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Islamic attack on democracy
19-Jun-2008
The Islamic Republic of Iran has reached the highest level of illegitimacy. The Illegitimacy is now an evident characteristic of the regime and henceforth can hardly be denied by an increasing majority of people in and out of Iran. Therefore, the Islamic regime, especially its so-called reformist factions, needs activists in the West to prop up the claim of regime’s legitimacy.
Among the various pro-regime cyber-media in the West, Iranian.com is one of the most read websites. Although, it has a secular character, because of its high popularity and openness to any idea cannot escape from the supporters of the IRI.
IRI’s supporters and lobbyists and on this site are three main groups:
--the first group consists of Islamists, either pro Ahmadinejad or not, they are the absolute devotees of Khomeini, the founder of the IRI, and his ideals for an ideal Muslim community, Ummah. Whatever their differences with each others, their writings on this site unmask their of Islamist attitudes; aggression, superstition, anti-democracy, anti- Persianism and anti-non-Muslim culture are their common attitudes. They attack, slander, humiliate and threaten any writer on the site, who rebuts legitimacy of the IRI.
--the second group does not share all traits of the first group; however support the IRI by showing their own ideological or political conviction. They side with the first group in many aspects.
The second group seems to be the teammates of the first group and fulltime staff hired and orchestrated by the institutions of the regime. They are mostly present on the site to do the job. Their job consists of attacking any other thinker who does not tolerate the regime. They incite feeling of nationalism, fear, populism to support the IRI against the “foreign enemy” while attributing feeling of self- deception, immaturity and weakness to people in order to prolong IRI’s parasitic life.
--the third group is a category of regime’s supporters who are supposed to look like “opposition”. This fake opposition consists of some lobby groups, ex-collaborators of the regime and those who have personal interests. They are supposed to neutralise all ideas and activities of the “subversive” opposition.
Although, members of this group mostly live in the West and are enjoying their western lifestyle, paint a rosy picture of daily life in Iran. They come also to the regime's rescues by ignoring or playing down the plight of people. In fact their unconditional supports for the regime go beyond that of some pro-reformists or factions within the regime in Iran. Even protest within the factions of the ruling system sparks their reactions-- Ebadi’s warning of human rights conditions in Iran can be criticised by IRI’s lobby groups in the West.
It is to mention that a segment of the opposition mistakenly considers the second and third group “leftist”. However, the word “leftist” cannot objectively match IRI’s supporters in any circumstances because the regime is in total contradiction with the philosophy of socialism. At best, these IRI’s supporters or lobbyists are “lumpans”, sold members of an antagonistic class to a reactionary regime like the IRI, as Marxist theory of “deception” describes. In fact, they prove a “false consciousness” which irrationally leads them to support one of the most anti-socialist regimes.
IRI’s supporters, malignly or roughly, convinced or self-sold, propagate a series of pro-IRI views which deem to determine people’s passivity. Either religious or ideological, and so on, they attempt to patch up the fate of Iran and Iranians with the further survival of the IRI. This fatalism is to be imposed to all Iranians and especially on other thinkers.
In this perspective, sensitive issues like the military attack on Iran, economic sanctions on Iran, US invasion of Iraq and precarious sovereignty of Iran (initially violated by the regime itself) and IRI’s nuclear progamme are their major issues “Ottoman’s shirt” to insist on IRI’s survival while totally camouflaging the non-Iranian, barbaric and vile characters of this regime.
The second and third group rarely raised the problem of human rights in Iran. Even so, they parrot baseless claims that human rights, democracy, and social justice are improving under the IRI. IRI’s lobbying activists argue that the main factors for economic problems, increasing gap between social classes and human rights violations are not due to the IRI’s mismanagement, class character, and Islamist brutality, but rather the pressure of the West, immaturity of people and resistance from the victims of the regime. They suggest tolerance, patience and acceptance toward the regime.
IRI’s Achilles’ heel is its record of human rights violations. By arguing that all ills of Iran come from any factor but the regime itself, all IRI’s supporters are at the first place supposed to highlight the external factors and western coercive policies as the normal reasons of IRI’s atrocity.
IRI’s supporters on Iranian.com misuse the democracy on the site to support the undemocratic Islamic regime in Iran. Their message concludes baseless and dehumanising condemnation of all other thinkers on the site. They implicitly come to the following conclusion: since the West is the main enemy of “Iran’ (the IRI), any material on this site against the regime automatically parallels with a ploy of “anti-Iranian” enemy. Therefore, any protest toward IRI’s legitimacy deserves legitimate punishment of “traitor”.
Religious or secular, under original or fake name and avatar, aggressive or demagogue, these three groups attempt to blame, slander and weaken the true opposition to the ruling clerical regime.
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Confused breed! (to Kashsni)
by Anonym7 (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 03:40 PM PDTKashani says: "Looks around and put on your listening ears, your ideology is dead. With the collapse of the Soviet Union and post 9/11 when the world realized the horror of Islamic fundamentalism, Iranians and the wolrd are well aware of whose the "dying breed."
Kashani_jAn, what does Soviet Union and 9/11 have to do with me identifying the line of intolerant right wing politics of Mr. JR et all as dying breed? :)
I "looks" around and I see you very confused!
abc, great comeback.
by Farhad Kashani on Sun Jun 22, 2008 03:18 PM PDTabc, great comeback.
Anonym7, its arguable
by Farhad Kashani on Sun Jun 22, 2008 03:16 PM PDTAnonym7, its arguable whether our views are the prevalent and most popular on this site, but if you believe that our views are not representative of the majority Iranian public opinion, specially, and I reiterate, specially inside of Iran, then it is out of frustration, enviousness and denial, for you you make outrageous and untrue claims that we are a “dying breed”. Looks around and put on your listening ears, your ideology is dead. With the collapse of the Soviet Union and post 9/11 when the world realized the horror of Islamic fundamentalism, Iranians and the wolrd are well aware of whose the "dying breed".
ABC
by Niloufar Parsi on Sun Jun 22, 2008 03:09 PM PDTBut obedience to God encourages subservience to tyrants :)
Peace!
a frustrated minority+1! (to abc)
by Anonym7 (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 02:30 PM PDTabc says: "You believe in gradual reform of the IRI, JR et al don't. Prove him wrong. Build your case based on factual data and examples/precedence."
Mr. abc, you are not in charge of the topic. My original post was a response to Jamshid and related to the topic. You jumped in the middle defending Jamshid et all with your less than polite language and that is fine with me. However you don't know what I was responding to or even the main topic here and that is not fine although funny (see Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez post below, she knows what the topic is). :)
Here is my original post to Jamshid:
Yes I do agree with you that majority of Iranians are against military intervention and at the same time are discontent/seriously discontent with IRI. However majority of Iranians are also vehemently against many illegitimate and criminal portions of opposition (many former Shah's supporters, MEK cult, etc.).
Many of the views, in my opinion the MAJORITY, in this website is the view of the group I just mentioned.
Jamshid, extremists like you, Mr. Kashani, Imani, and JR are not the majority in this site. In fact you are a dying and frustrated minority and JR displays that very well with this article. You guys trashing iranian.com will not resolve that, your bankruptcy has it's root in the real Iran and not the virtual Iran (iranian.com).
Why?
by Natalia Alvarado-Alvarez on Sun Jun 22, 2008 01:47 PM PDTWhy is it that instead of learning from those that lived through the actual revolution of 1979, some feel the need to shut them up? Even worse, tell them that they do not belong on this web site.
I see it as a unique opportunity to get a better understanding of what happened. A person can only learn so much from books.
Yes, there are varying perspectives on what occurred during that time which need to be voiced. How else is anyone to learn to do and be better?
Solh va Doosti
Nadia
what a waste!
by Niloufar Parsi on Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:41 PM PDTThis article is about character assassination and nothing else. Some quest for 'democracy'! well done guys. You are the shining example,
Peace!
anonym7: There is no need
by abc (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:33 PM PDTanonym7: There is no need for pomposity and disdain for the old people; calling Jamshid a relic does not bode well for you.
Why don't you try to refute your detractors' arguments with a counterargument grounded in facts. Why don't you defend your stance on things political instead of opting to groundless smears and juvenile name calling?
In response to your prophetic assertions relating to censorship, I have no idea how Jamishd or JR will act if they were in charge of this site; I don't know them and I don't have a crystall ball. But I know for certain that If it were not for people like jamshid, FK, moi, JR, et al, this site would have been an echo chamber for the reformers and leftists/Islamists of all stripes. Is that what you want?? You want us to go away???
You believe in gradual reform of the IRI, JR et al don't. Prove him wrong. Build your case based on factual data and examples/precedence.
“Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God.” --Thomas Jefferson
What have learned from our revolution?
by Abarmard on Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:56 AM PDTAnything?
Some of you speak as if we did not have a revolution and our voices were not heard after the return of Khomaini. Everyone was aware of what was happening yet powerless to do anything about it. The regime also benefited from a war to occupy our nation while gaining power and momentum. Many oppositions were killed and eventually disappeared from the political scene in Iran...WHY?
Do some of you think that this time things MUST be different? When you fight a regime for a purpose of replacement without any social consideration, you will get a system that would get rid of all its opponents...again. Similar to many of you, who are willing to take your "revenge" from those who are either "Islamists" or "pro-IRI". Similar to the revolution era, when many innocent individuals were killed because the neighbors said they were SAVAK or pro Shah. revenge got us here not accident.
If the people stood up against the unjust killings maybe we would’ve not end up with IR at the end. Many neighbors and people help the terror of the people by the regime themselves. And now you again, thirty years later are saying the same thing. First revenge then think about democracy. Many believe that we need to return the favor and kill all those Mullahs before establishing a “democratic” system. I ask you how? How can this mentality that made us end up with IR help us become democratic?
I don't see any difference in some of your tone to make me think that this time things will be better. To me, we must have not learned enough from our revolution and are still in a dictatorial state, where we want our social class to take control to oppress the other classes, as long as we have suits and ties, act and look western, the regime will be fine!
So as an educated individual who lives in the west and thinks like the secular IR, you must reshuffle your ideology and style of political views before taking a higher ground and accuse others who disagree with you an IR agent or the none sense. At least the other article that I have mentioned in the previous comment had a comical tone, this one is just sad.
To link those who agree with Monarchy or Shah with the dictatorial behavior of that system, or the torture of that system against its opponents is a same mistake as to link those who agree with IR system. What’s the difference except that they are on the other side?
Our goal if is to arrive to democracy should be focused on the democratic behavior not to dictate our ideology in the name of democracy.
Also it’s important for many of Iranians to travel the country and see people and places to clarify to themselves where Iran stands today.
Free Thinker, you heard me right
by Jaleho on Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:46 AM PDTIt is sad that after 30 years of living in a country where people gave lots of blood so you can talk through your ballot, you still have no idea of the power of ballots and you belittle it!
1. In a democracy, anyone who tell another "Just shut up" when it comes to political opinion and discourse, deserves just a "shut up" in return. That goes for the original poster of this thread too.
2. In a democratic system, your opinion has a "worth" exactly equal to any other person with a right to vote, that includes all Iranians you call CALIF-IRANIANS.
3. Despite No.2 above, the voice of many distinguished Iranians outside Iran could be hundred times more effective than yours, but the voice of many distinguished Iranians inside can carry thousand times the effectiveness of that Iranian outside. They can persuade a LARGER NUMBER of Iranians to vote one way or the other.
4. That's why in a democracy, unlike your dislike of "statistics", only the statistics counts!! The statistics shows that over 62% of the Iranian people voted for the current president.
5. In fact, one of the accepted criteria for the health of a democracy is another number (I know you don't like numbers!), called "voter turn out". The American democracy you're dreamily looking at, has been described as "sick" since 1960 because of a small and declining voter turnout. In fact, since 1970 this figure has been in low 50 percentile. In comparison, Iran's voter turn out is among the healthiest in the world.
6. The word "Conspiratorial mind" is used in reference to people who like to argue that something sneakily is presented as another one which is accepted by majority as norm. Your use of the word is meaningless because it is you who is trying to "nullify" the wish of overwhelming majority of Iranians by presenting it as some kind of "conspiracy"!!
7. You also allude to Iranian election not being accepted in the world because of "conspiracies'' you like to believe in. In fact, precisely because many of the world powers were hoping that Iranian election result in a "reformist" rather than a "hardliner" for nuclear issues, Iran's election was one of the most vigilantly watched elections in the world.
It had the largest internal and international monitors who verified it
, but apparently they couldn't satisfy YOU. Then again, YOU don't count, the overall statistic of those who accepted it as legitimate, DO count.8. The candidate selection process is criticized and legitimate criticism exists in Iran's election as well as American which again you seem to idolize. Iran had far larger and varied candidate list that US ever had. In Iran, some religious rule can vet a candidate, in the US it is the corporation, and special interest lobbies which allows you to even hear about the TWO CANDIDATE OF THEIR CHOICE. Often time presidential candidates well ahead of any names being thrown as viable, pay homage to Herzilya conference in Israel to get OK for running in the first place. It is only after that which regular lectures at AIPAC starts! Naturally, many others run just like in Iran any soopoor can run too. Question is who vetted the candidate to make their names even come up among THOUSANDS, and how viable they can be.
9. Similarly, many shout about the "Council of Guardians" 6 of its members are appointed and 6 elected, but forget that in the US the supreme court has 9 members, ALL appointed and for life.
The supreme leader, is also not as supreme as they make it sound in the west, after all, he's elected by Assembly of Experts, all of whose 86 members are elected by people.
10. Finally, none of the above means there's no serious defects in our political systems, but PEOPLE of the country fight to correct them. In case you forgot, that's how Iranians overthrew Shah's regime despite tens of thousands of foreign military personnel protecting his dictatorial regime. They balanced how wrong things were vs. how much they're willing to sacrifice to change it.
Iranian people have shown that they never quit checking the balance and they fight for what is in their COLLECTIVE interest.
Jamshid
by Jahanshah Rashidian on Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:49 AM PDTJamshid:Mr. Javid's comment on my piece, showed his political views in general rather than his reaction to my piece. Due to his bitter experience in his teens, Mr. Javid seems to distance himself from an active participation in the process of IRI’s removal.
This nonchalant trait toward a criminal regime, to which he approaches the second and third groups, is not only due to the tabloid character of his site, but also to his emotional ties to some ex-brothers and IRI’s ex-seniors—highlighting Ganji, admiring a late IRI’s senior who was his chief editor in the ISNA, …
Mr. Javid showed in many writings his opposition to the IRI, and his regret to his Islamist past, but the old days, his non-sympathy for the subversive opposition remain his obsessive source of his double standard to the point to name call oppressor and victim’s defender both “extremist”.
I hope he comes to the point that the IRI and its supporters have reached the same level as that of Nazi, KKK, Al.Qaida or any criminal entity.
Wow!!!
by Shadooneh (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:38 AM PDTDoostan, I'm still trying to figure out what the author is trying to say. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think he's saying that some people with opposing views, whom he calls "activists", are participating in open and public forums to "prop-up" this and that. Is THIS what's bothering the author? I'm eagerly looking forward to reading something a bit smarter.
you guys have nice clothes! (to abc et all)
by Anonym7 (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:26 AM PDTabc says, "JR and Jamishd et al are just tired of being a given bull crap and told by the leftist/islamists that it's candy. That's all."
Mr. abc I am very well aware of that. If the right wing extremists such as Jamshid et all were in charge of this site there would be no tolerance for freedom. This site would not be what it is, it would be a site where Mr. JR et all would be admiring each other constantly, ..., nothing more!
As I stated below the extremist intolerant of JR type is a frustrated dying bread, your above paragraph of "bull crap" yet confirms that again.
Anyhow Mr. abc, what now? Trashing iranian.com is not going to fix your issues, admiring each other might give you guys some temporary satisfaction though. You guys are in disparate need of telling each other what beautiful invisible clothes you all have! (//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes)
JR, you have the greatest invisible clothes!!!
Salr
by Jahanshah Rashidian on Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:20 AM PDTSalar: once again you nailed it: “To arrive at a democracy you need to first remove those repressing it and blocking its existence and those supporting this behavior.”
I am sure apart from their routoine accusations; different supporters of obscurity and crime have no enlightening and moral points to justify IRI’s legitimacy and consequently its survival. IRI’s evasive polemics consist of labeling their opponents by accusing them to pro-western / Israeli / MOK / Shahi and other character assassination-tactics. In reality many Iranian oppressed and their defenders do not care about the above names and other evasive name callings.
Agree, “Mullahs have very smart people working for them and when it comes to doing mischief and deception they get very creative and have mastery of it, and petro dollar at $140 a barrel certainly gives them lots of budget to spend to attract those traitors they need”. There are many articles, witnesses and leaped information that Mullahs spend a high budget to nutarise Iranian opposition alike.
For the regime and its lobby stooges, the degree of political or ideological engagement of the organised opposition or individual opposition is not actually determinant.
who's Mr. Watson?
by sdf (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 09:09 AM PDTwho's Mr. Watson?
anonym7: Why resort to name
by abc (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 08:47 AM PDTanonym7: Why resort to name calling and labeling people???
Do you think reformers like you represent the majority of Iranians???
The reformers are a hollow , empty head full of cliches that they parrot endlessly . Incapable of any true debate because the world they live in is simply black and white. Reformers need to understand that "Islamic Revolutionary" ideology has no place in the future of Iran or the world. Islamic Revolutionary ideology is synonymous with Islamist terrorism or jihadism.
Would we give the Nazi, Al-Quada or KKK a platform on this site???
I'm just giving you a dose of your own medicine.
JR and Jamishd et al are just tired of being a given bull crap and told by the leftist/islamists that it's candy. That's all.
a frustrated minority (to Jamshid, JR, ...)
by Anonym7 (not verified) on Sun Jun 22, 2008 07:02 AM PDTJamshid says: "However, the majority of Iranians, inside and abroad, are against military intervention and at the same time are vehemently against the IRI regime too...."
Yes I do agree with you that majority of Iranians are against military intervention and at the same time are discontent/seriously discontent with IRI. However majority of Iranians are also vehemently against many illegitimate and criminal portions of opposition (many former Shah's supporters, MEK cult, etc.).
Many of the views, in my opinion the MAJORITY, in this website is the view of the group I just mentioned.
Jamshid, extremists like you, Mr. Kashani, Imani, and JR are not the majority in this site. In fact you are a dying and frustrated minority and JR displays that very well with this article. You guys trashing iranian.com will not resolve that, your bankruptcy has it's root in the real Iran and not the virtual Iran (iranian.com).
Farhad, everybody twists,
by Rosie T. on Sun Jun 22, 2008 06:36 AM PDTit is the very nature of our perception of human experience. But the question here really, at least as I perceive it, is can we all somehow manage to wring the towel together?
Rosie
Mr. Rashidian, Bijan, Fred,
by Farhad Kashani on Sun Jun 22, 2008 05:11 AM PDTMr. Rashidian, Bijan, Fred, Zion and others..great responses. These guys are twisting things, like this guy Mammad, claims that I said I don't belive Human Rights are Universal. When they have nothing logical to respond back, they start making up things as they go.
Mr. Watson
by Fred on Sun Jun 22, 2008 04:17 AM PDTIn facing the stark systematic brutality of this Islamist republic, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, some still harbor the reformability option. That is the genesis for all this “Islamic democracy” and calls for tolerating the point of view of the ruling Islamists and refraining from becoming “an extremist” in opposing it. It is as though a victim had stood in the middle of walled in Warsaw ghetto and admonished “extremism” in opposing the tormentors and lectured other victims on affording equal respect and tolerance for the point of view of the ruling Nazi regime as much as the one afforded the victims themselves. The mere dismissal of openly supportive of Islamist regime as insignificant in numbers or attributing it to those who fear military attack and therefore by whitewashing the Islamist crimes try to mitigate the excuses for an attack is a catch twenty two. This regime is rotten to the core and the only option is to excise it, most preferably by Iranians, before others get busy doing it their destructive way.
Hi, guys, I'm in
by Rosie T. on Sun Jun 22, 2008 01:03 AM PDTI had no access for a long time, then limited, but I'm in. Pls. keep checking, I'm gonna be responding to some of you directly or indirectly by tomorrow.
R.
Jamshid and Zion
by AT&T to the rescue (not verified) on Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:56 PM PDTmorgheh yeh paa dareh ya seda nemiyad?
Alo?
did you guys even comprehend what was said? or is this just your flavor of democracy? Label them and move on to make more accusations. First the islamists, then the ones who want to empower the Iranians inside while stopping the foreign militaries, who's next? will you pull an IRI and get rid of all the rest when you get to power?
Being an extremist is just that, no matter which way you swing. Your disrespect for other people's words and opinions is not annoying anymore, it's plain ridiculous!
the lines of communication seem to be broken here, or is it just people being too stubborn to admit to being extremists themselves?
Re: Jahanshah Javid
by jamshid on Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:40 PM PDTJ. Javid, you wrote, "if you are against any foreign intervention in Iran, if you want Iranians and only Iranians to solve their own problems, if you believe in non-violent opposition and civil disobedience... then anti-IRI extremists accuse you of being an IRI supporter"
This is exactly what Mammad wrote in his post too. My response is the same. If one is against foreign intervention BUT in favor of the IRI, then he/she is indeed a supporter of an illegitimate and criminal regime which is brutalizing and depriving its own citizens in every conceivable way.
There is nothing wrong with accusing these individuals of being pro-regime since it is a choice they have made out of their own free will.
Conversely, if one is against the IRI, but in favor of military intervention, then he/she is a supporter of an illegitimate neocon policy. There is nothing wrong with accusing such individuals of being pro-neocons, as they too have made a choice based on their free will.
However, the majority of Iranians, inside and abroad, are against military intervention and at the same time are vehemently against the IRI regime too. Their position is clear, and those of them who are in Iran, continue to bravely fight the IRI in whatever small or large way they can. They do so despite the possibility of being flagged by the IRI as "foreign agent soldouts" and subsequently being taken away to the IRI's dungeons.
You are obviously being considerate towards those who are against military intervention and who are labeled as pro-IRI. As long as their intentions are noble, then that is a legitimate concern.
However, since they are under no threats, and more importantly since we have limited resource, I suggest focusing more on those who desperately need our attention; those who are living in Iran and are bravely opposing the IRI, and are being labeled by IRI and its supporters as pro-foreign soldouts on a daily basis. These people, whom we call "the people of Iran", are under a very real and genuine threat if living in Iran. They need every bit of support from everywhere. In fact they should be the target of our attention and concerns, not the other group.
You wrote, "if you want Iranians and only Iranians to solve their own problems... then anti-IRI extremists accuse you of being an IRI supporter"
There is a large difference between "wanting Iranians to solve Iran's problems" and "wanting the IRI files and ranks to solve Iran's problems."
These two are not compatible and are disjoint. The IRI does not represent the people of Iran. The IRI is doing everything in its power to stop the people of Iran from changing our country for the better. And when some from among the people are brave enough to attempt to change things anyway, they end up being harassed (if they are lucky), or worst being imprisoned or executed.
This begs the question of how could one possibly expect the people of Iran to change things, while they are standing alone and abandoned by the world, and while being brutalized by a regime that holds no limits in persecuting its own citizens? I am open to your suggestions.
Therefore, we are left with the IRI files and ranks, the reformists, as the possible conduit of change in Iran. And this is the trap where the IRI is attempting to herd the majority of Iranians into. They want the very same entity that is brutalizing the defenseless people of Iran, to be considered their "savior" too.
This leaves them with total control and a guaranteed survival.
Under these circumstances, although change must come from within, but the people of Iran who live "within" have every right to demand foreign countries to abandon the IRI in favor of the people of Iran. This is not due to their being soldouts, as the IRI advertises. In fact it is far from it.
You wrote, "...then anti-IRI extremists accuse you... "
J. Javid, considering the brutality and barbarity of the IRI regime, how could one become an anti-IRI "extremist"? Or for example, an anti-Taliban extremist, or anti-Nazi extremist? Please do not breath anti-IRI individuals in the same sentence than anti-Iran individuals or "who cares about Iran" individuals.
What do you call a desperate Kurd that shoots and kills a Pasdar after his brother was tortured and then executed by Pasdarans, and his sister raped while under interrogation? Do you call him an anti-IRI extremist?
Nobody is accusing those who are against military intervention and foreign intervention for change in Iran, so long as they are as strongly against the brutalities and the crimes being committed by the IRI regime. This is only a view that represents the majority of Iranians who happened to be against foreign intervention but long for their freedom from the IRI too.
However, when "foreign intervention" is used as a guise to prolong the life of the IRI and to muzzle any voice against the regime, then that same majority has every right to accuse and criticize these individuals as regime collaborators.
You wrote, "Tolerance only has meaning when you show it towards your opponents."
I disagree with you. Tolerance towards an opponent that supports "absolute intolerance" and brutality, imprisonment, executions, stoning and other barbaric savageries, and that crushes all of his opponents, is at best a meaningless oxymoron.
Those in charge of IRI trapped us once 30 years ago. Today, let's know our priorities and avoid falling into their completely renovated traps once again.
abc
by Zion on Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:11 PM PDTWell, she claims she is an atheist and only wants to hear the views of the of Islamic revolutionaries. It appears that all these revolutionaries ever wanted was defending Islamic democracy.
What can I say. ;-)
Salar, baba damet garm,
by Bijan A M on Sat Jun 21, 2008 08:25 PM PDTThere is no arguing the facts.....
Zion: Good catch. If there
by abc (not verified) on Sat Jun 21, 2008 06:02 PM PDTZion: Good catch. If there ever was a Freudian slip???lol
the perspective of Islamic revolutionaries. A defence of Islamic democracy. The very voice of those targeted for expulsion.
Hello, Everybody I haven't forgotten the people who wrote
by Rosie T. on Sat Jun 21, 2008 05:43 PM PDTdirectly to me but there is a computer glitch and it's very difficult for me to access this article. I told jj and he's fixing it. Please bear with me and him. This article is very important because like certain others it touches a central nerve and so it gets people of all political and religious persuasions to face each other openly and honestly. And so little wars have to be fought here, because that is the only way to arrive at a larger peace. I really believe that it is possible here, and thanks to jj's new moderation system,. we are now able to fight these small wars civilly in the name of peace.
This is what TRUE Musliims call the Greater Jihad. It is the sacred battle of one's Self over one's self in order to achieve peace, truth and reconcilation first within oneself, and then the next step, in the world. I'll be back to answer the people who wrote to me directly as soon as I can. Thank you all for welcoming me to this site.
Rosie
Let them scream!
by anti-vatanforoush (not verified) on Sat Jun 21, 2008 04:22 PM PDTIt is obvious that many Iranians do not buy anymore the lies and hatred of a very few vatanforoushs. The more these liers and anti-Iran propagandists write the more their lies and distortions of Iran become clear to the public. This is why true iranians (who do not like the IRI nor the foresworn enemies of Iran) respond to them negatively (as you can see in this website), and this is what MAKES THEM MAD AND FRUSTRATED!
Their madness and frustration makes them paranoids and force them to accuse this website of being taken over by... A claim which make everyone laugh. This website is one of the most anti-IRI websites in the whole internet!
I think the more these vatanforoushs write the more they are exposed to the Iranians living abroad. They write somehow as all the world's evils is in present day Iran! They do not see the crimes committed by their masters all over the world on a daily basis! Have you ever seen these paranoids criticize the crimes committed in Iraq or Afghanistan by their bosses?
Let them write more and expose themselves more!
The more we see stupid articles published by these paranoids the more we become aware of their evil intentions and distortions.
A Precursor to Democracy
by Salar (not verified) on Sat Jun 21, 2008 03:52 PM PDTTo arrive at a democracy you need to first remove those repressing it and blocking its existence and those supporting this behavior. Without this happening first, you won’t have any democracy to speak of or protect. One thing democracy is not is to create a lawlessness and anything goes attitude and certainly is not to create and environment and platform for anti-democratic elements to operate freely and spread their poison. Anti-democratic elements always advocate for a democracy like that outside of the environment of their absolute control (for instance, IRI supporters and lobbyists ignoring the conditions under their own beloved regime and criticizing and exaggerating anything and everything that goes wrong outside). Until the day we recognize this fact and work towards a remedy for limiting these elements and their impact in out environment we will not arrive at that hypothetical democracy that everyone seems to drink with their tea these days. Unfortunately our demonstration and exercise of democracy is as deficient as the lack of it.
Sazman etelaat regime has many divisions in high tech and media arena. One being to allocate and support resources that roam around the net and not only create an environment of confusion and distortion on media outside of Iran including Internet but to scout for possible disruptive ideas or opposition that can potentially cause a threat for IRI. Spotting these possible threats early on and taking various actions against them is instrumental to IRI longevity and existence. Anybody who have ever worked in iran and have come in contact with these people know how serious these matters are to them. The common mistake by Iranians living in diaspora for many years is to think of them as bunch of stupid mullahs in turbans or mongoloids like ahmadi nejads behind the computer clicking away but they have very smart people working for them and when it comes to doing mischief and deception they get very creative and have mastery of it, and petro dollar at $140 a barrel certainly gives them lots of budget to spend to attract those traitors they need.
so what
by Anonym7 (not verified) on Sat Jun 21, 2008 03:33 PM PDTJR, many many of us disagree with you not because you are a secular (and we don't want a secular Iran),
not because you are a "thinker" (and we don't think!). We disagree with you because we find you an extremist. Anyhow, for a moment let's assume that your conspiracy theories are right! What should be done? Labeling? I personally don't consider your labels more than cheap shots.
Are you just expressing your frustration? .... as an extremist you inflict that on yourself more than any of us.