aNostalgist Fish

Taa nabaashad cheezakee

Taa nabaashad cheezakee mardom nagooyand cheezha! There is politics and economics here.
It was explained to me that in the North of Iran, many women worked very closely to the men in the agricultural fields. The proximity of the sexes as well as the natural independence that some women had while working (while in other areas women were home bound) was the cause of this so called bee gheyrati. So even though it isn't true that some people in Iran will have less gheyrat than others, there are economic and political reasons behind these jokes (some are funny).
The Azaris are considered dumb because as they moved to the cities, their Farsi was less than perfect and they had a very pronounced accent. Also, they did well in business in Tehran and some of the residents were angry about this. So the donkey jokes followed (some are funny).
Iran has many cultures and they are all wonderful.
This is also true of Polish jokes in the US or NF jokes in Canada. NF was the last province to join the confederation and cause a lot of resentment among other Canadians and the Poles...that one I don't know.

do not insult Irani with your stupid American

http://hajiagha.tripod.com
چون مطالب من مانند کاریکاتور های من جدی است و در مورد زندگی نکبت بار غرب همیشه ضد طرفدارانی هم دارد امروز مطلب در مورد خانواده ایرانی ها و چرا اسلام  در ایران توانسته نقش مثبتی داشته باشد. روی صفحه ایرانیان امروز یک اگهی خنده دار دیدم می پرسد تا درخت خانوادگی و ریشه ای پدری و مادری خود را پیدا کنیم ان هم در غرب که میزان طلاق و زنا و داشتن سکس بدون مسئولیت بیشتر میشود این فرزندان امروزی کدام شان می تواند ریشه واقعی خود را پیدا کند تا به ان افتخار کند وقتی الکساندر برای ویرانی ایران لشگر کشی می کند و بوش برای ویران کردن عراقی ها و اسلام حتی ایران  با جنگ و تبلیغات منفی و نشان نقاط ظعف اسلام و پنهان کردن نقاط منفی خودشان  و وقتی پاپ  رهبر می گوید اکنون مسلمان ها بیشترین مردم و بالا ترین مذهب دنیا را دارند..وقتی یک خارجی اعتراف می کند فرزندان مها جران به امریکا و کانادا بهتر با تحصیل تر و موفق تر  هستند و خانوادهای انها محکم تر وبا شخصیت تر و زحمت کش تر و....نشان دهنده فر هنگ اسلام است نه فرهنگ غربی  چون بیش  از هزار سال اسلام در جامعه  ما نفوذ مثبتی داشته و انقلاب ٥٧ رخ داد و خمینی بت شکن امد  انقلاب برای از بردن  نقاط منفی و زشت و فساد و فقر و .....بود  و اگر فرهنگ غرب مثبت بود که ما دیوانه نبودیم انقلاب کنیم......اگرخانواده  ایرانی ها موفق تر ازخانواده امریکائی ها و کانادائی ها هستند فرزندان مادب و در خوان.. .نشان دهنده نفوذ فرهنگ اسلامی و سلامت خانوادها و سلامت فرزندان انها و برتری اسلام است.....برتری در داشتن بمب اتمی نیست  و لخت شدن در خیابان ها و کشیدن ازاد مواد مخدر حمل اسلحه و.... و برای چه امریکا با چین هم مخالف است و ویرانی ایران و چین را می خواهد و ویرانی با نفوذ با  فرهنگ زشت غربی یا با جنگ می خواهد  ما را هم شکننه و بی هویت  کنند....فرزند ایرانی مهاجر از ایران چرا باید سالم تر و با هوش تراز ....باشد واگر  فرزندان امروزی ما در گیر مواد مخدر  و سیگاری و .... هم جنس بازی هستند ایا به خاطر اسلام است .

True

But the jokes about other regions are about their zerangi or their sense of humor or their accent or...........which is partly true and part funny and they don't offend anyone , but, Gilaks and "bi gheirati" ?or Azaris and ......? those are just insults! they're not jokes.

Majid

I don't believe that would be the real reason. We have also jokes about the "khousestani" or the "lor" of Iran.

I rather take the ideas of some friends here like, Ben, Mr. Jahan-Parvar or leva... 

Rashties are neither Arabs nor Turks!!!!!!!!!!!!

The north of Iran is the last part of Iran that was coerced into Islam(200 years after the Arab invasion). They say the jokes for the people of Rasht and call them begearat because the Rashties respect the women's right and equality between the two genders. That is somehow hard to understand for the rest of other Iranians who are more infected by Arabic and Turkish culture and still think women have no rights.

How about this?

When in service I read this book from "Nader Ebraahimi" which was titled "Ghazal daastaan-e  saal haa-ye bad".

In one story he was saying that all this B.S. is a mental preperation of seperating the two regions in the north, being Gilan and Aazarbaijan, his theory was that if you seperate the regions mentally then it's much easier to seperate them geographically. So that's how the "Jokes" started in hope of Gilaks and Aazaris find themselves apart from the rest of the nation and then ..........!

It sorta kinda makes sense since you never hear a joke about Baloochis or Khoraasaanis! what do you think?

Family Honor & Patriarchal Society!

Family honor ("Gheyrat") means that the female members in a family are the property of the males in that family. They are like kids and livestock, short on intelligence, and therefore incapable of making wise judgements and decisions about their own lives and their future. They need their male protectors to make decisions on their behalf and for "their own good".

This all boils down to the question of economics and the patriarchal society where the males are the "breadwinners" and women do the non-paying labor known as the housework and raising the kids. The women in this kind of mode of economic production are subservient of the males.

Since the women's labor in this kind of economic relationship is not generating the actual wealth, they do not have much saying socially and they have to depend on the kindness of their male protectors.

When women get involved in the labor force and generate wealth, economically they are not subservient anymore. As a result the culture changes and the men are forced to accept new outlooks and accept new values.

The superstructure (views, culture, traditions, etc.) is a reflection of the base (economics) in a society.

The women who have active involvement in generating wealth in certain areas of the country (in Iran's northern provinces such as Gilan where the women actively work in places like rice fields, and among certain migrating tribes such as the Bakhtiyaris) enjoy certain respect and certain level of equality in their social settings.

When women are economically independent of men, and the men do not have much power to make decisions on their behalf and treat them like livestock, the patriarchal culture brandishes the women as "immoral" and their men as having no family honor. 

Actually in history Gilan

Actually in history Gilan and Mazandaran (Deylaman and Tabarestan) were among the rare places which stand against Arab invaders for decades...
However Northern Iranians are more open minded people and I think all these jokes come from the religious subconscious of people.

Take it easy!

Take it easy everyone. A

Take it easy everyone. A joke is a joke, is a joke. They say the same jokes for the people of Poland. Has anyone read SASHA's comments carefully? What is he saying? Full of paradox and discrimination. He is the educated one. I still think Rashti jokes are the best.

There is a history behind this issue.

Dear Sashas,

 Northern Iran was tarditionally isolated from the rest of the country. The first road crossing the Alborz mountains in Guilan area and available for the whole year was built during Naser-el Din Shah's period (probably in 1850s, I may be mistaken here). Also, culturally while Guilan was one of the first regions to convert to (Zeidi) Shi'ism in the 10th century CE, it was and still is not as religious as the rest of the country.

That led to a peculiar development. Guilak women did not wear "roo bandeh", a very common mode of dressing in almost all other areas in the country. Also, they worked in silk production and rice cultivation alongside men. This was a very unusual practice for the peiod and for cultural norms of the people in the other parts of the country.

Notice that even in other rural areas of the country, the two genders did not mix while working on the field. I actually saw this practice in late 1980s in East Azarbaijan region. Women and men performed their tasks seperately.

 Also, bear in mind that there was a heated debate in early 1900s that whether women who wear "roo bandeh" instead of "neghab" are lax in social norms. Several preachers in Tehran, Isfahan, and Tabriz delivered fiery sermons against wearing white colored Rubandehs.

Now, in a country wih such strict segregation of genders, the first layperson travellers who went to Guilan in mid 19 century to early 20th century suddenly found women who do not cover their faces and mix with men, with open faces, in Bazaars and in work places (fields and factories). Their first assumption was immediately that these women are "bi-effat" and they have sexual relationships with all and sundry. Since many such women were also married, then the non-Guilak would simply conclude that Guilak men don't care about their honor (sexual behavior of their "womenfolk"). From this point on, the first jokes about "Rashtis" appear and then they took a life of their own.

Academically, you can refer to several trevelogoues of western travellers who visited Caspian regions during this period.

جک های رشتی

Thats what i wrote in my blog many times ago about the same topic:
درسته که جکهای ایرانی این سالها پر از مطالب دوست نداشتنی شده و یه خورده دیگه از حالت جک در اومده اما یه وقتهایی یه چیزهایی از خصلتهای واقعی مردم رو میشه توش پیدا کرد. خصلتی که تو جک جنبه اغراق پیدا میکنه اما به عقیده من بیان یه واقعیت از نوع دیگه هست.
من متاسفانه هیچ تخقیق علمی در مورد مردم شناسی مناطق مختلف کشورم ندارم. نقصی هست که باید یه روز جبرانش بکنم. اما الان که میتونم یه چیزهایی رو که سالها شنیدم و بعضا دیدم با بعضی از دستاوردهای جامعه شناسی تطبیق بدم و از یه منظر بالاتر بهشون نگاه کنم.
این جک "یه رشتی بود..." همیشه یقه ما مازندرانی ها رو هم میگرفت و میگیره. وقتی میگی شمالی ام همه نگاها میره گیلان. من سبزی هر دوتا رو دوست دارم. البته اگه بچه شمال باشی حتی از سبزی رنگها میتونی تشخیص بدی که کجایی. دیگه لهجه ها و آداب و رسوم که جای خود داره.
چیزی که به ذهن من میرسه اینه که تمام این جکها که در واقع از "بی غیرتی " مرد رشتی گفته میشه از قدرت زن شمالی نشات میگیره. یعنی میگن مرد بی غیرته چون تو سرکوب قدرت زنش مونده. البته این قدرت در جکها جنبه سکسی میگیره و بی آلایشی زن شمالی و رو نگرفتنش تو این روزها تبدیل میشه به در دسترس بودنش!.

زندگی تو روستاهای شمال ایران کاملا به زن خوونه وابسته هست. بار اقتصادی خونه بر دوش زن هست. زنها هم کار شالیزار و زمین کشاورزی رو انجام میدن هم مسول تمام امور خونه هستن. بچه ها, شیر دوشیدن, نظافت, آب آوردن از چشمه, رسیدگی به بزرگترهای فامیل,و... تمام اینها وظیفه زن خونه هست که از صبح همپای مرد کار کرده تازه چای و ناهار مرد رو هم به موقع بهش رسونده.
مرد روستاهای شمال این رو میدونه. میدونه و میفهمه که بدون زن فلج هست. هنوز تو روستاهایی که خیلی مدرن نشدن تو نشستهای فصلی زنها هستن که نشستن و چپق میکشن و واسه آب فصل زمین با بقیه کلنجار میرن.
هیچ وقت اون احترامی رو که مردهای روستاهای شمال برای زنهاشون قایل بودم رو تو بقیه جاهای ایران ندیدم. احترامی از سر قدر شناسی . احترامی که الان برای خیلی از زوجهای تحصیل کرده ما هم بیگانه هست.

این همون موقع بود که زنهای شهر های ایران باید از مردها رو میگرفتن و جاشون فقط تو مطبخ بود و چند همسری یه رسم متداول بود.

زنهای روستاهای شمال خیلی وقت بود چیزی رو فهمیدن که زن الان زندگی شهری ما نمیتونه بفهمه. اونها تو زندگی نقش داشتن. به شوهرشون و پدرشون فهمیده بودن که به بودن اونها احتیاج هست. پس اگه من رو میخواهی نگهم داشته باش. کسی نمیتونه دست رو ستون زندگی اش بلند کنه. ستون زندگی رو باید نگه داشت. چرا زنهای امروز شهری ما نمیتونن تو زندگی مشترکشون نقش داشته باشن؟ فعلا فقط زنهای ما به مردهامون وابسته شدن و خیلی از مشکلات از اینجا شروع میشه. مردی که بدونه بدون زن زندگی اقتصادی اش میلنگه احترامش رو بیشتر نگه میداره. کاری نمیکنه که لرز رفتن زن بیاد تو زندگی.

پی نوشت تلخ:
انقلاب پنجاه و هفت بدترین اثری رو که میتونست تو این جنبه روستاها داشت. از وقتی پای آخوند و دیوار زنونه مردونه حسینیه ها به روستاها باز شد مردهای روستایی هم قد علم کردن. دیگه زن سیگار نباید میکشید. دیگه باید رو میگرفت. دیگه خیلی از دسته های نشا و درو شالی زنونه مردونه شد. جای زنها تو تصمیمات روستاها کمتر و کمتر شد. یه نسل بعد هم که دیگه اینها رو باور کردن. در حالی که مادر بزرگهاشون هنوز سروری میکنن این دخترها شدن تو سری خور. این بود که خیلی از جنبه های ناب زندگی روستایی هم از بین رفت. من از دیدن اینکه زنی تو روستا مانتو بپوشه حالم بد میشد. مانتو چه ربطی داره به فرهنگ زن شمالی؟

First of all...

Some of these are normal since we could easily see in other supposedly "Modern Countries" such as England. I haven't figured it out yet. Is it England, Great Britain or United Kingdome? I suppose each one of these names project on different aspect of that Island. England is an old name, GB refers to its imperialistic view and UK tries to cover its ethnical divisions within.Either way Northern Iranians as well as Southern Iranians and also Central Iranians as Souri said have been politically active (regardless of Russia). It goes back even to before and after Arab invasion when Russia did not exist as an ideological entity to feed its supporters.As a result people of Northern Iran have been the target of divisive statements from the enemies of Iran and as Abarmard and rest of you said it was propagated and amplified by people’s ignorance.

...

نه بابا،انقدر سخت نگيريد.ما ايرونيا ادماي با مزه اي هستيم،وقتي كه حوصله مان سر ميره،دوست داريم يه جورايي حال كنيم،تخمه بشكونيم جلوي در خونه و به دختراي محل متلك بگيم،الكي بريم در خونه هارو بزنيم و در بريم،به خونه همسايه سرك بكشيم و ديد بزنيم،بريم پارك نياورون و اونجا علف دود كنيم و خالي بندي كنيم،سر كلاس هندسه و مثلثات جوك بگيم از ترك و رشتيا و اداي ابي و داريوش رو در بياريم .
يادش بخير...

I don't tolerate them

I grew up listening to those jokes but now I won't tell them and won't alow anyone to tell them in front of me.  It's too divisive. I also appologize to all rashtis, turks, isfahanis, kashi's, etc. who have been subjected to these senseless insults.

As for rashtis, I believe because the rest of Iran is so backwards when it comes to women's freedoms that they see the relative respect & freedoms that women of North have as promescuity.  North is less Islamized therefore more civilized.

I don't agree with the

I don't agree with the above statement concerning the people of North Iran (among them, people of Rasht) are not politically involved.

If you dig a little bit more in the political history of Iran, you will discover most of the movement and resistance were rise from the North and specially from Rasht.

Due to their geographic closeness to Russia (Soviet Union at that time) people of Gilan and Rasht, became  more and more informed politically and culturally.

They have been very much active during the Shah's regime. Many of  the members of "Hezbe Tudeh" were from Rasht, indeed.

I believe, the fact that people of Rasht became more intellectual, earlier than other parts of the country, was a reason for them, to release themselves from the stupid protocol and wrong believes which has been imposed on our cultural  behaviour, by a retrograding religion.

So their "avant guardist" vision and

open minded reflection came on too odd for other people of the country

do you know where jokes come from?

Do you know that the majority of the Iranian jokes come from the prisons and "zendans" because the criminals in the prisons are so "beekar" that they've got nothing else to do instead of making jokes about ethnicities and people. So I think no one actually knows why they are thought to be "Bigheyrat" and that's just a joke with no explanation of why they are bigheyrat, just like the Azeris being stupid and Isfahanis being stingy. I think another reason that might be true is that these jokes are the result of prejudice due to lack of interaction between different ethnicities in Iran which might actually cause Tehranis (or others) to think that Rashtis are Bigheyrat.

But I don't believe that you are bigheyrat and hospitality and kindness form your character.

mazfayaz

Once I heard...

Some relative of mine told me what the reason for this popular ignorance of the Tehranis, and therefore adoptavie behaviour of some other areas of Iran, is! He said that the reason Gilanis are called names (especially 'biqheyrat') is that they have for long been the most progressive and open-minded people in Iran and although they are few in numbers compared to the rest of Iran their contribution to the Iranian modern civilisation and progress has by far been greater than most (probably all) other Iranian regions, simply because of their progressiveness and open-mindedness (compared to other areas of Iran). And I believe this is quite true. Great men of Gilan are very well known to Iranians. And there have been some truly great men from Gilan, compared to fewer great men from other areas of Iran.

Several factors!

Besides all the above reasons mentioned by other commentators, which are accurate, I think the fact that the 'lack of Gheirat' as many Iranians call it, is attributed to many others cities and regions of the Caspian area. I assume that part of it has to do with the fact that that region was always a touristic area, where others but specially Tehranis go to. Having such a large number of Tourists, plus the cultural facts of the region , such as women working hard along with men and therefore having daily contacts with the tourists, has a lot to do with this. It's definitely pure ignorance. The last 30 years have contributed to this very negatively. I see this as quite the opposite.

Another issue is with the city of Ghazvin and its people and its reputation that cannot be based on anything other than confabulations.

Its not the men

Their women are beautiful and the beaches offers extra opportunities. At least it used to, it must be different now,

Gheirat

For Iranians men Gheirat means :

All Women are slut except my wife, mother and my sister. and as they expect other Iranian men be like them. They are every time protecting their women ! They should start changing themselves.

I think Rashti people are inteligent and  look at other women as they could be their own sister (Be Cheshme Khahari).

There all those Gherati men who like IRI to keep their women in Tchador!

If I would be you, I would be proud to be Rashti ! Yes you can 

عقب مانده گی فرهنگی ما

يك دليل عمده كه تهرانيها در مورد رشتيها جوك می سازند به خاطر
عقب مانده گی فرهنگی جمعی از ما ايرانيان است.
رشت و شمال ايران جايی است كه زنان آن دوشا دوش مردانشان كار می كنند. ايرانيانی كه در جنوب و يا بيابانهای ايران زندكی می كنند اين را ننگ می دانند. در حقيقت فرهنگ شمال ايران پيش رو تر از مناطق خشك ايران است. و زنان آنها كار را عيب نمی بينند، و تهرانيها رو اين منطق برای آنها جوك ساختند كه چون اجازه می دهند زنانشان كار كنند پس بی بخارند و...

در فرهنگ عقب افتاده، كار برای زن برابر با فهشا بود
بيشتر اين جوكها در زمان رضا شاه رايج شد.