Persian Realm

Libya's revolutionary militias are reluctant to down weapons

Keeping guard (bbc)

More than two months after the death of Col Muammar Gaddafi - and nearly five since he was removed from power - Libya's new government faces problems in securing order.

Tripoli's international airport is now a bustling little place. It is scruffy and in need of a make-over but it is a vital lifeline for Libya as it reopens for business.

Roaming the terminal floor and patrolling the runways are soldiers for whom this is their power-base.

They are ex-rebels from the town of Zintan, south-west of the capital, who captured the airport a few months ago.

Libyan militias clash in Tripoli

Libyan militias clash in Tripoli (VIDEO BBC)

4 January 2012 Last updated at 09:23 GMT

In Libya, four people have been killed and at least five have been injured in a firefight between militias in the centre of Tripoli.

A brigade from the city of Misrata clashed with an armed group from Tripoli over an old intelligence building between Zawiya and Saidi streets.

The skirmishes highlight the continuing security threat posed by disparate militias with significant power in the absence of a national army or police.

Shaimaa Khalil reports. 

Gaddafi death 'may be war crime' say's ICC's Luis Moreno-Ocampo

Gaddafi death 'may be war crime' (bbc)

The death of Libya's former leader Muammar Gaddafi "creates suspicions" of war crimes, says the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court.

Luis Moreno-Ocampo said the ICC was raising the concern with Libya's National Transitional Council (NTC).

Col Gaddafi was killed on 20 October after being caught by rebels in his home town of Sirte.

NTC officials initially said he died in crossfire, but promised to investigate following Western pressure. 

Libya ex-rebels still hold 7,000 prisoners, says UN

Libya ex-rebels 'hold 7,000' - UN (bbc)

Former Libyan rebels are still holding about 7,000 prisoners, the United Nations says.

The detainees are being held without access to legal process because the police and courts are not functioning, and some may have been tortured.

Many are sub-Saharan Africans suspected of being mercenaries hired by the Gaddafi regime.

The UN said the new Libyan government had responded positively when pressed to deal with the issue.

The BBC's Barbara Plett in New York says this was the first UN assessment of the situation in Libya since the end of the eight-month civil war.

The report, by the UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, estimates that 7,000 prisoners in Libya are currently held in prisons and makeshift detention centres, most under the control of revolutionary brigades. 

'I spoke to Gaddafi before he died' say's Libyan fighter

'I spoke to Gaddafi before he died' (VIDEO BBC)

Libya is still adjusting to life after Colonel Gaddafi, after the dictator was killed in contentious circumstances at the end of September.

Mohammed Sheba was one of the rebel fighters who was there when Gaddafi was pulled from his hiding place in a sewer pipe in the city of Sirte.

In the short time between the deposed leader's capture and his death, Mohammed Sheba had the chance to speak to Gaddafi about his home city of Misrata and what he had done to the country.

Mr Sheba told BBC News about Gaddafi's fear during their conversation and his own frustration over the former leader's death.

BBC Radio 1 Newsbeat is running a series of special reports from Libya from 28 November - 2 December. 

Trial of Saif al-Islam Gaddafi will test Libya justice

Gaddafi son's trial to test Libya By Rana Jawad (bbc)

The International Criminal court has accepted that Saif al-Islam Gaddafi will be tried on Libyan soil and not at The Hague.

As it stands, the ICC's involvement in the procedure of Saif al-Islam's trial appears as though it will be minimal, and it will have a consulting role.

The International Criminal Court indicted the fallen Libyan leader's son for alleged war crimes during the uprising in February and the subsequent nine-month conflict. It is now understood all round that whether Saif al-Islam will be tried on Libyan soil or at The Hague tribunal, is no longer in question. He will be tried in Libya - eventually.

During his visit to Tripoli, the chief prosecutor of the ICC, Luis Moreno-Ocampo said, "The standard of the ICC is that it has to be a judicial process that is not organised to shield the suspect… and I respect that it's important for the cases to be tried in Libya… and I am not competing for the case."

Mr Ocampo later added that it was not his role to tell Libyan officials how to hold a fair trial.

ICC prosecutor accepts Gaddafi's son 'to face trial in Libya'

Gaddafi son 'to face Libya trial' (bbc)

The International Criminal Court's chief prosecutor has accepted that Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam will be tried in Libya, not The Hague.

Gaddafi's spy chief 'is captured'

Gaddafi's spy chief 'is captured' (bbc)

Col Gaddafi's spy chief Abdullah al-Sanussi has been seized by fighters, Libyan officials say, a day after Saif al-Islam Gaddafi's capture.

Mr Sanussi, 62, is being sought by the ICC in connection with the repression of protests against Gaddafi's rule earlier this year.

He has also been accused of human rights abuses, including his implication in the massacre in 1996 of more than 1,000 inmates at the Abu Salim prison in Tripoli. 

Rea Jan Regarding the Moral Dilemma ...

Rea Jan to begin with 'North Africa' isn't the 'Middle East' 

I am not rejoicing at the bloodshed in either camp but one has to be realistic as to the way events unfold in the region which differ from one country to another.

I understand your concerns and anger in the face of the type of injustices we can observe be it in Libya or elsewhere because we all react based on how we see events and interpret them as powerless outsiders of a human drama.

We are all human after all ... 

And emotional outrage one way or another is normal ...

I fully acknowledge your emotions all the more that having experienced a revolution first hand I know perfectly that "Mob Mentality" is the last thing I would advocate when it comes to Nation building let alone when it comes to putting alleged criminals on trial.

I hated the way brave officers of the Shah's Military were executed after the Revolution.

I also hated the way Cauescescu was killed off with his wife after a ridiculous Televised interrogation by people who served in his government and used the occasion to hide their own responsibilities.  

But in the case of Libya and most probably Syria as we are speaking currenty what took place goes beyond the type of circumstances that occur in classic Revolutions.

The passion and anger Gaddafi faced is proportional to the hatred he triggered.

The violence and arbitrary trials that take place in revolutionary times are are often proportional to the way the former leaders handled the upheavals. More often they are even disproportional as was the case in Iran after the revolution or France at the time of the unnecessary Reign of Terror.

Far from being "happy" or "satisfied" by Gaddafi's son's predicament I am first and foremost concerned about the political implications for the Transitional Council.

And I am not alone in feeling concerned: 

Political impact of capture 

But we have no control on these events, I am not sure who does in such sensitive situations where Political White Collars have to calm the Mobs over which they have little control.

In this context what matters to me as an outside observer and someone who admires the courage with which the Libyans fought for their freedom is to see what signs of direct control the current Transitional Council has on the course of events and how can it impose it's authority on a nation torn by internal divisions and an 8 months bloody conflict triggered by only One Mans Lunacy: Muamar Gaddafi.

Other than that what do you expect me to say ?

That I value Human life no matter who is arrested, humiliated or killed ?

Or that Brotherly Love is essential in human relations and particularly when trying to build a new nation ?

That Blind Vengeance can only doom the process of national reconciliation and is in no way going to heal the scars of a torn nation ? 

I don't think I need to justify myself as to where I stand on these difficult ethical questions ...

All the more that I never try to ignore them when covering such dramatic events ... 

THE MORAL DILEMMA: BBC Debate - Should Nato have Interfered in Libya? 

But I would like to know where was the outrage amongst all our Citizens of the World and other Peaceniks when these same Wolves were treating the Libyans without the slightest pity ? ...

Barack Jaan So was it "Yes We Can" Or Was It Just "Hot Air"?

WHO'S THE EXPERT? John Simpson Proves Barbara Slavin Wrong on Libya

US, UN, Europe and the Arab League SHAME ON YOU !

IMPOTENCE IN ACTION: Western Powers Can't Figure Out How To Deal with Gaddafi

Including our Russian and Chinese "Moralists"  ? ... 

Russia criticizes Western military intervention in Libya

And is doing everything to keep another tyrant in power:

Russia Criticizes Arabs Over Position on Syria

Russia Criticizes Western Calls for Bashar al-Assad to Step Down

again if France's Sarkozy had not pushed for an intervention those who would have been six feet under would have been the Libyan people at large ...

DK, do you honestly believe

... things will get better in the Middle East because Saif has been captured ?

Why don't they just say he'd surrendered to stay alive ?

What's wrong with us, since when we wish other's blood ?

Huge Crowd had stormed Saif Gadhafi's plane before evacuation

BBC's Jon Leyne: Libya is not a signatory to the ICC

Jon Leyne BBC Middle East correspondent

The International Criminal Court has a warrant for the arrest of Saif al-Islam Gaddafi. Ideally ICC judges would like to see him tried in The Hague.

But they have quickly realised that is not likely to happen. The Libyan authorities are committed to trying members of the former regime inside Libya.

Allowing Saif al-Islam to be taken out of the country would be hugely unpopular. Quite possibly the Zintan brigade soldiers who now hold him would refuse to transfer him to the central government. And Libya is not a signatory to the ICC.

So instead, the court is already working to try to ensure a fair trial inside Libya. For Saif al-islam Gaddafi a trial in his own country means he could face the death penalty. That's something that would not have happened if his father had signed up Libya to the ICC, where the maximum sentence is life in prison.

dear truthseeker, thanks

for your comment. yes, ao is a great contributor, and it is nice that you feel a closeness to him.

lets spell it out

Because you are playing the non-Iranian card. I thought you were out of here and you are telling me to get lost?    :)

Here's some Ali G for you, his famous words when people dont agree with him: "Is it cos I is black?" 

Ali G - Ain't that a bit racialist 

TS, sneaky ?

Who the hell is sneaky ?

I may be a bit emotional right now, give you that. Yesterday was 20 yrs Vukovar fell, 4,000 people died, hard, but I'm not sneaky.

I'm just trying to make sense of what's going on around me, that's all.

Calling your English ignorant, reporting to Admin, manipulating people on IC, what the hell are you talking about ?

My last word to you, get lost, OK !

dear Anahid

Thank you for your very civil comment and I admire your honesty. I do not make many comments on this site or in life generally unless it is absolutely necessary and if noone else will due to "social" reasons, or if they are intimidated.  I promise you I could write many many comments to congratulate peoples blogs, say "Great comment", but I dont see the point as there are plenty of people who do that. It is only when people say outrageous things that I will say something, and you know what occasions they are: Human and Animal Rights, bullying, lies and false statements. The only blog where I do make reguler comments is AO, as I share almost all of his views! Perhaps I have one kindred spirit in this place.    :)   

Dear truthseeker

point of communication is not always challenging the other side. you seem to be of the mind set that point of any communication is challenging the other side. there are people on this world  who communicate not just to challenge. may be rather than constantly challenging, you need time to reflect on your previous challenges and how sometimes you were just challenging even before you underdtood what the other side meant. some people get bored of constant challenging and want their communication build up to an understanding of the other side not just challenging back and forth as if it is a table tennis game.

Oh Rea or other sensitive folk

You call challenge an attack, and bring up the non Iranian issue .... how disappointing and sneaky. You make all sorts of claims about the Hague and your superior knowledge, while you claimed he was being punished for his fathers crimes.

Then calling my English ignorant, which is OK. I recall you cheering a blog that some would say is an attack on Fred.... How come you people are so sensitive when you are challenged for your comments? Really Rea, if you feel I am attacking you please report me to Admin but don't try to manipulate people on IC.  Whether you are iranian or not, what you write will be challenged, and to play on that is dishonest.

Sorry but my sympathy will be saved for abused Iranians and others who are "sodomised" by their  regimes. Not those who are more concerned with the feelings of international criminals.

Rea Jan Your comments are Always welcome on my blogs

Look forward to your insights always regardless of what other 'self righteous' commentators may think ...

warm regards,

DK 

Attack, attack !

Let's drive those few remaining non Iranians out.

//youtu.be/w018KGu0Y0Y

All ignorants ...

I agree. 

TS

Ignorant Americans should also be prepared "to be picked up on it".

I've got nothing to do with "regulars" or whoever. I read, I learn, I agree, I disagree, I appreciate or not, I comment or not.

Having said the above, out of here, cheers.

Saif al-Islam 'slightly wounded' during Capture

Saif al-Islam 'slightly wounded' (CNN)

Saif Al-Islam Gadhafi, the second oldest son of Moammar Gadhafi, is arrested in south Libya.

What Saif al-Islam's capture means

What Saif al-Islam's capture means (cnn)
    CNN's Ben Wedeman discusses the significance Saif al-Islam Gadhafi's capture for the new Libya.

What is not a serious matter to you Rea

may be to others, that is why sometimes it is worth looking up the subject before passing outrageous judgment. Whether you stand behind flippant comments on serious issues is up to you, but be prepared to be picked up on it. Priority of some people here is truth, irrespective of how popular/unpopular it makes them with the regulars on this site. 

Tripoli 'celebrating' news of captured

Tripoli 'celebrating' news of capture (bbc)

Colonel Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam has been captured, Libya's interim justice minister is reported to have said.

Saif al-Islam was said to have been trying to escape when he was taken.

He is wanted by the International Criminal Court for alleged crimes against humanity during the uprising against his father.

The BBC's Rana Jawad says there were scenes of celebration in Tripoli. 

TS

"Empty emotional statements", maybe.  But at least I stand behind my empty statements, with all my emptiness.

N'importe quoi, insulting too !

Rea Jan where did you see me saying it did ?

I have my own opinion on Gaddafi's Regime and clan. 

But News is News ...

I can post CNN if you wish in relation to this conflict or Al Jazeera if you wish.

As I said I wish to see the fellow put on Trial in a fair and decent way and do not wish him the same predicament as in the case of his father.

But I think my previous explanation was fairly clear as to where I stand irrelevent of what some Libyan "experts" may think.  

DK, what does BBC prove ?

What do we know about Saif except what BBC and Figaro are telling us?

Saif's role in Gaddafi regime

Saif's role in Gaddafi regime (VIDEO BBC)

Colonel Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam has been captured arrested near the town of Obari in the south of the country, officials from Libya's interim government have said.

The former leader's son is the last key member of the Gaddafi family to be captured or killed.

Humphrey Hawksley has been looking back at the prominent role he played in his father's regime.