Iranian Liberal Democrat

Traitor for one, servant for another!

 Masoud,

Following are your answers to my questions:

-----

MK: We do NOT support the PMOI. We unequivocally and fully oppose the PMOI’s ideology, leadership, and policies.

D: How can one praise Mosadegh and Rajavi in same breath?!

MK: We not only do not praise Rajavi, we strongly oppose him.

D: I'd say Mosadegh would spit in the face of likes of Rajavi. Don't you think so?!

MK: Yes, most likley.

---------

       So far so good. Now could you please elaborate why you strongly oppose MEK leadership and its ideology? Why do you think Mosadegh would spit on Rajavi's face? Why did Rajavi do?

        Now I agree with you that in a democracy everyone's civil liberties must be protected and we have to defend that regardless of their views. Great! So far so good. But the part we seem to disagree is whether MEK falls in that category.

        My argument is that some induividuals or groups forefit their right of participating in democracy because of their conduct. As a matter of fact some get executed or imprisoned because of that. I think MEK falls in that category and you obviously think not. That is why I asked you to elaborate on your opposition to MEK leadership etc.

        Also I can care less about the delisting in US etc. MEK is TRAITOR from the point of view of Iranians. They may be considered SERVANTS by some Americans like of Guliani! They are selling the secrets of their homeland as we speak.

        Terror, Treason and tyranny are synonymous with MEK. US justice system may only consider them as terrorist by they are traitors for Iranians. 

     got to go! 

Who to blame

Enjoy the civil the war from delisting MEK ... P.S. a civil war requires the will for sectarian violence on one on side ... it's not a prerequisite that every group of people agree to have a civil war or not.  By delisting MEK you'll also see executions in Iran skyrocket; travel visas denied routinely; people exiled on a permanent basis and unable to return to Iran ... and the list goes on. Lovely ... thanks U.S.A.  If you're one of those pushing delisting, make sure to leave your name and number so Iranians know who to blame. 

Peace.  

Farmarz, that so kewl!

Let's start our own, I promise I can come up with a mantra and a manifesto even if it would be in a jiffy!

Tiger Lily

If you are interested in the mechanics of how MEK pays US officials to give speeches and lobby on their behalf, here is how it works. And it is all legal and above the board. So don't get all excited!

The hard core MEK members contribute around $500/month to their cause. Given the number of MEK sympathizers around the world that adds up to millions of dollars per month. There are Iranian American groups in the US that are MEK sympathizers and are also completely legal that contribute to the legislators that support MEK causes. They fall under the general category of none-profit Iranian American Community of xx.

The speakers are paid through the third party agencies that get a percentage for booking these officials for $20-30K for a 10-minute speech. This way the terrorist laws get circumvented; all legal and clean!

EWWWAAA Ukkkkhhh EWWWWWWHHHHHHAAAA

some are neither anti listing or delisting; we aren't retarded idiots: we demand legitimacy  and adherence to a judicial policy .

It is what upholds a democratic system.

Do you know what the anti de-listing MEK gang are really afraid

are really afraid of?

They are afraid because MEK will skin IRI's @$$ and will go after all of its spies & nochehs in US with real names or pseudo-names, that's why!

Do you remember how in 1991 MEK conducted a coordinated attack against IRI embassies in thirteen countries?

Living in DC at that time, I remember it! Despite our disgust of the Rajavis and their helping Sad'dam, we cheered them when they broke into the Iranian Interest Section in DC and beat the crap out of its bearded staff.

The pro-IRR groupies in US are afraid of getting hammered by the MEK, that's why they are scared ***tless!

آخه اگه اینقده سوسول نبودی

که این حرفا بم بر میخورد، ولی‌ خوب..

اوه تورو خدا لوم نده که من جاسوسم :)

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

MK please don't play dumb with me or any other games

I repeat my post and obviously it was on your own topic of this blog and about and addrssing MEK/MKO

Once more , quoting my own post and legitimate questions:

" Human rights includes a set of rules of accountability for human rights violations and courts too. 

I ask again and for the upteenth time on this site, how does a terrorist group transfer funds to lobby politicians in the US legally and why should such a group be allowed to be above the law and request further "allowances" to be so through funding? "

آخه اونجایی که دسته بیل من شکسته ...

... واسه تو و جاسوس‌های دیگه، خیلی‌ درد داره :

//iranian.com/main/blog/shazde-asdola-mirza-83

در ضمن: وقتی‌ دو تا مهندس دارن صحبت می‌کنن

یه عمله نمیاد بگه دست بیلِ من شکسته

SAM: You have been ignored for as long as I remember.  Know your place and learn how to communicate first, then I may reconsider.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Maoud: You say potato, I say potaato

You really think there is much difference between your claim and what I have Paraphrased?

Fine... if you think the majority are in favor of de-listing, then what is all this non-stop effort here?

I tell you what is lying in my book … those who actively and deceitfully twist and turn facts in order to deceit people.

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

MK - THE PMOI KILLED KURDS IN IRAQ (NOTHING TO DO WITH IRAN)

MK,

I really don't understand your thinking in thie specific case. Yes, the vf regime abandoned democracy, yes, the vf regime were brutal tyranies...but dont ever forget that the PMOI/MEK/MKO actually worked with Saddam Hussein in brutally suppressing opposition in Iraq - NOT Iran. Their cooperation with him in gassing (i.e. using chemical agents) and killing innocent kurdish villagers (I am talking kids, women, old people) is documented. This had nothing to do with the regime in Iran - Nothing.

The brutality of the MEK/PMOI/MKO is proven. Established. Unquestioned. A Fact. And they were NOT defending themselves killing these villagers.

For God's sake, recognize that the MEK/PMOI/MKO are the Nazi's. If they had not fallen out with Khomeini's gang they would be part of the regime today...killing Iranians...on all sides.

Yes, rights and freedoms are worth defending for all - even you disagree with them. But remember the U.S. has close to 7 million people in Jail, Probation or Parole. Even here they take away people freedoms and deny them the right to vote etc. if they break the law. Laws have to stand for something and laws must be defended. While protecting free speech etc is legally protected, killing human beings is  not ... The MEK/PMOI/MKO are killers. Pure and simple. Do you want to see pictures of the dead villagers in Iraq?

PS: I do not use my name because I have a serious daytime gig, and any google search with my real name would show my blogs etc. But if you want me to contact you and give you my name - just let me know how to contact you. I am not hiding it from you or other Iranians, I am just realistic enough to know that people leave business meetings and google each other ... all the time. In my daytime line of work, writing these blogs and engaging in these interactions would be 'strange'. I don't know if you can understand what I mean. But that is simply a reality I need to face. 

MK: Actually, according to

MK: Actually, according to my observations, a very large majority of the posters support the de-listing of the PMOI. It appears to me that the supporters of the vf regime and NIAC are on the one side (opposing the de-listing) and almost all the others support the de-listing. Among those who support the de-listing are democrats (JM, NAMIR), socialists, monarchists, independents.

=======================

Bavafa/Mehrdad:  تو که میگی‌ اکثریت طرفدارِ مجاهدین هستند.

===========================

MK: YOU LIED.  I have never ever said such a thing.  WHY do you LIE??????  Shame on you.

Bavafa/Mehrdad

Bavafa/Mehrdad,

Are YOU able to conduct a debate without personal insults???????? I do realize that you are FRUSTRATED. Learn to deal with losing arguments. If you want to make insults, there is another blog where all sorts of people insults each other. Go on that blog and make yourself feel better. THIS blog is used for logical arguments.

Masoud

Liar Ministry spy: where did he say that:

"تو که میگی‌ اکثریت طرفدارِ مجاهدین هستند."

قسمِ حضرتِ عباس تو قبول کنیم یا دم خروس رو

If you really beleive in what you are saying

 "MK: Actually, according to my observations, a very large majority of the posters support the de-listing of the PMOI. "

دیگه اینقد هچر و پچر گفتن برا چی‌ هست؟  تو که میگی‌ اکثریت طرفدارِ مجاهدین هستند.

به جانِ جدّم که این آقا میرزقا، بقال سر کوچه ما بیشتر از این‌ها حالیش میشد

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Sepaas gozaram

Dear G. Rahmanian,

Sepaas gozaram.

Best,

Masoud

Dear Dr. Kazemzadeh:

A great article with sensible arguments and counterarguments. Keep up this wonderful work towards educating those who seem to have difficulty understanding the very basics of democracy!

Follow the pay check...

the same user ID's who day in , day out praise and cheer Islamist regime sponsored terrorist  scums like  Hamas, Hezbullah,  IRCG and khamenei's  bassij thugs  on this site, all of a sudden have become hysterical with anger and frustration about the possibility of a bunch of middle aged MKO members becoming de listed !

Pathetic, yet Hillarious . I like it :) 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Disenchanted

D:  Sheikh Khalid Mohammad, the Al Qaeda mastermind of 9/11 has civil rights but he is not allowed to form a group in US and participate in democracy! Because he is a mass murderer with an ideology that advocates violence and murder. So goes for Rajavi and his cult. IT'S THAT SIMPLE!

MK: False analogy. Al Qaeda is similar to the supporters of Khomeini and Hezbollah and Hamas in terms of ideology and practice. They are all ultra right-wing reactionary violent terrorist entities.

The PMOI is closer to the Liberation Theology in Latin America. They both attempted to combine Marxism with their faiths.

Your view has been PROVEN FALSE:

1. In many court cases in the U.K., EU

2. Even in the U.S. Federal court, the judge issued a writ asking the State Department to provide the PMOI with due process.

3. Numerous top former officials who direct knowledge are demanding the State Department to de-list the PMOI. They include a former Attorney General Mukasy. Attorney General is the no. 1 official in the U.S. on judicial/law enforcement in the executive branch. The notion that YOU (Mr. or Ms. Disenchanted) knows more about law than the former Attorney General of the U.S. is simply arrogance. In addition, former FBI Director Luise Freeh also has publically demanded the de-listing of the PMOI.

4. The PMOI was placed on the list due to POLITICAL reasons. The reason was to reward Khatami. The PMOI was kept on the list due to POLITICAL reason of making the terrorist regime happy so that it would not arm the extremist groups in Iraq to kill Americans.

5. You cannot say, group X is terrorist, and thus any group I do not like is also like group X. You need to prove that they are similar. Mere assertion is not convincing to any logical person.

D: Now, I know you are intelligent enough to understand the difference as much as everyone else on this blog. But as it is clear to everyone it seems you have an ulterior motive here. You have a bigger fish to fry!

MK: Yes, the bigger fish is the vf regime. It is not an ulterior motive. I wrote it in the Title of the blog. I am after the vf regime. As an Iranian DEMOCRAT, it is my duty to fight against the ruing terrorist regime. I am very open and honest about this. I have been doing this for a long time.

D: You say: "If the Obama administration kept the PMOI on the list, this will be widely understood by the Iranian people as a huge victory for the vf regime."

Which Iranian people are you talking about?! How long you have lived abroad?! Iranian people despise this group and its leadership. Take a hint from Iranians on this site.

MK: Actually, according to my observations, a very large majority of the posters support the de-listing of the PMOI. It appears to me that the supporters of the vf regime and NIAC are on the one side (opposing the de-listing) and almost all the others support the de-listing. Among those who support the de-listing are democrats (JM, NAMIR), socialists, monarchists, independents. In another blog a few weeks ago, I had compiled the names of those on each side. In the past few weeks, actually the number of those supporting de-listing has grown.

It is true that many despise the PMOI. It is also true that many despise the vf regime. It is also true that many despise NIAC. Do you agree?

While I am at it, it is also true that many of us despise the monarchists. It is also true that many monarchists despise my group.

D: You say you defend the civil liberties of POMI. But you fail to tell us what would be the outcome of spread of POMI's ideology. That is the outcome that we are all concerned about.

MK: I actually wrote one of the first blogs on this issue. It was posted in Feb which is about 6 months ago.

//iranian.com/main/blog/masoud-kazemzadeh/causes-and-ramifications-de-listing-pmoi-u-s-state-department-s-ftos-list

D: POMI/MEK as a group has to be banned. The leaders have to stand a trial. Foot soldiers who have no blood on their hands have to be un- brain-washed and return to the society to enjoy their rights. But not as POMI! That misguided ideology/group has hurt many people on many sides for too long.

MK: 

1. Would YOU also demand the same thing about IRGC? Would you demand the same about Basij? Would you also demand that Khamenei to be put on trial? Would you also demand Khatami to be put on trial? Would you also demand Mousavi and Karrubi to be put on trial? As you should know Khamenei, Mousavi, Rafsanjani, Khatami, Karrubi have held top positions in the vf regime which has blood on its hands. Many in the IRGC and Basij have blood on their hands. Why the double-standard?

2. Dr. Trita Parsi has had friendly contacts with officials of the VF regime.

//iranian.com/main/blog/masoud-kazemzadeh/documents-relationship-between-trita-parsi-and-vf-regime-official

And here is his view on IRGC being placed as terrorist group:

//niac.convio.net/site/News2pageNewsArticle&id=5710&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=-1

2.1. Do YOU demand that Dr. Parsi to be put on trial in Iran after the overthrow of the vf regime?

2.2. Do YOU support an in-depth investigation by the FBI to see whether or not anyone who has been a member of NIAC or has made financial contributions to NIAC has had any relationship with the vf regime?

3. Could you please provide a list of all the main groups that YOU want to be banned? Would YOUR list include the monarchists, IRGC, Mousavi, Rafsanjani, Basij, Khamenei, NIAC, Fadaian, Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan.

D: These are the subtleties that you ignore either by choice or by ignorance.

MK: I do not avoid any issues. If there is anything that I have ignored, please ask the question. I will try to provide answers to the best of my abilities.

I look forward to your HONEST answers.

Best,

Masoud

Ulterior motives & fallacy!

      Masoud,

    Lets not hide behind defence of civil liberties and freedom of speech.

    Sheikh Khalid Mohammad, the Al Qaeda mastermind of 9/11 has civil rights but he is not allowed to form a group in US and participate in democracy! Because he is a mass murderer with an ideology that advocates violence and murder. So goes for Rajavi and his cult. IT'S THAT SIMPLE!

      Now, I know you are intelligent enough to understand the difference as much as everyone else on this blog. But as it is clear to everyone it seems you have an ulterior motive here. You have a bigger fish to fry!

    You say: "If the Obama administration kept the PMOI on the list, this will be widely understood by the Iranian people as a huge victory for the vf regime."

     Which Iranian people are you talking about?! How long you have lived abroad?! Iranian people despise this group and its leadership. Take a hint from Iranians on this site.

      You say you defend the civil liberties of POMI. But you fail to tell us what would be the outcome of spread of POMI's ideology. That is the outcome that we are all concerned about. POMI/MEK as a group has to be banned. The leaders have to stand a trial. Foot soldiers who have no blood on their hands have to be un- brain-washed and return to the society to enjoy their rights. But not as POMI! That misguided ideology/group has hurt many people on many sides for too long.

          These are the subtleties that you ignore either by choice or by ignorance.

Two Questions for Iraj Khan

Iraj Khan,

1. What do YOU think about this article by Dr. Trita Parsi?

//niac.convio.net/site/News2pageNewsArticle&id=5710&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=-1

2. Do YOU consider the IRGC to be a "terrorist" group? 

MK

Iraj Khan

Iraj Khan,

Indeed, you and I are very very different. 

This is a link to YOUR view:

//iranian.com/main/2008/may/trita-parsipage1

And links to mine:

//iranian.com/main/blog/masoud-kazemzadeh/documents-relationship-between-trita-parsi-and-vf-regime-official

//iranian.com/main/blog/masoud-kazemzadeh/questions-niac-official

:-)

Mr Kazemzadeh,

You are all tangled up in defence of your own version of facts on the ground. 

The more you reveal your politics to the readers the more it seems to be irrelavant for today.

It belongs to a time long gone.

We Iranian Americans do not want Mojahedins, with the help of Israeli Lobby, to represent us . We know what Israel wants, isn't it the same as what Saddam wanted. An Iran under military attack and occupation is the goal. 

This scenario is not going to help us Iranian Americans.

Disenchanted

Disenchanted: I doubt that those who genuinely belong to"Jebhe Melli" are willing to supprt an organization that was used as a tool in the hands of Saddam in attacking their homeland!

MK: We do NOT support the PMOI. We unequivocally and fully oppose the PMOI’s ideology, leadership, and policies.

D: How can one praise Mosadegh and Rajavi in same breath?!

MK: We not only do not praise Rajavi, we strongly oppose him.

D: I'd say Mosadegh would spit in the face of likes of Rajavi. Don't you think so?!

MK: Yes, most likley.

D: How can one be a nationalist & also defend traitors like MEK?!

MK: We do NOT defend the PMOI. We defend the civil liberties and political RIGHTS of the PMOI. If this concept is hard for you to comprehend, go talk to someone from the ACLU and ask them what civil liberties mean.

According to the JM, we consider the monarchists traitors, but after the revolution, we opposed the lack of due process and the summary executions of the monarchists (e.g., Hoveyda). Although we consider the monarchists as traitors, we defend their political RIGHTS to participate in any and all elections in the post-fundamentalist Iran. Although we consider the monarchists as traitors, we defend their civil liberties. The same for all other groups.

Many (most?) Iranians consider fundamentalists (hard-line, reformist, Rafsanjani faction) to be traitors. Many consider Tudeh and other communists to be traitors. Many consider PMOI to be traitors. Many consider the Kurdish parties (Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan and Komel) to be traitors. Many monarchists and fundamentalists consider the JM and democrats to be traitors (for opposing their KING)!!!!!! On this very site, the monarchists write that Dr. Fatemi called the Shah "dozd" and thus was a traitor and should be executed!!!!!!!

If we go by what group is considered to be traitor and thus should not be part of the political process, NO party will be allowed to participate in politics!!!!!!!!

Each one of us has his/her own group that we consider an traitor and thus promote their repression and suppression. If Iran is going to be a democracy, we have to learn to co-exist and tolerate those with whom we disagree. Because dictatorial ideologies (e.g., monarchy, fundamentalism, Stalinism, etc) have been so dominant in Iran, our notions of civil liberties and political rights for those with whom we disagree seem strange for those so used to dictatorial ideologies. We need to learn about tolerance, co-existence with those with whom we disagree. These are the bases of building a democratic Iran. Repeating the fundamentalist mantra are not helpful for planting the seeds of democracy and pluralism in Iran.

Disenchanted

When hatred of NIAC - the prime motivation behind writing this blog - blinds some people to the extent that they are willing to do anything, say anything, and write anything, the result is this type of contradiction. Dr. Mohammad Mosaddegh would turn in his grave if he could read this blog. De-listing PMOI is not about NIAC. It is about the future of Iran. 

Presenting the situation as a choice between de-listing of the PMOI or making Khamenei and the VF regime happy is truly absurd, to put it, once again, extremely politely. The PMOI's power structure is the mirror image of the VF regime. It has an ideological leader in Masoud Rajavi who is above questioning, and a bogus "president" who was handpicked by her husband and is obedient to him.The PMOI's supporters are mirror images of the Basij and Ansaar-e Hezbollah. Just as the later view Khamenei as God's representative on earth [or God as Khamenei's representative in the heavens!], so do the former in regards to Masoud and Maryam Rajavi. Indeed, Masoud Rajavi has presented himself to his group as the deputy to Imam Zaman in his absence, and has claimed to be in direct contact with him, exactly the way Khamenei is presented in Iran!

 Any person with an iota of ability to think can see this, yet attempts are made to see us such an absurd choice. But, this type of blog has one positive result: We all learn where everyone stands.

Mammad

responses

A: In a democracy the right to free speech, freedom of assembly, participation in elections etc are all protected and should be protected. But if any one group decides to put aside the democratic process and take up arms AND TERRORIZE other political groups (i.e. NOT follow the electeral process), that activity CAN NOT AND SHOULD NOT be protected in a democracy.

MK: You are absolutely right.

A: The point I am making is that the second PMOI/MEK/MKO took up arms they abandoned the democratic process and became a terrorist group. The quote ..."

MK: You are 100% wrong. The PMOI took up arms against the Shah and the fundamentalist terrorist regime. Both the monarchy and the fundamentalist regimes were brutal savage tyrannies. It was the Shah that destroyed democracy and freedom in Iran. It was Khomeini who destroyed the spring of freedom in Iran. Once the ruling savages destroyed the democratic process and use massive violence against the people, the people of that nation have the right of self-defense. One may agree or disagree with armed struggle, but we cannot say the people do not have the right of self-defense and armed struggle. We Mossadeghis do not use armed struggle, but we do not condemn George Washington and Jefferson and the Americans for using armed struggle against their colonial masters.

A: ..."they came frist for the ...and I was silent" ...comes from regrets about standing up to the Nazis in the 1930's. The problem here is that the PMOI/MEK/MKO ARE THE NAZI'S.

MK: You are 100% wrong. Those who came and mass murdered, mass tortured are the fundamentalist regime. Khomeini first came for the monarchists, then feminists, then democrats, then Bani Sadr, then, Marxists, then PMOI. The equivalent of the Nazis in the Middle East, North Africa are the Islamic fundamentalists (e.g., supporters of Khomeini, al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Taliban, etc).

A: They have no democratic history in their organization, MAryam and Masoud have been in charge without elections for 30+ years

MK: You are right.

A: One final point, it is NOT an argument to say that the regime in Iran is brutal, or terrorizes the population - therefore opponents have no choice but to be the same way (to oppose them). Many wise leaders (Ghandi for one) showed how non-violence can be more powerful than violence and ultimately lead to real democratic institutions.

MK: Gandhi was struggling against the British after WWII. Civil disobedience may work against the British or in American South. But it does not work against the Nazis. The questions is would it work against Islamic fundamentalists. Those of us who believe in non-violence pursue our method of struggle and those who do not think non-violence works with the fascists have the right to use their method of struggle.

A: We need to win the "intellectual" battles in Iran. One massive general strike, or one large "strike" by oil workers - would be the end of the regime in Iran.

MK: I believe that the pro-democracy has won the intellectual battle in Iran. The question is how to get rid of the terrorist regime. If we call for general strike by oil workers and they went on strikes, what do you think will happen? The vf regime would literally go and take out 100 workers and hang them publically in the neighborhood and order the rest of the workers to break the strike. Are YOU willing to go and be hanged or would you break the strike and go to work? YOU are afraid to use your real name when living outside Iran and are demanding the people inside Iran to be willing to be hanged!!!!!!!!!! We are confronting one of the most vicious genocidal savage regimes in human history. We need to be realistic and see what works and what does not work.

Best,

MK

============================　

Shazde jaan,

Thank YOU my friend.

Best,

MK

=============================　

Mehrban jaan,

I fully agree with you.

Best,

Masoud

================================　

Roozbeh jaan,

Thanks for your contributions.

Best,

Masoud

===================================　

M: It ignores the terrible track record of the PMOI, and tries to present it as a democratic group, which it has never been.

MK: You are 100% wrong. Nowhere in this blog or in any other blog, I have written that the PMOI is a democratic group. The PMOI is not a democratic group. To the best of my knowledge NIAC members are not allowed to vote for its president; therefore one may not call NIAC a democratic group either.

M: It also presents, for example, the nationalist-religious coalition as "being close" to the ruling group, which cannot be farther from the truth.

MK: Mohandes Sahabi, himself, stated something along these lines. He said something to the effect: "maa jozi az en nazam ya dar kenar en nezam hastim." I agree with Sahabi.

M: And most of the leading figures of the Reformists are languishing in jail, and since the 1990s have been in and out of jail. Yet, they are still presented as "part of the nezaam."

MK: Khamenei himself stated that the reformists are part of the nezam, Khatami has said that he supports the nezam, Mousavi and Karrubi were allowed by the nezam to participate in the closed elections. Mousavi and Karrubi support the nezam and repeatedly praise Khomeini.

M: And, to say that de-listing PMOI is a victory for hardliners is utterly absurd. The organization has no social base of support in Iran, none whatsoever.

MK: The vf regime official offered $80,000 to a Canadian expert to write that the PMOI was a terrorist group (so that Canada would keep the PMOI in its list). //iranian.com/main/news/2011/07/10/activists-say-spy-chief-right-china-spying

You, yourself last year on this site were complaining that CASMII did not publish your articles because you criticized Ahmadinejad and supported the Greens. Now CASMII is opposed to the de-listing of the PMOI and posts many articles on this. What does this tell us???????

//www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/11617

//www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/11616

//www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/11613

//www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/11611

M: And, the VF regime is not concerned with PMOI.

MK: :-)

==============================　

Bavafa: Lastly, if we are going with the premise and principals of all groups must be allowed to participate in the future of Iran, then we must afford the same openness to IRI leadership, including Sepah and Basij if we are to avoid act of a hypocrite. So, unless Mr. Kazemzadeh or other advocates are willing to openly campaign for the rights of IRI/Sepah leadership, he/they are applying their advocacy selectively and hypocritically.

MK: How the fundamentalist terrorists should be treated is a different matter than those in the opposition to the terrorist regime.

It really depends on how the terrorist regime is gone. If there is a gradual step by step transition to democracy in a negotiated manner, then the opposition groups could offer amnesty in exchange for free elections (as did occur in south Africa and to some extent in Chile). But if the terrorist regime is overthrown in a mass uprising, then the people will themselves hang the terrorist officials from the trees and lamp posts. If the terrorist regime is overthrown in a war then what happened to Saddam Hussein will happen to fundamentalist terrorists.

As a matter of fact, after the overthrow of the Shah, JM and a few members of Nehzat Azadi were the only ones who defended human rights and due process for the monarchists and even those who had committed crimes against humanity of the Iranian people.

If there is a gradual transition to democracy, we have no problem that hard-liners to participate in FREE and democratic elections. It is called "democracy vs. justice." Justice would require that all genocidal murders to be put on trial and punished. However, in order to have a non-violent transition to democracy, and have reconciliation, it is necessary to allow the mass murderers go free on the condition that they tell the whole truth and apologize. In South Africa it was carried out under the banner of "Truth and Reconciliation" commission by Desmond Tutu. This outcome was possible if Khatami had backbone and was willing to stand up to Khamenei. Unfortunately, Khatami chose to side with the nezam rather than fight for a transition to democracy. This scenarios (soft landing) occurred in the former USSR under Gorbachev.

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Tiger Lily: I ask again and for the upteenth time on this site, how does a terrorist group transfer funds to lobby politicians in the US legally and why should such a group be allowed to be above the law and request further "allowances" to be so through funding?

MK: Please be clear, are YOU talking about the vf regime and NIAC? Are YOU asking the FBI to investigate every single person who is a member of NIAC or has made a financial contribution to NIAC to see whether or not there exists any relationship between that person and the vf regime?

democracy club - invitations only

anybody has any objections to islamists (pro velayat faghih) participating in the political system of a democratic iran (post-velayat faghih)? 

جنگ زرگری نیاکیان با نیوکانان!

When is this decision due anyways?

We need to move forward.

I can't wait...

...to read the reply to Disenchanted...