:) They are both nice in their own ways

One group promotes the idea of a Chador as a means of controlling hyperactive male hormones, not realizing the x-ray vision capabilitis (not to mention fanatasies) of the male species when it comes to the body of a woman.

Another group, dresses in clothes revealing parts of herself very attractive to the male species and then complains of the looks she gets. Hameye aghayoon hizand bla bla.

There is then the third group with their bland choice of clothing (you know, the MKO types) that are caught in the middle. No mystery-behind-the-veil type of attaction and nothing to show upfront. :)

Women should choose?

Are you advocating going back to the Shah's time? Because that's who it was back then.

salavaat.

Is not personly chose

when is written in YOUR BOOK and someone whit name as mohammad tell those women what to do,is not a personly CHOSE! If their islam whould say bow fore your men,all those women whould do it!!! This is not their chose,is their and your islam! mohammad did not say to their men att close your eyes! Those women should drees how they want,to istead he made hard fore arabs women,that was much easier! I think turkish goverment should explain to them why they doing,so all those women can undrestand their goverment's action! there is no chose! U morons,dont tell your women what they should do and how they should behave! FIX yourself,first! Then TALK AND REACT!

I do agree in a civil

I do agree in a civil society, people should have the right to chose. But keep in mind, religious indoctrination (a from of abuse) start very early on in childhood. The charlatans have a huge advantage over the liberals.

Respect people's freedom of choice! One size doesn't fit all!

Why are you imposing your own values on others? Azarin says she doesn't understand the stupidity of wearing hejab! Stupidity? Since when someone's personal choice has become stupid! How about if someone calls those who don't wear hejab stupid? Of course, you are going to call them stupid since you don't want to understand that people have different values and styles. Modern doesn't necessary make you smart!

My main problem is when a government or people deicde for others! We would never grow if we don't make decisions for ourselves! Personal choice is the way!

What's so great about the stupid piece of cloth anyway?

Hejab is just idiotic, you have a bad hair day wear a hat and look cool. You don't have to cover your hair to be modest. Wear clothes modestly and don't look like a hooker if you like.

Moosalman=zendeh moordeh-zoombi

aziz durood you understood well.

WHAT CHOICE?!!!

Who on earth says that wearing the hejab is a choice?!!! Yeah all women who wear it say it has been their "choice"...I will ONLY believe those women who have "chosen" to wear hijab IF and 'ONLY IF' they were NOT wearing it AFTER puberty and AFTER the age of a LEGAL adult which BTW is 18 NOT 9... when you are a kid and KNOW NOTHING of the world and your MOM or DAD ( or any other adult ) who ARE the world to you at that age ask you to wear it ( with or without reason ) as soon as you blow the nine candles on your mickey mouse birthday cake; where is the choice?!!!

Islam is the most manipulative / destructive ideology on earth by far! First it asks parents to teach their daughters at a very early age the benefits of the hijab ( breaking down resistance ) then to actually wear it by the ripe age of 9, HELLO! by the time you hit 18 when your mind is finally working like an adult you would feel naked without it!!! Try wearing a hat every single day, summer and winter, rain or shine; everytime you go out for 10 long years and I will promise you on the eleventh year that hat will be a part of you and your head!

Woman should choose, still...

Women should be able to choose, but I personally can't stand the darkness and stupidity of women with headscarf...:-) Azarin

first one

first one (Iran) is worse. you are pushing some one into medival dark ages. second one (Turkey) you are trying to push come one in to modernity.
Rest assure second one will not be approved by liberals and Hollywood idiots, under a banner of personal freedom, choise you name it....

Aziz, are you sure that's really the message?

There is a saying in Iran that says, wearing glasses don't make you literate, and wearing a tie don't make you civilized (einak savaad nayavarad and keraavaat tamadon). The issue is not what Kamal Pasha, the famous Turk tyrant, forced the Turks to do. Lucky for the Turks one look at ordinary Turkish women in towns and villages reveals the fact that he was not very successful in changing the appearances of many female Turks against their will and traditions other than a thin layer of the urban elite women. The point is FORCING women to wear, or not to wear, something is violating their civil rights. Why is it so hard for you to understand that no one, I repeat no one, should be able to force women or men to wear certain types of clothes against their will. If you think wearing a roosari, or lachak, is going back to the "dark ages", I'm afraid you are the one still lurking there not the women who choose to cover their heads because they choose to do so.

women's hejab( or lack of) is a symbol of male dominated society

Hejab in essence is a good thing for society. It should be for both man and woman. It is a deterring factor for use of sex as a tool which is a matter of Demand & Supply!

This tol is used in concervative soceties by men to victimize and dominate women, where it is used in liberal societies by men to victimize and franchise women. Both are extreme swing of the same pendelum.

A strong woman will accept neither. I think that is only possible in a society that the role of man and women is considered in a complementary fashion rather than opposing or equal basis.

In the realm of oppression, both victim and victimizer are at fault!

Turks&Jerks

Iran: You are 2nd class citizen and a sex toy. Do as you are told. Obey!
Turkey: Kamal pasha has set you free. Blood was shed to get you this far. Use your brains sister. Can not go back to dark ages. If Europeans rejected you, stand up, do not hide behind that wretched lachak.

Majid, mordam as khandeh.

Majid, mordam as khandeh.  You're always so funny.  I ditto Irandokht.  She said it best.  It's absolutely up to a woman's right to determine how she wants to dress.  For religious women they should also choose the level of their piety Mormons like their Jesus jammies.  Some Jewish women wear wigs.  The difference is that in Utah or Tel Aviv you don't have men imprisoning you over your CHOICE.   I'll have to say though, when I'm too lazy to dye my grey roots the hejab aint looking half bad.

Women should decide for themselves

I completely agree with Irandokht!

حاجی

جان مولا.....میتونی‌ کامنت خودت رو یه ضرب و یه نفس بخونی‌ ؟

برادر جان ....وسط هاش گاه گاهی یه نقطه بذار، نفسی تازه کن و دوباره یا علی‌ مدد.

آدم یاد  "علی‌ میگه ززز...........................ووو"  می‌ افته.

Forcing it is not good either way

But DOWN WITH HEJAB anyway. And is anybody aware that Saudi King Abdullah was pushing for global law punishment for balsphemy in the United Nations?
//www.csmonitor.com/2008/1113/p09s02-coop.htm...

هر دو نمادی از ظلم و خفقان

نه این خوبه نه اشون لعنت به هر دوتاشون

BOTH

If a woman wishes to wear one, so be it.

If she chooses not to, so be it.

Either way, it's no one's business.

when I was in Iran and what I know ?

a friend was working in Iran for under cover  Islamic police was came in my office and he was so sad , I ask him what is going on here he told me I take a women over to jail now she was kidnapped a small girl in rail way station, what they do for kid they sale kid's for sex or to family like to have kids, or they cut the hand or leg and bring kids to make money on corner of the street, problems with you are  you guys never live looks to me in Iran and you are do not understand Iranian society in Tehran how can be dangerous , how many taxi drive was killed or driver  in past, how many kids murdered,,,where all this drug came from you are must be happy if police stay in power and make street safe for your family.

restricting women is wrong

restricting women to wear or not to wear hejab is wrong no matter who does it and why.
women are human beings (news flash!!!) and we have the mental capacity to make the decision about our own bodies, whether it's about clothes, or pregnancy, or even elective surgery!

nobody's business! not men's, not governments', not mullah's and not the churches'

it's just pathetic how we still have to struggle and try to prove that we're human too.

IRANdokht

Why is it that Muslem women can be abused by...

the fundamentalists of both religious and secular camps? What makes the Muslem women such easy targets? Can anyone please come up with and explanation? I wish the freedom loving folks would object to the inustice and pressures heaped on the Turkish women who prefer to wear a simple roosary, which are sold all parts of the world and worn by Christian and Jewish women too, as a clear violation of their rights. Somehow the West is kind of numb and quiet about that.

No one's business

Who's deciding what girls or women should or should not wear the hejab? Beh kassi cheh? They should be free to choose for themselves.

In Turkey

One is free to wear the hijab. The restriction only applies to certain state run institutions, whereas in Iran, the hijab code is enforced in every public and (sometimes private) place.

How about in the middle? :)

I think the police should force women to have a half hejaab - full hejab and no hejab both should be punished :)

For who?

For Iran the first is bad, for Turkey the second is bad.

Advertising religion

Definitely any religious symbolism is a wrong thing. It is my belief that woman are forced to wear scarf and they have no other option.

Both Wrong obviously

To make the debate more interesting, is asking the question, should government define what we can wear or not wear, and as so, what is the limit? Why is someone not allowed to walk, say, completly naked down the street? Why is that so wrong?.. I mean.. whats wrong with walking naked down the street.. Im sick and tired of old women screaming at me and small kids grabbing, patting and pulling my breasthair and backhair calling me "big hairy bear.. big hairy bear.."

We live in a sick, racist and violent society...

Turkish jokes

It's funny how the Fars still tell jokes about the Turks. The president, the mulahs, the custom, the religion and every thing in Iran is a joke.

The question

I did not say I necessarily approve of restricting Hijab. It depends on the situation. Sometimes for instance a liberal open system has to defend itself from an influx of ideological zeal and its specific symbols. You can argue as you did against a ban on Nazi-arm bands after WWII in Germany too. I would argue in favor of such a ban in that particular case. It depends.

You can also look at it as a sort of affirmative action for women trapped in strict traditional social surroundings. Personally I'm not a big fan of affirmative action that much. For blacks or for women, but that is another aspect of such a process.

The question however was not which one I approve, but which one is worse, and to me it is clear that imposing hijab by force is much worse than restricting it.
(Now, why should I be upset?)