معمای فالگیر روستایی

معمای فالگیر روستایی
by Ari Siletz
10-May-2011
 

فالگیری در یکی‌ از روستا‌های دور دست ایران سندی بجا میگذارد که ماه‌های ایرانی‌ را به نام‌های نامتدول می‌خواند. در این سند فهرست این نام‌ها بدون رعایت ترتیب نوشته شده ولی‌ استاد مهدخت نکته بین، متخصص این جور کارها،  در عرض چند دقیقه گمان زد که کدام نام مرادف فروردین، کدام مرادف اردیبهشت...و غیره است. این فهرستی بود که بدست استاد نکته بین رسید:

خوشمزه،
پشیمان،
تاج،
پیچیده،
بُز،
چشم،
شمشیر،
کمان،
پشتیبان
بچه،
چوپان،
پیشتاز،

 

۱. به نظر شما فهرست تصحیح شده استاد نکته بین به چه ترتیب است؟

۲. آیا گمانی از خود دارید که ترتیب دیگری را پیشنهاد دهد؟


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more from Ari Siletz
 
Souri

Thank you Ari

by Souri on

You are a genius!

I liked  your clever system! Sad afarin to you and of course to Mehrban! Very smart !


Ari Siletz

Puzzle solution

by Ari Siletz on

The number of alphabet dots in the Perisan alphabet spelling of the word is the number of the month. Kaman has one dot on the "n," and no other dots so it is Farvardin. Boz has two dots on the "b" and "z," and no other dots so it is Ordibehesht etc...

As mentioned before this is just the simplest explanation for the sequence. Other solutions may exist and part of the fun may be looking for them. For example All-Iranians attempted a pictographic approach with shamshir as Sagitarius. In that system Boz could be Aries or Capricorn.Chashm could be Cancer in the picture above (two eyes). Taaj= Taurus (something on top of the head). Leo in the picture above looks quite Pashiman to me.

 

Another system proposed was literal meaning, putting Pishtaaz as Farvardin and justifying the others from there. Another approach was Souri's which looked into the characteristics of people born under the zodiac signs. All creative ways to go about proposing an organizing principle that characterizes the list.

I would be interested to hear from our Four Wheel Award winner as to what theory she was going by in her first list.  Vildemose with Tir= Bacheh.Anahid has already made some explanations for her system.

Finally, a bottle of wine prize to whoever comes up with the best 12 word Persian sentence with one dot in the first word, two in the second word...The sentence would be judged on gramatical correctness, level of sense it makes, and of course "beauty."

 


vildemose

Ok, Mehraban aziz. That is

by vildemose on

Ok, Mehraban aziz. That is how I got several of mine right last night but I was not certain.  Thanks.  Again, Congrats for the job well-done.


Mehrban

Vildemose jaan :)

by Mehrban on

I am going to leave the unveiling to the Architect of the puzzle, Ari.

But if you re-read his last sentence to you about month of Tiir, the answer is there. 


vildemose

Well done Mehraban. I came

by vildemose on

Well done Mehraban. I came up with some of it last night too but not all. But I still don't understand the process you used to accuately unravel the puzzle? can you explain?


Souri

Can someone explain it to me?

by Souri on

I didn't get the puzzle at all :-(


Anahid Hojjati

Great job Mehrban.

by Anahid Hojjati on

And thanks Ari for the blog.


Ari Siletz

Four Wheel Award, Mehrban!

by Ari Siletz on

For genius grade willingness to drive off travelled roads. 12/12 points!


Mehrban

;-)

by Mehrban on


kamaan: Farvardin

 boz:  Ordibehesht 

 taj:  Khordaad

 bacheh: Tiir 

Khosh mazeh:  Mordaad 

cheshm: Shahrivar 

چوپان:  Mehr

shamshir:    Abaan 

pashiman: Azar   

Pichideh:  Day 

Pishtaz:  Bahman 

poshtiban:   Esfand


Ari Siletz

Vildemose, bacheh is Tir

by Ari Siletz on

Tir being the fourth month has that number in common with a property of the word "bacheh" spelled in the Persian alphablet.


vildemose

 Does Sharivar correspond

by vildemose on

 Does Shahrivar correspond to Bacheh???


Ari Siletz

Anahid the extra "T"

by Ari Siletz on

Does your system line up choopan with Mehr?  Mehrban's answer is "correct" on that account. The extra "T" in  moteradef makes it two months older. Moradef was born in Farvardin. Moteradef was born in Khordad.


Anahid Hojjati

خوشمزه، = Khordaad

Anahid Hojjati


پشیمان  Tiir 

 تاج، = Mordad 

پیچیده،= shahrivar

and so on

Hint is in your last comment when you wrote:"The hint that the word was born two months later than moradef can help you crack the month code. "


Ari Siletz

All-Iranians

by Ari Siletz on

Agree with you: moteradef is the more common usage. However by itself it contains no hints as to the puzzle solution. The hint that the word was born two months later than moradef can help you crack the month code. 


All-Iranians

Dear Ari

by All-Iranians on

thank you for your explanations. One should note that Dehkhoda refers to Moradef very shortly and describes Motoradef much more strongly. Wikipedia does not have any page on Moradef but gives you a good article on Motoradef. All in all it seems that Motoradef is a more popular term.

And what about this one:

Sagittarius (Azar) looks like Sword = Shamshir


Anahid Hojjati

thanks Ari for the hint

by Anahid Hojjati on

Big help to know that I should stay with Farsi for figuring this one out.


Ari Siletz

Mehrban 1 point so far, choopan = Mehr

by Ari Siletz on

There are, of course no wrong answers. Your one point goes only for correspondance with Ostad Noktehbin's list. This list distinguishes iteself only in that the word order has the simplest self contained explanantion. Why did you pick Choopan for Mehr? Also Curious about Khordad for pashiman.

Souri, poetic one about Gemni and Poshtibaan. Were you thinking siblibgs, married people...? 

Anahid, better to stay with Farsi. A hint.

A big hint can be credited to the point all-Iranians' noticed: Moradef and moteradef mean the same thing according to Dehkhoda. The difference is that Moteradef was born two months after moradef,

- کلمات مرادف یا مترادف ؛ کلماتی که در معنی و مفهوم یکی باشند یا مفهوم آنها بسیار به هم نزدیک باشد مانند کلک و قلم و خامه 


Anahid Hojjati

Wow, IC friends are so good in this

by Anahid Hojjati on

 Since Ari put the symbols up regarding Aries,,etc, I thought Farvardin is

چوپان

since sign for Farvardin is ram. So there are couple ways of looking at this. One way is to go with Farsi names like

کمان  Tiir 

and another way is to get the MOTORADEF using the signs for each month.  Maybe that is why Ari asks at the bottom:

آیا گمانی از خود دارید که ترتیب دیگری را پیشنهاد دهد؟ 

 


Souri

This is what i think, so far :)

by Souri on

خوشمزه،
پشیمان،= Taurus
تاج،= Libra 
پیچیده= Capricorn (and this is soooo true :))،
بُز،= Aries


چشم،= Cancer

شمشیر= pisces،
 کمان،= Sagittarius
پشتیبان = Gemini

 بچه،= Leo
چوپان،
پیشتاز،= Scorpio 


All-Iranians

شمشیر

All-Iranians


Sagittarius looks like Sword (Shamshir)

"Sagittarius is totally unaware of the effect when his direct honesty compels him to speak. ..... and go charging through the streets, waving a sword and defending causes". Source //www.cyberspacei.com/englishwiz/library/names/zodiac/sagittarius.htm

PS: Dear Ari

Please note that MORADEF is wrong; MOTORADEF is correct.

 


Mehrban

My interpretation :)

by Mehrban on

پیشتاز  Farvardin

خوشمزه، Ordibehesht 

پشیمان  Khordaad

کمان  Tiir 

شمشیر  Mordaad 

تاج  Shahrivar 

چوپان  Mehr 

بُز    Abaan 

بچه  Azar   (Kid :) 

پشتیبان  Day 

پیچیده  Bahman 

 چشم   Esfand


Mehrban

***

by Mehrban on

Farvardiin ... Pishtaaz


Anahid Hojjati

Mehrban, Finglish it

by Anahid Hojjati on

I cannot see Farsi fonts now. Thanks.


Mehrban

Anahid

by Mehrban on

پیشتاز  farvardin

 


Anahid Hojjati

آری , آیا چوپان مرادف فروردین است ؟

Anahid Hojjati


If you give me this pointer, then I can proceed.