پاينده باد ايران

only 2 options (bullshit)

You sound like the great idiot who once said you are eiather with us or with the terrorist. Haven't u watch the videos of Israeli's killing innocents chillderens. they are same as bin laden, khomaini,....
They control the media and kill ppl in the name of peace, the other side just do it.

don't give a ,,,, about neighter. next time make sure u google more:)

Weak Thinking

This piece is really despicable. The line in the sand does not fall, as the author would like us to believe, between the supporters of Israel and her eternal foes. What inept thinking, so common among us Persian folk.
-----
Should we asses the merit of our views on the basis of their supporters? Would Bin Laden's decrying Global Warming turn the environmentalist into a terrorist? A pity this kind of thinking passes for argument in our community.
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But to humor the tortured logic on display here;
condemning the occupation, the destruction of homes,the collective punishment of Gazans and apartheid in the territories places me squarely in the company of righteous, rational people. People like John Meirsheimer, Norman Finklestein, Noam Chomsky, Americans for Peace Now, Rabbis for Human Rights, Uri Avnery, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty
International, Btselem (all bloodthirsty, Jew-hating, terrorist monsters like Zarqawi I'm sure, that would cut off your head like it was peeling a cucumber).
-----
I would never wish my enemy, and the Israeli Right among them, such shallow and illogical supporters.

Long live Isreal

Dear all,
Isreal this gem of a nation surrounded by foul smelling Islamic Palestinians should have the world's support which it has. The Palestinians are a bunch of terrorists who do not respect lives and are financed by the Arabs and also by Iran.
The only thing I can say is Long Live the Isrealis. They are real men and the Palestinians should be asked to start working for a living.
Regards
Doctor Pourandokht Rostamian of Sharifabad
Vancouver, BC Canada

hm... OK Jamshid... whatever you say

I start with the diversions? I critiqued a "tribal" mentality about Palestinians (on topic), and asked for evidence for your claims (surely you understand how it works by now, I've explained it many time.)

Failing on both responses, you drop the issue completely and resort to a violent fantasy.

"Copying" your "style"? Someone has a big ego around here. Hm... perhaps you should read more carefully. I'm the one who is a professional satirist here Jamshid. Don't flatter yourself unless you fully understand what you're reading.

eagerly waiting for your e-thank-you card on the said "advice."

Q

Completely ignoring the debat at hand? You should expect that when you start with your diversions and personal attacks. However, I know you are accustomed to doing this to a great extend in this site with impunity. But when you meet someone who can return the favor ten fold, it pisses you off because you are not used to it.

Being bothered to let go? What makes you think I am bothered? In fact, I find it quite entertaining to toy with you. Why should I let go? It's the weekend, be a sport.

By the way, you frankly disappointed me Q. I spent so much time trying to help you with your psyche, and I don't even get a thank you note?

Also, you seem to like my style, you keep copying it, just look at your last few responses. And still not a single thank you note for the free coaching? 

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Jamshid, it's clear this is bothering you too much to let go

I guess you should be proud of yourself for completely ignoring the debate at hand - to the extent your understading of such an activity reaches intelligent levels - and get bogged down on personal attacks, and fantasies of real attacks. It's not a surprise. The substance is over, you have nothing serious to say. Your body can't cash any check your mouth writes.

If I was losing as badly as you, I, too, might set aside the substance and attack the person in a fantasy... I might have done that in elementary school, but I'm a little more mature now.

You can call it "kenaye" or whatever you want. Quite contrary to your stated plan of exposing "me", it is the depth of your racist, violence-ridden mind has been quite widely exposed.

I'm not sure why "koonet misooze" so much? Did you expect me to take your so-called "kenaye", which really is "keeneh", and laugh it off?

You can psycho-analyze as much as you want, it provides quite a bit of comedy. You write some lame biased description of something and tell yourself you have "analyzed it". Sure, whatever makes you feel better about yourself my friend... ("here you use a verb and a noun, it means your a Mullah") real scientific!

by the way, not trying to offend you, just letting you know how lame you sound... you know, because I'm trying to help you.

Thanks for all the advice. I only have one for you in return: Jamshid, if you want to be taken seriously you must seperate fact from fantasy, and provide actual evidence for your claims, otherwise you will be vulnerable to be crushed in a debate even against any 5th grader.

Enough is enough, Q

When are you going to stop this nonsense debate over words and showing off your mastery of twisted arguments. OK, you have a 200 IQ, have read a zillion books, have the purest heart and are the most humane creature on the face this earth. But, you don’t have any common sense and are out of touch with reality.

What difference does it make if Palestinian killed any Iranian or how many? Are you denying where Palestinian sentiment lies? So, what is all this bullshit about a statement posted by someone to reflect where those sentiments lie?

Everything you have read and all your knowledge is worthless if it is tinted by prejudices and absorbed by a closed mind. You try to portray yourself as a human by posting:
“Palestinians as a people, are humans deserving of rights and help when they are being slaughtered on purpose, and their kids killed by tanks and bombs. Anyone with any sense of humanity is their friend.
Where does it put the lives of Non-Palestinian kids killed on purpose by Palestinians? It doesn’t matter how many and how. Contrary to your belief, life is precious and sacred, no matter whose life….You can’t in your right mind justify walking in a crowd and murder innocent people (regardless of your cause) and still claim to be human.
Now, you are masterfully going to twist this to the conspiracy theory of the west imperialism, Zionists crimes, and Israel’s lobby, etc….But, you and your supporters have to get this reality through your thick scull that Israel is here to stay and has the right to defend herself and her citizens. This has nothing to do with the garbage posted by “red wine” on this thread. Whether his post reflects (which I seriously doubt) the mentality of everyone who lives in Israel, it still is irrelevant. They still have the right to protect themselves by any means they can.
Go ahead and bombard me with excerpts of all the books you have read, and the quotes from every scholar in your directory. It will not change the reality of the situation. So, chill out and start thinking, some of that 200 IQ may come in handy…. If smart people like you give up their support of IRI we may have the opportunity to return to the land we love so much.

May we all live in peace

Re: Exploring Q...

Q, you are a facinating individual. You are smart, firm in your beliefs, have a good ability to communicate your thoughts through writing, and a champion of the "violated" people of the world.

However as I will explain below, you have allowed these positive characteristics to be seriously challenged by misguidedness,  hyporcrisy, insecurity, jealousy, paranoia, opportunism, desperation, and a strong desire to hang on to a deadend and outmoded ideology.

I will try to help you.

One could easily see signs of jealousy when you say things like, "you spent looking up fancy terms you were previously not familiar with..." This and other angry similar remarks which you have made in the past, displays your displeasure in others using "fancy" writing. You want to be the only one.

This is jealousy Q. You must not feel degraded when others can write better than you. Every one has his own level of talents and should not feel bad about it, that includes you too. (no offense intended)

I also see a clear display of hyprocrisy. You criticize me for having "spent 2 days coming up with a lengthy response...", while your responses are lengthier than anyone else's!

This is hypocrisy Q. You must not allow yourself to feel entitled to ciriticize others for the same flaws that you yourself display in even greater quantities.

I can also see that you are unable to cover your weaknesess, or to eliminate them. For example, in the past I have called you an "oghdei". This has obviously hit a nerve with you. In fact, it has so enraged you, that you are now using this word in almost all of your posts repetitively against me or others.

Q, this is insecurity at a subconscious level. You must assert self confidence and feel secure with yourself and not get so offended or enraged when someone uses a term that may or may not apply to you.

You also display signs of paranoia, desperation, and lack of intellectual recourse. For example, in your desperation to find a response, any response, to my remarks, you compared these two sentences which I wrote in two different posts:

1. The Palestinians betrayed and killed Iranians during the iraq war, despite having been the receipient of khomeini's generousities. That is a fact that even the mullahs are aware of.

2. previously argued that Palestinians betrayed Iran by siding with Saddam and sending volunteers to the front, despite being the recipient of Khomeini's generosities. 

You then criticized me for having "skipped the "kill" (ie, killed Iranians), in the second sentence. You used this as evidence that I am a lier because I keep changing my words.

This is a clear indication of suffering from severe paranoia. I am sure that for example, when a man who is walking in the street takes a glance at you, you immediately suspect that he must have a beef against you. You must be more trusing of people and try to calm down.

This could also be a display of desperation and lack of intellectual recourse. You are resorting to turning stones in order to find a response, just any response whatsoever, against the person you are debating. You must remain posed and take your time to find a solid intellectual response. If there are none, then you should reevaluate your ideology. A desperate attempt to stone turning only degrades you both in public and in your own subconcsious mind.

You also display signs of being an opportunist. I previously posted a fictitious "kenaayeh aamiz" story in order to make a point about how stuborn (por roo) you are. You then immediately grabbed the opportunity, and told yourself, "aha! Got him! He gave me the opening I needed... I'll show him..." You then tried to shove that post as "the true and real life story of Jamshid's childhood!  Jamshid the butcher kid from another planet! In his own words!" (Yawn.) Q, you must avoid resorting to exploiting others through opportunistic tactics simply because you end up finding yourself at the other end of the stick in the long run.

You have a strong sense of suspicion along with a good vision of finding the most minute faults in an ordinary citizen's testimonies. You also have a strong skill in applying fallacy in order to dehumanzie a citizen. In my opinion, you make a great state presuecutor in a fascistic state (Nazi, Islamic or similar) which is NOT a good thing. This should alarm you.

By the way, did you know that Goebel was suffering from almost the exact same set of characteristics I described above about you? That alone should make you think twice about where you stand. Also I want to reassert that by no means I was trying to offend you by writing this. I honestly wanted to help you.

Re: Q

یعنی میخوای بگی که تو حتی شعور این رو نداری که بتونی کنایه و واقعیت رو از هم تشخیص بدی؟
 
یا اینکه انقدر مستاصل هستی که خودتو میزنی به کوچه علی چپ و از هر  بهانه ای که دستت میاد استفاده میکنی تا زود بتونی بل بگیری؟

یا اینکه هر دو؟

oh Jamshid... your "oghdeh" knows no bounds!

Thank you for sharing this story. It really confirms exactly what I have been theorizing about you and your narrow-minded co-ideologues.

Violence, intolerance, homophobia, hypocrisy... it's all in there.

Your story of you beating up a kid, in graphic detail, simply because he wouldn't stop saying what he was saying speaks volumes. Why not just walk away if it bothered you that much? How far will you go to silence people by physical force if you're given a tiny amount of power? Thank god you will never get any. Thank god!

I'm not sure you can get any more clear description of "oghdeh" anywhere. You are the texbook definition of oghdei. The only difference between you and the Mullahs that you accuse is that they have alredy found an outlet. You have not.

Given the fact that you have zero power in your life, you resort to imagining physical assault upon others. A kind of fantasy world where you are a "MAN" and have the muscle to beat up others. What's really funny is that in your analogy you are winning! Perfect dillusional behavior. Meanwhile in reality, you stumble over yourself providing even the minutest amount of evidence for what you are asserting. When challenged, you first attack the messanger (by pretending you are "exposing" them), and then you give up and just imagine beating them physically in your mind. Real healthy.

We will have to assume much of what passes through your mouth are a combination of lies and fantasy. You can never prove any of it, and get mad at people for pointing this out. If you call this "winning", you have much bigger problems in your life.

دشمن اسراییل: نوم چامسکی ادوارد سعید مندلا

دشمن اسراییل: نوم چامسکی. ادوارد سعید. مندلا. دسموند توتو.

علی شریعتی. کودکان مسلمان و مسیحی فلسطین.

دوست اسراییل: بوش . ریگان. دست راستی های مسیحی آمریکا. دولت آپارتاید آفریقای جنوبی

Sure

You can even call Jews foes without putting any internet links.

OK, ZION

so it's OK to call jews "foes" if I put 4 internet links?

یادم میاد اون

یادم میاد اون روزها که بچه بودیم، بعضی وقتها که تو کوچه محله بر و بچه ها با هم دست به یقه میشدند، بعضی  وقتها یکی از این بچه های تخس پیدا میشد که هر چی روش رو کم میکردی بازم میامد جلو، و داد و هوار و نفس کش  نفس کش میکرد.

پشتش رو به خاک میمالیدی، باز بلند میشد قبول نیست قبول نیست میکرد.

بعد ایندفعه کتکش میزدی، باز از رو نمیرفت و دوباره میامد جلو.

ایندفعه میگرفتیش و از رو شکمش میخواباندیش زمین و موهاش رو از پشت سرش میگرفتی و پوزش رو خوب همینطور به خاک میمالیدی، همچین که ولش میکردی باز بلند میشد و هنوز هم زر زر میکرد .

خلاصه هر طوری جلوی همه خوار و حقیرش می کردی، مثل کنه ول کن نبود.

اصطلاحِ « بچه پُر رو» از اینجور بچه فوفولها ناشی شده.

حالا شده جریان این آقا پسر « Q » که هر جوری پوزش رو تو بحث به خاک میمالی، باز هم از رو نمیره.

آقازاده لابد قزوینیه.

Ridiculous

Nobody said anything bout hating anyone. It is only you guys who keep repeating this nonsense. It is about the reality out there and choosing your friends and foes with open eyes.

LOL Zion!

So if I can find 4 websites of Jews backing terrorism then it's OK to hate Jews? we can even call your suffering a pack of lies!!!

what an idiot! thanks god we are more openminded than you.

Palestinians and Saddam

`Palestinians as a people, are humans deserving of rights and help when they are being slaughtered on purpose, and their kids killed by tanks and bombs. Anyone with any sense of humanity is their friend. `

Indeed if this were true everyone should object to it. Fortunately for Palestinians (and unfortunately for you) this is not true, it is just a pack of deliberate lies.

Anyways, you just need to google to find some nice stuff about your palestinians and their hero:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3355924,...

http://app1.chinadaily.com.cn/star/2001/0118/cn13-...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/ne...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...

Very nice people, so peaceful and humane. Admiring such lovely `national` heroes. Very nice. Don`t you just want to give them a hug Q? What kind of a human being are you?

Stop making a total buffon of yourself Q. Don`t worry just smile, and the world will smile at you. Be Happy. Chill Out. Be cool... .

Zion, it's clear you don't want to answer the question

I pose it now for the third time, just so you can come with more excuses to dodge it. Well, it's the last time, I'm done with this. You've officially bored me.

Let me repeat my own question for the 3rd time:

I asked you how why you magically end up at every conversation that even slightly borders on Israel, and more importantly why you clicked on this one, an article you can't understand?

Even when you disingenuously argue that this is just "normal" behavior, it means you must go through the whole site, even the articles you don't understand just to read the comments. How else can you find out that the comments say something about Israel that you are "passionate" about? This is a very fair definition of "monitoring" that I used and it's really undeniable.

It's fine, I know you don't want to admit it and would rather take refuge playing the "antisemetism" card as usual. The fact it, we're talking about you personally not "jews" or even "zionists." There are other Jews on this site and they don't do the same thing you do, so it's not your genetics or your valuntary belief system.

I actually never demonize Zionists. I would have a lot of ground to do so, but I consider the term Zionism hijacked by a bunch of athiests for their own political purposes. There is such a thing as historical Zionism related to the Jewish religion and there are Jews and even people who call themselves Zionists who do not approve of the modern state of Israel. But they have been increasingly silenced in the west by the totalizing hegemony of people like yourself who frequently insult and dehumanize them as you do to Palestinians and Muslims.

This re-defined form of Zionism is an ideology, like communism, fascism and objectivism. That is people consciously choose to be a part of it. IN that case, they are defined simply by the ideology and thus you can say "Nazis are criminals" without stereotyping Nazis. That's the difference between ideology and a designation of people and identity like "Palestinian" or "Iranian" or "Jew".

I can't believe I actually have to explain this to you.

Therefore your critique and counter examples of my "tribalist" points are flawed from the start. "Palestinians" is an ethnic and national identity where people can have many different ideologies. Hence the point that "kids killed by Israel" did not themselves "kill Iranians", or even approve of it. If Palestine had a representative democracy at the time and a large majority voted to "kill Iranians", that would be a different story.

Jamshid: Your oghdeh runs deep and is exposed for all to see

You try to justify why you spent 2 days coming up with a lengthy response, looking up all kinds of classical rhetorical theory, and still produce not one shred of proof? You think you're clever by saying "I'm doing this to expose YOU!!!" and you think you are cute, thinking boldfacing your oghdeh actually makes it more legitimate. Silly and Laughable!

What kind of a obsessive vigilante, hides behind a fake name  and spends their time following other people just so he can write a huge rant to "expose" them as you have admitted you are doing? Isn't your whole story of being "betrayed" by IRI and now being "betrayed" by Palestinians in the front literally "Oghdeh"? Is anyone other than an oghdei resort to calling me a Nazi spokesperson on a website so easily?

The irony is that you are exposing yourself, my friend!

In all the time you spent looking up fancy terms you were previously not familiar with, did you ever come accross a little concept called "negative proof" ? You cannot prove a negative. You made an assertion about "Palestinians killing Iranians in the Iran-Iraq war" without any evidence to show that 1) this is actually true and not the result of personal delusion, or rumors and 2) it wasn't just 1 or 2 people, it was a significant number, enough to be mentioned.

Unlike you, I'm not in the habit of running off my mouth and making exaggerated bullshit statements. If I ever wanted to make a point about Azaris in the war, I would have the evidence to back it up. Not just assume my word is the word of god which is what you do frequently. It's irrelevant, because I never made that point about Azaris. "Fallacy Counterexample" my ass.

You whine and distort pretending that the important part of my challenge was about "numbers". Fine, I can excuse you for not being able to find numbers. Just show me any evidence even without specific numbers of "Palestinians killing Iranians" duing the war. Is that really unfair to ask? Let's ask anyone else reading if that is something unfair to except from you. You make statement A, shouldn't there be some proof of it? I mean, how dare I hold you to the most basic rules of debate? Right?

As for your desperate attempt to get out of what you yourself wrote. How pathetic jamshid! Here's what you wrote the first time on Tue Apr 22, 2008 03:28 PM

The Palestinians betrayed and killed Iranians during the iraq war, despite having been the receipient of khomeini's generousities. That is a fact that even the mullahs are aware of.

NOW on Thu Apr 24, 2008 05:00 PM CDT you write:

I previously argued that Palestinians betrayed Iran by siding with Saddam and sending volunteers to the front, despite being the recipient of Khomeini's generosities. 

Pile on another lie in a long long line of lies and exaggerations from jamshid. One about Palestinians "killing" and 2 about what you have said before. It does not get any clearer than this. You skipped the "kill" because you had no evidence! What a surprise... NOT!

The whole thing is stupid and pathetic and completely beside the point about your abuse of "Palestinians" as a monolithic group. You again do the same thing by saying they "betrayed Iran" by turning against Khomeini's generosity? But that is what you yourself did Jamshid! You turned against Khomeini in the oft-cited sob story of your life. So are you betraying Iran now?

You see what I mean about your "tribal" mentality and the "hypocrisy" about yourself? If you don't get it now, you will never understand.

More from you:

I never said that Palestinians suffering is unworthy just because some of them had killed Iranians during the war. It was you who falsely suggested this on my behalf.

True, you did not use those words, but that was the intention. Perhaps you can help me understand what you mean? It could not have been related to "strategy" or "trust" or "international relations" because you mentioned none of those things at the time and the discussion was specifically on suffering.

It was your own first post here that disputed Mammad about Palestinians suffering and they are not a "foe". He suggested that Palestinians are suffering and deserve sympathy for that. You come along and said "The same Palestinians who killed Iranians?" What is that supposed to mean? Did you mean that they are a "foe" ? Or was it just a meaningless retort?

If it was in any way related to the suffering discussion, then it is clearly dehumanization, exactly as I described because you are suggesting the suffering should be reevalued based your "facts." If it had nothing to do with suffering, it would not have been a response to Mammad's post. And in any case you could have affirmed it so explicitly.

Any normal human reading that response is forced to conclude that "we should not care about this suffering (that's what was being discussed by Mammad) because "Plestinians killed Iranians" "

I will be happy to have you state what you meant about Palestinians suffering in particular.

But the icing on the cake of racism, tribalism and stereotyping has to be this:

If there is ever a future war against Iran by an Arab nation, those same Palestinian "kids" will not hesitate, for one instant, to kill Iranians, if that will serve their cause, as their fathers did some 25 years ago.

Sorry, we must add "elme gheib" or "knowledge of the future" to the list of your abilities.

What does this mean in response to my post? I said exactly this:

Palestinians as a people, are humans deserving of rights and help when they are being slaughtered on purpose, and their kids killed by tanks and bombs. Anyone with any sense of humanity is their friend.

Do you agree or disagree with this statement? If you agree, than I was wrong to label you as such. I have no problem admitting it now.

To Q and all readers: An exercise in exposing fallacy artists

Q, this is a long response since I also wrote it for all readers who may have had the misfortune of arguing with you. It is meant to be an exercise in exposing your and other fascists' skilled and disciplined methods of diversion, deception and fallacy, copied from the book of Joseph Goebbel.

I previously argued that Palestinians betrayed Iran by siding with Saddam and sending volunteers to the front, despite being the recipient of Khomeini's generosities. Therefore they cannot be trusted as friend in a major crisis.

Q then took this simple statement and twisted it with the application of Goebbelist methods of diversion, deception and fallacy, in several rounds, to conclude that:

"You (jamshid) are a hate-filled person and know nothing but revenge and anger which exposes your personal oghdeh..."

A skilled fascist can take someone who says, "Palestinians cannot be trusted", and then by applying fallacy, reduce him to "a hate filled angry vengeful person". If in position of power, he can then even deliver that person to the execution squad.

Now let's expose and break down Q's Goebbelist methods in details. Q's remarks are in italic:

1. "Show me some figures about how many iranians were killed by Palestinians. It should be simple, if true."

You are starting your case with a typical method of fallacy: Ask for an impossible proof for a fact in order to downplay it. There is no way to come up with an exact figure of how many Iranian soldiers were killed, directly or indirectly, by Palestinian volunteers during the war, and you know it. 

Fallacy counter example: "Show me some figures about how many Iraqis were killed by Azari soldiers. It should be simple, if true (your own words). You can't provide an exact figure, therefore no Azari soldiers ever killed any Iraqis during the war."

Yeah right.

2. "which side of the Iran-Iraq war those Palestinian kids who Israel has killed were. How many Iranians have those Palestinians killed?"

You are now reverting to both diversion on one hand, and fallacy through appeal to pity on the other. You can easily be exposed here in one sentence: If there is ever a future war against Iran by an Arab nation, those same Palestinian "kids" will not hesitate, for one instant, to kill Iranians, if that will serve their cause, as their fathers did some 25 years ago.

3. "The fact that "Palestinians" "killed Iranians", and therefore their suffering is unworthy, is an absurdly false statement and indicative of deep seeded tribal mentality which you frequently exhibit"

In here you are using Goebbelist deception technique. You start with a true statement, make a true conclusion from it, thusly setting up the reader's trust, and then cleverly but falsely "suggest" that your opponent is against such "obvious" fact, thereby demonizing him in the eyes of the unwary reader. You will then use this to further build your case upon.

I never said that Palestinians suffering is unworthy just because some of them had killed Iranians during the war. It was you who falsely suggested this on my behalf. I simply said that we could not trust Palestinians during a major crisis. That has nothing to do with saying that their pain is unworthy.

4. "Some Palestinians (like Yasser Arafat) who had no legal representation among the Palestinians may have supported Saddam Hussein, but so did many other governments who actually could be said to represent their own people. Hence it is much more correct to say "Americans killed Iranians" than to say "Palestinians killed Iranians."

You are clever Q, but you have met your match. You are again using diversion in here. Ok, the "whole world" was engaged in killing Iranians. Happy now? But that does not get the Palestinians off the hook for sending volunteers to appease Saddam. Got it?

5. "After a certain age, people can't get past their racism...This must be the case with you."

This is a false accusation/premise on which the accuser can further build his case. Goebbel used this method a lot.

6. "Saying Palestinians killed Iranians and therefore justify hating them means that you should hate Iraqis 1000x more than Palestinians...You should also hate Americans, Turks, Mongols... who have killed Iranians... We should all hate Germans for killing 6 Million Jews..."

Here you are using the method of cleverly interjecting a false suggestion in mid-sentence (indicated above in bold face), and making conclusions from it in order to dehumanize your opponent in the eyes of the unwary reader.

The truth is I never said anything to "justify" hating Palestinians. It was you who falsely suggested that in order to deceive. Again for the Nth time, I said that they could not be trusted in a major crisis, which has nothing to do with hating.

7. Then you build on the above interjected false conclusion by saying:

"... (therefore) you should hate "Iranians" most of all because they are "terrorists".... Pretty soon you become the hate-filled person you sound like you already are and know nothing but revenge and anger... which exposes your personal "oghdeh" clearly visible everytime you talk about what you would like to do to this group or that group."

Here you are establishing your final conclusion: That the person who says Palestinians cannot be trusted must be a "hate filled, angry and vengeful person". If you were in the position of power (and many like you are in that position in Iran), you could then easily send that person to his grave.

Joseph Goebbels himself would have been proud of you Q. I hope this serves as an exercise for all readers to have a better understanding of Q's and other fascists' Goebbelist methods of diversion, deception and fallacy.

Zion, we know you are jewish but

do you have to be Jamshid's lawyer too? LOL

Re: Jamshid...oh boy...

What a load of nonsense Q. Jamshid never made any such claims and your efforts of twisting his words is simply pathetic. He is stating something very reasonable. He is asking why Iranians, like you, should be more catholic than the Pope when it comes to palestinians, forgetting the suffering of many others in the world including your own people when they have no love for you, when they back your enemies vote with your enemies and even fight with your enemies? Perfectly legitimate question. He does not mean all palestinians. This is obvious. The fact that you group them in one category, palestinian, however means that they have a shared identity, independent of their individuality, the same way Iranians have one and it is concerning this identity that Jamshid is correctly arguing. Otherwise why do the likes of you insist they, all of those sharing that identity, must have the land of Palestine for themselves, ad why `Israelis` have supposedly taken it from them. If it is only as individuals that you can see them, why can`t they have their home somewhere else as individuals. after all many Iranians for example had to flee their land and settle in foreign environments due to your beloved revolution and you don`t seem to care about their plight in any comparable terms, given each is facing an individual tragedy. Or why is it you hold `Zionists` to be racists and responsible for all your supposed crimes? After all have each and every zionist killed a baby?
Stop the hypocrisy Q and admit you have no answers to his legitimate and very pertinent question, and do not insult all our intelligence by slandering his justified and civilized sense of healthy nationalism with such nonsense as `tribal mentality` and `racism`.
Don`t make an even bigger fool of yourself than you have already done.

What Answer?

O, I`m sure you are not alone in your conspiracy illusions here. But seriously, what kind of explanation do you want Q? Don`t you realize what kind of nonsensical question you are asking? Making fun of it is the only civilized response I could have given. Why do I `magically` show up and comment on what I like to comment about. What business is that of yours? I do as all normal people do, I read stuff and comment where I think I have something to say or some knowledge that can be useful for people and contribute to the discussion. Israel is very close to my heart, I know about it and given the immense disinformation and shameless propaganda campaign waged against her by `certain` people here, many of those instances concerns Israel. These are all obvious, unless as usual being a jew or (gasp) a zionist makes normal actions automatically criminal?

Come on Q, I`m trying to be sport, facing your continuos repulsive bitterness. Take it easy baby.

Jamshid... oh boy...

Clearly indicate where "Palestinians killed Iranians" during the Iran-Iraq war. Show me some figures about how many iranians were killed by Palestinians. It should be simple, if true.

And then clearly indicate which side of the Iran-Iraq war those Palestinian kids who Israel has killed were. How many Iranians have those Palestinians killed?

The fact that "Palestinians" "killed Iranians", and therefore their suffering is unworthy, is an absurdly false statement and indicative of deep seeded tribal mentality which you frequently exhibit.

Some Palestinians (like Yasser Arafat) who had no legal representation among the Palestinians may have supported Saddam Hussein, but so did many other governments who actually could be said to represent their own people. Hence it is much more correct to say "Americans killed Iranians" than to say "Palestinians killed Iranians."

And this is really the crux of the issue, which you refuse to understand. They say after a certain age, people can't get past their racism, and old ways of thinking. This must be the case with you. Nevertheless I will try one last time to make you understand.

IF you are a fair and logical person (not holding my breath)

THEN Saying "Palestinians killed Iranians" and therefore justify hating them means that you should hate "Iraqis" 1000x more then Palestinians.

You should also hate Americans, Turks, Mongols, Afghans, Indians, Greeks, Russians, English, Centeral Asians and many more "tribes" who have "killed Iranians" for the rest of eternity.

We should all hate Germans for killing 6 Million Jews and hate Americans for enslaving black people, French for colonizing Africa, etc.

Also Jews are money grubbing terrorists. Jews kill children.

Logically of course, you should hate "Iranians" most of all because they are "terrorists", have also "killed Iranians" have mass-murdered mojaheds, etc. Pretty soon you become the hate-filled person you sound like you already are and know nothing but revenge and anger... which exposes your personal "oghdeh" clearly visible everytime you talk about what you would like to do to this group or that group.

This is of course stupid, something old senile people would think and act like. This is what I mean by "tribal" mentality. You do not afford individuality to others, in this case Palestinians. You want to say that they are all the same (kill Iranians, are anti-Persian, etc.) That's your thing you do it with everyone. For example, you hold Arabs and Islam today responsible for some horrible crime (much imagined, but that's not the point) 1500 years ago. Which is basically like saying "dogs are dogs, and I hate dogs."

Except for yourself -- hence the hypocrisy. You hold yourself seperate than other Iranians, like the ones in the IR Government right now. YET are ready to condemn "arabs", "muslims" and other people that you consider inferior for the (often perceived) crimes of some of their leaders.

Kapiche?

Zion, I hear a lot of BS, but still no answer from you

I asked you how why you magically end up at every conversation that even slightly borders on Israel, and more importantly why you clicked on this one, an article you can't understand?

A long, stupid personal attack, but no explanation. Is there something you are trying to hide through attempts at humor and double-talk? What's the matter with just answering the question?

BTW, I'm surprised (actually I'm not) you don't remember, because this was exactly the accusation you made toward me a few months back. Except yours was not a question, but a statement. So, don't act so shocked, you don't fake anything very well.

You seem to be monitoring this site for mentions of Israel, there is no doubt about that and any sane person can see it. I'm not the first to make this observation. If you are not paid, you are even more of a fanatic.

Go ahead and tapdance around this as much as you want. You only show how sensitive you are to this question.

For the record, what you wrote in the English language means you are comparing Arabs/ Persians relationship VERSUS East Europeans. But that's not relevant. It is still a racist statement against arabs (not some arabs, all arabs) and it's not the first time you have said it.

Anonymous_2

English is my second language and I will never be as fluent as someone like yourself who cannot even understand a word of Farsi. However, I am fluent enough to read and comprehend your posts.
You strike me as a communist who was born to and raised by a Jewish family somewhere in the west. I admit that you have read about and researched the formation of state of Israel more than many posters in here. But, my problem is rationalizing and understanding your motives in propagating your one-sided views. The views that are your interpretation of historical events and can only be your opinion, not facts.
Clearly you despise Zionism, which in my book is the movement of establishing a Jewish state in the land of zion. That movement succeeded in 1947 and state of Israel was formed. Are you suggesting that the movement should have not succeeded and you are advocating to reverse the process? To wipe Israel off the map? If not, do you grant the people of that state the right to defend themselves? If they have that right, where is all these other definition of Zionism comes from?
You will excuse my simple-mindedness and childish analogy, but, if I am threatened with annihilation I will do anything in my power to prevent or eliminate that threat. In doing so, I may resort to immoral acts if at the time I can’t think of any better way. This is not to justify or defend any actions taken by Israel to defend herself, but it is irrational and prejudiced to subscribe to conspiracy theory and blindly demonize every action taken.
Is it a crime to be powerful enough to defend yourself and/or repel the threats of destruction?
Would Israel exist today if they had lost either the 1948 or 1967 war?
Bottom line, Anonymous_2, what is your point? Do you just want to show off your mastery of English language and how much you have studied the subject? Where do you think we should be heading from here? Murder every Israel lobbyist, vote Obama into office with Jeramiah Wright as his vice president? Or, do you rather see Hugo Chavez run this country?

007

Yes Q. This is all a Mossad conspiracy, or is it Elders of Zion, or the Lizard blue blooded Zionists? Yes, since monitoring iranian.com is the secret key to defeating your glorious revolutionary regime, that is what I am being paid to do, and according to your kind of `logic` the Mossad can`t find an agent who can also read Persian in all its staff, so a watchful genius like you ends up revealing the truth. You finally managed to expose me. Mazel Tov!

(Seriously though, if you can find good arguments and institutions that would pay me for reading and commenting here, I will be very glad if you let me know.)

It is nice to have you back. I always find your type of paranoid rubbish quite amusing.
Amazing how you can speak wit such certainty about things you knwo nothing about. Q, you know nothing about my background. I puposefully deny the likes of you the pleasure of sterotyping me. But that is not stopping you is it? It is fun to watch your type obsessed with this and jumping up and down with crap like this. I like it actually very much. :-)

It is also interesting that you, who have to remind everyone how dumb they are not to comprehend what you really mean all the time, that you misunderstand some obvious stuff that I write. How dumb Q. How dumb.
Eastern Europeans are the worst antisemites there are. Arabs are angels compared to some of them. well I actually take that back, but you get the picture (or do you?). There is a reason why all Nazi death camps were in Poland.

So now let me ask you something. You mentioend last time that `everyone` knows what I say is wrong, yet you still keep being obsessed in exposing me. For whom Q? Is it because you cant bear light thrown on the kind of filth going on your dark corner and must immediately scurry around to paint it black? And given your positions and stances here, are we to deduce that your 'exposition' was basically a Freudian slip? ;-)

Double 0 Zion Out.

Re: Q

Clearly indicate the "lies" or the "oghdeh" in my post, or are you shamelessly accusing along with ranting as you are so accustomed to?

You don't like the word "oghdeh", do you Q? Does it hit a nerve? Perhaps it is so because there is some truth to it. One strand of DNA in parasitic ideologies is the "oghdeh" strand. I'll list the others if you request it.

Question for you Zion

This article is in Persian. You don't speak Persian, meaning you don't even know what people are talking about. Why did you click on a Persian title to come here? How can you not be able to read the article but feel like you have to read all and reply to the comments?

Like a loyal fanatic, you feel you must show up whenever there is the slightest mention of Israel, and pretend Zionism is the only path for Jews. How did you know to show up on this one page?

Do you go through every single article on this site on daily basis and read all the comments just in case there is one on Israel?

Are you getting paid to monitor Iranian.com???
Be honest for once...

PS. Your blatent racism "arabs worst, Persians better, East Europeans best", no doubt "Jews supreme" is becoming abundently clear through your own slips of tongue.

Jamshid: It's clear you did not understand a single word of my last reply to you. You continue to lump all people together on the basis of bunch of lies and insinuations. And your writing has more "oghdeh" than anything I've seen from any Mullah.

You are totally wrong but then again why expect anything else!

This is your problem not those you call Anti-Semites. If you like to equate Zionism and racism with being a Jew, so be it. I don't and I won't! Unto each their own.

Iranian Jews don't consider themselves Zionists (majority anyway); and they consider Iran their country and not Israel!

And yes, we have a right to criticze Israel and don't need anyones permission. And I will continue to criticize their policy and the influence of the Israeli Lobby in this country's affairs.

And you can't hide under the banner of Judaism to prevent anyone from criticizing Israel or Zionism.

Common the cats out of the bag, what are you speaking about!