in terms of a Nation's psyche, such people are far from defining it.

Had you read my pervious comments, you would realise, that my main point was how the use of language not only indicates, but also impacts how we think. For the gist of my comment, I would like to refer you again to the final sentence of my pervious comment.

And finally, about the quote you highlighted, the operative word was VALUE. We might very well have self expressive work produced in Iran, but it still is not valued to the same extent that traditional work is by the Nation.

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NK, you're partially correct, the version that became very popular was by Gogosh, but if you pay close attention to the "SH" sound pronounciation in here, you'll remember that the only on in the world that sang it like that was Ahdieh.

RW, there's was always a very strong 'minority' Alternative Cinema in Iran: Kimiaey, Kimiavi, Mehrjoiey, Bayzaie, Shahidsales,...

Princess, Oreintalism Abound :"in traditional societies like Iran...,we still have not discovered the value of self-expression..."

How about, societies like Iran with a dominant traditional culture. That way you leave room for all the 'non-traditional' poor things that have sprung up in Iran from Ghoratol'ain to Iranian Lesbians and TGs.

There are thousands and thoudans of works of self expression in traditional and modern Iranian arts and letters, an appreciation of such non-traditional contributions is due.

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deleted

Thanks for answering my question, Ari!

Differentiating between inspired vs. self-expressed works of art is an apt description of one of the discrepancies between the traditional and modern societies. In seems to me, that in the traditional sense the artist serves as a vessel to translate divinity into art, and in some sense bears less “responsibility” (for the lack of a better word) than her/his modern counterparts where art is an intensely individualistic process defining a perspective, which puts the individual at the center of the work. In the West this shift in thinking started with the Renaissance Movement and continues today. When Heidegger reformulates the question of “What is Art?” into “When is it Art?” he puts the responsibility of art and its creation into the domain of men. Then you have someone like Duchamp who decides a urinal is a piece of art, worthy of being displayed in an exhibition.

As you highlighted, it seems like in traditional societies like Iran and Afghanistan, we still have not discovered the value of self-expression, hence the way we use “man daraavordi”. I only hope that one day this term can be used in a positive sense, as I think that would be indicative of a significant shift in our thinking.

thanks Ari for your comment

Just like some people believe that any great poem is out there and one poet "catches" it. Gilbert; American writer, had an interesting video on this subject a while ago that was posted on facebook. In this way of thinking, artists don't have to worry about their bad works either. However, did those who coin the  expression "man dar avardi", know about this concept of genius? Any way, man-made or out there as a divine form, many of us come to agreement on great works of art.  

Anahid, Princess

 As is the nature of finds, they happen suddenly. One moment you have no idea it is there, the next, voila! This led American literary critic Edwin Percy Whipple (19th century)  to comment,

"Talent jogs to conclusions to which genius takes giant leaps."

In this way of thinking, a "man dar avardi" work could someday be coaxed to have a positive meaning in the sense of an attention- worthy self constructed object by a talented person, but never a work of genius, which will always have the spectacular quality of a dawn--even in a society where individualism is the ruling spirit.

Maybe Afghans don't want to settle for anything less than genius :)

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JJ, I agree completely that there is no originality or merit to the Kaj Kolaa Khan piece, the point I have tried to make is a slightly different one. I wonder if using the term "mandar aavordi" in such contexts says something about our psyche and our take on innovation and originality. I am observing a more extreme form of it here in Afghanistan, where the smallest deviation from what is considered the norm is resisted with all might. :)

Ari, Thanks! I agree with all your translations, but still woner why we use the term "man dar aavordi for "winging it".

Anahid, you got my point! Thanks. :)

Good point Princess

may be "man dar avardi" is not a good word to describe these kind of works with. As you correctly note, every original work is "man dar avardi".

Princess

I use man dar avardi for  "winging it, "Imaan Verdi for "Italian opera fight scenes," and ebtekaari for "original."

Bad copy

It's not entirely mandaravordi. This and many other Iranian films were bad copies of Hollywood productions. They just followed a formula with very little originality. This song and dance is our version of Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire :)

Khob shod

Keh enghelab shod, va ellah oza khaili kharab mishod.

من در آوردی

I agree with everyone who considers this crap, with no merit nor orginality.

I also question if this is the right place to start a discussion about something that has been on my mind for a while, but since one of the comments here brought the question up again, I wonder if anybody can tell me what the term "man dar aavordi" or "man dar aari", the way we use it in Farsi, really means.

It occurs to me that anything new or original must be "man dar aavordi", but the way we use it is rather derogetory. I don't know if it has an equivalent in any other language. How do you think the way we use this terminalogy affects our take on originality or innovation.

I would be interested in your opinions.

Well observed, RedWine

The producers effectively imposed a censorship on films, they in turn being subject to the "censorship" of the market. What our filmmakers had not yet learned was how to speak their ideas despite the censorship, (market imposed or otherwise) an adaptation which some post-revolution directors were able to make. An adaptation, by the way, that Hollywood made very early on. 

؟ بانو عهدیه یا گوگوش جان

فکر میکردم که این آهنگ برای گوگوش جان گفته و ساخته شده بوده!؟ 

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در آن زمان،از بازارچه سد اسمال تا به خود دروازه شمیران.. امکان بهتر از این وجود نداشت،آنچنان با قیچی به جان فیلم و سناریو می‌‌افتادند که وقتی‌ به سینما میرسید دیگر از اصل جریان چیزی باقی‌ نمی‌‌مانید.

داستانها میبایستی اینجور می‌بودند،آبدوغ خیاری و ۶/۸ فراوان ! شاید به این چنین میخواستند که جوانان ایران زمین به دنبال دکترین مارکس و لنین نروند و یکهو به دامان اسلامیون پناه گیرند،در مملکتی که شاهش حاجی بود و حاجیش به فکر تیغ زدن مال مردم... از این بهتر هم نمیتوانستند فیلم سازند،حال چگونه گاو و قیصر قسر در رفتند، الله اعلم !

خداوند بیک ایمانوردی را رحمت کند و عمری به سرکار خانم جمیله دهد .

بسیار مزخرف

از رقص و  من در آوردی تا لهجه من در آوردی

همش مزخرف...کاش آنزمان هم وزارت ارشاد وجود داشت...

بی حد مزخرف

شیرین

i love it

when people were happy great dance and song

The most mobtazal one!

What a shame.........

Don't tilt your eyebrow towards me, Kaj Kolah Khan is my buddy

and ver eis dis DM ven you nyd him?

Give some credit to the poor singer as well, the one and only Ahdieh.

Cheshshshshmato  to on  cheshshshshat vaghti khomar mikonam,..