Islam's Kettle Calling Christianity's Teapot Black

Islam wants to change Americans and they kind of don't want to

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Islam's Kettle Calling Christianity's Teapot Black
by bahmani
31-Aug-2010
 

I recently watched a vlog by Reza Aslan on the intolerance of the west towards Islam. I hear Reza's point but have to beg to differ with him on the real issue as I see it. Also I find it hard to take him seriously on any of his well put arguments, while he hangs a painting of a woman wearing the most inarguably oppressive symbol of Islam, the chador, on his condo wall.

Dude, I'm sorry, you're never going to sell Islam if you don't ditch the chador.

Islam cannot demand to be accepted by a predominantly Christian society such as the US, when Islam itself is so full of inconsistencies, isn't organized, tolerant, or even regionally relevant.

Reza Aslan is surprised at the US (and Europe) for being intolerant to a new religion? Are you serious? Did you not read the history of this country? Not only have Jews been intolerated, but the same goes for Catholics too! JFK was the first Catholic president, and people thought he would never get elected! Mitt Romney lost the presidency because he was Mormon!

Now you think bringing in a bizarre prayer ritual accompanied by loud bellowing droning wails of guttoral phlegm-tastic sounds coming from public loudspeakers six times a day is a right?

You simply can't do that, even in today's America! You especially can't do that in Tennessee! And the reason you can't do that in the US is not because the US is intolerant. The reason you can't do that in the US today, is because a lot of Islam is intolerant, AND Islam as practiced even commonly, makes absolutely no sense to Americans and the American way of life. And Americans like their way of life and if Islam wants to change it, they kind of don't want to.

Today's Islam in comparison to the sheer organization and logical formality of Christianity is like a child throwing a tantrum demanding to be given a PhD when it can't even speak properly yet, never mind read.

Islam needs reformation. Desperately. It needs to correct all the wrong things with it. It is not a perfect religion (as it continually claims) and has many obvious flaws and broken and counter intuitive logic points that it isn't even possible for it to be taken seriously by Western Christianity, never mind Joe-SixPack or the Plumber.

Need examples?

Besides bacon and shellfish being haram when in fact they are completely halal technically and logically speaking? Why is pork and shellfish halal? Because I actually won't die if I eat them.

Too hard to get your head around pork logic?

OK then, look no further than women's rights. According to Islam, or actually depending on which hadith you buy into, which favorite mullah you follow blindly and unquestioningly, or which surah you choose to reference, the primary defense of a condemned, fallen, or adulterous woman who can be falsely accused by her husband and a friend who merely have to testify her sin against her, is for her to simply deny the charges. She can totally walk away without proving her innocence. That's what the good book says she can do to get out of it.

So explain how the same women in today's supposedly enlightened Islam, accused the same way are utterly denied what the Koran prescribes? And how they are not only frequently stoned, but often executed simply by the decree of an unauthorized mullah, and worse, not given even a civil trial in which to prove innocence. And what about being innocent until proven guilty? This is the kind of outrage that an Islam that conveniently chooses to not explain itself, inspires today.

In the 21st century, are we to abide by Islamic or sharia laws simply and blindly? Especially if they are completely counter to the evolution of civil laws we have enacted in the West?

If Islam is completely wrong, as the numerous cases of stoned, killed, and imprisoned women attest to, should we accept abidance to Islam or even sharia law? All because an undemocratic, unrealistic, un-free, unlicensed and unauthorized mullah says we should?

In the West today, after 2000 years of solid Christendom, I can believe in Jesus and the Pope, I can be Catholic, I can go to church every Sunday, I can eat pork on Friday, wash it down with a tasty alcoholic beverage of my choice, and go and sleep with my neighbor's wife, causing her to become pregnant and have an abortion and never once worry about being arrested, tried or killed for it.

Is doing that a good thing? Of course not. Is it a mortal sin? Debatably. Does the Church have the right to impose ANY kind of sentence on me? NO. And if in my drunken stupor I tell Father O'Flaherty to f**k off, I don't have to worry one bit that his "choirboys" will slit my throat on my way home from the parish.

The fear that Islam needs to assure everyone of, is that it will be content with being merely a mortal, moral, option. That when a mullah is told to f**k off, he will be content to just take it. Nothing more, not a dominant, required, brutally judgmental overseer on all parts of daily life. Because that is exactly what Islam embodies today.

Until women choose to wear the hejab occasionally to the mosque on Friday prayer (which will have to be moved to Saturdays or Sundays by the way) as a symbolic "veil of purity", rather than because it's the common law, Islam will be just another example of the brutal, intolerant, racist, sexist, unfair, dictatorial, Spanish Inquisition that ruled the world for 900 years until it went out of fashion and collapsed under it's own crimes.

Like Islam is unfortunately now, then too, various factions of Christianity took it upon themselves to determine what "Believer" meant, doling out wildly differing tests of faith and the all too often brutal and fatal punishments accordingly.

The question that needs to be asked (and actually answered by Islam once) is, if Islam wants to be valid in the West, why is it that the (many) brutally oppressive nations who deny their citizens the most basic freedoms, human, and civil rights, proudly call themselves Moslem, and would immediately and violently deny this very same request for a church or (god forbid!) synagogue to be placed at or near Mecca.

For the ultimate inconsistent message of Islam, look no further than the the charlatan posing as the US administration's enlightened foil for Islamic tolerance, Raouf. A Sufi Imam? Sufis are traditionally looked upon with disdain and incredulity in Islam. Are we to now believe that there is a new official sect in Islam called Sufi Islam? Is it sanctioned by Islam proper? Because I did not get the memo. Because there isn't one. Claiming to be a Sufi Imam is like claiming to be a Jewish Gestapo Officer. Technically it's possible, but realistically it's highly irregular.

In the end (is there an end to this debate?), the onus is not upon the West to allow what is proving itself more and more and more than often to be a very very very "crazy radical Islam", into the Cool Club. But for Islam to clean its act up, stop being so weird and brutal on the simplest things like equal rights, prayer technique, food, and the whole what-to-do-about-the-infidel thing.

But proof of just how blind Islam is to it's own indiscreet oppressions, would be for some Christian or Jewish group to apply to set up a YMCA in Mecca.

But that will never happen will it? Even though the bones that the seas of haji-wannabes circle around, desperate for the prestige, braggart, and show-off points you get for completing the haj, even though those are the very bones of Abraham, the original founder and basis of the Jewish and Christian religions, as a Jew or a Christian, or as a non-Moslem, you are merely forbidden to attend.

And that is the definition of intolerance.

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more from bahmani
Kooshan

Re: Waters

by Kooshan on

This is called "safsateh".

 

However, your faith is for you and my faith is for me; But, Islam says, if one transgresses, we are obligated to stand up for our rights. There is no such place for mutiny and corruption!


Kooshan

Re: Persian westender

by Kooshan on

There are millions of muslims walking around and practicing their faith and do not mind to have an agnost or atheist neighbor or a gay coworker.

The growing pain and politics of middle east is another matter and one needs to separate them.

Islam, similar to any other faith,is a tool that can be exploited or misused by anyone who puts his ego before their faith.


Dariush A

Aryana

by Dariush A on

thanks for the link, I will read them. as well as the links by faryam as soon as I get the chance.

 

 


default

High on what?

by Doctor X on

Sirs, we are not here to compete. I merely conveyed the well known claim that Baha'u'llah set forth from His prison cell: that Divine "reformation" was made by the Pen of The Most High to benefit all humanity. Go to www.bahai.org and see how this Faith has spread across the world.   

What does one need to be high on? ha? i am just curious. Looks like buisness of New religions are booming and Hey , I and million others are so unemployed, it ain't even funny. So why not creating something new? Just let me know what substance i need to be high on to get started...


Aryana-Vaeja

Dariush

by Aryana-Vaeja on

//bahaicultfaq.blogspot.com/

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer


Waters

Dont hesitate calling on Zulfi if you are incapable of analyzi

by Waters on

 

zulfi is the only one who can break things down and DICTATE THEM to you and has a morbid fear of allowing you to use your own head. he doesn't thinks you can understand on your own. thats why Zulfi couldn.t make it as a bahai cuz we do our own analyzing. 

Here he says to Dariush A:

"..If you wish anything analysed from these writings, definitely let me know."    


i am a bahai too

A Prophet is Never Heard in His Own Land

by i am a bahai too on

Aryana/Dariush:

Obviously the Baha'i Faith is interesting enough to elict a long list of refutations from your keyboards, ad exhaustium.

Why Sirs?

What is it about the claim of this new, universal Teaching from Iran which completes fullheartedly, all the messianic expectations of Islam, Christianity and Judaism that provokes you?

If it is so untrue, why not leave it alone? What is it about your belief that causes you to insult people personally? How does this prove  your belief to be superior? 

Most unfortunate!

Sirs, we are not here to compete. I merely conveyed the well known claim that Baha'u'llah set forth from His prison cell: that Divine "reformation" was made by the Pen of The Most High to benefit all humanity. Go to www.bahai.org and see how this Faith has spread across the world.   

Alas, a prophet is never heard in His own land! Baha'u'llah was imprisoned in the worst dungeon of Tehran, the Siyah Chal, then ultimately exiled, abused and mistreated in Akka, where is He and His Family were left to die. As a prisoner in an Ottoman prison colony, He had no "business" there.

Gentlemen, do you not emulate the (Shakespearean) sentiment: "Me thinks (s)he doth protest too much?" Don't worry, Baha'is love all Faiths, all people, believers and non-believers alike. We pick no argument with anyone. According to Baha'u'llah, everyone has the right to believe or disbelieve, according to his or her own conscience.

Good day! 


Aryana-Vaeja

Faryar's triumphalism

by Aryana-Vaeja on

Dariush, please note the triumphalism in the overall argument Faryar is presenting. He is asking you to be fair, which is a reasonable demand, yet at the same time he is assuming from his point of view that fairness equates to you uncritically subscribing to his general point of view and the assesment of his religion as the truth. Anything less than that, and in Faryar's mind you are unfair, even if your assesment by any other criteria is neutral or objective. His reasoning is the typical circular reasoning of a fanatic and his overall conclusions tautological where the premises already determine the conclusions he is trying to prove. Do however look at the links Faryar has provided to convince yourself from the Baha'i writings themselves that it ain't all that. Information is always a powerful weapon against religious fundamentalists, Baha'i or Muslim, and the more accurate information people have at their disposal about Bahaism the better they are equipped to answer these fanatics and so soundly refute them.

If you wish anything analysed from these writings, definitely let me know.

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer


faryarm

Dear Dariush

by faryarm on

With Due Respect for your persistence ....

Honestly and quite simply with humility, i ask you to try and gain a little more information about the subject before making judgements. I assure you that this is not about one upmanship , ego and who can win an argument.

We can go on responding to each other..but when one party makes such gross mistakes on facts based on perception , assumptions and heresay, rather than actual research from authentic verifiable sources, it is futile.

One example of your misperception is when yo say "This is again the same logic all the religions use against the previous ones"

Bahai Faith does not consider itself to be against previous religions...Christianity does not consider itself to be against Judasim; nor does Islam to be against Christianity or Judaism.

Then you say :

"I don't think Baha'ullah was anything like Mohammad, Jesus or Moses.  neither was his book."

 

Having said mistakenly that Baha'u'llah "murdered" HIs brother and not knowing your source, exactly how much do you know about Baha'u'llah to know and make such judgement????

when you said "I don't think Baha'ullah was anything like Mohammad, Jesus or Moses.  neither was his book. "

Further, have you actually read any of Baha'u'llah's writings?

because Baha'u'llah's writings , besides His Most Holy Book,  (essentially a book of laws  that are to be constituted when mankind is ready to understand and abide by them) comprise of several volumes. I trust you might reconsider your hasty statement after you have spent more than just a glance (more like a  lifetime ) studying them.

As a reference  please see  

Epistle to the Son of the Wolf     Gems of Divine Mysteries     Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh     The Hidden Words of Bahá'u'lláh     The Kitáb-i-Aqdas (The Most Holy Book)     The Kitáb-i-Íqán (The Book of Certitude)     Prayers and Meditations by Bahá'u'lláh     Proclamation of Bahá'u'lláh     The Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys     The Summons of the Lord of Hosts     The Tabernacle of Unity     Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh Revealed after the Kitáb-i-Aqdas    

 Please remember what I said, and try be fair in your judgement.

regards

faryarm 


Miss Behave

Just outta curiousity

by Miss Behave on

Can one of you who is defending eslam let me know what is so original or redeeming about eslam? I mean even if you take the good parts of its teachings what does eslam say that had not been said by other religions before it?

I'd be much obliged.


Aryana-Vaeja

Waters

by Aryana-Vaeja on

Who are we to say that they are wrong if we follow your logic to the end.

By their fruits ye shall know them!

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer


Waters

Couldn't have said it better

by Waters on

"...I don't think Baha'ullah was anything like Mohammad, Jesus or Moses.  neither was his book.  Perhaps he was a bahmani..."

Thats exactly what all non-moslems think of Mohammad (s), they even say he was inspired by something other than God and they mock him. Who are we to say that they are wrong if we follow your logic to the end. Very well said indeed. 

 


Aryana-Vaeja

Arrogance of Waters

by Aryana-Vaeja on

Dariush A, Bahaulla wanted Muslims to follow his TEACHINGS not him so
they dont end up in the situation they are in today in need of a major
overhaul.

How are teachings such as burning arsonists, washing your feet during summer time or inheritance laws that privilege men over women any improvement over the Islam you think you are better than? Exactly how would've Iran benefitted by a totalitarian state run by a guardian or the UHJ not too dissimilar to the Velayate Faqih system of the present IRI? It wouldn't.

By the way while some souls for the love of 72 bakereh are willing to
selfishly sacrifice men women and children, there are those who
sacrifice themselves so people like Dariush A have a chance to live and
learn.

LOL! This last sentence was hilarious but, sadly, indicative of the same arrogance Baha'is criticize in Muslims. That said, this progressive revelation stuff makes no sense. Zoroastrianism is far more advanced than either exoteric Islam or Baha'ism on multiple levels, and it has been behind all the various erfani developments in Iran. Give me the Gathas of Asha Zarathushtra over Baha'u'llah any day.

Advance does not mean modern, either, which is the only thing Baha'is seem to understand about progress. Why choose between either one of those two when Zoroastrianism and derivatives offer a far more advanced picture of the universe and the human role in it than exoteric Islam or Baha'ism?

Ashem Vohu Manah! Yatha Ahu Vairyo!

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ_VmdywrZY 

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer


Aryana-Vaeja

Dariush A

by Aryana-Vaeja on

Very well stated! Dame shomaa garm!

-

May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer


Dariush A

faryam

by Dariush A on

With all do respect, 

My info about Baha'i faith hasn't been from IRI. i will try to find the source for you, since i don't save the information for days like this.

I said Baha'ullah moved his business to Israel.

You wrote, Israel was established 80 years after Baha'ullah moved there.

Of course. It was Palestine then and now is part of Israel and before that he was in Turkey and before that in Baghdad.

Then you wrote,

If you recognize that religious teachings throughout the ages have been progressive , given according to the needs and conditions of that time, then, yes The Bahai Faith does claim to be the latest , but not the final chapter in the never ending spiritual guidance of our Creator

This is again the same logic all the religions use against the previous ones.  I am glad you said that. at least now we know Islam is more complete than Judaism and Christianity. Then again, Bob came in 1844 or so, now is 2010 and a lot have changed. You all say his teachings are good for the next thousand years. I won't be here then, but I think in a few hundred years you will have the same issues as Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

I don't think Baha'ullah was anything like Mohammad, Jesus or Moses.  neither was his book.  Perhaps he was a bahmani for his time, with his own civil liberty laws (religion) that didn't sit well with the ruling government just as bahmani's doesn't. If bahmani is right today, Baha'ullah was right then.

Then you said, there will be others that will come.

As i said, one came and bahmani with his civil religion burned the hell out of him.  

 


pas-e-pardeh

Dariush -A

by pas-e-pardeh on

well said


Waters

Reform implies inadequacy, imperfection...

by Waters on

Dariush A, Bahaulla wanted Muslims to follow his TEACHINGS not him so they dont end up in the situation they are in today in need of a major overhaul. 

Also reform is supposed to be changing, adding, amending, cutting...in order to make an inadequate idea, more fit. In order to do that one would 1st have to assume that Quran has faults (astaghfor..) then one would need a pool of new ideas, ways and concepts to copy from. Who are the suppliers of ideas? westerners b/c theyv been there and done that or others perhaps aliens or enlightened souls who would act on behalf of God to fix his less than perfect book. How are you going to convince Imam Mahdi to come or people are gona want their money back.

The only meaningful reform to do is to keep the book out of politics and government, so people can finally return to a normal life and practice what they understand of it in the confines of their private lives and make themselves better citizens for their own benefits and the benefit of others. They'll know how to make the best out of it, provided that they do this within a secular civil code.

Other than that do not waste your time, God has been reforming his books since the time of Abraham otherwise Islam was an answer to a question that nobody asked since Jesus had said, ALL SHALL PASS but the GOSPEL, how did Mohammad (s) negotiate that? 

By the way while some souls for the love of 72 bakereh are willing to selfishly sacrifice men women and children, there are those who sacrifice themselves so people like Dariush A have a chance to live and learn. I think God would be more like the 2nd type.



faryarm

DARIUSH A

by faryarm on

Respectfully I like to address your comments 

1. "You see people here are arguing about reforming Islam, you jump in and say, there is no need, Baha'ullah has already done it, right?  So all people need is to convert to Baha'i faith."

If you recognize that religious teachings throughout the ages have been progressive , given according to the needs and conditions of that time, then, yes The Bahai Faith does claim to be the latest , but not the final chapter in the never ending spiritual guidance of our Creator.

2. "You just made the same statement as other religions have made about theirs, that your religion is for now and the next thousand years." 

Religions by their very social laws, laws that very obviously were well suited to a time, prove that their "shelf life" has passed, look at religious teachings about the status of women compared to men or when , an" eye for eye", stoning, or cutting someone's hand was appropriate punishment.

3. Unfortunately your information about Baha'u'llah is incorrect, as in your statement:  "Just as he killed his brother in order to be the only leader of Baha'i faith".

Azal, the younger half brother of Baha'u'llah died a natural death in Cyprus in 1912, and buried as a Muslim holyman.

I could go on pointing to more mistakes, that only show your careless and utter lack of independent knowledge regarding the history and teachings of the Bahai Faith .

However I cant resist this one, when you said:

 "However, that backfired and he decided to move his business to Israel .."

Well, did you not know, Baha'u'llah and his family were exiled from Iran more than 80 years before the foundation of state of Israel. They were sent there by the Qajar and ottoman Kings. in 1852. 

Israel was funded in 1948.

Dariush A.

Kindly come back this time without further reading from the Islamic Republic's Anti Bahai information booklet.

Here is the recent documentary by the BBC, what the Islamic Republic would like its audience in iran to believe is owned by Bahais. :)

here is part 2, 

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2unZeCszn4 


persian westender

I wish everyone could

by persian westender on


I wish everyone could picture what would be the ideal Islam in an imaginative utopia. How they can live the life in an idealist but practical context.  

 


Dariush A

i am not a Baha'i

by Dariush A on

You wrote,

The law, revelations and teachings of Baha'ullah "abrogated" Islamic Law and go beyond mere "reformation." Baha'ullah penned new laws for a new age which are meant to make sense to human society now and for the next thousand years.

That was a smart move. You see people here are arguing about reforming Islam, you jump in and say, there is no need, Baha'ullah has already done it, right?  So all people need is to convert to Baha'i faith.   

You just made the same statement as other religions have made about theirs, that your religion is for now and the next thousand years.

I already wrote and attached some information about Baha'ullah that contradicts your claims based on his actions.

A question I like to know is that why Baha'ullah claimed he was Imam Mahdi?  That is why you are being harassed in Iran. Otherwise, they wouldn't have cared about your beliefs.  Why start such a fire? 

My answer to that would be, Just as he killed his brother in order to be the only leader of Baha'i faith, Baha'ullah wanted to lead as many Muslims as possible in Iran and the only way to convince the Muslims to follow him, would be by claiming that he is Imam Mahdi. However, that backfired and he decided to move his business to Israel and since then the Baha'is have been paying for his mistake.

I am sure bahmani is going to start preaching about his perfect civil liberty religion in the west. Well, there was David Koresh who claimed to be a messenger of God, like Baha'ullah. The civil liberty burned him and his followers (men, women and children) all together.  You see, bahmani, your religion treats its oppositions even worse, domestically and internationally.

 


i am a bahai too

A Quick Baha'i View

by i am a bahai too on

Thank you for the beautiful poem by Majid Naficy.  As a Baha'i who accepts and reveres Muhammed and the Quran, I see the problem this way:

If Islam is truly from God by way of His Prophet, then only God can undertake to amend or "reform" Islam. 

This is what Baha'is believe has already happened. The law, revelations and teachings of Baha'u'llah "abrogated" Islamic Law and go beyond mere "reformation." Baha'u'llah penned new laws for a new age which are meant to make sense to human society now and for the next thousand years.

Sharia Law does not always make sense to us because human society has advanced. Baha'is believe this is the natural way of human development; it is ever-advancing and will always be so. This is why we believe God will continue to send Messengers to deliver advanced knowledge.

As human beings, we could squabble endlessly about correct interpretations or we could choose not to. Naturally it is easier to be at peace with an "interpretation" if it is not imposed, hence the nonexistence of Baha'i clergy.

The first part of Mr. Naficy's poem represents the love of man for God's beauty. The second part represents the shocking realization that we humans are subject absolutely, to God's will. Muhammed imposed harsh laws upon a people who knew nothing about the concept of law and behaved benightedly.   

Baha'u'llah said "He hath but to deliver this clear message. Whosoever desireth, let him turn aside from this counsel and whosoever desireth let him choose the path to his Lord."

Sorry, I may be a bit verbose, but I want to stress the problem of Islam being "reformed" by human beings. Such a thing can only be done by God, the All-Merciful, the Ever-Compassionate.

Such a thing has already occured. Imagine the extreme irony of the fact that this was dine in Iran, by an Iranian. That is something only God could have inspired.  

 

 


Rosie.

Hmmm...

by Rosie. on

well, that one came out of left field.

And for me to respond in any way that would be satisfactory (to me, by my own standards) would take a while. So before I do that, let me just say two things.

The first one is I'm not 'fretting' (and that word sounds condescending btw but I'll assume it wasn't intended to be...).

The second one is have you watched the videos? I mean enough to be knowledgeable about them, not a peek or two.


Reality-Bites

Rosie

by Reality-Bites on

The biggest enemy of Islam, that Muslims need defending against are their fellows Muslims, or rather their radical Islamic betherens. More Muslims have been and continue to be killed at the hands of fellow Muslims than anyone else, in recent history. From Iraq to Afghanistan to Pakistan to Sudan to Somalia to Yemen to Algeria to who knows where else, Muslims kill other Muslims by shootings, suicide bombings, car bombings, road side bombings, beheadings etc, week in, week out.

So if you're so eager to carry on defending Islam "a lot", then you might want to consider turning your attention where Islam and Muslims are really being hurt, instead of fretting over some comedian who makes a few jokes, which in the great scheme of things is probably of no consequence.


Jahanshah Javid

Majid Naficy

by Jahanshah Javid on

He says it beautifully in his poem, "Family Koran":
//iranian.com/main/2010/aug/family-koran


Rosie.

Well...I kept thinking about this guy...

by Rosie. on

i came across somehow surfing a few months ago, whose videos i found deeply disturbing. He is Pat Condell, a British professioanal comedian, who pretty much devotes himself now to trashing Islam on video, but it isn't ordinary comedy. There is real anger and a kind of preaching to it. Deadly serious. And very extreme, very disquieting. 

And yet when I first stumbled upon him, I found it to be a great relief. I just couldn't stop laughing. Belly-aching evil kinds of laughs.I never really saw that part of myself before.

I think that those of us on the 'progressive' side who have 'issues' with 'aspects' of Islam, but who to greater or lesser degree will defend it (me a lot...) can face that part of ourselves in his mirror. An article like Bruce's and some comments here tread a fine line. Pat is actually a 'progressive' too (in most ways he really is...), but he is what it looks like when the line gets crossed. :

The Trouble With islam (seminal one...) //www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhN6CG1zCRc&feature=related

Am I Racist? (this one will really 'hit home' for some people...u'll c...)  //www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1ZLXbKeL2U

Ban the Burqa (I found this to be the funniest, when it's funny, that is...) //www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlkxlzTZc48


Kooshan

The closest fiction that I

by Kooshan on

The closest fiction that I have seen is the fiction book from Ataollah Mohajerani in response to Rushdi's Satanic verses.

 

It is not a masterpiece but a genuine approach to a contemprary issue.


Ari Siletz

Princess

by Ari Siletz on

Yes, the fact remains...

To vent some frustration of my own:

1. Muslims in the English speaking world grumble about Satanic Verses, yet produce no works of fiction of comparable quality to speak their souls. The most prominent of the handful who do create good works in the West are converts to Islam from Chritianity or Judaism.

2. During a non-fiction book reading the author talked about how great it was that Muslim schools in the West produced students that went on to Harvard and such. I asked about the art programs in these schools, and the question was responded to defensively.

3. There is still a debate among devout Muslims as to whether writing fiction is halal

I would be open to propagating and promoting ideology as long as that ideology is coming from constructive and imaginative minds, Islamic or otherwise. Still waiting for a Western Muslim C. S. Lewis or J.R.R. Tolkien.


Princess

Ari

by Princess on

I hear you, and I commend your concern for safeguarding the constitution. However, the fact remains that Muslims - that includes the so-called moderates - have to yet prove to the non-Muslim world that their religion is more than a nasty ideology.

If the freedom to practise your religion means you should be free to worship whome or whatever enetity you want, then nobody is stopping the Muslims, but if it means to mobilise in the name of that god than - I for one - can't blame the non-muslim world for being suspicious.

To me the core question is, should propagating an ideology - any ideology - be tolerated in the name of freedom of religion?

Finally, to those who say that nowadays it is very fashionable to be anti-islam and that those who are expressing their rage against Islam are just jumping on the band wagon, I would say it is the other way round. Most of us Iranians who have witnessed first-hand what can be done in the name of Islam, started questioning this bigoted relgion and its ideologies a long time ago. Now the rest of the world is finally catching up with us.

Having said all that I am also consious and weary of the fact that the far right movement is capitalising on the sentiments of people like me to push forward their own agenda.


pas-e-pardeh

to Ari Siletz

by pas-e-pardeh on

I understand your point.  It is valid.  I agree with it.  That's why I'm not one of those people who shouts stop the Islamic Center in NY.  As far as I know, the more ignorant people try to express themselves, the better in the long run.  I learned this from Sa'di (and khomeini).

The case of the Saudi Prince landing in NY on his high horse is just a curiosity to me.  I just don't understand it and feel an urge to point to the double-standard (yek baam o' 2 havaa) 


Ari Siletz

pas e pardeh

by Ari Siletz on

While Islam is busy reforming (or not) let's not throw away our secular constitution.

Saudi Prince has no business interfering in US civic affairs. They don't live by our laws and we don't live by theirs. It would be tragic if we let something as trivial as tit-for-tat change our nation of secular laws into a Christian Saudi Arabia. I for one, being innocent of witchcraft, will sink and drown.