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Neda for Freedom

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06/23/2009 - 13:42
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anonymous fish

ah, I'm getting a little closer to understanding

by anonymous fish on

If you're talking about a "word" which has two meanings, the correct term is homonym.  Double entrendre generally refers to a saying, not a specific word.  But anyway, Farah is right.  Too much is being made of a word here or there.


Farah Rusta

Neda is not ambigious!

by Farah Rusta on

Ms Aazad, it is ridiculous that we should debate the meaning of a word, Neda, simply because you have used it wrongly both in context as well as in semantics.

Neda has no double or ambigious meaning, period. Therefore, whether you meant double entendre or as you claim, double entente you were worng in principle let alone in usage. Neda has only one (kind of) meaning in Persian which is: seda, avaa, baang, faryaad

http://www.loghatnaameh.com/dehkhodasearchresult-f...

Double meaning is in the use of such words (in Persian) as: Shir which can mean both Lion as well as Milk (and water tap/valve). Similarly in English such words as: Light which has two totally different meanings: not dark and not heavy.

Sorry that I had to correct you on both accounts but I am sure you will accept it with grace.

 

FR


anonymous fish

Farah

by anonymous fish on

Maybe you can help me out here.  How is Azadeh using the word double entente differently than double entrende?  I don't really understand her answer.  What does she think double entrende means?

There is no use pointing out that double entendre does not exist in French and that the proper [French] phrase for a double meaning, one of them usually indelicate, is double entente. - B. & C. Evans, A Dictionary of Contemporary American Usage

To everything I've ever understood of the history of the term, they are the same thing with the exception of the true definition of the word "entente" which is of a political nature.

Regardless, I think the term is incorrect as used... either one of them.

I agree with Roxie. She is a symbol, not an icon.  This would suggest that she is the only victim.  Perhaps she is the most tragic or the most innocent or the most symbolic of the protest but hardly an icon.  There will be many more tragic deaths in this fight for freedom.  Plus, it's just a little tacky looking.


Azadeh Azad

Anonymous Fish

by Azadeh Azad on

Rusta has given the correct meaning of the word "Double-entendre," while  I have given the correct meaning of the word "dounble-entente" that I consciously used. Please read both definitions; you will understand the difference. I used the word "double-entente" in order to convey both "double meaning" and "ambiguity" for the readers of curious mind.

Also, although "Entente" does mean "agreement between countries" in political linguo,  "double-entente" is a totally different expression with a completely different meaning.

Hope these clarifications helped.

Azadeh

Ps. the picture is definitely that of Neda.


rosie is roxy is roshan

No,the problem in my view is not that it's disrespectful

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

at all. Thevproblem is it's too respectful.

It's reverential.

Iran has been plagued by a childish, oppressive and self-destructive yearning to follow larger than life archetypal figures for far too long.

The last thing Iranians need is to replace the archetypal image of the all-seeing all-knowing Eternal Father gigantor size posters of Khomeini with likenesses of the new Blessed Virgin towering over the populace like an outsize Statue of Liberty. It's just the flip side of the same coin.

She was a girl who got shot on the sidewalk.She should be grieved not beatified  She is a symbol but not an icon. There's a difference. Icons are revered above humans.

That's what Iranians perhaps more than many peoples need to strive to overcome...not perpetuate.

It's dangerous.

IMHO


anonymous fish

wait, now I need a clarification

by anonymous fish on

as to your use of the word "entente" versus "entendre".  What exactly are you suggesting when you say that using entente is more correct?  Maybe I'm missing what it is you ARE trying to say.  What do you think double-entendre means if not "double meaning"?

Regarding the two words, Fowler says attempting to "correct" it (in English) to double entente suggests more an ignorance of English than a knowledge of French.

Entente is a political term referring to an agreement between two countries.

If I'm mistaking your intention, sorry, but I'm thoroughly confused now.


Azadeh Azad

Double-entente is the right word here

by Azadeh Azad on

I mean *double-entente," from Fr., a double meaning, ambiguity - and NOT "double-entendre," which has a different meaning.

Furthermore, Art is subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion about it.

Azadeh


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This is very DISRESPECTFUL.

by behnaaz (not verified) on

This is very DISRESPECTFUL. I dont call this peace of crap " ART " oR " Design". What the hell were you thinking? Why you people sho no respect for an innocent woman who lost her life for you all? Why whould you all dont let her soul RIP? YES i am very very upset about what happened to her and i think what you guys are doing with making bunch of crap as a memorial of neda are just acting like 6 years old who has no idea how to have respect for such a big woman "NEDA". and makes bunch of cappy crafts of her face. PLRASE REMOVE THIS DISRESPECTFUL IMAGE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.


Farah Rusta

Great idea

by Farah Rusta on

Mr or Ms Bram

Your idea of naming a university after Neda is by far the best suggestion. befitting her status as a student of philosophy that she was.

Hope to see it happen one day. 

FR


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Neda University

by bram (not verified) on

Neda University not Beheshti University.

Please ask all Iranians to change Beheshti University to Neda University. Beheshti is the symbol of the dictatorial Islamic Republic and he was one of the founders of this regime which has made life of millions of Iranians over last 30 years hell.

Neda is symbol of millons who are fighting to take our country back from the Islamists. A new era has begun and it is time to demonstrate it. Neda and thousands of brave Iranians who sacrificed their lives for our freedom our watching us. Lets make the change.

Please promote the idea.

Neda university not Beheshti University.

Regards


Iranyvaliazad

Must-mali

by Iranyvaliazad on

moslem clerics are in process of "must-mali" the murder of neda in the hands of moslem thugs.  I read the article and first I wondered who would believe such a stupid commen?!  Then I realized that the comment is written by truely an ignorant person for sake of people who are intellectually in same level as the writer and do believe such crap beside other craps like visiting invisible creatures in wells, writing notes to invisible creatures and seeing someone face on the moon, to give a small example.

 

خبرگزاری فارس گزارش داد: مأموران نيروي انتظامي به سرنخ‌هايي درباره عامل اين تيراندازي دست يافته‌اند.

فارس با اشاره به سرنخ‌هايي كه از عامل تيراندازي، نوع اسلحه و گلوله و
چگونگي شليك به‌دست آمده، افزود: با تحقيقات به عمل آمده از طريق
دوربين‌هاي حاضر در صحنه، اظهارات شهود، بررسي محل حادثه، شناسايي و
بازجويي از افراد حاضر در صحنه و گزارش پزشكي قانوني، مشخص شده است فردي
به وسيله يك اسلحه قاچاق به طرف تني چند از حاضران در خيابان كارگر شمالي
تيراندازي مي‌كند كه يكي از اين گلوله‌ها از پشت به ندا صالحي اصابت
مي‌كند.

تحقيقات نيروهاي امنيتي و انتظامي براي كشف اين ماجرا كه آيا تيراندازي به سوي ندا صالحي به صورت كور يا هدفمند بوده، ادامه دارد.

 

 

http://www.tabnak.ir/fa/pages/?cid=52854 


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I agree with the people who

by iran pahlavan (not verified) on

I agree with the people who expressed that while the art work is okay and based on good intentions. But using her dieing image is overt and inappropriate... think if she was your mother or sister would you like to see her face like that on the internet and the media?


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I love to see an Iran that

by iran_pahlavan (not verified) on

I love to see an Iran that is free.. gender equality.. secularism .. etc.
I love all that I read here from all the beautiful Iranians..
however listen to me people.. we will NEVER win over the Ahriman by throwing flowers.
WE NEED GUNS..
MEN AND WOMEN ALIKE .. THINK GUNS.. THINK BULLETS..
I am sick and tired of hearing my brothers and sisters are taking it and not giving back. tired of hearing my brothers and sisters get beaten tortured and maimed... the enemy has NO HEART.. dont you get it?
on behalf of Neda, and many other innocents that suffered, I am ready to return the favor a thousand fold.. with pleasure of course...anyone wants to join in the fun?


Farah Rusta

Azadeh khanom, it is: double-entendre!

by Farah Rusta on

And if you had a little more insight you should have known that using a Farsi word/name like Neda in an English context is not double-entendre, and even if Neda were an English name it wouldn't be a correct application of double-entendre as Neda is not an ironic, inappropriate or risque double for "voice." The correct term to use here is pun. 

Second, how many dead male Iranians can you name whose bloodied faces were used as a symbol of protest. Have you seen the dead images of Golesorkhi/Roozbeh/Sharif Vaghefi and many others ever used in the anti-Shah protests? Only their facial posters were carrried by the crowd and they were not made an iconic figure overnight. Not even the picture of Che Guevara, on his deathbed was used as a symbol of protest.  

You allegation of gender bias, in this context, is baseless.

FR

ps - And what about human rights? Why HR is not featured in your artwork? Was it not a breach of human rights - the right to assembly, that was denied to Neda?


MiNeum71

!?

by MiNeum71 on

This is becoming both ridiculous and impious.

 


rosie is roxy is roshan

You certainly have a tendency toward

by rosie is roxy is roshan on

the grandiose. I recall another time you sent in an image of someone using the exact same technique of superimposing their cherubically smiling face on the body of Superman. Andvrepeated about twenty times. I thought in a sense it's intended as a kind of joke but I felt somehow iit was creepy.vDisturbing. I still do. And this one far moreso.

Actually that's the word he used when he thanked you--disturbing. And now I know that at least on some level it wasn't intended as a joke at all.

That person was already de facto a leader. Why did it have to be intensified ?

Azarin, as someone who is a psychologist wiho professes a knowledge of Jung,do you really think it's a good idea to present images which present people as larger than life figures, and no matter how innocent looking, trigger that archetype of the ALL-powerful hero or father, or the ALL-pure young virgin?

Especially within the Iranian context. Don't youvthink Iranians have been plagued enough by this thirst for a larger than life figure to lead them childlike from Karbala to Behesht en mass? Haven't they had enough of the Father and the Virgin? Please note capital letters. Isn't that what we here should be helping to overcome?

Neda was a pretty girl who happened to be standing on the sidewalk that day. She should be mourned as a human, no more. Yes, she is a symbol, but she should be a symbol of all individual humans on an equal basis with her. Mourned for her common humanity. No more.

No more.

Because THAT is everything.


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NEDA

by sean G (not verified) on

PLEASE, stop fighting each other,I think using Neda's portrait in any shape or form will remind us how brutal and inhumane IRI is,and will give us the power to fight those who killed Neda and not eachother.....


anonymous fish

Azadeh

by anonymous fish on

First of all... LOVE your new avatar.  That is awesome!  Not sure how I feel about the tribute.  Is the woman Neda or not?  Seems to be conflicting opinions about that.  I do agree her "death" face is in poor taste.  I personally, and this is just me, believe in celebrating a person's life, not their death.  I don't think anyone needs reminding of the details of her death, simply that she died.  The work IS a loving tribute and that is what is important to remember, not that I might think it's a little tacky.  The message IS hope. 


Majid

.............

by Majid on

این اولین باری نبود که من مردن یک انسان رو دیدم ، راستش دومین بار بطور مجازی (کامپیوتر و تلویزیون) وچند بار زنده...

تفاوتی که صحنهء مرگ ندا با بقیه داشت این بود که این (بحق) شد سمبل سبُعیت، درنده خویی، خونخواری و رذالت جمهوری اسلامی و سگهای کف به دهنش که برای حفظ قدرت از هیچ کاری روگردان نیستند حتی پرپر کردن یک دختر جوان دست خالی! ولی.........

تبدیل کردن « ندا » به یک قهرمان ملی ؟

طفلک معصوم ندا شده مثل یک تکه گوشت قربونی که هر کسی برای به کرسی نشوندن عقاید خودش اون رو و عکس و ویدیو اش رو به یکطرف میکشونه!

گناه داره........

مثل تمامی شهدای این چند روزه  ندا   هم    بیگناه بود، بیدفاع بود، جوون بود و هزاران آرزو تو سرش داشت، حقّش نبود اینجوری قبل از شکفتن پَر پَر بشه، ولی..........

بزارین روحش آرامش داشته باشه.


Azadeh Azad

Marge

by Azadeh Azad on

I agree with you. My answer to both your questions is NO!

When an innocent man dies and becomes the icon of a movement, he is not being used as "a piece of meat," but when an innocent woman dies ... well, we know very well of the Iranians' double standard as reflected in the comments here.

Also, I first used the phrase "Iranian Neda for Democracy," but then changed it into "Neda for Democracy," thinking that readers were already familiar with the word *Neda*'s double entente. However, I guess I keep over-estimating some readers' insight.

We shall overcome,

Azadeh


I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek

I really wish Azadeh would comment about this

by I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek on

Especially considering the issue of gender equality is a problem in Iranian culture! I wonder, if this had been a male, would the reaction be the same? When Ahmad Batebi held up a bloody shirt of his friend, was it wrong?


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Neda Soltan-e Ghalbha

by Anonymous Neda (not verified) on

There are endless tributes to Neda from all around the world. Here are two of them:

Poem:

I finally looked at her picture, and she looked familiar somehow.
I think we have a statue of her in the harbor at New York.
Delacroix caught a glimpse of her once on a barricade in Paris.
She carried water to the cannon crews at Monmouth, and drove a chariot at Watling Street. She cut off Holophernes' head.
She will be missed, but she will be back.
She's that kind of girl.

Song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXRdYyEpgwI


hamsade ghadimi

tasteless

by hamsade ghadimi on

بى ذائقه


I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek

I agree that showing her bloody face is not good

by I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek on

I think the portraits are nice though. What a beautiful girl.


Farah Rusta

Marge

by Farah Rusta on

At least you learned a new word (LOL)

FR


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Psychological - Assasinating Velayat Kasif and His Son

by Pantea Akhavan (not verified) on

Why no one is talking about getting rid of these two bastards.
Neda and thousands others will die if these two were to remain alive.
The least we can do in call for their death. Let us make them nervous with the idea of it, even we cannot be the to pull the trigger.
Psychological warfare.


Barbra

yeah STOP SHOWING HER

by Barbra on

especially now, when we know that it is not her and that this lady on the pictures is still alive! that's silly!


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STOP SHOWING HER BLOODY

by PESARE IROONI (not verified) on

STOP SHOWING HER BLOODY FACE. YOU PEOPLE HAVE BECOME INSANE. HAVE SOME RESPECT. Í CAN'T BELIEVE HOW LOW SOME PEOPLE GO.


I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek

Is a hermaphrodite a bad?

by I Have a Crush on Alex Trebek on

What the hell are you talking about? I complained about the politicians who are using NEDA. You don't seem to mind when Reza Pahlavi did it, do you? I think what you don't realize is that for years, MALE martyrdom as paralyzed Iran and the women. Neda's memory changes that. I still don't think she's a martyr, since she wasn't even protesting, just driving through traffic and being in the wrong place, wrong time.

I did not use her image for anything. I think her death shows how obviously brutal and stupid IRI is. What do you think her death speaks to anymore than that?!

You can complain about this image here, but I think that it has a good message: out of Neda's memory, something positive can emerge. That makes me a hermaphrodite? What the hell are you saying?  


Farah Rusta

So unethical

by Farah Rusta on

I cannot expect any thing different from hermaphrodites such as Marge but for the genuine women to use Neda's bloodied image after her tragic death to advance their cause, no matter how sacred that cause may be, it fills me with horror. I even don't expect anything different from the opportunist media, this is their bloodline. But is there no sense of respect or decency left in us, ordinary people, that we should resort to a bloodied image of a freshly murdered girl to promote our cause?

 So shameful. 

FR