Anonymouse

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Hi! Azadeh,

    I meant a compliment! Both guys care their spouses' opinions very much......one guy invited me to meet his whole family......the Peruvian wife cooked Persian rice with saffron.....

  ............it is a loving family!

   I have to say I only encountered 5 Iranians in real life........when I turn off my computer and leave IC, I see absolutely no Iranians, not even the Iranians' shadows!

   Last Sunday, (May 30), I went to Shajarian concert and ran into an army of Iranians.......but I did not dare to ask if they feel that all Iranians guys are chauvinists! LOL! I asked the lady sitting next to me the names of Persian instruments! .......

Yolanda

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Hi! Azadeh,

       You said there are only 10 non-Chauvinistic Iranian men......I have to add 2 on the list. I worked in a company with 3 Iranian married guys.....one guy is an accountant, he worked on the 2nd floor.....I did not see him very often......the other 2 guys, I saw them pretty much every day.....we had a lot of conversations...one guy's wife is Mexican, the other guy's wife Peruvian. Be very honest with you....I did not get the impression they are chauvinists....it seems to me that the wives are calling the shots! :O) Both of them are very hard-working, they are willing to give their lives for their families! I never forget that!

Dear MM

You are absolutely right, but only in one sense: that among the 35 + million Iranian men (+ being the # of men in Diaspora added to the male population of Iran), there are 10 men who are not male chauvinists. Now do you think that sociologically speaking the word WRONG applies to the use of the word ALL here? I think not. The number 10 in comparison to number 35+ millions is so negligible that one can speak of ALL both logically and sociologically here! 

Please note that, at least for me, the use of the term "ALL" is rather strategical: It pushes men to go through self-examination (after a long period of resistance) and shows the how of this resistance (for instance refusing to understand the meaning of my last cartoon or that of this blog, and instead concentrating on the word ALL! :-))

BTW, I doubt that we can even find 10 non-chauvinistic Iranian men (but I might be wrong.) So, if you know of one, please introduce him to me and I shall write a best-selling book about him and he will have all the profits from its sale! :-)  

Cheers,

Azadeh

It depends what your definition of the word "WRONG" is, is!

Everything is sacred.

Dears.

In my studies, we were told that once you have such a diversity of characters (inside or outside XXXX), if you use NEVER, ALWAY (an absolute) to describe a behavior, your description is by definition WRONG.  Sorry to disappoint you.

Azadeh jaan that is a funny statement!

statements by Iranian male commenters about Iranian men being lazy, backward,  sexists and the cause of Iran's backwardness without ever receiving any objection. 

That's true!  Perhaps in the same way a black comedian can use the N word but if a white comedian uses it they'll take down their underwear!

I don't know why the men are not responding, perhaps the issue was discussed already.  I know they are reading and I don't put too much weight in many people's responses or lack thereof.

Perhaps another reason is that women can ridicule a male's point of view and men can ridule women's point of view, in a comedic setting.  I actually love the men women jokes and think both men and women comedians have enough material of their own and no matter how much they talk there is always new funny material!

Everything is sacred.

Dear Esther,

The 4th paragraph in your comment brought up a point to my attention.

Don't you find it interesting, or rather sadly revealing, that the same male chauvinists in Diaspora who, in my cartoon blog, were resorting to all kinds of desperate tactics NOT TO BE CONSIDERED male chauvinists, are now as silent as the dead? :-)

This confirms my conviction that their disagreement was purely emotional - their selfish ego was wounded, because I was including the men in Diaspora in my "ALL Iranian men" statement.  This blog emphasizes the men in Iran, which makes these insecure men feel that they are not being the main targets. If they were rational individuals, they would have known that Anonymouse's following statement actually includes them as much as my statement did:

"Racism runs deep in America and it even affects newcomers and immigrants like us. Same with sexism in Iran and it’s not easy to overcome it.

Rational people pay attention to the content of a statement. Emotional people (or rather superficial and spoiled ones) look at its form and prefer to be treated like children: wrap your statement in a candy, do it in a rather indirect way and don't use the word ALL even if it is clearly implicit in your statement, then I'll shut up!

Another reason seems to be that the blog is written by a man. More than a dozen of times I've read, on this website, statements by Iranian male commenters about Iranian men being lazy, backward,  sexists and the cause of Iran's backwardness without ever receiving any objection.

Sad but true!

Azadeh

Dear Anonymouse & Anahid

Sorry, I think I didn't express myself very clearly.  I wasn't trying to disagree with Anonymouse's comparison, or to suggest that the situation of women in Iran is any better (or worse) than the situation of blacks in the segregated South.

First, since Anonymouse said, "Please read Shadi Sadr's article first," I wanted to acknowledge that I can't, and the English summaries I found were very bad, so please forgive me.

Second, just because I can't read Shadi Sadr's article doesn't mean I don't know the situation of women in Iran is bad (and thank you for your examples of how bad).

Third, I was remembering Azadeh's blog here.  If I was disagreeing with anything, it was with the idea that the problem is limited to "men in Iran".  As Azadeh argued, we should also consider how we may be implicated.  As Anonymouse said, segregation may be outlawed, but "Racism runs deep in America and it even affects newcomers and immigrants like us. Same with sexism in Iran and it’s not easy to overcome it."

Really, I very much agree with everything else!  But I will try to express my support more clearly in future.

Here's a photo album of morality police

//www.flickr.com/photos/11441115@N06/with/1465518423/

click on the slide show to see more.

And some here

//www.payvand.com/news/08/jun/1148.html

Everything is sacred.

Yolanda you are asking tough questions!

- Rafsanjani doesn't have a beard because he can't grow one, he has a medical condition.  His nick name is koose (shark) because he can't grow a beard like a shark.  But if you look closely he does have some hair growing out of his face and chin here and there.

- Men are required to wear jackets (suits) in public or semi-public work places because they are not allowed to wear short sleeve and wearing long sleeves shirts is considered not manly enough.  You can see some men wear long sleeve shirts but those usually don't have the better jobs and can be dismissed easily.  So many wear jackets just to show they're worthy!

- Many high school boys are also not allowed to wear short sleeves.

But it is always easier for boys and men to wear short sleevs when not in school or work, which they always do.  Women on the other hand not only have to wear their veil and headscarves they have to be watchful of the morality policy which at this time of year and start of the hot weather clamp down because they know it is hot and naturally women don't dress as if it is winter. 

Everything is sacred.

....

Thank you for all your comments. They are eye-opening! So if you don't have beard, you can't get a government job! I notice that everyone (AN, Khamenei, Mousavi, Koroubi) has beard except Rafsanjani. I wonder why he got exemption! Does he have a condition that he can't grow beard?

 Why do they need a jacket? Any religious or Islamic significance?  

Deasr Esther:Anonymouse 's argument about treatment of women

Some supporting evidences regarding why treatment of women in Iran is similar to treatment of blacks in United States' south few decades ago:

1. Segreation is present in both cases and in both cases, women or blacks end up(in case of blacks ended up) with worse option. Example, when my coed high school became single sex in 1980 in Tehran, original school with good facilities was assigned to boys.  Girls got a middle school with much worse building and facilties. We girls objected and our classmates; boys who were nice and enlighted, voted themselves out of good school in middle of the year. Next year, IRI education people closed girls' school.

2. At work, men have more opportunities for adavncement in Iran just whites had more opportunities for advancemnt few decades ago in United States.

3. United States' marriage laws reinforced racism just like Iran's marriage laws is in line with sexist policies of IRI. Now in Iran, Iranian men are free to marry foreign women and their wives even become Iranian citizen by virtue of being married to Iranian men. However, marriage between Iranian women and foreign men is not looked upon favorably.  A child who has Iranian mother and foreign father is not considered Iranian and can not have Iranian passport .

There are other supporting evidences but Dear Esther, I suggest that since you are a frequent reader of IC and especially a commentator, it might be good to familiarize yourself more with situation in Iran.

Here's a "Bad Hijabs Will Not Be Served" sign

//www.flickr.com/photos/paulk/2062797698/

The translation is also under the picture and there are million(s) of these signs around Iran. 

Everything is sacred.

Chador is a training ground of shame

Anony-Joon:

The fact that "They are 12 - 13 year old school girls, not women." makes their black chador almost tragic. What 12 or 13 would choose to wear such an ugly black cover unless they were forced (or brainwashed). What does this teach them abouttheir bodies, their very existence?

Men in Iran don't have to conform to such standards beyond their half-beard which has become global fashion. Black chadors on the other hand, express nothing but oppression; they are not a trend or a feminine idea. They are not a cultural expression beyond the crafted message (by religious men who have also hijacked the state) that a women's body is a thing of shame and men cannot be expected to control themselves when they see a woman (or a girl!).

This does nothing less than give license to Iranian male libido. Sex is commonly used for power and we know how power hungry this regime is. Next step? Polygamy! Sigheh!

Chador is a training ground of shame.

Esther I compared Iranian men to White men in the "South".

Do you think that is a wrong comparison?  In other places such as Military racism and segregation existed which means racism went beyond the South but in my comparison I left the rest of America out.

So I'm comparing the White Only signs to "Bad Hijabs will not be served" signs.  There are plenty of these signs all over Iran and not just a specific geographic area and I may search for them here in i.com and provide a link.

What kind of "support" is needed for this comparison?  Of course in my opinion the racism and segregation in the south and the way blacks were treated and lynched or killed for no good reason is worse than how women are treated in Iran.  At least that is how I think because it also covered both black men and women.

Everything is sacred.

Everyone's a little bit chauvinist?

As we know, I can't read Farsi and I have never been to Iran, so I won't comment on Shadi Sadr's comments on chauvinism in Iran.  However, if you want to compare it to racism in America, I will suggest some support for your argument (as well as those of Azadeh and others who argue that the problem is *not* limited to men in Iran, or men, or Iran).

Anahid jaan Islamic Republic always fools itself & no one else!

This half beard thing for men is actually a pre-requisite of employment.  If you're a man and shave every day and work in a public or semi-public organization you'll probably get fired!

So men shave once or twice a week and to be fair in this heat of summer when calls of punishments for "bad" hijab is heard everywhere men are also required to keep on a jacket in these public or semi-public places!

People, women in particular, hallak mishan (heat exhaustion) in a work day going to work and back home.

Thank you for your comment.  

Everything is sacred.

Dear Anonymouse, what an excellent blog you have written

Dear Anonymouse, I really enjoyed reading your blog.  You discuss how fight for women's rights in Iran is similar to the fight that happened in United States when Whites Only signs were up and I totally agree with this. Thanks for bringing examples of how media in Iran interviews people to prove women have many rights in Iran. For those of us who have not had as much knowledge about what happens on Iranian TV, these are all good information.

And we define ...

Here is some basic defintions, which could be helpful to the readers.

Patriarchy (Pedar-Saalaari) is a social system in which the father or eldest male is head of the household and has authority over women and children. Patriarchy includes other concepts such as Male Chauvinism, Phallocracy, and Misogyny.

Male chauvinism (Mard-Saalaari) is a term used to describe the belief ,or display of the attitude, that women are inferior to men, that it is ok to speak to women as inferiors or treat them negatively based solely upon their gender.

Phallocentrism or Phallocracy (Ehlil-Saalaari) has more to do with language and symbolic meanings. It is a world-view which sees the penis (symbolic and otherwise) as the defining centre of meaning. In other words : there is a central, stable meaning to things; that meaning is defined largely by men who associate their power to name and define and control reality with their masculinity. An example of phallocratic expression often used on this website, by both males and females, is “having balls” when speaking of “being brave!”

As women do not have balls, the use of this expression implies that women cannot be bold or brave (or that if we are, it is because we are acting like men.) So, although I could use "ovaries" as a counter to "balls, I usually say that someone has "guts." After all, brave  women don’t think having balls is necessary or desirable.

Misogyny (Zan-Setizi) is hatred or contempt of women and girls (there is also an undercurrent of unconscious fear.)  Misogyny is a negative attitude towards women as a group, so it does not need to fully determine a misogynist's attitude towards each individual woman. The fact that someone holds misogynist views does not prevent him or her from having positive relationships with some women. An example of a misogynistic term frequently used on this site, , by both males and females, is ”Khaleh-Zanak.” Is it that hard to use the word “Shaaye’e Saaz?”

Azadeh 

They are 12 - 13 year old school girls, not women.

While not all school girls go to school with those "uniforms" quite a bit are forced to do it especially in school outings like this one.  Schools take their students on road trips to museums and sometimes other cities like Mashad or Isfahan.

They try to steal the smartest kids and bribe them when they show more religious zeal.  Of course it doesn't always work and parents recognize it and try to prevent it.  Some parents on the other hand encourage them more and then they'll end up totally screwed up.

Thank you all for your comments. 

Everything is sacred.

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It is right that:

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"Looking good is not a sin."

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thank you! 

let feminists define chauvinists

Anonymouse,

"Bottom line in my opinion we can’t let chauvinists define feminists but we can let feminists define chauvinists."

That's the reality, sadly. The syntax of your sentence shows the simple truth, that oppressors love to define, control, and devalue those they oppress. History is full of examples.  The regime in Iran is a great example.

Child labor was once thought to be sensible, So was a 16 hour work day. Education for the masses and for women was once thought to threaten the stablity of society.  Naturally most of the people opined such thoughts (19th century) were born in the dominant strata of society and well, they were male.

Fortunately, civilization advances. Iranian women are smart, tough and they won't accept second class citizenship forever,. Their men will support their assertions of equality. That's when gender chauvinism will end. The fact that we are talking about it here means the death rattle is near.

(BTW, NO ONE not even a army of torturers could convince me that  the women in your photo would ever choose to dress like a flock of crows. Looking good is not a sin.)

A needed article

It was about time, Anonymouse jan. Thank you.

Azadeh

4 a second I thought u said It really makes me "sick"! (think:-)

Everything is sacred.

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Thank you for the very unique, bold, and thought-provoking article! It really makes me think! 

Thank you!