Misc

Ok Souri jaan

vali ghahr nakon!

#kind regards, despite our disagreements.

JJ jan, thank you!

Absolutely.

Kharmagas, you don't know what you say

Please watch for you don't fall as someone who hit on the N'al and the Mikh!

You don't respect me and this is obvious. This is the second time you label me with  unfounded accusation. That is okay! But don't expect respect and interest from me, after what you wrote!

RE: Flagging

Yeah, as I said I do not flag, but it obviuosly happens... 

Agree that without ALL the contents, the substance is lost.

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IRAN FIRST

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Re: Agent - in this case - does not have to

What happened is that IC got noticed by people on  Iran Military Forum.They decided to get their words in. That is all. Not a surprise. I don't agree with anything they say. They are here because IC has credibility that IMF does not.

PS,

There is nothing keeping us from going there an posting. I thought about it but decided why bother given them credibility? So I did not: why bother.

Jaleh jan, I agree in part ..

That the West did TRY (and is trying) to use Mousavi and the youth frustration in Iran to pull a Victor Yushchenko out of him, and FAILED ... It is important why it failed.  The west failed because the movement in Iran is an authentic legitimate movement with legitimate grievances and aspirations.  Most importantly, Mousavi has been disciplined, genuine and alert enough not to be used, and his backers do trust and respect him and Karrubi for who they are and their loyalty to the original aims of the Revolution.  Now the situation is not static by any means. Stifling all voices of dissent and rounding up all opposition figures, I believe will create the void that the West can happily oblige to fill in with its velvet puppets.

Souri jaan

Haalaa digeeh ghahr nakon, I hope your last comment to me doesn't mean that you are no longer a fan of my comments! :)

#kind regards, despite our disagreements

Flagging

Please lets not flag anyone's posts. We are big enough to take a few insults. Removing posts no matter how obnoxious restricts freedom of speech. Please whatever your position on issues lets keep the dialog going and not remove posts. When people talk that is good and promotes understanding or at least is supposed to do it.

Agent - in this case - does not have to

be an organized entity, but a "school of thought".

I understand what you're saying and can't say I disagree with you, but you must agree that the presence and postings by certain loyalists have increased big time.

Trouble is that they do not afford the same freedom they enjoy here to the people and the country they so fearesly claim to love!!

I do not flag any posts, but I've seen a lot of name calling, and been called names here that go beyond "agent" by these freedom loving individual "thinkers". 

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IRAN FIRST

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True, but was the word "bad looser" also insulitng?

JJ, you deleted my post to Jaleho while there was nothing offensive in it. Or..was it?

Any way, as Kharmagas's comment to me is based on that now-deleted post, I just repeat the second part (which is said that fit me the best):

Jaleho, since a few months all you are doing here is just insulting and bad mouthing people and posting the non substantial contents. 

No one's an agent here

Cost-of-Progress, there's no lobby here. This a discussion, debate, among ourselves. Jaleh, you, Sargord, and all the others who post comments here are the agents of nobody. They represent individuals, not groups or governments.

If we reduce our opponents to agents for this or that, what we are really doing is dismissing the fact that there people who think differently than we do, and that yes, it is possible for ordinary people to like Ahmadinejad or Khamenei.

So, let's have a discussion based on the other person's actual beliefs rather than accuse them of being agents. Or else, you and I or anybody could be accused of being agents too. And when that happens we'll get nowhere. We'll be left with name-calling and no understanding.

Oh, Kharmagas

It's a while that  I gave up  flagging your gang's vulgar posts.

Looking at what is happening to your image now (all of you) I believe it would be a waste of time for me and JJ to take care of those idiocies that  you are saying to others.

Oh, it's obvious VPK

that the Islamic lobby has stepped up presence here BIG TIME!

I like it though; although I ignore most of them, I do read some specially the ones claiming the unrelenting support that Iranians have for the murderous mullahs and their circle of assasins. 

It's funny and entertaining....

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IRAN FIRST

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It's not that complicated Jahanshah

Some people just can't give it up!

She always supported the regime before the elections. Now she doesn't want to loose  face.

This is very classic. Don't you remember the same cliché after the Islamic revolution?

Before the event, some Shahi people, were always laughing and mocking the protesters, saying that "Shah will never go"!

And even after the defeat of Shah, they continued to say: He will be back before the year's end !

And then, they never gave up!

Some of them are still hoping, so much that they tend to forget that the Shah is dead now:) They continue posting their dead hopes here and there in this site and outside.!  

Jaleho

Sorry to disappoint you. I'm just not that clever- I guess. The first time I viewed it, I really didn't get it.

I admit, after taking up the suggestion of one of the commenters here, I visited the video poster's YouTube channel, and it made more sense.

I think I'm more politically mainstream than you take me for. 

Obama, thanks for your service and your family's service. It sounds like we have some things in common. My great uncle was one of the few Colonels in Reza Shah's army. But the family history is made up primarily of governmental officials, with some serving at the ministerial level and another in the Majis (pre-1941).

I don't know what you mean by "beating my chest". By that if you mean I'm not subversive, or that I am critical of anti-Iran cheerleading, well yes, if that offends you, I suggest you simply ignore my comments and blog posts.

IRI defenders

I think what is happening is the IRI defenders are seeing the writing on th wall. They are afraid and worried. Being unable to believe the truth they get angry. So they lash out at others. The result will not change. The IRI is on its way out. 

NO, NO Souri!

I don't agree with many of Jaleh's views but I definitely respect her, I also know that many green posters of this site respect Jaleh despite having had many heated debates with her. All that you attribute to her in your second paragraph fit you best in this site.

Having said all that, I think JJ has a point, ...., sometimes Jaleh is too harsh on the greens, .... just as sometimes greens are too harsh with Jaleh...., it has been a charged environment and to various degrees we all have been impacted by it.

##BTW, go ahead and flag this comment!

Discussion

Jaleh, you believe Ahmadinejad received more votes than his opponents. Fine. I don't, and a lot of other people don't. So it's a disputed issue, to say the least.

But let's look at what's not in dispute: Hundreds put in jail since the election for criticizing the government or disputing the results of the election. Dozens of moderates arrested, dragged into court in pajamas and humiliated in show trials AND given long prison terms. Dozens of protesters killed on the streets and in Kahrizak. More moderate newspapers shut down. Speeches by senior officials and religious leaders declaring that those who question velayate faghih are mohareb and should be hanged.

How are Mousavi, Karroubi, Khatami and other critics worse than those who have committed all of the above and more?

These are just some of the ugly facts since the election. Nevermind before.

My own political beliefs are very different than those like Mousavi who believe in Khomeini, velayate faghih, and the Islamic Republic's constitution. I would like to see a secular democracy and nothing less. But I recognize that Mousavi and other moderates are not as crazy and brutish as those who are currently in power. And I admire their courage to speak their mind in the face of so much pressure.

I would like to have a serious discussion on why you are defending this regime. I would like to understand.

Still waiting Jaleh

Over a month ago I asked Jaleho to point out any good things IRR has done. She failed to respond. I am still waiting ...

JJ, I'll try to repeat

what I have repeated here ad nauseam later, I got to go now. But please, you should know by now that I DO have tremendous sympathy and RESPECT for Iranian youth in the street, in particular the shirzans there. I hate the fact that you don't have an equal respect for the 5 times the population which comes from the other side and you guys (actually Ari's cartoon) show them as " gaavs" who are forced to go to the street! That I consider a pathetic denial of realities.

Talk later.

Fouzul jan, not all fouzuls

Have the clever way YOU have with pen! Sorry for the shortcomings.

I am sure you have read enough of my bickering here to know that I don't even consider Mousavi is a west's agent by his own choice (Makhmalbaaf was weak enough to surrender and be played with I believe!). All I have repeated is that the west DID use Mousavi and the youth frustration in Iran to pull a Victor Yushchenko out of him, and a (FAILED) velvet revolution a la Orange one in Iran.

I'll be back at night, if you responded and I didn't reply, it is because I am heading out. Thanks.

No answers?

Jaleh, you know very well what I meant. You have no sympathy for Mousavi or anyone in the Green Movement, down to the protester in the street. And even though you say Mousavi has not done 1/1000th of what Saddam did for the west, you clearly believe that Khamenei and his gang are 1000 times better for Iranians.

I just want understand why.

Sorry Jaleh Khanoum ;)

I just read your response to JJ.  My sincere apologies for fouzuli ;)  

Jaleh khanoum

I haven't watched the video and just read the comments and got the gist of it!  I am aware of your support for Ahmadi-Nedjad and respect your views.  But you don't really believe Mousavi's fate - no matter how much you disagree with him - should be execution?  Do you?!!! And even if you do not object to the execution of opposition leaders, what purpose do you think it would achieve that would serve Iran?

Cool Down JJ, did you read

my last sentence?!

I think Sargord for whom I explained the "ending of that video" probably got what I meant! I said Mousavi or Rahnavard, although SERVED the western interest for a short period, they clearly did not even serve 1/1000 of how Saddam served the west. That means clearly they will live their retirement life happily ever after!, or that is another one of those careless "predictions" of mine :-)

I tried to show how CLEAR the video is.

I don't understand either

"Jaleho" is an academic?!!!

I don't understand

Jaleh, you amaze me. You find the ending this video clever? You believe it would be fitting, even amusing, for Mousavi to hang the same way Saddam did? Because he is a US agent? Because he is repeating his claim about election fraud? Even if there was no election fraud, why is it a crime to claim it?

You amaze me because you are an academic, a woman and live in the west. As an academic I expected that you would have the insight to at least see both sides of the issue. But you consistently side with those who have absolute control over the country, commit horrendous crimes on citizens, and demand total silence and obedience.

As a woman I expected that you would have serious reservations, if not disgust, towards a government that officially regards you less than a human being and more as sexual object that must to be covered from head to toe. Should I list the things woman are discriminated against in the Islamic Republic? I think you are quite aware of them.

And as person who lives in the west and appreciates its freedoms and opportunities, so much that you have chosen to live there instead of in Iran, you support no effort to see the same freedoms and opportunities in Iran.

What is it about the Islamic Republic and its rulers that makes you, and those like you, see them as saviors of Iran (or at least less evil) compared to those who oppose them? I honestly don't understand.

marg bar this and marg bar that!

"Death to ALL the paid agents and SUPPORTERS of the illegitimate Islamic government"!  Is this a call to genocide or what ?!!!!!!  I thank god every day that some people don't have a chance in hell getting their hands on power lol

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مرگ بر خامنه اي منفور ترين چهره اين حكومت

مرگ بر تمامي طرفداران و مزدوران حكومت نامشروع اسلامي

Sargord, I found it weird that

of all the people you found this video weird! I expect it from typical Iranian.comer their reaction, but not from you!

When everyone was repeating "election fraud" like a parrot who is fed  certain lines, and one of the lines was "Ahmadinejad camp claimined victory TOO EARLY." I kept on asking everyone why aren't then they furious at Mousavi camp announcing victory even BEFORE Ahmadinejad?(as this clip clearly shows long after the fact!) they'd jump on another "fed line," either the not-professionally-circulated-photo-shop letter that supposedly Khamenei had asked the interior ministry to cheat and announce Ahmadinjead as the winner (yeah, right, they couldn't have done it more discreetly!) or the "flawed statistical analysis."When you argued that those arguments are a bag of crap if you knew anything about statistical analysis, they'd repeat what this video repeats in a funny way actually:" Mousavi is a Turk, and Karroubi is a Lor" so they should have won all of Azarbaijan and Lorestan. When you showed them that Mousavi actually DID win a good portion of Azarbaijan that made sense, they still wanted to generalize the type of "Carter winning Georgia argument" to politics of Iran with no modifications.

This video brings out those lines of propaganda perfectly well indeed.

BUT, considering your very own fantastic blog about AJAX2 (The west's attempt at a soft power coup), I was hoping YOU would find the ending of the video quite clever actually! Remember how Saddam has been America's main man during Iran-Iraq war, he was visited by Rumsfeld and brought up high (as Dr. Abbasi in you video was describing exactly how their man is first taken up to the sky before he's crushed to the ground when his useful time is finished). The end of Saddam Hussein when his useful service to the west expired and he in fact failed to beat the Islamic revolution as he was supposed to quickly beat the weak and chaotic Iran right after the revolution...was indeed quite graphic and dramatic.

Mousavi or Rahnavard clearly didn't even do 1/1000 of that service!!